using the panther fist

[hskwarrior]

I was just wondering if the panther fist is anyone's favorite fist to use, and if so what type of conditioning training you use to strengthen that fist?


For myself, i do like the panther fist, and I would carry around a round leather pouch filled with bee bee's and just keep striking that.

But as Americans, much of us will never devote such attention as to conditioning certain fists.

If not the panther, then what are your favorite single strikes and how do YOU develop it to the level you can say you have mastered it?

frank

[Sow Choy]

Wassup Frank...

Panthers are nice, my favorite using this would be a throat strike...

But after training almost everyday with Master Chow Keung (Tai Shing Pek Kwar Moon), I still love the sow choy and a new love for pek choy...

Those Monkeys are crazy and are some of the most respected fighters of SE Asia... Their style is almost identical to CLF... But their training methods... Man... you dont wanna fight them, for a 59 yr old he can handle himself real well...

Joe

as for panther fist, we do push-ups with them, either on 2 knuckles or the last 3, and hit bags and wooden dummy with them...

Peace

[hskwarrior]

Whats up there Joe, Ya big dog?

hey are you planning to go to the taiji legacy in texas this month? My student is flying me out there, so i'll be there.

anyways, the panther to the throat, is it the (forgive my lack of Chinese terminology) one where the palm part of the hand in facing the ground or like a yum chop to the throat?

My favorite panther is the "rolling panthers." Lets say panther right under the nose then the second and third one are right behind it. it is done hand over hand and in the same spot. the good thing about that is any one of the panthers can instantly turn into a block if needed.

But, my new favorite is the yum chop panther to just below the armpit and into those top ribs. I love when i hear that "Thud" as your panther lands. I mean i experiment with all types of panthers, and if your panther fist is conditioned properly, man its evil!

Now, if there is a secret to forming a correct panther fist, can anyone share a little knowledge? Now at our school we have dubbed certain fists as the "ugly fist" and this is usually when the fist in not flat but a few finger and knuckles sticking out here and there. like making a solid flat fist and having your ring finder and pinky sorta stick out. you know what i mean. and i have seen some real ugly panther fists, and even a few that looked as if they were to strike with that fists they would only hurt themelves.

I do something with my fingers that make my panther fist much stronger and reduces "buckling." but before i share my idea, i want to hear a few from you guys.

frank

[Fu-Pow]

I think the key to the Panther Fist is the first two knuckles. If you are striking dead on then those are the main knuckles used to strike. I use the top of my thumb to kind of squeeze my thumb and first two fingers into a striking unit.

I don't have a lot of faith in Panther fists unless 1) you have incredibly strong fingers and wrists or 2) you are only going after soft targets. Its too easy for them to buckle and do nothing.

BTW, did anybody see the new batman movie? There's a scene where the lead character ie Batman (name?) and Liam Neeson are fighting. The lead character breaks out some panther fist and Liam Neeson goes something like "Aaaah.....panther fist." Then, of course, he proceeds to kick batman's ass.

Great movie all around though.

[hskwarrior]

sup fu pow,

I do the same with the thumb pressing into the forefinger except that when i press my thumb into my forefinger, i take the tips of my pinky and push it in the direction of my forefinger i.e. pushing down and up at the same time.

where i would attack with the panther fist is the cheeks, right under the nose, sternum, stomach, ribs, neck. nothing too hard like a forehead or the bridge of your nose.

but try my way and tell me what you think.


frank

[TenTigers]

bridge of the nose/forehead is exactly where I strike with pow choy/chop choy. It is called cheurng ngan choy, or steal the eyes strike-right on the bridge between the eyebrows. This strike causes temporary blindness, and excruciating pain. Any strike with either panther fist or pheonix-eye to the cheek area under the eyes-which is where the facial nerves are very exposed will shock the peripheral nervous system-shocking the opponent, leading up to your coup de grace. There are many variations of lien wan kuen, from what I have learned, and I try to develop them all! Using the running hand/leaking hand concept with your panther punch will net surprising results.

[Sow Choy]

Hello Everyone...

Frank, i will see you in texas... It will be my bday on 7/24 so I hope we can hang... I will be there fri-mon, so I am sure we will have fun... Have not received any emails from you...

Pantherfist...

I am sure there are some people who have a strong fist, but these days it seems many do not. There are lots of ways to apply them, but it is hard to make alot of these strikes on an unwilling target... thats why I favor the throat, even with a chuan la... Twisting with the panther fist is good, but I still prefer on it as a set up to a stong technique to knock out or down someone...

Lots of our students used the sow and pek choy this past weekend at the tournament and were very sucessfull, its very hard to block the CLF swing punces when they are set up correctly... But after my experience with master Chow Keung from Hong Tai Shing pek Kwar... I really see how so important the training must be.. They are crazy...

Lee Koon Hung had a match if I remember correctly with a thai boxer who would grab and begin kneeing the ribs, so when it was his turn I believe he put the guy in a head lock and panther fisted the guy in the temple to knock him out...

Another time I think in a restaurant, bam into the temple... So a quick surprise is how he liked it...

In the ring its almost impossible to use, in the street I guess its better, But i avoid those situations, the last one i had I used sow choys, straights and backfist, but it was very quick...

Hope everyone is doin great!!!

Joe

[CHAZ]

I heard a story about one of my seniors who got a glancing pantherfist strike in the chest as he practised a drill, it stopped his heart!! Sifu had to get it started again. After that incident it became my seniors favourite technique, he really conditioned it, knuckle press ups(pantherfist ones), bag work etc. It still is an awesome weapon, one I wouldn't want to be on the recieving end of. :D

[Infrazael]

Hello Everyone...

Frank, i will see you in texas... It will be my bday on 7/24 so I hope we can hang... I will be there fri-mon, so I am sure we will have fun... Have not received any emails from you...

Pantherfist...

I am sure there are some people who have a strong fist, but these days it seems many do not. There are lots of ways to apply them, but it is hard to make alot of these strikes on an unwilling target... thats why I favor the throat, even with a chuan la... Twisting with the panther fist is good, but I still prefer on it as a set up to a stong technique to knock out or down someone...

Lots of our students used the sow and pek choy this past weekend at the tournament and were very sucessfull, its very hard to block the CLF swing punces when they are set up correctly... But after my experience with master Chow Keung from Hong Tai Shing pek Kwar... I really see how so important the training must be.. They are crazy...

Lee Koon Hung had a match if I remember correctly with a thai boxer who would grab and begin kneeing the ribs, so when it was his turn I believe he put the guy in a head lock and panther fisted the guy in the temple to knock him out...

Another time I think in a restaurant, bam into the temple... So a quick surprise is how he liked it...

In the ring its almost impossible to use, in the street I guess its better, But i avoid those situations, the last one i had I used sow choys, straights and backfist, but it was very quick...

Hope everyone is doin great!!!

Joe

Sow Choy: Sigung Lee Koon Hung fought against a Thai boxer?!?

Never heard of this. Got more info? Also, didn't Tat Mau Wong fight against some too in an Southest Asian tournament or something? Can't be sure but that's what I heard.

Peace

[Sow Choy]

Infrazel...

With Grandmaster, I asked him a question about grappling about 10 years ago, so I remember mainly him telling me about grabbing the guy and panther punching him in the head... Pretty sure he was a Thai boxer, or at leat trained it...

Tat Mau Wong was a very sucessfull fighter and did win many times so it would be hard to know which event you speak of. I have spoke to many who saw him fight back then and said he was very good...

Joe

[Eddie]

A flat panther fist is much more solid than one where you use your thumb to press against your middle finger. Reason for this is that the last one, because of your thumb coming in, the upper part of your hand as well as your fingers makes a type of arch like shape. Even with the thumb supporting the middle finger, your hand is still not as solid as the old flat fist strike (where your fingers are all aligned in a straight line with your upper hand). Flat fist can take a much bigger impact. Besides, as Sow Choy said, because of the synamics, it makes it much easier to get in between the chin and the chest when you go for the throat.

Again (as in another post), the aim of a punch is not always to be hard…

oh BTW - the side of the temple is not a hard target. I can just picture how Grandmaster Lee Koon Hung's strikes could have knocked the guy out. :eek:

[hskwarrior]

now eddie,

i know you're not referring to me about the thumb and the middle finger, because i never said anything about a middle finger. so i am not sure if you are referring to me, but if so go and re-read my post again. if not, then my bad sorry dude.

and if you don't practice one hitter quitters, then thats ok. doesn't mean i am wrong for liking to hit hard. trust me i know how to use my CLF very well, and if i like to hit hard thats my choice. if i teach that to my students, guess what? that's my choice. no offense man, but you are one guy, and only one opinion, and everyone has one much like.....never mind.

so in ending this is the secong time you mentioned hitting hard in your posts, if you don't train to hit hard thats your business. but who are you to tell me i am wrong for training that way?


frank

[Eddie]

Hi hskwarrior,
Just as your posts reflect your views on certain aspects of your style/ training, so did mine. Never in any of my posts did I say your way is wrong, I just posted my views, which is what you asked for, just like you did, and everyone else did. My martial arts experience has become something very personal to me, and I realise it’s the same for everyone. I don’t expect people to agree with me, and if they don’t, I expect them to tell me. I might miss something, or have things completely wrong, that is why I find these forums so educational. You might not know it, but over the years, I have learned allot from you just by reading your posts and views. Same goes for many other posters. I thank you for that, but please allow me to grow my own thoughts and views. If you think I offended you on purpose in any of my posts, then just maybe you are just a tad bit to over sensitive. I have way to much respect for you and your master to do that.

Now please read my posts again without thinking that it is aimed towards you, and maybe you will see what I meant.

Keep on posting, its great to learn from people like you.

[hskwarrior]

are you trying to make me blush? :eek:

[Fu-Pow]

A flat panther fist is much more solid than one where you use your thumb to press against your middle finger.

I think you were referring to what I said. Actually, what I meant was that the thumb touches the side of the "index" finger, not the middle finger.

That said, the inside of the fist (ie the palm) SHOULD have a slightly concave shape. If the palm is completely flat it means you are overextending your fingers and if you hit anything hard you will bend them backwards.....ouch!!!

The fingers and the top of the hand should form a straight line so that the bones of your hand line up.

Not saying anyone is wrong, just providing clarification.

[Eddie]

Actually, I didnt really care who said it, it was just something I picked up along the posts, and it is a question I had to asnwer a few times. I took some time to chat to a medical expert about this, so my response was kind of just in general.



The fingers and the top of the hand should form a straight line so that the bones of your hand line up.


exactly what I was trying to say, thanks Fu Pow. I should really try to learn how to make a point without giving such long and stupid explanations :cool: