View Full Version : National Geographic Goes Inside Prison CSP-SAC (New Folsom)

07-04-2005, 02:31 AM
anyone seen this show with national geographic explorer? Two white guys coming fresh into it, and what they have to do. One inmate was a prison veteran and the other was there for the first time.


07-04-2005, 11:50 AM
WTF does this have to do w/CMA?!?

are you that desperate for human contact that you post about your dream vacations?

I'm sure there are all sorts of venues to post this that will get you plenty of offers to become someone's b1tch, so unless you come around and post that one of the prisoners spent 10 years practicing the same five techniques in a straight line in his cell (now where have we heard that one before?), please try to stay on the general topic of the forum which is CHINESE MARTIAL ARTS!!!

jeez, I'm getting cranky in my old age...

what the heck does all the posts by GDA, IronFist, MasterKiller, and many other have to do with cma? On the main forum hardly any topics are about cma, hell more topics are about mma or how mma is superior to cma.

Din Gao
07-04-2005, 01:57 PM
Interestingly enough there is a segment of that program where a group of inmates (Surenos I think) are practicing a set of coordinated combat movements. They stop immediately as they realized they are being watched so as not to give away any of their combat techniques. It was just interesting to see that it is not all just pure mayhem but that they train for combat, more then just lifting weights.

07-04-2005, 03:07 PM
the difference is that a) the vast majority of people who post regularly are CMA folk, who can speak about CMA topics via direct experience; b) if they post off topic, it's not the primary thing they do; in other words, they are CMAists who can and mainly do post on that topic - if they go off, it's a digression, not the primary way they post - just my personal opinion, but to me they have the right to go off topic, because they have the background to post on the main topic; you are a self-admitted non-practitioner who has all his CMA info from seconday sources, and whose threads actually make up a significant number of the off-topic ones! so, why are you even here? isn't Bullshido enough to keep you busy? c) if they aren't CMA guys, they somehow have managed to negotiate this forum without alienating other people in the way that you seem to have done - can't imagine why...

and where you get this about most topics not being CMA related is beyond me...about 1/4 are off, the rest are directly related (based on a quick perusal of the main forum pages) - if it's re: CMA relatd to MMA, well, CMA is still part of the thread;

finally, why would you bother coming back to a forum from which you've been banned? can't you take the hint? and don't you think it's only a matter of time before you go bye-bye again anyway? or will your next post be as bonetone?

ok, peace said, my last post on this topic (regardless of rebuttal) - if I keep feeding it, it'll just keep comin' back...

thats not really true. IronFisty, Merryprankster (who basically only talks about mma and nothing else), Sevenstar (who is a mod), apolywen, knifefighter, etc. all these guys that hang out on the main forum don't really train cma. and again alot of topics are about video games, news, movie clips, etc. non related. Not to mention the people who go on a thread like about tai chi rooting and make a one lined remark saying "boxers do it better" and leave without any explanation and not come back. And prison is pretty related as it is gladiator school, or the ultimate test of ones abilities to go against thugs/killers/psychos who are often armed with shanks.

07-04-2005, 03:21 PM
Interestingly enough there is a segment of that program where a group of inmates (Surenos I think) are practicing a set of coordinated combat movements. They stop immediately as they realized they are being watched so as not to give away any of their combat techniques. It was just interesting to see that it is not all just pure mayhem but that they train for combat, more then just lifting weights.

its called the 52 hand sor 52 blocks aka the matrix aka jail house rocks:

from streetgangs.com

"when fights break out youre usually stuck in a tight circle (closed quaters) because of the enviorment inside the machine (prison) as well when outside in the world. iFloyd Mayweather demonstrates a few of the stances in Raekwon's 100 rounds video. Its basically the art of dodging and blocking punches, kicks, etc (imagine someone dodging and weaving while throwing punches and elbows at the same time, its making your defense your offense as well) without moving but using your arm.elbow.hands.and fore arms. theres various stances and tactics for use when going against someone who has a weapon. Basically its being able to fight without moving outside your physical cipher (a cricle the width and circumfrence of your feet spread out to shoulder length). it too hard to explain without showing but best believe if you master the 52 hand blocks youll be able to withstand almost every attack within the prison system when put in a tight situation and u have no weapon. I seen a cat hold off three latin kings (one of em had a shank) for almost 5 minutes (which is a long time in a free fight) until the turtles started tossin tear gas."

"you can roll your mattress up and use that as a punching bag; you can practice in the recreation gym - when the COs come around you can quickly make it look like youre practicing boxing. its more of a street martial art - there are various techniques and as far as dirty fighting goes a shank does wonders but when it comes to 52 aka matrix you can fight multiple guys at once ... if you can download raekwon's 100 rounds video you can see some forms as well as some old tyson training tapes.

one technique is called south bronx paw ---- lead with the right, throw blows with your elbows and then follow thru with your fist"

here is a discussion about it:

"A writer followed around an OG from Brooklyn and wrote a book called
Street Kingdom, which contains one or two short parts about his friend
using 52. t's definitely possible that it has not traveled outside of NY's
jails, since these gangsters were very xenophobic and didn't want
anyone to get an edge on them. Additionally, this fighting system
has died down as gangsters have gone from hand violence to
using guns on the streets, so 52 has not been passed on anymore,
which means very few people are left who know it.

another sparring tool I heard they use is slap boxing, which can be found on alot of innder city playgrounds. its like sparring in a way but without gloves and you dont hit full force. They also have various items in prison that they sue to substitute for pads/gloves/etc.

Interesting note: the man in Street Kingdom knew Mike Tyson as a teen,
and said he was a vicious mother****er in jail. If you look at his fight
against Bonecrusher, the author claims that Tyson's forearm blocks and
stophits are a technique from 52."

some techniques:

07-05-2005, 02:04 AM
Kid: You will not find a more hard-core TCMA proponent on this list than me. Most of the MMA crew you mentioned (like Knifefighter) and I have had massive arguments from time to time because of my belief that all the techniques of MMA and several that are excluded from MMA training because of rules in structured sporting events exist within TCMA. I have argued with them that the problem is not TCMA but rather certain trainers who only worry about form and forget to instruct function or conditioning. In addition I nearly ALWAYS post OT in the header if my subject is not about Gong Fu. Look at my most two recent threads: one was on-topic (practicing in public in China) the other was off topic (trouble accessing the Google network in China). I put OT in that one. So the complaints that you have levelled about others on this forum DO NOT apply to me.

This is me telling you this. Nobody else.

1: If you want to post off-topic do everyone a favour and put off-topic in the subject header.

2: The people here are serious martial artists. Some of them are traditionalists, some are not but this forum is generally not populated by punk-ass ninja wannabees and trolls. There are other forums out there where you would fit right in much better if you are not interested in a serious and respectful discussion of martial arts. This brings me to my third suggestion:

3: Respect - get some. I don't always agree with everyone on the list. But that doesn't mean I go ripping on them in some thread that they have no part of. That is just not cool. Just as an example, Knifefighter and I don't agree about much. Red 5 Angel and I don't generally participate in the same political threads because of how strongly we disagreed. But I still have a modicum of respect for them. Knifefighter steps up in MMA tournaments and sometimes he wins. He deserves props for that. Red 5 may not agree with me about politics and he may use different styles of martial arts than me but he still is a complex person and there have been martial arts related threads where the two of us have agreed about many things. What I am saying is that even if I don't always agree with them, even if I usually DISAGREE with them, I still have some respect for them. You generally don't show that respect. Perhaps this is part of the reason you have recieved so little of it.

4: 52 hands of the jailbird? Come on. Next you will be spouting on about cinnabar palm and how 133t Taiji can defeat any martial art but that the masters DON'T because they are all so enlightened.

Have you read anything about the founder of Yang Taiji? The guy was a ****! He'd beat the **** out of people for looking at him crosswise; his training regimen was so ferocious that his SON ran away from home to escape it. He wasn't an enlightened sage who was too good to fight.

There are a few taiji masters left who have preserved the martial traditions of the art and IF it is combined with an appropriate training regimen: conditioning, drills (and I DON'T just mean push hands), free sparring (again, NOT push hands alone) it can be a decent grappling art. I've heard enough good reviews of the combat efficacy of Xingyi that I am hoping to learn some while I am here in Shanxi, I crossed hands with a Bagua player (who also did Hung Gar, Ha Long, Western Boxing and Wing Chun) and he could hit like a ton of bricks while still being deceptive in his timing and movements. I'm not saying that there is no validity to the internal arts. I'm just saying that most SERIOUS martial artists who are interested in RBSD learn some external fighting too; it's just smart.

Of course for every 1 martial Taiji instructor there are probably 50 who do it for the non-martial health benefits and another 50 who are just waving their arms around. Taiji players, this isn't meant as a dig at you, YOU know which type you do and I don't, I haven't crossed hands with any of you.

So if you don't want to get banned again kid learn how to comport yourself. Notify people when posting OT. If a thread will fit onto another forum more on-topic than in the main one than post it there instead. Don't go name-dropping just to stick other forumites in the caky in order to get people off YOUR back. Try practicing some martial arts, any martial arts, and discuss your experiences in them rather than shooting off on the relative morality of internal vs external.


07-05-2005, 02:17 AM
first off don't call me a kid, there are people here alot older but less mature than me (this time I wont name them). Second I do practise martial arts, and have for a number of years already. As for tai chi being badass or whatever there is no proof of that, there is not a single video proof in this digital age we lvie in of a single tai chi technique (from the forms) being utilized in a real fight. Every cma person that fights uses kickboxing not techniques from their forms and two mans ets. The wu vs white crane was also sopposed to be badass.

07-05-2005, 02:42 AM
I certainly didn't say Taiji was "badass" but I was sure I read you saying that "internalists" had "gotten it right" because of their moral superiority. I cannot locate the direct quote. Either it came from somebody with nearly identical grammar and beligerence to you or it's been deleted. Anyway that was not the main point.

However while I was reading through your threads looking for that comment I found a total gem which is a good case in point for what I was saying about respect

my friend should get his own thread like Sifu Ross' Chan Tai San thread

Now aggression aside CTS was a man who spent a lifetime mastering the martial arts. Sifu Ross is one of the people on this board MOST deserving of respect for his OWN accomplishments and HE has a deep and abiding respect for CTS. Out of respect for Sifu Ross alone I would at least be polite regarding CTS even if I knew nothing about him from other sources but I have third party verification to many of Sifu Ross' more notorious stories. This man was seen as a "living national treasure" in China because of his preservation of traditional martial arts. When your buddy is seen in the same light you can make the same claims. Just because your friend who doesn't pay his drug debts is able to drop a few punks or tangle with some bouncers does not put him in the same league by any means.

07-05-2005, 04:07 AM
Enforcer (a.k.a. Reign of Trolling) is well known for his penchant for posting things like this. Though usually it has to do with prison rape... This thread is a step in that direction though. I say boot him now before the prison rape articles start appearing.