Sword help?

[Rokto_Obotar]

What is the difference between a Bokken Natural Wood Kendo
and a BOKKEN BOKEN sword.
Im looking to buy one of these for sword practice before i get a real katana.

[IronFist]

A bokken is usually a one piece wooden katana with a plastic hand guard and looks like this (http://www.karatedepot.com/wp-ke-06.html).

A Kendo sword is usually called a "shinai" and looks like this (http://www.karatedepot.com/wp-ke-03.html).

Shinai can probably be hit together without breaking due to the nature of kendo. Bokken probably won't last if you hit them together, unless you get special expensive ones.

[Rokto_Obotar]

Thank you very much this helps alot!!

[Mikkyou]

Since the question was already answered between a Shinai and a Bokken
the real question is what are you going to do with it??
I highly suggest a Bokken because it allows for proper grip,proper excution of technique and proper stances.I do not use the Shinai to much I rather use a Bokken because of the shape however it is easy to fall into bad habits because a Bokken does not weigh much compared to an actual Shinken.

[Rokto_Obotar]

well im trying to find a local kung fu academy (a good one see my other post to help me out ;)) one that teaches the sword art along with the other style i would like to learn. I was also going to use it for the shotokanand kung fu I take presently (katas, drills, ect...). basic sword training nothing advanced yet like I said I want to become acustomed to the movements and sword before I buy "TRUE JAPANESE STEEL".

[Mr Punch]

Iron, I've used bokken of various shapes, sizes and costs for 15 years, and in full contact striking I've only heard of one breaking outright. Usually they take a lot of damage and you can easily hear the difference in one which has reached a dangerous state: it becomes a dull thud as opposed to the nice reverberating 'tok' or 'bok' sound you get from a healthy one.

Then you just retire it and buy a new one, or as my friends have done, cut it down and make it into a wooden tanto, or just use it for kata.

In fact, the one I used longest was a cheap warped one. I think the wood-strength variation is more to do with how well you know your wood. Dense grain lengthways is better, and few knots.

Cheap bamboo shinai on the other hand, often break, and can be very dangerous because of the splinters. In practice I usually use a carbon fibre one, and only use bamboo in shiai, because the sound is different and the judges easily recognize the sound of a good clean hit with bamboo and necessarily one with carbon fibre. In the UK I couldn't find a carbon fibre one, but over here they're common enough. They can be about ten times the price of bamboo though.

Mikkyou is correct. The use is important.

Actually the shinai and kendo gloves together are supposed to be the same weight as a shinken (real sword), but the feeling is completely different. With a real sword there is more of a balance, and the more weight in the front than with a shinai. A shinai is designed for fast, shallow whippy strikes so the weight is in the part nearest the hands (or in the gloves).

So basically, the shinai is only really useful for practising kendo.

If you are into Dog Brothers style fighting, shinai may be OK to represent any weak, light stick you could find in the street, but again, watch for it breaking. Bamboo splinters cut deeply and can kill you, especially from blood poisoning as they are sometimes very difficult to detect and very difficult to get out of a wound.

The weighting on bokken is more like a shinken, but it's still too light.

For kata, for building the muscles and energy, I would recommend one of these... (http://www.karatedepot.com/wp-sw-97.html). It's called a suburito, or suburi bokken, and is the same weight as a shinken. Some of them are a little heavier. It's a lovely feeling. You can use them in paired practice but it's pretty dangerous until you have good control. Plus you'll need to construct a tsuba (thumb guard) as they don't come with the suburito.

Usually they have a slightly too wide hilt end (tsuka) so I recommend sanding it down, otherwise it'll affect the way you practise your grip.

I will say be careful with the suburito until you are used to it. It's very easy to stress your elbows by over-extending with a weight like that one the end of your arm. Over here, it's called 'kendo elbow'! You can get it anyway, but the chances increase with the weight of course.

Two ways to avoid kendo elbow are:

1) do a lot of repetition of the basic 'sword wringing' technique, which brings your elbows in and twists your wrists around the hilt.

2) do a lot of gentle practice swings just using your little finger to grip with. This will hurt, and at first will improve your grip strength and foream strength, but also your endurance. Make sure your stretch and bend your fingers after this to avoid tendonitis or other RSIs.

Happy training!

[Mr Punch]

well im trying to find a local kung fu academy (a good one see my other post to help me out ;)) one that teaches the sword art along with the other style i would like to learn. I was also going to use it for the shotokanand kung fu I take presently (katas, drills, ect...). basic sword training nothing advanced yet like I said I want to become acustomed to the movements and sword before I buy "TRUE JAPANESE STEEL".Crosspost...

Ah, so if you're just messing about till you find some good instruction I still recommend going slowly with a suburito. If you can't trust yourself to go slowly, use a bokken.

Personally I wouldn't bother unless you're going to do a specific Japanese sword art. It's very different to the Chinese arts, and if you're just into it for fighting, a simple stick of various sizes would be better for you than limiting yourself to a 'one-end stick'!

[IronFist]

Yeah, the reviews on that site said the bokken was pretty strong, but you never know what the people writing the reviews are actually doing with their bokken.

[Rokto_Obotar]

Well I did find a local school im going to check out I talked to them and they said they use several different types of swords and can teach with any of them. Im looking at the suburito and was wondering mat what you ment by sanding it down? I have very large hands if you mean its got a thick handle, I believe I could grip it:

"Usually they have a slightly too wide hilt end (tsuka) so I recommend sanding it down, otherwise it'll affect the way you practise your grip."

also do you mean grip it with only my four fingers without my thumb?

"2) do a lot of gentle practice swings just using your little finger to grip with. This will hurt, and at first will improve your grip strength and foream strength, but also your endurance. Make sure your stretch and bend your fingers after this to avoid tendonitis or other RSIs."

Also can you tell me the difference, advantages and disadvantages of the Chinese Swordmanship and the Japanese Swordmanship?

[Mr Punch]

By sand it down, I mean rub it with some abrasive paper. There are two reasons to do this: one because a lot of people find the varnish on these things too sticky or too slidey, and just prefer the natural wood (it IS easier to grip that way).

The other, not necessarily because of the size, but more that the handle is usually flared (tapered towards the tsuba). I don't really know why, and it means that the grip will be very different between the right and left hands. In Japanese swordsmanship, the left hand is the power hand and the right is for guidance... the grip with the left is very important (of course it is with the right too but...), and most styles employ a grip that engages the little finger very tightly and the other fingers progressively more lightly. You cannot curl the left hand in the right way with a hilt which is tapered in that way.

As to the difference between Japanese and Chinese swordsmanship, I don't know enough Chinese to comment.