NAPMA: Good or Bad?

[rogue]

Oso's favorite support group.

So what's anyones experience or impressions about NAPMA?


Q:What new turn-key program would you like to see NAPMA create?
A birthday start-up kit for hosting parties.
A summer marketing and retention program.
An escrima program.

[IronFist]

wtf is NAPMA?

[Akhilleus]

National Association of Professional Martial Artists...

The school I teach was a part of it (before I joined), in fact our owner was pretty well known among the group, but now we are with the EFC (Educational Funding Company)...

My only experience with them is seeing their video tapes, which are great...good class ideas and tips for running a successful school...so from what I have seen they are a great org...

[Oso]

ok, so I get both the free mags from Century (who now owns NAPMA) and the one from MAIA...don't know how i ended up that one....

but the Nov 2004 issue that is sitting in the top of the trash can next to my desk has the main article titled "Teaching "Life" Arts versus Martial Arts"

need I ****ing say more?


so....BAD...PART OF THE 'PROBLEM'....



:D

[Oso]

btw, Rogue, I may have to make a trip up your way...I'll holler if I do.

[Akhilleus]

need I ****ing say more?

Yes, please...not trying to be a smart@$$...just curious what it was about the article that you thought was trash...Although I haven't read the article, I would say that helping people develop life skills is a big part of running a successful martial arts school...

LOL I don't know what happened with that email link...

[rogue]

Sounds good Oso.

I find the occaisional NAPMA rags at the gym. On one hand I understand the school owners need to make money and I support that, but I still feel like I have to wash my hands after reading the articles.

[Oso]

when the martial aspect is completely set aside.

everything that these organizations are promoting is to make the school owner rich by providing a 'feel good' environment versus teaching real martial skills.

whatever happenend to 'eat bitter' ???


the title itself implies that 'martial' arts are being set aside in favor of 'life' arts.


yet another step in the removal of traditional martial arts.


I get these magazines every month, and month after month they are full of articles on how to grow your business...with no mention on how to teach better martial arts.

sorry, if I offended you and I wasn't picking on that article itself...just the way the industry is turning and how it is dumbing down martial arts in america.




rogue: subtle troll there buddy...now will you snip this hook outta my mouth???? ;)

[rogue]

It's my new snake style troll. Very subtle. :D


the title itself implies that 'martial' arts are being set aside in favor of 'life' arts. I think you're right. IMO down playing the martial aspect of the arts is dangerous because it gives the person a false sense of security and also because they lose focus on how dangerous the arts can be.

[Akhilleus]

No offense taken man, I have felt embarrassed sometimes while watching NAPMA vids, some of the stuff just seems so cheesy...but on the whole I really like their videos, and 90% of the time I think they are great stuff, with of course the other 10% making me say, "People actually pay to learn this stuff?!"

I agree that the martial aspect should not be cast aside, rather it should be embraced, and the life skills and martial skills should go hand in hand...


everything that these organizations are promoting is to make the school owner rich by providing a 'feel good' environment versus teaching real martial skills.

Food for thought, is it possible to do both?

Maybe NAPMA is assuming that the school owner has their act together as far as teaching the martial aspects of their art and therefore focuses on helping them teach that material in a way that allows their school to be successful...

More food for thought: for some, such as myself, MA training actually has little to do with self-defense...I'm not saying it has nothing to do with it, just that self-defense isn't my main reason for training...if it were I would get a gun and learn how to use it...actual self-defense techniques would help very little if 3 of the guy's friends jump out of the alley and it wouldn't help at all if he pulled a gun on me...so if there aren't any life skills behind my training that training wouldn't be very meaningful to me...


yet another step in the removal of traditional martial arts

I don't know man, what you see as the dumbing down of the industry I see as trying to find effective ways of teaching the traditional arts to modern people...we live in a different society than that of our teacher's teacher's teacher...George W Bush with his 150 something bench press could pick up a phone and wipe a country off the face of the earth...OK maybe that's an exaggeration but my point is I don't think most people take up martial arts with self defense as their number one goal...I do agree however that it is important to retain the martial aspects of the arts or else it is harder to instill those life skills in one's students...

[Mutant]

NAPMA? Arent they like the same kind of organization as NAMBLA? :eek:
:confused:

[Oso]

No offense taken man, I have felt embarrassed sometimes while watching NAPMA vids, some of the stuff just seems so cheesy...but on the whole I really like their videos, and 90% of the time I think they are great stuff, with of course the other 10% making me say, "People actually pay to learn this stuff?!"

I agree that the martial aspect should not be cast aside, rather it should be embraced, and the life skills and martial skills should go hand in hand...

exactly...that's how it should be.

the way it was passed to me by my first teacher is that you have a responsibility as a martial artist to be a good person and that the lessons you learn while learning some bad ass skills are transferable to your everyday life.


Food for thought, is it possible to do both?

Absolutely. That's my goal. But, just looking at the samples I've run across in my 23 years of training I see that it's just not happening most of the time.

Maybe NAPMA is assuming that the school owner has their act together as far as teaching the martial aspects of their art and therefore focuses on helping them teach that material in a way that allows their school to be successful...

c'mon...I don't believe you really think that. The only thing NAPMA checks is 'availibility of funds' with the bank when they get the check from someone. It would be a nice assumption but the martial arts industry is unregulated so any half trained half wit can open a school.

More food for thought: for some, such as myself, MA training actually has little to do with self-defense...I'm not saying it has nothing to do with it, just that self-defense isn't my main reason for training...if it were I would get a gun and learn how to use it...actual self-defense techniques would help very little if 3 of the guy's friends jump out of the alley and it wouldn't help at all if he pulled a gun on me...so if there aren't any life skills behind my training that training wouldn't be very meaningful to me...

well, that's great and I won't ever knock anyone's reasons for training. I'm trying to adapt my methods of teaching to accomadate anyone who walks into my school. but there is essentially a lot of lying and half truths going on in the industry



I don't know man, what you see as the dumbing down of the industry I see as trying to find effective ways of teaching the traditional arts to modern people...

IF that were really what the goal was then that would be cool....but 'traditional' arts meant fighting arts....evolution and modernization is fine, I'm all for that. But the martial arts is being turned into something else completely these days. Anyone could learn how to play baseball, or learn to dance and still gain the same life skills that these uber commercial skills are purporting to grant you for $150 a month.

we live in a different society than that of our teacher's teacher's teacher...George W Bush with his 150 something bench press could pick up a phone and wipe a country off the face of the earth...OK maybe that's an exaggeration but my point is I don't think most people take up martial arts with self defense as their number one goal...I do agree however that it is important to retain the martial aspects of the arts or else it is harder to instill those life skills in one's students...

right, again the martial training is what imparts the life skills.

[rogue]

I don't know man, what you see as the dumbing down of the industry I see as trying to find effective ways of teaching the traditional arts to modern people.

But I have a problem with this kind of thing.

Q:What new turn-key program would you like to see NAPMA create?
A birthday start-up kit for hosting parties.
A summer marketing and retention program.
An escrima program.

To create a watered down escrima program and lump it in with hosting birthday parties says something about where their heads are at. And now there's a entire industry of martial arts ad-ons to wring a little more money out of the students. Most of these are self defense with a catchy arconym for a name. The issue I have with them is that I thought self defense was supposed to be part of the martial art I'm taking. I meant "life" art that I'm taking.

I know some really good school owners who are NAPMA members so I'm not saying if you have a NAPMA sticker on your door you're a McDojo.

[Oso]

yea, a buddy of mine runs a good school while using some of the NAPMA material for marketing. they train hard and everyone I've ever seen there has the desire and ability to really spar....even one 50+ year old woman with arthritis who didn't think twice about whacking me in the nuts as I stood there underestimating her after 'hajime' was called. :o :p ;)

[TonyM.]

Mutant stole my thunder.

[Oso]

FTR, I do pay attention and take notes on some of their articles on kids.

the younger the kid the more it is just play for them and the best you can do is get some basic motor skills instilled and then maybe when they are 8 or so you can start getting some real martial skills going.

[Akhilleus]

Oso,
It sounds like we agree on most of the fundamental and ethical issues involved here...the thing is I've been so focused on doing my own thing lately that I haven't really seen too much questionable actions/BS that bothered me...marketing "world champions" and such can be misleading at times but these kind of marketing tactics aren't really necessary to have a successful school and oftentimes said schools are not successful so I don't really mind if they indulge themselves...

You suggested that MA in America doesn't offer any benefits that other sports don't offer...to which I offer two points for consideration:

1. The benefits that some sports may provide are immeasurable and well worth what the average student pays for karate/MA classes...for example, baseball may give an otherwise estranged father and son a reason to talk and play together...my point is that if we say karate = baseball we can say that karate = priceless

but let's look at it from another point of view...

2. As a former karate kid and little leaguer, I can say from experience that karate is about your parents giving you a hug b/c you broke a board and earned a new belt...baseball/basketball are sometimes about your parents treating you like you are worthless b/c you struck out or made a bad pass...I'm not saying this is always the case, just that it was for me...I will leave it up to you to decide which helped my confidence more and helped make me a better person...

[Oso]

I agree with #1. Anything that can make a family unit tighter is worth whatever you have to do to make it so.


and I agree w/ #2 ... I've seen some parental responses to losses and such that make me want to just beat the living **** out of a dad...and some mom's. But I've seen that in martial tournaments as well when a kid screwed up. So, I'm not sure that, in my experience, I can say that the difference is the sport or the parent.

i think we're on the same page...just looking through slightly different prescriptions, that's all.... :D

[David Jamieson]

I hate the walmart approach to martial arts.

As for "life" arts, sh1t man, doesn't everyone get oprah? lol

I wonder what it is that qualifies a ma instructor by virtue of being an ma instructor to teach life skills?

anyhow, that stuff gets deleted faster than a bush servant who's seen too much. :p

[Akhilleus]

Kewl...now I just can't decide what's more pathetic, parents that take their kids' sports too seriously or the fact that one of my points was based on some quotes from the movies Field of Dreams and City Slickers...

"Dad...you want to have a catch?"

-Kevin Costner, Field of Dreams


"...when I was about 18 and my dad and I couldn't communicate about anything at all, we could still talk about baseball. Now that - that was real."

-Daniel Stern, City Slickers