Swimming Pools v. Guns [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

Judge Pen

07-06-2005, 09:32 AM

I stole this from another forum:

I have been reading Steven D. Levitt’s current bestseller Freakonomics.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/006073132X/qid=1120587626/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-6770897-8087366?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

The following is an excerpt from the chapter, “What makes a perfect parent?” I thought that some of you would find it interesting.

"Consider the parents of an eight year old girl named, say, Molly. Her two best friends, Amy and Imani, each live nearby. Molly’s parents know that Amy’s parents keep a gun in their house, so they have forbidden Molly to play there. Instead, Molly spends a lot of time at Imani’s house, which has a swimming pool in the backyard. Molly’s parents feel good about having made such a smart choice to protect their daughter.

But according to the data, their choice isn’t smart at all. In a given year, there is one drowning of a child for every 11,000 residential pools in the United States. In a country with 6 million pools, this means that roughly 550 children under the age of ten drown each year.

Meanwhile, there is 1 child killed by a gun for every 1 million-plus guns. In a country with an estimated 200 million guns, this means that roughly 175 children under ten die each year from guns.

The likelihood of death by pool (1 in 11,000) versus death by gun (1 in 1 million plus) isn’t even close. Molly is roughly 100 times more likely to die in a swimming accident at Imani’s house than in gunplay at Amy’s."

MasterKiller

07-06-2005, 10:03 AM

That's all fine and dandy, unless your kid is one of those 175...

sean_stonehart

07-06-2005, 10:05 AM

Yeah but JP...no chance of a drive by cannonballing... :eek:

Chief Fox

07-06-2005, 10:35 AM

Guns don't kill people. Swimming pools kill people.

BeiTangLang

07-06-2005, 10:59 AM

That's all fine and dandy, unless your kid is one of those 175...

And "death by pool (1 in 11,000) versus death by gun (1 in 1 million plus) "; the pool is a better choice?

Thats fine & dandy unless your child is one of the 550!
100 times more likely to die drowning. Did you miss that part??

MasterKiller

07-06-2005, 11:11 AM

100 times more likely to die drowning. Did you miss that part??

No, I got that part. Swimming pools can be dangerous for kids under 10. Big surprise. Responsible parents put up gates and watch young kids around the pool like a hawk.

If I didn't trust the parents of my daughters' friends to watch them, I wouldn't let my girls go swimming without me.

Heck, on a global scale, millions of kids starve to death each year! That's an even bigger threat than pool drownings! And Malaria kills millions, too!

But that doesn't mean you should be O.K. with 175 kids under 10 blowing their heads off accidentally every year... Any death that could have easily been prevented should not be made light of just because statistically other events were more likely to occur.

Judge Pen

07-06-2005, 11:22 AM

But that doesn't mean you should be O.K. with 175 kids under 10 blowing their heads off accidentally every year...

No it's not ok. No one said it was. It's not ok for children to be left unattended at a swimming pool. It's not ok for gates not to be present. It's not ok for a gun not to be locked up and unloaded. It's not ok to leave children unattended in a house with a gun present. The point is, imo, that people are probably more laxed in their responsability with children around a swimming pool then in a home with a gun.

Afterall, lots of things can kill people accidently. You take measures to protect against that from happening whether it's a gun, a swimming pool, or prescription medicine.

zenile

07-06-2005, 11:31 AM

Well shoot, no pun intended!

I guess I'll just go sell my gun and build a pool in my backyard. Then I'll put a big sign in my front yard that says "Beware of Pool" out front to scare off any ne'er-do-wells.

MasterKiller

07-06-2005, 11:35 AM

Shaolinlueb

07-06-2005, 11:36 AM

I have a gun and a pool.

so double the death for your kids!

zenile

07-06-2005, 11:39 AM

Double your pleasure, double your fun :D

ewallace

07-06-2005, 11:46 AM

None of you guys know what the hell you are talking about.

Just yesterday a slightly modified AK47 assault rifle mounted on a bi-pod walked itself three city blocks and shot a family of four. They were not killed by the initial wounds, so the AK47 tossed all four in their family pool where they were found deceased.

brothernumber9

07-06-2005, 12:18 PM

my friends and I shoot pool all the time.

SevenStar

07-06-2005, 06:14 PM

I attended a funeral last week... A co-workers daughter drowned in their neighbor's pool... :( she was only three.

SevenStar

07-06-2005, 06:16 PM

this is it, from the local paper:

June 26, 2005

A 3-year-old girl drowned Saturday night at a neighborhood party she attended with her parents in Cordova.

Katherine Wade wandered away from the party in the 1200 block of Anise Cove and was found unconscious in a swimming pool at about 7:45 p.m., said Steve Shular, spokesman for the Shelby County Sheriff's Office.

Attempts to revive the girl at the scene were unsuccessful.

She was airlifted to Le Bonheur Children's Medical Center in extremely critical condition, and was pronounced dead at the hospital.

BM2

07-06-2005, 07:19 PM

I read where a boy, whose age I can not recall, raced his family to the motel pool.
They could not find him when the family arrived at the pool. Later he was located at the bottom of the eight foot deep side of the pool. :(
This occured within the last few days.
My wife and I would not let our son who can not swim, go over to a schoolmate's home. We did not know the family. We have, however, let him go wade in another family's pool after both parents said they would not leave the pool. This povided only a small abatement for our nerves while he was there.
As parents, our nerves just couldn't take it again and he hasn't gone over there since that time. We have made several excuses and they have stopped asking for our son to come over. I know they think we are being a little bit over protective but they have a set of double doors that leads just a few feet from the in ground pool. Of course there is no barrier from the house, only the privacy fence around the yard.

SimonM

07-07-2005, 12:16 AM

I'd still go with the house with the pool. Swimming pools were not designed to kill people; basic human negligence is the cause of death by swimming pool. Guns were designed to kill. There are certain ethical implications that me more likely to favor the swimming pool people over the gun people. I mean if the HAS to be an implement of death and dismemberment in the house could they at least show the good taste to have it be a sword? ;) :p

Scott R. Brown

07-07-2005, 01:53 AM

If we want to get technical, more children die in car accidents than from pool drownings and from guns put together!!!

So a truly good parent wont let their child into a car if you ask me!!!

ReignOfTerror

07-07-2005, 02:05 AM

http://www.mma.tv/TUF/index.cfm?ac=ListMessages&PID=1&TID=627471&FID=1&pc=5

David Jamieson

07-07-2005, 06:07 AM

Guns and Pools got nothing on traffic fatalities.

poor driving and plain old accidents kill hundreds of thousands every year globally.

Keep your children out of cars, pools and away from guns. Also, make sure to pack each child in 3 rolls of bubbles wrap and a flak vest before sending them out on their rollerskates.

remember, if you live in fear, in your basement, at least you'll be alive!

cowering like an idiot, but alive.

Judge Pen

07-07-2005, 06:24 AM

If we want to get technical, more children die in car accidents than from pool drownings and from guns put together!!!

So a truly good parent wont let their child into a car if you ask me!!!

Or at least drive more carefully and strap their children in. It amazes me that you still see parents driving down the road with babies sitting in their laps!

David Jamieson

07-07-2005, 06:48 AM

Or at least drive more carefully and strap their children in. It amazes me that you still see parents driving down the road with babies sitting in their laps!

In kentucky it's mostly a problem with having 12 offspring in the back of a dilapidated pickup truck a la grapes of wrath. :p

Liokault

07-07-2005, 07:07 AM

Ok, so from this site (HERE) (http://thegreenman.net.au/mt/archives/000473.html), I learn that 8 kids a day die in incodents involving guns in the USofA. Thats 365x8 = 2920.

Now from THIS (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us/Mortality) site I learn that in the year 2000 America lost 465 people (not just kids) to death by drowning while in a pool and 102 people to death by drowning following falling in to a pool. Total 567 Hmmmmm, time to loose the guns and pools.

If you go to the second site, look at the graph for pool deaths!

:) On a more up beat note, only 5 Americans died of flatulance in 2000 against 8 Egytpions!

Badger

07-07-2005, 09:05 AM

What really saddens me is the number of people that die every year from gangs of insane chimps. WAke up People!

Liokault

07-07-2005, 09:16 AM

What really saddens me is the number of people that die every year from gangs of insane chimps. WAke up People!

WOW (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mor_bit_or_str_by_oth_mam)

65 Your right. But its not specific on mammal type or what gang they belong to, but I have good info that they are Crips.

MasterKiller

07-07-2005, 09:22 AM

97 people died in falls involving ice-skates, skis, roller-skates or skateboards....? :eek:

Badger

07-07-2005, 09:26 AM

WOW (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mor_bit_or_str_by_oth_mam)

65 Your right. But its not specific on mammal type or what gang they belong to, but I have good info that they are Crips.

Yep...Those are American Crack Apes.

Liokault

07-07-2005, 09:36 AM

Yep...Those are American Crack Apes.

You mean like special forces apes? Ape seals? Can apes be Navy seals?

HearWa

07-07-2005, 10:13 AM

This is retarded, the two things are not even in the same ****ing league.

You can lock the gun away. You can't say the same for the swimming pool.

All the kid has to do is slip near the pool to drown. For the gun, they'd have to get it (wherever it is), [possibly] load it, **** it, point it at themselves or their friend and pull the trigger.

This is just another BS use of statistics. :mad:

David Jamieson

07-07-2005, 12:36 PM

always keep your cabana locked nevertheless!

@PLUGO

07-07-2005, 01:35 PM

You mean like special forces apes? Ape seals? Can apes be Navy seals?

would that make them Sea Monkeys?

Scott R. Brown

07-07-2005, 02:23 PM

Maybe the Monkey gang are the "Apes of Wrath" David was mentioning!!

The lastest statics state that all people who live actually die!!!!

I think the that says it all!!

To be perfectly safe, WE MUST ALL DIE!!!

Who wants to be first???? :confused:

I recommend having your chauffer ape driver your car into a swimming pool and while are you are drowning shoot yourself with your neighbors gun!! ;)

It worked for me!!!! :D

Liokault

07-07-2005, 02:41 PM

would that make them Sea Monkeys?

Ummm no. No apes and monkeys are quite differant i think you will find. Anyway so called sea monkeys are in fact really brine shrimp, not monkeys at all, deffinatly not in the great ape family.

Oso

07-07-2005, 05:57 PM

Judge Penn must die.

(only because Scott R. Brown stole my line)

Radhnoti

07-07-2005, 08:30 PM

Most gun advocacy groups argue that the ONLY way the numbers can be finessed so that even ONE child is killed by a firearm every day in the U.S. is if you include "kids" in the 13-19 year old category...often gang related ****CIDES.
According to the National Safety Council, Injury Facts, 2001 Edition if you look at the more RELEVANT statistics of "Deaths Due to Unintentional Injuries" it looks like this:

Firearms
(Age 0-4: 20) (Age 5-14: 60) (Age 15-24: 150) (Age 25-44: 190) (Age 45-64: 110) (Age 65-74: 30) (Age 75+: 40)
Total accidental death estimate by firearms in 2000: 600

The only lower estimated accidental death statistic they had on the chart was death by poisoning via gases/vapors...and that was STILL a total of 400.

Just for comparison FALLS:
(Age 0-4: 70) (Age 5-14: 70)(Age 15-24: 210) (Age 25-44: 950) (Age 45-64: 1900) (Age 65-74: 1700) (Age 75+: 11,300)
Total accidental death estimate by falling in 2000: 16,200

From an EXCELLENT website called "GunCite.com":
"A fatal gun accident, particularly when a child is involved, often makes state or national news. This gives the impression that: fatal gun accidents are more prevalent than other fatal accidents, gun accidents are increasing, and civilian gun ownership must be further restricted or regulated.

The reality does not correspond to the perception created by media coverage. Fatal gun accidents declined by almost sixty percent from 1975 to 1995, even though the number of guns per capita increased by almost forty percent.

Fatal gun accidents involving children (aged 0-14) also fell significantly, from 495 in 1975, to under 250 in 1995."

Mr Punch

07-07-2005, 09:20 PM

I recommend having your chauffer ape driver your car into a swimming pool and while are you are drowning shoot yourself with your neighbors gun!! I suppose you think that's funny you insensitive barstard. That's exactly what happened to my Uncle.

:mad:

KC Elbows

07-07-2005, 09:56 PM

This is all the fault of gun control. If congress would simply allow the free market to provide a special "child killer" teflon round, pools would seem safer.

Scott R. Brown

07-08-2005, 12:49 AM

My condolences Mat, but your dad should have not borrowed my gun and had his ape drive him into my pool. Do you know how hard it is to get ape hair out of the filters?? ;)

Judge Pen

07-08-2005, 04:47 AM

You can lock kids away from swimming pools. You can make them wear seat belts. You can keep guns locked up. You can limit the constitutional rights of apes. It's all about personal reasonability.

I'm not a huge gun advocate. I grew up around them. I know that they can be safely stored by responsible people. I also know they are dangerous and many gun owners do not own them responsibly. Accidents are going to happen no matter the mechanism. Gun related deaths in crimes take on a whole new dimension and the two can't be compared in that regard. But these are the arguments you here.

I'm for personal responsibility whether it is guns, prescription medicine, swimming pools etc. As for manipulating statistics. . . . that’s what people do to statistics. You can take a group of figures, think creatively, and make an argument that, at first blush, sounds valid.

Liokault

07-08-2005, 10:26 AM

This is all the fault of gun control. If congress would simply allow the free market to provide a special "child killer" teflon round, pools would seem safer.

Yeah, wheres the massive, Bush backing, money throwing, statistic twisting pro pool lobby?

SevenStar

07-08-2005, 10:37 AM

Ummm no. No apes and monkeys are quite differant i think you will find. Anyway so called sea monkeys are in fact really brine shrimp, not monkeys at all, deffinatly not in the great ape family.

mmmmm shrimp...

bonetone

07-08-2005, 02:33 PM

Ever hear of crab monkeys, they're alot like sea monkeys but they live in your pubes.

SevenStar

07-08-2005, 02:40 PM

ewallace mentioned in another thread that something was bothering him - it could be that he has crab monkeys.

ewallace

07-11-2005, 07:58 AM

ewallace mentioned in another thread that something was bothering him - it could be that he has crab monkeys.
Yeah, those fukkers become nasty when the humidity is very high.

YuanZhideDiZhen

07-12-2005, 08:55 AM

To be perfectly safe, WE MUST ALL DIE!!!

no... t be perfectly safe you must have a nihilistic attitude towards life and sequester yourself from society as monks do: refusing to live for the fear of the experience of joy and suffering. in a sick way it may be what jesus actually taught: live by not living so you'll get fat so that when you die more of you can be tilled into the fields to make more bread and more wine. this will be my body and this will be my blood. and there into you will be reincarnated: your new life will be someone else's longevety. (more of this thesis can be explained elsewhere to folks not easily offended.)

so hurry up and recycle you fraidy cats! :cool:

Yaksha

07-12-2005, 07:39 PM

It might be because so many more people own swimming pools than guns.

Statistics are like a two piece swimming suit- What they reveal is suggestive; what they conceal is vital.

Radhnoti

07-12-2005, 08:00 PM

Again from GunCite.com:
"The risk of being a victim of a fatal gun accident can be better appreciated if it is compared to a more familiar risk...Each year about five hundred children under the age of five accidentally drown in residential swimming pools, compared to about forty killed in gun accidents, despite the fact that there are only about five million households with swimming pools, compared to at least 43 million with guns. Thus, based on owning households, the risk of a fatal accident among small children is over one hundred times higher for swimming pools than for guns."

This is, I'm fairly certain, based on U.S. statistics.