how would you fight these guys

[ReignOfTerror]

hell, how would you fight one of these guys?

http://www.orsiitaliani.com/booyaatribe05.jpg

[aaaaaaa]

The bigger they are the more there is to hit! thats what i always tell myself if i am faced with a meathead.

I reckon that a few leg kicks would put them on the floor in no time, and the bigger they are the harder they will fall.

Knock their kneecaps out, snapkicks + backfists to groin, their necks look open because they are trying to look hard by raising their heads. Eye gouges, biting

I have fought some big people before. None of them knew how to use their strength properly. One tried to throw me on the floor, all I did was stepped to the side an he threw himself on the floor.

[Scott R. Brown]

I would run!!!!! Big guys like this have no stamina!!

But if i had to fight one empty handed i would get behind him and try to choke him out. Otherwise take a baseball bat to the shins and knees!

[Club Kozak]

Well seeing that they seem to be gang members I would be miles away from them. Them having weapons doesn't make fighting them an option. If necessary, hit and run!
:)
www.clubkozak.com (http://www.clubkozak.com)

[Vasquez]

hell, how would you fight one of these guys?

http://www.orsiitaliani.com/booyaatribe05.jpg

first tell em brothers to go back to their hood

[Mr Punch]

I'd do their missuses while they were out greasing each other's muscles or whatever it is their little club does!

War of attrition mate.

That, and VD.

[ReignOfTerror]

how bout this question. How would you either intimidate them preventing them form fighting, or restrain them? (or one of them by himself)

[Rokto_Obotar]

ok im 16 guys im 6'4'' and im 200lbs I have been in martial arts my whole life and i usualy cary around 2 knives and some throwing objects anyways one at a time thats how you take out these guys. Trust me I dont care who you are, ware you have been how old you are, how much you can bench, how many friends you got or what gang your in. i bet anyone who has taken MA as long as I have can take everyone of these guys down no problem. The trick is you can be slick and use gorilla tactics or you keep disabling parts of their body every time the next one runs at you. This is were akido, shotokan and most kung fus come in handy. Im sorry to say but any of you Judo guys are screwd because say you get one of these guys down and in a arm bark the rest of them will start kickin the crap out of you... literaly. but my advice if you are faced with this many people dont think that you are the ONLY highlander you run your ass off unless you got a few of your MA buddys with you. (the majority of my friends are into martial arts like me so as long as I have 2 of my MA buddys with me im more than positive we could handle a few pipsqueeks like them.

Oh yah see the guy in the front the minute he looked down to draw his gun I would have already had it in my hand telling them to give me there lunch money. use your surroundings guys if you see one of them with a knife or gun there your main priority. again only do this if you are skilled with weaponry tactics and gun deffense tactics.

[ReignOfTerror]

you remind me of steven seagal in fire down below. The question is if you grab his gun how do you know he wont hold it hard and squeeze itpreventing you from taking it from him and thus his friends will already shoot you by that time? I no of no martial art that teaches effective gun disarms or ones quick where multiple opponents are concerned.

[Rokto_Obotar]

If you study preasure points like I do there are MANY MANY MANY!!!! ways to disarm a gun without even touching the person there are MANY MANY MANY!!! ways to take the gun by hiting specific parts of the body releasing the hand. people think specificly on the hand has to be tight what happens if i snap kicked his head, kumatay to the groin, palm heal to the face, elbow rupture to his forearm, released the trigger casing while safely have an inside perimiter away from the gun direction. There are so many things you can do If taught correctly its not just his hand forearm, elbow, shoulder, nee if you cause pain in the right place your grip will become weak to focus on the area you were hit leaving the hand open fore a disarm. Like I said you have to know what your doing.

[ReignOfTerror]

than what style will teach you this? and lets say what if they have a shotgun and are holding it in both hands one on each end?

[hskwarrior]

rokto

forgive me for saying this, but in your response on how to fight the booyaa tribe,
you're full of ****. I know those cats, and trust me they are real, real, big in person.

if you are only 16, then how long have you been training? you did say if they have trained as long as you have, so how long is that? i mean i am 36 now and have spent 25 years of my life in Choy Lee Fut.

[Mr Punch]

Don't worry about him hskwarrior, he's obviously on crack!

[Samurai Jack]

I think the guy with the gun tucked into the front of his waistband is putting himself at serious risk there. What if he forgets to leave the safety on? What if I pull the trigger for him? If the safety is on, how long does it take him to pull his piece, take the safety off, then c ock his pistol? If I'm close enough and he's silly enough to carry around a loaded gun like that... well I don't want to do too much chest pounding, but I see a major weakness there.

[Samurai Jack]

Oh yeah, and the guy on the far left is holding a pistol too, trying to look covert as he flexes his pecs. Anyone else see where his gun is pointed? I'd hate to be the guy sitting next to him when he flexes his trigger finger.
;)

[KC Elbows]

hell, how would you fight one of these guys?

http://www.orsiitaliani.com/booyaatribe05.jpg

I'd simply buy a grenade and toss it in their midst on my way to yoga. While this might temporarily disrupt the harmony of my Plough, I am sure that my chakras will open right back up in no time.

Next!

['MegaPoint]

Holy ****!!! I ain't seen the Boo-Yaa Tribe in years. Real hardcore Cali Samoan gangbangers and M.C.s. Actually had a nice cut in the early 90s. Them cats can squab for real. You better be rollin' deep if you're gonna step to those dudes!

[Mr Punch]

Is there a translation site that'll help with that last post? :)

[Indestructible]

I would fight them with kindness.
and hugs.

[Mikkyou]

I would let them them all gang bang me and as we all sleep together in bed take my revenge and chop them into pieces I would need psychological help from the trauma but sometimes you got to take a few hits to win a fight right?

[Gangsterfist]

hmm from 150 yards away and a 30.06 rifle with a nice scope. they will never see the little red dot on the back of their heads. if they run towards me pull out a shot gun and hope i live.

[PangQuan]

start out by "Hola Vato! Me Casa's You Casa" then I would bust out a 40 of OE pour some out for the homies, bust out some thug lyrics and pass around the mota.

why fight when you can just kick it ? Learn how to avoid confrontation through tactical manuevering...

[Vasquez]

hmm from 150 yards away and a 30.06 rifle with a nice scope. they will never see the little red dot on the back of their heads. if they run towards me pull out a shot gun and hope i live.

do u think a bullet can stop a samoan?

[Gangsterfist]

do u think a bullet can stop a samoan?


Nope, the laser sight was for the ordinace weapons miles away. The laser is just to guide the missles to the target :)

[Vasquez]

Nope, the laser sight was for the ordinace weapons miles away. The laser is just to guide the missles to the target :)

But if you don't kill it, it will remeber and come looking for you. just like elephants. samoans are like little elephants.

[Gangsterfist]

But if you don't kill it, it will remeber and come looking for you. just like elephants. samoans are like little elephants.

LOL ok you got me on that one!

[BornToKill]

how bout these guys?
http://www.prisonpenpal.net/listings/ads/images/1007.1.jpg
http://www.prisontalk.com/gallery/data/503/4012michael-med.jpg
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art2/endmugs7.jpg
http://writeaprisoner.com/images/picts/z-147033.jpg
http://www.prisonpenpal.net/listings/ads/images/1113.1.jpg
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art3/dmilam1.jpg
http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/img-exp/ru-1.jpg
http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/img-exp/ru-16.jpg
http://www.tattoo-spirit.de/content/0308/crips/02.jpg
http://www.tattoo-spirit.de/content/0308/crips/03.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/wiebefamily2000/images/bobatxmas.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/wiebefamily2000/images/craven.jpg
http://writeaprisoner.com/images/picts/z-k41972.jpg
http://www.courttv.com/graphics/photos/trials/dogmaul/inside/lede/convict_inside_021502.jpg

or how bout solonik the superkiller?
http://gangstersinc.tripod.com/AleksandrSolonik.html
http://english.pravda.ru/main/2003/01/24/42510.html
http://www.iravunk.com/crime/eng/2002/print/v4.html
http://www.ecwpress.com/books/thief.htm

or what about the brand?
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/index.ssf?040216fa_fact6

these guys all have more street cred than sevenstar?

[Samurai Jack]

BornToKill, your guys are all easy; I'd fight 'em by denying thier parole petitions.

[northernArts]

first tell em brothers to go back to their hood
Nice. Then deploy weapons in anticipation of their reaction. :D
If I'm at home I would hopefully have one of these:
SIG 552 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as25-e.htm) (.223 remington cartridge)
FN SCAR-H (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm) (7.62mm)

I plan on making a purchase soon.

[TonyM.]

Go with the FN in 7.62

[northernArts]

I'd simply buy a grenade and toss it in their midst on my way to yoga. While this might temporarily disrupt the harmony of my Plough, I am sure that my chakras will open right back up in no time.

Next!
LOL!!


I would let them them all gang bang me and as we all sleep together in bed take my revenge and chop them into pieces I would need psychological help from the trauma but sometimes you got to take a few hits to win a fight right?
ROFLMAO!! you owe me a keyboard. :)


Go with the FN in 7.62
thanks. I do like the idea of using the old warsaw pact ammunition. :)

[Vasquez]

i don't know about that, but if they're anything like the Mauri (indigenous New Zealanders - big; waaay big), they'll sell you more if you run out - because that's evidently what they did with the Brits at one point, just sos they could go on fightin'! ( as told to me by one kiwi i know...)

Nah it's all show with the Hakka thing and all that just freaked the british gentlemen out.

[Sifu Darkfist]

quite frankly most of my students work as bouncers or personal security or they are body builders and law enforcement this is because my school is in a first class gym god has smiled upon me. So i know first hand the percentage of men that actually know hand to hand combat in its true form. it is less than ten percent of the general population. However these guys dont qualify as general population and are probably packing as am I. therefore my military background and weapons practice will give me the edge in combat> However these does not mean that i will be able to avoid a round from their first volley in which case i will be the victim. I guess what i am saying is you MUST fight regardless of the outcome. you cannot allow yourself to be victimized in life. Fighting includes a fighting withdrawal such as those used to break contact with the enemy in order to sieze the initiative at different locationor time.

[Samurai Jack]

Where's your school Darkfist, and what do you teach?

[Vasquez]

quite frankly most of my students work as bouncers or personal security or they are body builders and law enforcement this is because my school is in a first class gym god has smiled upon me. So i know first hand the percentage of men that actually know hand to hand combat in its true form. it is less than ten percent of the general population. However these guys dont qualify as general population and are probably packing as am I. therefore my military background and weapons practice will give me the edge in combat> However these does not mean that i will be able to avoid a round from their first volley in which case i will be the victim. I guess what i am saying is you MUST fight regardless of the outcome. you cannot allow yourself to be victimized in life. Fighting includes a fighting withdrawal such as those used to break contact with the enemy in order to sieze the initiative at different locationor time.

I prefer a pacifist approach like buddhism and tai chi.

[DaveFenton]

Catch him cold, ask him a question and as he starts to answer, hit him as hard as you can. Two things will happen, firstly you'll catch him totally un-aware increasing the chance of knocking him down giving you time to plan your next move. Or the relaxed jaw he has whilst answering increases the chance of you actually breaking his jaw, if you punctuate this with a nice loud sound (sort of battle cry) it may stop the others pounding you straight away.

[Vasquez]

Catch him cold, ask him a question and as he starts to answer, hit him as hard as you can. Two things will happen, firstly you'll catch him totally un-aware increasing the chance of knocking him down giving you time to plan your next move. Or the relaxed jaw he has whilst answering increases the chance of you actually breaking his jaw, if you punctuate this with a nice loud sound (sort of battle cry) it may stop the others pounding you straight away.

LOL a/f all your ma training still don't have confidence to face bad looking characters..... it is this profiling that will catch you unawares by someone who looks decent.

[macaulay]

Rather than talking about what you would do, ask why are you in this situation. These guys are not going to be looking for trouble, they are trouble. Why have you gone looking for them? What kind of deluded ego trip are you on? You guys should spend more time training and less time typing. The title of the forum is reality fighting...

jmo, Ian

[Vasquez]

Yeah you wanna look for these guys because your training makes you want to scrap and roll with everyone. You just bad mouth em mothers and you've got yourself a training session.

[SimonM]

The bigger they are the more there is to hit! thats what i always tell myself if i am faced with a meathead.

I reckon that a few leg kicks would put them on the floor in no time, and the bigger they are the harder they will fall.



I have stepped into the ring once with one guy with pipes like that. He hit hard. In a boxing match he whupped me. On the street I don't know which of us would have won; I fight very dirty I don't know if he was dumb enough to play fair if he scrapped like it was a boxing match I would have had a shot. If he knew how to fight outside a ring... he was stronger than me, equal in speed and superior - in boxing specific skills. Do the math.

Guys like this the best way to handle them is be polite, respectful and unafraid. Generally if you act like that they will either leave you alone or be friendly. Act like a b!tch and they will treat you like one. Act like a punk and the whole crew will want to put you in your place.

Against those guys I think I would want to be at least as armed as them... The guy in the front is visibly packing heat. :D

I would not want to try facing two of them unless I had some very good backup with me no matter how skilled I get.

Believe it or not but leg kicks sometimes fail to put people on the floor. :eek:

[Vasquez]

If he reached for the gun, I would have crushed his windpipe before he can shoot.

[SimonM]

Let's hear it for the rubber boy. Capable of crushing a man windpipe from 20 feet!

You do realize that firearms are ranged weapons don't you? Or is your breach with reality so great that you think you can dodge bullets like in the Matrix.

I swear! Do you and mega-b!tch trade notes or something? How best to annoy martial artists? Is there some troll-specific forum you can go to in order to pick up tips on being a *******?

[Vasquez]

Simon M, no no no of course you can't dodge bullets. But bullets are only as accurate as the shooter. We're talking about closing in from a few feet away. You'll ust hide from a pistol at 20 feet - its not that accurate. geezzzzz

[Yamesk]

Okay, I didn't read the full three pages of posts here as I was somewhat lazy at the time. Anyway, most Martial Artists would agree when I say that being in shape definitely promotes good health, but strength and fitness alone don't really play that much of a role in fighting at all.

People that are taller than you are HATE elbowing distance. If you can get close enough to them to elbow them then you can really nail their stomach. A technique we use in my dojo is stomp on the opponent's foot and stand on it while attacking them; it renders them unable to move.

If you were fighting all of them at the same time I would suggest using something that could take each individual one down hard and fast. Also when fighting several people at once the worst possible situation is if you were surrounded. Move out of the way if more than one person is fighting you and try to attack them when conditions are favorable (like when they are all in front of you and not surrounding you completely.)

I was thinking that if one tried to punch you that you could grab their arm and throw them down. I'm not very skilled in grappling as I am a heavy striker. But my plan would be to be defensive and never attack if I was surrounded unless conditions were favorable for me and not them.

Another suggestion is try taking down an individual person at a time. If you hit one and then move to the next it gets very confusing and would take forever.

That's just my opinion though.

Edit: Just to clarify, I only read the first post and the ones following on the front page. I posted this edit to clarify that this was not a response to any of the other messages because I didn't read the last two pages completely and only saw the first post with the photo.

[Slade]

My first instinct would be to run, if that wasnt possible I guess id do my first instict I always do. How much weight do you think those knees are holding up??, i think a fair few nicely placed round kicks on knee hight and keep doing it while evading whatever slow ass punches those huge arms can do. and just keep pounding that one knee until it buckles. Then id ethier kick him in the head on the ground or run. Probably run though.

I wonder how much that much muscle would slow you down, seriously im reasonbly large cos I do build a bit, but not that that extent. I would imagine that is OVER bulk and would slow you down dramaticly espessially in footwork.

Anyway key point destroy there knees, and if you can poke out an eye. Stuff fighting fairly with a guy who is huge, if he grapples you, you are basicly dead. so you have to stay out of his grappling range and just try destroy a knee.

[Vasquez]

Never Try To Run Away - That Will Only Make Animals Like Them Chase Ya. Best To Appear You're Not Frighten - Walk Towards Them If You Have To - But Never Run Ever

[Slade]

Im 5'10" 175 pounds and I can run 3 mile in 20 mins flat. Id like to see them catch me.

[MonkeySlap Too]

They re nice enough to bring me weapons, I really feel I should oblige them.

[Yamesk]

Never Try To Run Away - That Will Only Make Animals Like Them Chase Ya. Best To Appear You're Not Frighten - Walk Towards Them If You Have To - But Never Run Ever

Good advice. I'd rather go down fighting than to be seen running. Also, random question - do you happen to have a DeviantART account? Your writing style resembles an artist I've seen somewhere on there. Just wondering.

Anyway back on topic. Slade I don't see why you would run when you can just take them down. If it wasn't a death situation I'd try my best to take them out. Oh and while on subject of 3 mile running, that's an awesome time. It takes me about 26 minutes, and if I really really push it on one of my good days I can do about 23 minutes and 36 seconds. So you got me beat.

[Mr Punch]

You do realize that firearms are ranged weapons don't you? Or is your breach with reality so great that you think you can dodge bullets like in the Matrix.I'm not intending to agree with this **** by any means, buuuuut, there was at least one study I read of where some police dept tested people to see if they were able to close the distance on a shooter, and in the majority of cases as I remember anything up to 15 feet gave the distance closer a distinct advantage over the average shooter trying to plug him... I don't have any links, cos it was the day before I had a PC of my own, but the info should be on the net somewhere...

[Mr Punch]

...most Martial Artists would agree...on nothing!!! :D
but strength and fitness alone don't really play that much of a role in fighting at all.Strength plays a huge role. Fitness may do too, depending on the situation. Plus being born, brought up and then ruling the ghetto may have some relation!:D


People that are taller than you are HATE elbowing distance. If you can get close enough to them to elbow them then you can really nail their stomach. Sure they do. That's why with the longer reaches it's going to be really really hard to get in there! Plus, an elbow to the stomach is leaving your head open for a grab or a beatdown, and is quite probably not as effective against a taller guy than a rising elbow to the head, which will also cover you and give you a chance at really rocking them.
A technique we use in my dojo is stomp on the opponent's foot and stand on it while attacking them; it renders them unable to move.Do you believe this?! We have the same tech in wing chun, and most strong guys will easily pull away, whilst unbalancing you into the bargain within an easy beatdown range. I do not want to get into elbow or stomp range with guys this much bigger unless I'm d@mn sure of the position.
I was thinking that if one tried to punch you that you could grab their arm and throw them down. LOL :D Easy to read :rolleyes: !
But my plan would be to be defensive and never attack if I was surrounded unless conditions were favorable for me and not them.If you can't escape and are surrounded, the last thing you want to do is be defensive. Defensiveness will always involve evasive footwork and not getting caught, and if you're surrounded this will get you destroyed (speaking from ugly experience). It's when you're surrounded that you really wanna go apesh!t and break a hole in one of them enough to run away. Plus, when the hell do you think conditions will be favourable if you are surrounded by this size of person?! When the Seventh Cavalry pulls up!? :D

Slade I don't see why you would run when you can just take them down. Can you just take them down?! :p
If it wasn't a death situation...What you gonna do, ask them their intentions...
before you
try my best to take them out. ...Then you gonna buy them dinner?!


Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to your opinion, even if it tells us that you have no experience outside the dojo and that at this rate your first experience will also be your last! :eek:

[Mr Punch]

Sorry Yamesk, just read your profile... I'd guessed 19 and 2 years, but I was a year off... You might not be old enough for hard liquor yet, but I assume you're old enough for coffee... or at least to smell some...!!!???;) :D

Just ragging ya. But take care with the never run bs. I'd rather lose some pride than my life, as a guy who has had to run and had to fight...

[Slade]

LOL @ Mat, I didnt wanna pick apart his post but since he said it I guess ill back you up.

I definetly wouldnt wanna get in too close to them purely because if they grapple you, you are going home in a coffin unless you are really good with your BJJ.

Stomach elbows would probably do next to nothing if you look a the front guy his abs are freaking huge, his got at least 6 inches thick of muscle on his abs so he wouldnt even feel it really. Eblow to the floating ribs might do something if you kept doing it.

If you could ever out menouver those giants(probably pretty easy) you might be able to land a nice downwards elbow at the base of the skull producing a knockout if lucky.

the Eye poke is always a favorite, you cant train how to resist an eye poking to know knowledge and if you can, I dont wanna do the training.
BTW Yamesk if you can "JUST TAKE THEM DOWN" I would like to know how with that much body mass there is alot of weight holding them to the ground due to gravity I personally would have quite alot of touble trying to judo thow that *******.



Quote:
A technique we use in my dojo is stomp on the opponent's foot and stand on it while attacking them; it renders them unable to move.
Do you believe this?! We have the same tech in wing chun, and most strong guys will easily pull away, whilst unbalancing you into the bargain within an easy beatdown range. I do not want to get into elbow or stomp range with guys this much bigger unless I'm d@mn sure of the position.

I do William Chuengs style of Wing chun and ive never learnt this technique, if anything ive stepped on someones foot by accident mid fight and its mega ruined me. I didnt know it was a technique, im taking it you do "Traditional" I learn under Sifu Bruce Corels, Phil Redmond might know him, but yeah... I havnt learnt that as a technique and im Black Sash so hmm who knows.

Finally WTF Yamesk fitness not playing a role in fighting? in fighting Anarobic fitness is a huge role for doing huge bursts of punches in short ammounts of time. Strength has bearing to a degree, punching power ect. Overall body conditioning is whats the difference between life and death in certain situations the ability to be able to take body and head shots without getting totally freaked out and concussed is a ability that will save you BIG TIME.

[Vasquez]

I had a deviantART acconut some time ago. Guess you finally caught me!!!! :D :D :D :D

[SimonM]

[/i]Sure they do. That's why with the longer reaches it's going to be really really hard to get in there! Plus, an elbow to the stomach is leaving your head open for a grab or a beatdown, and is quite probably not as effective against a taller guy than a rising elbow to the head, which will also cover you and give you a chance at really rocking them.

I'm certainly not short (6 foot 1 inch) and yet I LOVE elbow range. Why? Because I realized that as a tall person elbow, knee and stomp range was a potential weakness and so I drilled it constantly. I am especially fond of elbows (though in a clinch a knee to the ribs never hurt me yet) please shorties come into elbow range. Just be prepared to see my elbow en route to your nose. :eek: ;) :D

[Mr Punch]

I was trying to resist seriously answering the thread, as it's a bit of a daft one... as whoever it was said (Mickey?) these people are probably trouble, and if they wanted to take a piece out of you and you were stupid enough to give them the opportunity to do so... I think that's about it really!

But since there now actually appears to be a serious discussion going... *sigh* ! :D


the Eye poke is always a favoriteI'd never really go for that wing chun biu jee style, but if I'd already worked the position and really felt I needed it I might go for a thumb gouge... can't see it happening though... there are better fight enders if you can work sucha position of superiority anyway.


I do William Chuengs style of Wing chun and ive never learnt this technique, if anything ive stepped on someones foot by accident mid fight and its mega ruined me. I didnt know it was a technique, im taking it you do "Traditional" I learn under Sifu Bruce Corels, Phil Redmond might know him, but yeah... I havnt learnt that as a technique and im Black Sash so hmm who knows.I don't have a black sash... I don't have any sash; I've trained without grading for 9 years and it's served me through biu jee and into the dummy. I don't know if I'm 'traditional' or not! I use kung fu, I don't let it use me! And I guess since I spar and crosstrain in all kinds of stuff, I'm traditional everything!!! ;) There are more lineages under the sun!

I was taught a couple of foot stomps in wing chun: the only one in which I was taught to keep my foot there on was one where you already 'swam' into position (double gaun sao, kao sao or the like) for an underhook or a fuk sao clinch (whilst beating/elbowing/butting on the way of course) so you have upper body control, and you stamp the foot and (left stamp to left foot) and pin it while following up immediately with a roundhouse (yes SHOCK in wing chun too! :eek: ) or a knee stomp if you've crushed his centre already. The success rate was variable. Not a high percentage combo.


Overall body conditioning is whats the difference between life and death in certain situations the ability to be able to take body and head shots without getting totally freaked out and concussed is a ability that will save you BIG TIME.Spot on.

Simon: we're the same height and I love elbows too! ... I was talking about your average untrained geezer who's maybe not so familiar with the beauty of elbows. I don't think they come as naturally to most brawlers as a haymaking swing. One of my regular training partners is 2m and he loves elbows too unfortunately: his are longer than mine! :eek: :D

I can understand, agree and reiterate my scepticism at elbows' damage to the body but you've really never had a knee to the ribs rock you?!

[SimonM]

Well you see I've got some exta padding over my ribs....

No, seriously, I misspoke somewhat. What I meant was that when I have used knee to the ribs on another I've never had someone transition it to a SLT on me.

[Vasquez]

well obviously!!!!

[Yamesk]

Dim Mak would always work. I was thinking you could just punch their armpits. And if you could reach, hit their Adam's Apple. That's assuming you're tall enough. Otherwise he'll grab your fist and get in your face, and go, "RRRRRRRRR!!" and then slam you down.

Anyway like I said before I'm a Shotokan Bum, and yeah I really haven't had much experience, but I'm getting there. Sparring is the next best thing to actually fighting.

[Vasquez]

There are nerve strikes at the shin and ankles that would work as well. You don't have to be tall, big or strong. just accurate.

[cranebeginner]

I'd get my friends to help

[Vasquez]

crane beak strikes makes the difference

[Yamesk]

Okay, I have two ideas that I don't think anybody can really argue with.


1) Use a weapon. If that many people are against you, I'd definitely pick up something to hit with. Anything. Especially a long metal pole of some sort or a brick.

2) Use Dim Mak. I know some of you aren't interested in killing or posting things that could harm people, but come on, if it's your life or their's, I say their's.

[Mr Punch]

Okay, I have two ideas that I don't think anybody can really argue with.


1) Use a weapon. If that many people are against you, I'd definitely pick up something to hit with. Anything. Especially a long metal pole of some sort or a brick.

2) Use Dim Mak. I know some of you aren't interested in killing or posting things that could harm people, but come on, if it's your life or their's, I say their's..Great. Another ****ing troll comedian.
:rolleyes:
1.4

[Yamesk]

...What are you talking about? I was just making a suggestion. :confused:

[SimonM]

Dim Mak is a myth boyo. Some folks get mighty upset when somebody drops those words. Killing a person with your bare hands is a difficult thing to do. It requires you to have significant physical dominance. Yeah, you can choke somebody to death, you can break their neck but neither of these things are easy to do and the easier one (the choke) is very slow. Even if you could control a big guy long enough to permanently shut their breath (in which case you are probably quite skilled and quite fit) the question remains: would you have the chutzpah to watch as a person slowly suffocated in your arms. Dim Mak is a martial arts fairy story; you can't poke someone and expect them to keel over. It doesn't happen any more than flying and fireballs do.

Now I don't think you are a troll. I think you are a kid who is new to martial arts and learning. One part of learning is the shedding of illusions. This is one you should shed.

As for weapons; improvised weapons may work well against an untrained opponent but those guys (from some of the early posts) apparently have a reputation for scrapping. Go against a skilled fighter with a rock in your hand and he will probably just take it away from you.

[Yamesk]

My friend, by all means, I assure you that I am anything but a troll. I was highly interested in this topic because it was discussing how to take down seemingly unstoppable opponents in a real life-threatening situation. I did not come here to "troll" or to get into skirmishes and flame-wars.

I also sincerely thank you for providing the information on Dim Mak. I was misinformed, obviously, and you took the time to provide the correction.

Also if you'd ever like to share your knowledge with me, I'd be very eager to learn your style's methods and techniques, and any training methods you may have to share. Feel free to Private Message me any time.

Back to the subject. How would you take these fighters down, assuming that they had no martial arts skills? Just curious on how you'd approach it.

[Mr Punch]

My sincere apologies if you're sincere! :)

As Simon says, Dim mak is basically BS. That's not to say there haven't been people who were capable of killing someone or knocking them out using specific point strikes, but just that those individuals were very few and far between.

I strongly doubt that most people who say they can do this have anything real to back this up. Search for LMFDC's Chan Tai San thread for some stories of real hardcore CMA fighters and his opinion on dim mak.

As Simon says, the reason is control. In the heat of a fight, you don't have time or the opportunity to control most normal size single opponents, let alone a group of big mofos.

A lot of combinations in a lot of styles will 'accidentally' hit various key nerve points, and/or knock out points. But though they may have been designed to do that, it's rather like the old one-two in boxing... sure one or two punches will sometimes knock someone out, but the boxer is just aiming combos at a general area: if he rings bells that's a bonus. In wing chun (my primary stand-up style) we work some san sik, which are two-person drills working moves from the forms in combination against a semi-resistant partner, and then we take it up to chi sao, and then sparring, and at each level of resistance there is less and less chance that your combo will pay off with a knock-out or fight stopper...

Of course that is what we are aiming for, or at least we are trying to maximise the percentage chance of pulling it off, but there are no certainties in a fight.

So, as I said, sorry if I was a bit harsh, but a lot of people come on the board saying things that they sound like they've got from the movies, and speaking from someone who has literally been kicked unconscious in the street, who has stayed and fought with varying levels of success, who has pulled people apart and faced people with knives, bottles, glasses, stools, pool cues etc, and who has run away many times, if you don't lose that attitude quickly you're going to get ****ed over really quickly if you ever do get into a real situation.

So what would I do?
First as several people have said is; don't be there in the first place. Don't be in theat situation. For most people there is no reason to reach that level of danger.

Second: run. If you don't have anyone around there who's gonna get caught and hurt, run!

Third: There is nothing at all good about multiple attackers. They will probably win. However, a few things hold true: try to keep a wall or something behind you, and try not to get too close to it; try to pick on the biggest, if he goes down the others may back off... or depending on the situation, go for the smallest, the weakest, or the one who looks like he can run fastest, and try and take them out with easy long-range low shots (like attacking the knee), simple low high combos, but importantly don't hang about analysing the results, just a couple of blasts, push him out the way and run like the clappers; of course if you are lucky enough to be near a builders' yard and can pick up a nice smooth strong piece of pipe do so, but again, in reality, you go down to pick something up and you're likely to get boot pie...

If you want combo ideas, as I said, low high usually works well. High (head shots etc) usually need a shorter range, so high low doesn't work so well. Your style (shotokan I'm guessing by your tag) should be able to give you enough ideas, but the tip is, forget specifics and go for general zones. If you are in close and in trouble, I like headbutts. They're hard, heavy, they hurt, and they usually surprise people.

[SimonM]

It's unsurprising that in general I agree with Mat's assessment. Both of us have a background in WC.

However I do have a few other points to add.

1: (AND I SAY THIS FROM EXPERIENCE) Even if you can take a punch. Even if you are tough enough to avoid injury and to shrug off pain when a big slugger lands a bomb on you a big hit can still knock you off your feet. When fighting a group the very last place you want to be is on the ground. So don't get hit if you can avoid it.

2: 9 times out of 10, when facing a larger opponent, close range is your friend. The tenth time you face a freak like me who enjoys smashing things with elbow, knee and forehead and who likes Shuai Jiao. Don't go for the long range techniques. Bridge fast and go into very close range as fast as you can. Keeping with the low-high suggestions of Mat knee to the balls followed immediately by headbutt to the nose may serve you well. It's quick, unexpected and vicious. Remember to keep the heat on as you don't want to let a bigger opponent, especially one with backup, take the initiative.

3: I don't generally run away from trouble. Quite frankly the chances are that trouble runs faster than I do. So I developed another strategy. It's called being friendly. You wouldn't believe how many times polite self confidence has averted a threat situation for me. The very best fight is the one that does not happen. Big thugs are not generally mad-dogs who will kill anyone they see just for ****s and giggles. They are, however, people who enjoy being an intimidator while often simultaneously despising "weakness". Being able to be friendly and relaxed around them can lead you to having a posse to back YOU up as opposed to an enemy who packs heat. Which would you prefer?

[Yamesk]

I really don't think that there is anybody that can provide much better advice seeing as you and Mat have covered just about every possible angle of this situation! I'll take that to heart.

I've also heard it's best to stay out of a straight line between attackers. For instance, if two guys are on either side of you, try to get yourself out of that position and in a position where they are both in front of you.

Does this make sense? I heard this from a friend of mine in Ishinryu Karate. I probably didn't word it as good as he could though.

[Mr Punch]

1:Yep.
2: 9 times out of 10, when facing a larger opponent, close range is your friend... Bridge fast and go into very close range as fast as you can. True. I was recommending the low long range shot as the quickest way to make contact and get the bridge. You don't want to try to keep a bigger guy at long range, cos they'll have the reach advantage. Tho at the same time low kicks should work well whether you're trying to establish a connection or just to shock attack (although close range is your friend, I'm still thinking it's better to run away), because in my experience (although I'M not saying all big guys are like this) most big guys are not so good at quickly shifting their weight to avoid low kicks.
3: I don't generally run away from trouble. Quite frankly the chances are that trouble runs faster than I do.I was my school champ at 100, 200, 400 and 800 metres, and can push out a good 1500 and 10000 too! They better not have a car! :D
So I developed another strategy. It's called being friendly. Sure. And that's back to my first point: don't be there... if you're there physically, the politeness and humour can get you out of their 'bad place'! Exceot when they're on smack, then they'll just roll over you, or on crack, when they'll laugh with you, then roll over you! :eek:
I've also heard it's best to stay out of a straight line between attackers. For instance, if two guys are on either side of you, try to get yourself out of that position and in a position where they are both in front of youOf course. If you get attacked by movie villains they'll line up for you, so you can hit them one after another, and wait till your ready! :D But on serious note, if you do get the movie position of one of them being too close to another, sometimes it doesn't need a fancy combo to clear some space: just a quick shove.

[SimonM]

I suddenly have an image of the multi-fight between the kicks master and the axe gang from Kung Fu Hustle... ;)

Mat is right about the "don't be there" part. I've found that you often have to go looking for trouble if you want to find it. If you don't want trouble it's not usually a problem.

I do like to lead in with a low roundhouse when I want to close the gap. It will draw the opponent's attention down and open up their face a bit and if you get lucky you can do some harm to their knee; an added bonus.

[imperialtaichi]

In my opinion, this is what differentiates just a hard azz fighter to a true warrior.

No matter how good a fighter you are, you can only defeat someone who is weaker, slower, or less skillful than yourself...

But if one studies and apply well all the strategies you learn from Martial Arts and texts like Sun's Art of War, writings by Yagyu Munenori, I-Ching then although you may not be as good physically as a fighter, you may still get out alive. May be you bluff your way out, completely turn your enemy into your buddy, or just cheat a little. In the bigger scheme of things you are still a winner. This, in my opinion, is the mark of a true warrior.

Even the great Miyamoto Musashi did not fight fair with all his fights... :)

Cheers,
John

[SimonM]

Read the Odyssey.

Odyssius is DA MAN. There is a reason he got home from Troy when Achilles did not. There is a reason why he got his wife back when Agamemnon got killed by his.

[paradoxbox]

I'm not sure I agree that a choke is slow. A good choke puts you out in a few seconds and will kill you in less than 20 if it's done hard.

A windpipe choke will kill you the moment it's applied, technically. If your windpipe is crushed and you're then pushed down and left for dead, what exactly are you going to do? Hope you have a bic pen and a scalpel handy.

As far as taking on any one of those brutes? I would avoid them in the first place. If I had to fight them I would want to run them all over with my car first, use an automatic weapon if a car was unavailable, or stab their temples, carotid or femoral arteries with a large tactical knife (something like a hissatsu knife) in a first strike type situation.

If you are in a fight with guys like that and they are packing guns, you my friend are an idiot for being anywhere near there, and you'd better be ready to let the bodies hit the floor.

If you have any fantasy of taking on 6 guys of that size all by yourself, forget it unless you have a big fast gun and you open fire first. There's no chance in hell you can ever take them all out unless they are separated and you strike first, i.e. walk up behind and stab their neck. But that's just murder not self defence.

[SimonM]

Ever choked someone to submission?

No? Didn't think so.

I have.

[paradoxbox]

I have, many times. It's a regular occurance in Japanese arts both new and old.

There are a few publicized incidents in which judoka (in particular a french judoka) have been killed by chokes. The french judoka was choked out to death, and had to be brought back to life by people skilled in revival.

Chokes work great on everyone especially on the ground when you are in full control. Not a great choice standing up as you can easily be thrown from most standard choke positions while standing.

[Scott R. Brown]

It isn't the choke that takes time, it is getting it set while you are being struggled against that takes the time!.


Once you get it set properly, it takes seconds to conclude the deal! :D

[SimonM]

As far as I am concerned setting a choke is part and parcel with choking someone. If You haven't been able to clinch down on the throat because the guy tucked his chin and is now making your life miserable as he thrashes and writhes around you are still in the process of choking him.

[Scott R. Brown]

I agree with you Simmon.

I was merely trying to draw the distinction between how you are thinking about it how paradoxbox must be thinking about it. The only way to consider a choke quickly is the manner in which i have described it i think!!;)

[imperialtaichi]

This was how one of my friend, who was in a Chinese gang, handled a much stronger, tougher, meaner Vietnames gang....

Step 1: Set up a date, time, place for the gang war. Make sure the Viet Gang knows the Ching Gang was bringing weapons.

Step 2: Don't turn up, wait till the Viet Gang was all there, call the cops.

Step 3: Watch as all the Viet Gang was arrested for carrying prohibited weapons.

Step 4: Wait around the corner of the police station.

Step 5: As the Viet Gang members was released one by one, ambushed them 15 to one with baseball bats and beat them to a pulp one by one.

Step 6: Repeat Step 5 until all of them were beaten up.

I thought it was pretty smart, kind of funny too.


Cheers,
John

[paradoxbox]

The only way to consider a choke quickly is the manner in which i have described it i think!!;)

I'm afraid you did not understand my post (I indicated chokes only work well when in full control, almost always on the ground, does this not indicate I believe it is a finishing move?).

Let it be known that I consider chokes to be a finisher and not a starter. There are many better moves that work faster that will incapacitate someone even of such strength and stature. But a choke on the ground will make sure they can not get back up again to cause you harm.

I imagine you both have some experience with chokes so you should know that anyone unfamiliar with such chokes has little chance of escaping once you are controlling them and apply it.

[SimonM]

Remember that this topic is not about fighting unskilled opponents. The men who were the subject of this thread have a reputation for fighting. So it is dangerous to assume that they would open up and allow you to toss in a choke unmolested.

[SanSoo Student]

Why not get them all high on weed, and then beat them up when there blazed. Being high takes away their coordination and aggressive drive.

[SimonM]

Not always true. The Chronic sometimes gets people energised too.

[paradoxbox]

Experienced in street fighting or experienced in martial arts? Being good at throwing hard haymakers and sucker punching, being able to take punches or worse, is a far cry from being able to escape from a fast throw or a leg lock, being aware someone is about to stab them in the brain etc..

Only reason I can ever envision a person getting into a fight with those people is in a competition fight or you've been sent as a hitman to take them out, there's no legitimate reason to be hanging around people like that.

[SimonM]

Martial arts came from two sources:

1: Shamanistic Ritual.

2: People who surived down and dirty brawls codifying how they did it.

Underestimating an opponent is the #1 way for a skilled fighter to lose a fight. I try to never do this. Just because a guy isn't a 7th dan black belt just because the guy doesn't call himself "master" doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to fight. I don't know the skills of these men. I don't know if they are trained. I don't know if they have survived a hundred bar brawls. I don't know if they have survived knife and chain attacks. But to assume: "that guy is a pushover because he isn't wearing a gi" is a huge mistake.

For all I know these guys could be really nice guys underneath the gatts and tatts. I mean I have met guys like that who are really OK guys once you get to know them. Or they could be total *****s. I just don't know. Likewise I don't know how skilled or unskilled they are. In this case I am going to assume the worst and figure that they have the skills necessary to counter fancy techniques and I am going to rely on high-success rate techniques.

They are called bread and butter for a reason.

[paradoxbox]

Underestimating is one thing, being realistic is another.

How much you want to bet none of those guys do taijiquan?

get my drift?

anyway this is getting side tracked,

how do you fight guys like that? first strike or hit them with a large weapon. like a mack truck.

[SimonM]

I'm not knocking Taijiquan... Hell! I'm studying it right now! But believe it or not you don't need to know Taiji to be a good fighter.

[viper]

man i dont wanna fight ne guys that alex sovsauh or wateva hes a machine.i would [prob get his help takin out the otha somaons nothin against them im riends wit some soamons and therer kool guys but forced to fight. all sorts of dirty things comin out no punch all kill destruction moves thats really wat id be thinkn and move fast to get away its not lik a match fite u cant get away so get away.thats the point of self defence that guy at the start sounds lik my bro whos also 16 think they can fite the world one handed ma or no ma think wit ur head not ur nuts iv had friends put in hosiptal and stuff lik that coz they had the same mentality peace not war

[SimonM]

Ayah!

Viper please learn how to spell! I have seen compositions by freshman ESL students that were more legible.

[Cobra Commander]

For those in CALIFORNIA. Do any of you remember that America's Most Wanted clip???

It was about the Wah Ching street gang member chasing some guy from Asian Boyz in a Los Angeles billiard and shooting him to death.

The Asian Boyz member is first seen near the door of the billiard trying to wrestle the gun outta the Wah Ching members hand. It didn't work. The WC member chases the Asian Boyz member and shoots him to death. 2 shots to the head as he lay on the ground trying to cover under a pool table.

It is not as easy at it always seems huh?

Seen this clip anyone?