Interested in amateur mma competitions

[negativecr33p]

So do you guys think that I should continue my wing chun training? (Only six months into it, coming from a tang soo do back ground) My ultimate goal is to compete in amatuer mma competitions... I don't expect to be anything special just compete. Anyway, I'm definitely going to need to take muay thai atleast a little bit for experience fighting full contact...going to start brazillian jiu jitsu tomorrow. But do you guys think wing chun would translate well into MMA or not? I'd ask at more MMA/kickboxing oriented sites, but I know they're answer would be "wc is teh sux".

Basicly I'm wondering if I'm better off just simply switching to muay thai for such purposes or if wing chun would supplement it well.

[Fajing]

I would think that Wing Chun and BJJ would make a killer combo. Hell, you could throw Muay Tai in there as well if you wanted. I guess you could mix as many as you like. Anyway, yeah, I would think that Wing Chun would do great mixed with BJJ for MMA events. Tang Soo Do????? Isn't that pretty much like Tae Kwon Do? I would dump that one, in all honesty. Not sure how practical it is. :confused:

[negativecr33p]

I'm not actively taking tang soo do lessons. I'm trying to figure out what would be worth my time to take, for my purposes. And yes, tang soo do is taekwondo, just one of the original names for it basicly. Slight differances. I'm sure here and there a higher round kick may come in handy. I doubt any of my tsd kicks will be fast enough to really be effective. Took a long break from MA. If I'd been practicing it since I was twelve I might be able to pull off a side kick or two every once in awhile...

[nojack]

If you just want to compete in takedown MMA competiton one on one inside the ring, in my opinion BJJ or Japanese JJ is good enough, just be proficient in one style. cause 9/10 out of 10 times, the fight is end up on the ground anyway, why border to be a MMA . But if it is for the street fight that's another story.

That's my take.

[negativecr33p]

Nah, you need to know a striking art. It may end up on the ground, but even 6 punches, 2 or 3 from each person, before the fight goes to ground, can make a differance on what happens there.

[eadragon21]

Hey negative-

First of all, best of luck in your road to mma competition. That's certainly not something I'm interested in, and I admire those who want to do that. With that being said, I would agree that a wing chun/bjj combo training would be very good. I know there are lineages out there who are doing that and competing quite successfully. My teacher was an early student of Didier Beddar over in Paris. Their school has started with the cross training in bjj and have done quite well with it, some of those guys were great to begin with and now that they have a much better understanding of the ground game it has made them that much better fighters. BJJ or at leat learning good takedowns and takedown defenses are next on my personal training schedule, I just need to find a good school in my area or teacher. I would just throw out a word of caution though, be careful you don't fall into the "jack of all trades master of nothing" scenario.

Good luck with the training!

[negativecr33p]

Kung fu fighter, grats on the win. Good to hear wing chunners are winning somewhere. We take to much flak because of poor representatives/lack of fighters. I'm in raleigh nc, I'm guessing you're in canada?? Just out of curiousity, was the fight video taped? I'd love to see wing chun in real deal action, and winning.

[anerlich]

NC,

IMO the best bet is to go to someone who has a stable of MMA fighters who are doing well already.

While I'd say BJJ is almost indispensable, you need someone who understands, not only striking as well, but how to integrate striking, clinch, and groundwork, and defense as well as attack in all three areas. Vale Tudo. Vale Tudo and MMA are very different from straight BJJ or submission grappling competition, and also from San Shou and striking only competitions.

If your mission is to introduce WC into MMA successfully, that's great, but it WILL be a lot harder than just following the directions of a coach who has already had MMA success.

Trying to integrate WC and BJJ for a total game is something I find as confusing as hell, after 16 years of TWC and 5 years of BJJ. Integrating them is almost like learning a third martial art from scratch.

Frank Benn, an intelligent and MA-experienced poster from about ten years ago on rec.m-a, had it that boxing and MT are far easier MAs to integrate with wrestling or BJJ than most Asian MA's. His is but one opinion, but it's wiser than most IMO.

[Edmund]

creep,

I think you're on the right idea. You've really got to get more sparring experience from somewhere since your WC teacher doesn't do any. I'd recommend Muay Thai because the standup striking techniques are very similar to those used in MMA.

[negativecr33p]

My goal isn't so much to introduce wing chun into MMA. If it happens that what I'm learning in wing chun translates well into full contact fighting, I'll continue to train it. If not, I will probobly drop it. I've found a decent gym nearby, with muay thai/brazillian jiu jitsu. Interestlingly, they also have wing chun classes. Then again, they have hapkido and taekwondo.

Anyway, I asked one of the instructors about muay thai and brazillian jiu jitsu, he told me most people only take one or the other and then cross train for competitions. So right now I'm looking at doing the brazillian jiu jitsu, and wc. I'll take mt every 2-3 months, for 2-3 months on top of that.

I'd really like to see some GOOD full contact sparring with wing chun. Everything I've ever seen, turns into a sloppy chain punching exchange. The punches obviously have no power, and it looks like a sloppy slap fight or something.

Now no full contact fight ever looks pretty. But come on, this stuff I've seen on the internet of wing chun guys fighting is just rediculous. Keep in mind, I'm not putting ANYONE down. Many of them could probobly chain punch the **** out of me. I'm just seriously doubting wether it would actually hold up against an equally skilled, say muay thai guy. I've yet to see a video on that. I guess I'll be finding out eventually. Heh.

[Edmund]

I'm just seriously doubting wether it would actually hold up against an equally skilled, say muay thai guy. I've yet to see a video on that.

Do a search on the forum, creep.
I vaguely recall a lot of clips from Europe including a few MT vs WT.
They may still have links around.

Thinking back, they pretty much hit with the same amount of power as the MT people esp. in terms of punches. The clips I remember had the WT people winning so they may even have hit a touch harder :).

They weren't the greatest kickers or grapplers but it didn't end up making much difference.

[Jason Martell]

I'm not actively taking tang soo do lessons. I'm trying to figure out what would be worth my time to take, for my purposes. And yes, tang soo do is taekwondo, just one of the original names for it basicly. Slight differances. I'm sure here and there a higher round kick may come in handy. I doubt any of my tsd kicks will be fast enough to really be effective. Took a long break from MA. If I'd been practicing it since I was twelve I might be able to pull off a side kick or two every once in awhile...


i tend to think side kicks don't work that great, if done with power it's impossible to land, if you skip up to the person with your leg in the air before throwing the kick it's like incredibly easy for them to grab your leg. Even though a side kick is like one of the most powerful kicks. I know a lot of people, where if they kicked you like that at full power, you wouldn't survive, I'm not exagerating it would actually kill a person.

[negativecr33p]

That's what I mean. If I had been actively practicing those kicks from the time I was 12 (I was VERY good then, for a 12 year old) my side kick would seriously hurt someone. Of course they could just dodge it. But under the right circumstances, someone back pedaling to get out of range, it could be very deadly. I mean look at bruce lee when he side kicked the heavy bag. Thing folded in half. And it was a ****ed fast kick. People who can kick like that I'm sure could integrate that into full contact. Hell at the worst, throwing some kicks is gonna keep your opponent guessing. Some of these guys who want to go to the ground in UFC, when you see em lay on their backs and try to pull guard, I wonder why they don't throw a kick and let it get caught, or slip, or do something to appear as though they went there by accident...

[namron]

Hey negative-

First of all, best of luck in your road to mma competition. That's certainly not something I'm interested in, and I admire those who want to do that. With that being said, I would agree that a wing chun/bjj combo training would be very good. I know there are lineages out there who are doing that and competing quite successfully. My teacher was an early student of Didier Beddar over in Paris. Their school has started with the cross training in bjj and have done quite well with it, some of those guys were great to begin with and now that they have a much better understanding of the ground game it has made them that much better fighters. BJJ or at leat learning good takedowns and takedown defenses are next on my personal training schedule, I just need to find a good school in my area or teacher. I would just throw out a word of caution though, be careful you don't fall into the "jack of all trades master of nothing" scenario.

Good luck with the training!

Didier Beddar came over to Melb a couple of years ago and ran a good seminar covering a good deal of basic groundwork and controls/takedowns. I still have the video of the session and practice the new set of tools he bought to the floor.

I would recommend his stuff anytime.

[whitefox]

Hi negativecr33p,

I Won the Canadian heavyweight San Shou (full contact) championship using my wing chun skills, but I also trained with some top muai thai and brazillain jujitsu fighters to better understand the application of my wing chun theory under this invironment and rules.

Kung fu fighter


When you say trained in BJJ and MT do you mean that you trained in them in order to better utilize your WC against these and other arts?

If so then I agree in your approach. IMHO I don't feel that an person has to "add" to their WC to be effective against other arts. However I do believe it is a good idea to "mix it up" with other people/arts when the opportunity arises.

[negativecr33p]

When you say trained in BJJ and MT do you mean that you trained in them in order to better utilize your WC against these and other arts?

If so then I agree in your approach. IMHO I don't feel that an person has to "add" to their WC to be effective against other arts. However I do believe it is a good idea to "mix it up" with other people/arts when the opportunity arises.


Is this your opinion from fighting muay thai fighters? or seing wing chun guys fight mt? Just curious. I've been trying to find wing chunners beating up may thai guys. I'd love to see it.

[kung fu fighter]

When you say trained in BJJ and MT do you mean that you trained in them in order to better utilize your WC against these and other arts?

If so then I agree in your approach. IMHO I don't feel that an person has to "add" to their WC to be effective against other arts. However I do believe it is a good idea to "mix it up" with other people/arts when the opportunity arises.

Yes, I worked with, as well as faught against thaiboxers and grapplers in order to understand their tactics and strategies and how I could better utilize my wing chun's theories in application. One of my training partners fights in the K1 event in vagas. I am thankful to everyone of my training partners because they helped to bring out the very best in me as a wing chun fighter, I have learned excellent fighting theories/principles from my wing chun sifu, but deeper understanding of applications of the wing chun system training with these people than in any wing chun school. I think the two types of training should go hand in hand because the compliment each other (yin/yang). Alot of times in many wing chun schools people just go through the wing chun techniques, but the applications of them contradicts the the systems theories and principles. By doing this I was able to grasp a Deeper understanding of how wing chun theories work. Which is what makes the system truely simple, there have been many scientific studies of the brain that proves complicated movements delay reaction time, and under duress people loose their fine motor skills which are used to carry out these complicated types of actions. I strongly believe in Sun Szu art of war strategies. Such as knowing one's self as well as the opponent you will be victorious everytime. I think at the highter level all kung fu contain Sun Szu's art of war strategies, since they are universal principles.
The opponent is just a reflection in the mirror of one's self, after all he is just another human being with the same capabilities and weaknesses.

Kung fu fighter

[whitefox]

:) Good post KFF. thanks for sharing.

[lawrenceofidaho]

I have learned excellent fighting theories/principles from my wing chun sifu, but deeper understanding of applications of the wing chun system training with these people than in any wing chun school.
This has been my experience as well.

Thank you for your post. I found it very insightful.......

-Lawrence