View Full Version : What are your opinions on this Tai Chi Article??

Eight Immortals
12-25-2000, 11:44 PM
<A HREF="http://www.ptcci.freeserve.co.uk/articles/fai-46.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.ptcci.freeserve.co.uk/articles/fai-46.htm</A>
What do you think about what he is saying about Cheng Man-ching & Yang Cheng-fu??

Kevin Wallbridge
12-26-2000, 12:40 AM
While I would agree with Mr Docherty's assessment that there is a lot of Doufu Taiji out there, to suggest that only his style of Taiji is real is incredible arrogance. He certainly has an axe to grind.

His story about Wu Tunan disproving the origins of Taiji with the Chen family is simply not true. When the first Taiji conference was held in Beijing all Taiji was believed to have been derived from Yang Luchan, nobody mentioned the Chens. Chen Zhaokuei went to this conference but he was told that he didn't do Taiji, just some village form of fighting. He was told this by none other than Wu Tunan. He realized that some people there had high levels of skill and this was why Chen Fake came to Beijing to support the Chen claim as the real root of Taiji. The claim of the Chens has been confirmed through Chen Fake's visit and further research (see Douglas Wiles' work "Lost Taiji Classics of the Late Ching Dynasty" and "Taiji Ancestors" for an English source). Unfortunately for Wu Tunan the arrival of Chen Fake to Beijing was a major loss of face, any bias?

Docherty himself seems to be doing the same thing, choosing to read the facts a certain way just because it suits a view of the world as he would like it to be. I'd like to know his views on Wude (martial virtue).

"The heart of the study of boxing is to have natural instinct resemble the dragon" Wang Xiangzai

12-27-2000, 04:11 AM
Eight Immortals: Your quoted site is not available.

Boulder Student
12-27-2000, 07:30 PM
It's funny. I like how he trashes men that have been dead for 25 years or more. I guess he has no respect for the dead and is unwilling to confront the living by name. That is low and weak.

As far as Cheng Man-ching goes, my understanding is that he never turned down a challenge and was always easy to find. I have never heard of him being beaten. Why was the charlatan never bested? Luck?

More mouth boxing from someone who won a couple of tournements 20+ years ago. Robert Smith has a hilarous chapter on folks like Dan Docherty in his book Martial Musings. Dan may have martial skill, but he obviously has no class. I hope he fails in his attempt to spread the "real deal" across England and Europe.


One must toughen up without losing one's tenderness.

12-27-2000, 07:37 PM
get back to work cesar! and stop doing the y/cross step combination wrong demmit!

"Maaan, you come right out of a comic book."

Eight Immortals
12-27-2000, 08:30 PM
uhhhh that was a low blow Mark !! ;)
You know I'm still practicing it so its obvious that it wont be perfect still. But someday.......
I'll see you at class tonight Definitely


12-27-2000, 08:53 PM
The interview started out great, I was really interested in his style and its benefits. Then he got *****y...

Without going outside, you may know the whole world.
Without looking through the window, you may see the ways of heaven.
The ****her you go, the less you know.
--Lao Tsu

12-27-2000, 09:15 PM
It looks great....I'm just playin.

"Maaan, you come right out of a comic book."

01-01-2001, 11:55 AM
As a student of Sifu Docherty, I feel
that I have to put my two cents in this
debate. First, my intention is not to defend
my teacher's way of behaviour as I know that
he stands for his own acts. Second, he has
never claimed that his style is the only
true Taiji, only that many other teachers
and schools don't teach Taiji as an effective
combat art.

I must confess that Sifu Docherty isn't a
master of traditional meaning. In fact, he
has several times shocked me and my fellow
students with his rather radical point of
view and teaching. Although he isn't the
master of true humbleness, he certainly has
great martial skill. And that's why I and
many other chose to learn Wudang Tajiquan
from him.

And now a question for you guys, have you
ever met Sifu Docherty? If no, how can you
talk down on a person that you haven't even
met in flesh? Isn't that making the same
mistake that the person you talk down does?

I don't know about you, but I always try not
to make a opinion about someone based only
on rumours and what other people say.


01-02-2001, 06:25 PM
Just thought I would point everyone to part two of the interview at...

<A HREF="http://www.taichichuan.co.uk/" TARGET="_blank">http://www.taichichuan.co.uk/</A>

Interesting reading.

" I'll play it first, then tell you what it is later..."
- Miles Davis

Kevin Wallbridge
01-03-2001, 03:38 AM

If you read my post you will see that I have simply questioned your teachers integrity because he has related something that I believe to be a falsehood. This is not about a rumour that I heard, its published in that article, so why do I need to meet him to question his statement?

As well, while he may not have said that his lineage of Taiji is the only real style he trashes most other styles and teachers (if he'd gone after Sun style I'd have said he trashed every other style)and offers no room for contemporaries. He is very critical. So I ask the question, who else matches his standard?

Its easy to go after "park" Taiji, but it seems very hard to say anything good about other practitioners. I've seen lots of internal stylists whose practice is empty, the majority for sure, but there are still lots of good people and schools out there. Why waste so much breath on the bozos?

"The heart of the study of boxing is to have natural instinct resemble the dragon" Wang Xiangzai

01-04-2001, 11:25 AM
My post wasn't pointed at you in particular,
it was a general reply to most of the other
posts in this discussion. I'm not going to
discuss about what is the "truth of Taiji"
since I'm not the right person to do it.
I haven't done any proper research in this
area myself and know too little. I trust what
my Sifu teaches me since I know that he has
done, and is still doing, serious research
on this.

And honestly, I'm not that interested in lineage
and history. I'm more interested in martial
ability and skills, and my teacher has proven
that he possesses these qualities well.

Well, since I've already put my two cents
in this debate... I'll quit this now. :)


01-07-2001, 04:41 PM
does anybody know anything about the competition? I mean does anybody know how good the other paticipants were?