IKF article on Mantis Conference

[Oso]

On newstands now.

[shirkers1]

I don't know.... but by the look of those pics I'd say a mantis practitioner calendar series needs to be made.. Those are some attractive cats... :D

all jokes aside

Cool write up gracing 3 pages and full of pics. :) Great job guys.

[Metal Mantis]

It is rather unfortunate that they decided to put the group photo right smack dab in the middle, where the binding splits the pretty mantis faces... Only wish I could have attended.. Yeah Oso, in stores now except the local Barnes and Noble in Asheville where all copies were bought in one visit, hehehe......

[Oso]

shirkers, you could photoshop us all onto some better bods...in fact, I'd probably just need a stunt double...


NOTE TO SELF: in the future, do not stand in the middle of the group for the group shot....there are like 4 or 5 people completely cut out of the pic due to the placement.


OT: J, here's the link w/ the date and everything...give me a confirmations soon and I'll get your ticket.

http://www.brewgrassfestival.com/


in a hurry and my work computer is too effing slow...

[shirkers1]

shirkers, you could photoshop us all onto some better bods...in fact, I'd probably just need a stunt double......


Well that is my specialty.. I'll see what I can muster up, maybe we can make som $ with the all mantis practitioners calendar... I'll start taking your submissions for photos to review and we'll see what we can do. :D

Yeah I agree the group shot should have been bigger.. They could have switched the pic of john trying to calm everyone down after finding out jake drank all the beer. I'd say they could have switched the pic I'm in, but then jake wouldn't have anything to brag about anymore.... :D

[shirkers1]

the picture in question by the way is attached...

[El Tejon]

Leave it to me to wear a white shirt and stand against a white wall (middle of the back row). What fashion kung fu!

I should have been in the midst of the sea of cool guy black shirts. Oh, well, if you can't be spec ops, be special ed. :D

Check out jwwmantis! He's featured in three pics. Dig that Ramones-tribute hair. :D

[shirkers1]

Leave it to me to wear a white shirt and stand against a white wall (middle of the back row). What fashion kung fu!

I should have been in the midst of the sea of cool guy black shirts. Oh, well, if you can't be spec ops, be special ed. :D

Check out jwwmantis! He's featured in three pics. Dig that Ramones-tribute hair. :D


Yeah see wearing the light color shirt was the way to go.. I wore light grey and see we all stand out!!! HA HA... :D

Yeah he was rockin the ramones tribute big time!!! That's cool though. :)

[LingChuanPai]

Shirkers
Let me know when you have the calendars for sale...I need a new one :D
LCP

[Three Harmonies]

HEY!!! Beer is an integral part of my Mantis training! How else do you expect my qi "pockets" to be refilled??

Cheers
Jake :cool:

[libingshao]

I thought the article was good. It is good to see mantis folks coming together instead of bickering. Perhaps there will be more of an effort to promote the next one. :)

[shirkers1]

I thought the article was good. It is good to see mantis folks coming together instead of bickering. Perhaps there will be more of an effort to promote the next one. :)


Don't take this the wrong way... But may I ask in what way do you mean promote it? Like amongst the mantis practitioners or in the media in general before and after?

[libingshao]

shirkers1,

As I understand it, the meeting was promoted in the publication Mantis Quarterly also on the Mantis Quarterly website and I believe I remember, here on this website. It was, as promotions go, limited in scope. If one was not on the publication's website, nor a subscriber to the publication, (which is only distributed through schools, not to individuals so it is even more limited), there was no way to have known about it.

Perhaps something in the magazines, either KungfuQigong or IKF or a mailer to mantis schools like one does for tournaments would be good and would inform/attract more folks. I know such things are expensive and I do not pretend to know the finances of Mantis Quarterly but such things could be made up by charging for admission, or charging more. Just a thought.

Libingshao

[shirkers1]

shirkers1,

As I understand it, the meeting was promoted in the publication Mantis Quarterly also on the Mantis Quarterly website and I believe I remember, here on this website. It was, as promotions go, limited in scope. If one was not on the publication's website, nor a subscriber to the publication, (which is only distributed through schools, not to individuals so it is even more limited), there was no way to have known about it.

Perhaps something in the magazines, either KungfuQigong or IKF or a mailer to mantis schools like one does for tournaments would be good and would inform/attract more folks. I know such things are expensive and I do not pretend to know the finances of Mantis Quarterly but such things could be made up by charging for admission, or charging more. Just a thought.

Libingshao


Okay that's what I thought you were getting at, but I wanted to make sure before I comented.. As far as I know those places you mentioned were indeed a source for the word getting out.. I heard through word of mouth from my teacher back in ohio, then started looking into it and found out about it on this site... I know for a fact that a large group of mantis guys knew about the event but chose not to show up for political reasons as well as they didn't know how it was actually going to turn out and if it was going to be worth their time. Those who thought this way missed out. I think that plenty of word got out there and very few didn't know about what was going on because they have their heads in the sand and are training on their own and those people probably don't care about what the meeting was about any way..

If you think about it if you advertise too much then you'd have to turn people away because of space. It's a big job to organize such an event and if it get larger I wouldn't want to be the one to figure out how to get it done... :)

[Oso]

I think all in all it was a good size for a first time event.

I'd say, though I don't know for sure, that the majority of the US and Canadian mantis world visits this forum if not the MQ forum. So, I think it was smart, from a logistical standpoint, to limit advertising to a semi closed market so that it didn't become a cluster **** of people running around w/o anything to do.

it'll grow, and I'm very glad to say that i was able to make the first one.

[shirkers1]

I think all in all it was a good size for a first time event.

I'd say, though I don't know for sure, that the majority of the US and Canadian mantis world visits this forum if not the MQ forum. So, I think it was smart, from a logistical standpoint, to limit advertising to a semi closed market so that it didn't become a cluster **** of people running around w/o anything to do.

it'll grow, and I'm very glad to say that i was able to make the first one.

I too am very glad that I made the first one.. Only a few of us can say that.. :D

I think it's funny how some people opted out of showing up, then got upset that other people represented them after they saw how good it turned out. Well now that they see how it turned out they wish they would have just bit the bullet and showed up themselves.

[libingshao]

I know for a fact that a large group of mantis guys knew about the event but chose not to show up for political reasons as well as they didn't know how it was actually going to turn out and if it was going to be worth their time. Those who thought this way missed out.

shirkers1,

I also know of folks who were not in favor of the event but mostly it was because of Sifu Cottrell's public position and the opposition (rightly or wrongly) that brings with it. Perhaps, now that it has been successful, others can host similar events. I understand that it was attempted recently at a tournament but failed because it got even less publicity as the Mantis Quarterly conference.


I think that plenty of word got out there and very few didn't know about what was going on because they have their heads in the sand and are training on their own and those people probably don't care about what the meeting was about any way..

The word certainly did get out to groups that opposed the Mantis Quarterly meeting and they did use their influence to reach others. This will probably continue as I do not see anyone making any, at least, public overtures to reconcile differences. Again, I think more public outreach could help next time.


If you think about it if you advertise too much then you'd have to turn people away because of space. It's a big job to organize such an event and if it get larger I wouldn't want to be the one to figure out how to get it done... :)

Every tournament has the same problems. These things could be settled with advanced registration, just like at tournaments, contact and communication with potential attendees. And, like tournaments, it should include outreach to more folks.

What I wonder is, okay, so a group got together and exchanged ideas. It is a good thing. What next? Or is this the goal each time only on a bigger scale?

(I really did not expect to get into this detailed discussion. I guess that will teach me!)

Libingshao

[shirkers1]

What I wonder is, okay, so a group got together and exchanged ideas. It is a good thing. What next? Or is this the goal each time only on a bigger scale?

(I really did not expect to get into this detailed discussion. I guess that will teach me!)

Libingshao


Well it's discussions like this that could sway others to show up next time. :)

Well I'm in no way a spokesman for this event and some would rather I just shut up period. :D But I like to put in my 2 cents. What we had at the last one was limited because of time etc.. So what we did get to do was very limited and we didn't get the time to let it sink in as we were doing it. So the next ones will surely be on a larger scale as time goes. I'm sure that different subjects will be covered each time, if not then certainly other views represented. I frankly would welcome the folks that have different views, I don't think that should be a reason not to show up. That is your time to see first hand why someone trains a certain way, and for you to possibly put in your 2 cents on an equal playing field. I know that a few things that were covered we handle a different way but we went along with the flow just like everyone else. I think maybe they could have a cross section as to why someone does this and why another does something different... There are endless things that can happen with this event and I truly see it getting bigger.

[libingshao]

Well it's discussions like this that could sway others to show up next time. :)

... There are endless things that can happen with this event and I truly see it getting bigger.

shirkers1,

There is every possiblity that it will grow, even if groups not friendly to Sifu Cottrell continue to oppose it. Especially as it seems to have gathered some media attention outside of Sifu Cottrell's publication and website. When this happens, and people see a gathering momentum a lot of questions arise.

Some folks I know look at it and ask:

1) Will it lead to an association across mantis families, (headed by say...Sifu Cottrell perhaps)? Could that be used to delegitimize others not associated (those opposed to Sifu Cottrell)? Sifu Cottrell already has an association, according to his Authentic Kung-Fu website, and he invites others to join. I know that they are separate websites but are they separate enterprises, really?

2) I understand that the persons leading the classes were competent and legitimate instructors, that is good. Will the next one become increasingly like the "Master's Demonstrations" I see now with every person bringing people to an event allowed to demonstrate their "skills"? If they do not allow everyone who wants to put on a class do so, will that increase opposition to the event and bring claims that it is a "controlled group" like his website?

I don't expect you to have these answers but it is worth thinking about as everyone is talking about the success of the event.

Libingshao

[shirkers1]

shirkers1,

There is every possiblity that it will grow, even if groups not friendly to Sifu Cottrell continue to oppose it. Especially as it seems to have gathered some media attention outside of Sifu Cottrell's publication and website. When this happens, and people see a gathering momentum a lot of questions arise.

Some folks I know look at it and ask:

1) Will it lead to an association across mantis families, (headed by say...Sifu Cottrell perhaps)? Could that be used to delegitimize others not associated (those opposed to Sifu Cottrell)? Sifu Cottrell already has an association, according to his Authentic Kung-Fu website, and he invites others to join. I know that they are separate websites but are they separate enterprises, really?

2) I understand that the persons leading the classes were competent and legitimate instructors, that is good. Will the next one become increasingly like the "Master's Demonstrations" I see now with every person bringing people to an event allowed to demonstrate their "skills"? If they do not allow everyone who wants to put on a class do so, will that increase opposition to the event and bring claims that it is a "controlled group" like his website?

I don't expect you to have these answers but it is worth thinking about as everyone is talking about the success of the event.

Libingshao

Who there besides mr cottrell was part of his organization? You may have had people there that are subscribers to the mantis quarterly, some of whom that submit info to the quarterly. The quarterly gives an equal ground to all families to present info I believe. That is what the event was about, people from different groups getting together to show their stuff. Just because you show up to an event like this doesn't mean that you have to sell your soul and become part of some secret society. I think the goal of mr cottrell is to gather ALL mantis practitioners together to share their ideas period whether you agree or disagree that is your right. You can either take it and use it or not. Now maybe I'm wrong and things could go to **** in the future, but then we'd be where we are no so what is there to loose? Why not make an effort to try and bring everyone together so the community can grow and get better.

[libingshao]

Who there besides mr cottrell was part of his organization?

Why not make an effort to try and bring everyone together so the community can grow and get better.

shirkers1,

You have me there, I have no idea who is in his association, no list exists on his website. Since there were a diversity of styles present and this was their first meeting, I will assume for arguement's sake that none of the presenters are in his association.

I brought it up only because folks wonder why all this effort to bring practitioners together. I know that the answer is for the art and to make new friends and to boldly go where...well, nevermind.

To be truthful though, very few people go to this kind of effort without a monetary or social/ status payoff. For most folks the first thing would be to create an association so that is the first question. That is why I brought it up as I have heard the arguement made before.

As for Mantis Quarterly I have read the on-line copy. It looks interesting and I can see that folks would want it or want to publish an article in it. It is recognition among one's peers, the same for any magazine. That is probably part of the draw of the meetings also.

Anyway I have enjoyed the discussion.

Libingshao

[Three Harmonies]

I AM TIRED OF THIS ****!!!!!!! :mad:
Those that "oppose" Mr Cottrell's whatever, are simply jealous! PERIOD! I am tired of debating it, I am tired of hearing it, and I am certianly tired of being grouped in with some imaginary cult or association! There is no association, only subscribers and contributors.
The last I checked their is only a hand full of us that are opening our doors (minds) and trying to make this community stronger. To hide behind some bull**** excuse such as not agreeing with Cottrell, or not liking Cottrell or...........WHAT THE **** EVER is simply jealousy rearing it's ugly head! I do not always agree with Cottrell, but I made it. And that was great because we all shared our opinions and thoughts with no hard feelings. I went for the better good of the community. I did not hide behind some BS excuse.
If those individuals are going to choose not to come to something because of the organizer (which NO ONE ELSE stepped up to the challenge!!!!), then I just assume they stay home in their comfy little corner of the world, because they most likely have nothing of value to share anyways!
**** I thought I left all this back in 6th grade. No more excuses. If someone has sometihng to share (whether or not we all agree) then share. Otherwise shut the **** up!

Peace,
Jake :cool:

[shirkers1]

I AM TIRED OF THIS ****!!!!!!! :mad:
Those that "oppose" Mr Cottrell's whatever, are simply jealous! PERIOD! I am tired of debating it, I am tired of hearing it, and I am certianly tired of being grouped in with some imaginary cult or association! There is no association, only subscribers and contributors.
The last I checked their is only a hand full of us that are opening our doors (minds) and trying to make this community stronger. To hide behind some bull**** excuse such as not agreeing with Cottrell, or not liking Cottrell or...........WHAT THE **** EVER is simply jealousy rearing it's ugly head! I do not always agree with Cottrell, but I made it. And that was great because we all shared our opinions and thoughts with no hard feelings. I went for the better good of the community. I did not hide behind some BS excuse.
If those individuals are going to choose not to come to something because of the organizer (which NO ONE ELSE stepped up to the challenge!!!!), then I just assume they stay home in their comfy little corner of the world, because they most likely have nothing of value to share anyways!
**** I thought I left all this back in 6th grade. No more excuses. If someone has sometihng to share (whether or not we all agree) then share. Otherwise shut the **** up!

Peace,
Jake :cool:

Jeeez, get your picture in OOOONE magazine and now your mr big shot!!!! :eek: Hee hee just kidding jake... I totally agree, so far all I've heard is excuses. The best thing to do is to just show up and voice your opinion.. how hard is that? Show your stuff if it's worth anything then people will take note and that's that. :)

[Oso]

well, while I agree with Jake's sentiment I have to say that so far libingshou is being very diplomatic.

there is a divisiveness within mantis and until people can set aside their ego and show up to publically discuss their disagreement...and share thier knowledge (which is presumably the basis for thier disagreement with Sifu Cottrell's 'public position', whatever the hell that might be) then they need to STFU.


this past spring's (winter????) meeting was by far the most egoless martial seminar/tournament/whatever event that I've been too.

That's the format: Bring your skills, leave the ego.

not saying ego isn't going to be present but everyone at least played it like they were 'going with the flow' and there was much fun, beer drinking and friendly crossing of hands ( and on my side, some '****, i just got schooled ) in the evenings.

it's all good and all fun so why not show up?

[shalabaji]

3Harmonies,

what kind of specious logic is this? This seems to have been a dimplomatic discussion on the seminar, and look who has to spoil it once more!

Frankly, I'm tired of reading your 6th grade comments, so I will stop - If you're tired of 6th grade arguments, then learn to look the other way sucker.

shirkers: ... totally agree, so far all I've heard is excuses ...

Shirkers! WTF?!?!?! When are you going to stick to an opinion and stop sticking your head up other buts?? I've heard some bull**** before now, but you really take the biscuit - I LOVE reading your posts just because the more you post more schizophrenic you present yourself! Seems (by the look at your videos) that you're "TMA" is the same - nice ass in the push-ups BTW - what was the purpose of that again??

libingshao: Interesting take on the conference thingy - sorry to post such rubbish amidst your diplomatic and informative discourse :) But Shirkers is just such an idiot ... "putting in his 2 cents" - what the **** does that mean??!! ha

[Three Harmonies]

Number one my rant was not aimed at anyone in particular, especially lingbingshao! Sorry if he took it that way. I am just sick and tired of hearing everyone give a list of excuses as to why they did not come to the conference.....ESPECIALLY when the excuse is in regards to Steve Cottrell! Love him or hate, I could care less. But to sit here and use him as the scape goat as to why someone does not support the community (STEVE was not the only one there!), and does not share......well that is bull**** and I am tired of seeing it brought up. If Lingbing shao took my rant personally, please do not. Perhaps you were not privy to the previous conversations we all had.
Shalabaji,
My 6th grade comments?? Where the **** do you get off? I did not spoil anything. There is no discusion regarding why certain individuals did not show up. Like previously stated I find it amusing (to say the least) that no one prior to this event were offering there help (besdies a few of us). And then all the sudden just after the conference we get oodles of BS excuses as to why so and so can't come. Everyone blamed Steve (which he totally predicted), and we heard their BS excuses. So there is no conversation. No discussion. Those who continue to ***** about Steve are NOTHING but jealous!! Period. Steve has bigger balls than most of you guys brains! He took a chance to fall totally on his face. Ruin his career! Loose students and respect! But he had the balls to go out and not only promote, but organize, and spend countless hours taking care of stupid ****, not to mention being Mr. Diplomatic himself, to get this event to the prime time instead of the parking lot!
You can think of him as the biggest ass on earth, but EVERYONE owes him props for doing this!

My apologies if this rant was taken wrong, but lets all move on with the crap. I hope more can show up next time, or PLEASE organize something similar to this if you think you can do better!! I hope it gets better, and bigger, and more totally super cooler in the future :D

Cheers
Jake :cool:

[shalabaji]

3harmonies: "I hope it gets better, and bigger, and more totally super cooler in the future "

I take it you're not referring to Steve's Balls by this then? You seem to know a lot about this subject area. Could you enlighten us how this helps with such a mantis practitioner as yourself? I'd be interested in learning the techniques - Puts a different spin on training bai yuan / tang lang tou tao!!

It is STUPID to think that the "mantis gathering" got most people's attention! Where are the facts and figures to show how many people practice Mantis and how many knew about the conference?? Maybe it should have said, "got a few people's attention in the US and a little further a field in Europe" (seems people completely forgot about the most populous nation on earth!). It seems to have been a beginning for a predominantly US community, but don't let that fool anyone into thinking it was **** for everyone else.

I'm happy everyone had a good time (not that I matter ****), and any forum for exchange of reasonable and rational ideas about anything is good (guess that excludes Shirkers then)... But common' folks, put it in perspective! If it was as big and important as everyone else is saying they'd have had a **** sight better photographer!!!

Congrats on the gathering all - next time my house!

[shirkers1]

3Harmonies,

what kind of specious logic is this? This seems to have been a dimplomatic discussion on the seminar, and look who has to spoil it once more!

Frankly, I'm tired of reading your 6th grade comments, so I will stop - If you're tired of 6th grade arguments, then learn to look the other way sucker.

shirkers: ... totally agree, so far all I've heard is excuses ...

Shirkers! WTF?!?!?! When are you going to stick to an opinion and stop sticking your head up other buts?? I've heard some bull**** before now, but you really take the biscuit - I LOVE reading your posts just because the more you post more schizophrenic you present yourself! Seems (by the look at your videos) that you're "TMA" is the same - nice ass in the push-ups BTW - what was the purpose of that again??

libingshao: Interesting take on the conference thingy - sorry to post such rubbish amidst your diplomatic and informative discourse :) But Shirkers is just such an idiot ... "putting in his 2 cents" - what the **** does that mean??!! ha

This was a good one, you made my night... Well shamalamadingdong you can call me by my first name "mark" like most of the other guys on here who don't hide behind names on a board like you. When ever you feel the need to get to know my schizophrenic ass better let me know.

Where did I contradict myself? Do you know what schizophrenic means? Why are you looking at my ass?

[shirkers1]

3harmonies: "I hope it gets better, and bigger, and more totally super cooler in the future "

I take it you're not referring to Steve's Balls by this then? You seem to know a lot about this subject area. Could you enlighten us how this helps with such a mantis practitioner as yourself? I'd be interested in learning the techniques - Puts a different spin on training bai yuan / tang lang tou tao!!

It is STUPID to think that the "mantis gathering" got most people's attention! Where are the facts and figures to show how many people practice Mantis and how many knew about the conference?? Maybe it should have said, "got a few people's attention in the US and a little further a field in Europe" (seems people completely forgot about the most populous nation on earth!). It seems to have been a beginning for a predominantly US community, but don't let that fool anyone into thinking it was **** for everyone else.

I'm happy everyone had a good time (not that I matter ****), and any forum for exchange of reasonable and rational ideas about anything is good (guess that excludes Shirkers then)... But common' folks, put it in perspective! If it was as big and important as everyone else is saying they'd have had a **** sight better photographer!!!

Congrats on the gathering all - next time my house!

Well that's funny because there was a gentleman from the mainland there at the conferance. He seemed to know about it, as well as others. In fact I know of one group from the mainland who was offered free air fare just so they would show up and enlighten us with their top of the line mantis... So maybe you need to step back and think before you spout off. If you're going to try and rip on someone at least come with some facts big guy. Who was the photographer? Oh that's right bei the moderator of this forum as well as others... that's cool man..... you know how to make friends don't you. :rolleyes:

[shalabaji]

Ah, "Mark", so nice of you to have replied. Can always rely on "the Shirkers" :) Thanks, feel much more successful now.

So, a couple people from the "mainland" means everyone else there knows about the conference (were they "from" the mainland or "in" the mainland). nice. Glad I was proven wrong there then. Another group(?) was offered their flight over? Was that the "Shanghai group"? That was very nice of everyone to be so gentlemanly about things :)

The **** in the "sight better photographer!!!" part of my post actually says "d. a. m. n." but got blanked for being too offensive i guess. Well, I didn't know that BTL was a profesisonal photographer, and if he isn't, well, nuff said.

I like your ass "Mark" especially when it goes up and down like that. Reminds me of your bung bu, high stances, zero intention, dreadfull footwork, lack of common co-ordiantion skills, and ... i'll stop. I should say what everyone else says - Good work there :) 14 years is it? really paid off yeh :) I have no idea what schizophrenic means, just found it in the dictionary and thought of you. It's a positive thing I hope.

Thanks

shalabaji

oh oh - forgot to say my real name.... it's...**** (bet this get's blanked too!!)

[BeiTangLang]

One night away,...
Guys, this is too much,...really. Enhance your calm. :)
Keep it civil or I'll have to shut this one down.
As for the images, if you are interested in the technical reason behind their lack of "professional quality" feel free to email me.....I'll tell you the details behind the lighting & shooting conditions.

Back to civil mantis dicussions,
Respectfully,
~BTL


(& Yes,...I am a pro-photographer.)

[Three Harmonies]

Shalabaji
Do you have some vids up of yourself on the web?
Hate to say it, but I agree with Mark....use your real name and quit hiding behind excuses.
As for people being invited......we posted it ALLOVER the web, not to mention personal emails, and advertisements in MQ. Everyone knew about this. Just another bull**** excuse in my eyes.

Jake :cool:

[shirkers1]

Ah, "Mark", so nice of you to have replied. Can always rely on "the Shirkers" :) Thanks, feel much more successful now.

So, a couple people from the "mainland" means everyone else there knows about the conference (were they "from" the mainland or "in" the mainland). nice. Glad I was proven wrong there then. Another group(?) was offered their flight over? Was that the "Shanghai group"? That was very nice of everyone to be so gentlemanly about things :)

I like your ass "Mark" especially when it goes up and down like that. Reminds me of your bung bu, high stances, zero intention, dreadfull footwork, lack of common co-ordiantion skills, and ... i'll stop. I should say what everyone else says - Good work there :) 14 years is it? really paid off yeh :) I have no idea what schizophrenic means, just found it in the dictionary and thought of you. It's a positive thing I hope.

Thanks

shalabaji

oh oh - forgot to say my real name.... it's...**** (bet this get's blanked too!!)

:D I do what I can to please my fans, I'm glad you enjoy my work..

Hmmm without naming names you know who we're talking about then.. Wow the plot thickens, who could shabazabiatch be? Troll on big guy....troll on.

Cool man I'm glad you enjoy watching it... I enjoy looking at shirtless greased down men with studded belts on just as much as you love looking at my ass.. looks like we have more in common than you thought.. I've been running the stairs at work, I find it lifts and makes my ass hard like steel. As for the bung bo, it was done that way on purpose to show the individual tactics slow to prove a point that was being made at the time.


Back to the topic at hand.. so the thread doesn't get shut down... Hopefully someone will moderate the individuals insulting others and not the thread.

Can't wait to get together and train with everyone again.. Hopefully we'll have a lot of new faces. The only way to know is to just show up and be there for the fun. Other than that, I woulda coulda doesn't matter.

[libingshao]

shirkers1 et al,

It certainly was not my intention to begin greater conflict. I actually only wanted to say that the meeting was, at face value, a good thing. Then, I simply responded to the questions posed to me.

I may be a critic of the meeting but I, personally, am not in opposition to it. I simply wonder if the new paradigm; that of meeting and exchanging techniques, is a good one. Does it spell the death of style (if we all adopt each others techniques) or is it a good thing for all styles, (in that we all understand ourselves better in comparision to others).

I also wonder if a meeting of this sort can be maintained with the same integrity, over time, in today's commercial martial culture.

I will withdraw from the discussion at this point. I appreciate the welcome I have received. :)

My best to all of you.

Libingshao

[Oso]

shirkers1 et al,

It certainly was not my intention to begin greater conflict. I actually only wanted to say that the meeting was, at face value, a good thing. Then, I simply responded to the questions posed to me.

I, for one (fwiw), appreciated your comments.

I may be a critic of the meeting but I, personally, am not in opposition to it. I simply wonder if the new paradigm; that of meeting and exchanging techniques, is a good one. Does it spell the death of style (if we all adopt each others techniques) or is it a good thing for all styles, (in that we all understand ourselves better in comparision to others).

At some point there was only one mantis style, if the legend is to be believed at all.

I believe that also, in the beginning, it was more about effectiveness versus method.

Is diversification over time a good thing if the roots are split and each branch only has parts of the whole?

Isolation is never a good thing.

How much does style = ego?

I also wonder if a meeting of this sort can be maintained with the same integrity, over time, in today's commercial martial culture.

good bleedin' question.

But, if we don't try we won't know, will we?

I tell my students every single day...'it's not the results, it's the effort'.
If you try as hard as you can then you will do the best that you are able.
That's all you can do.


I will withdraw from the discussion at this point. I appreciate the welcome I have received. :)

My best to all of you.

Libingshao

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[Frogman]

One of the best threads ever… still don’t get what the big deal is. So some people got together and compared their stuff with some other people…. Was anyone hurt? Didn’t think so, well except some feelings maybe. It all comes down to he said she said BS. I knew about it. Didn’t go, personal choice, I don’t feel like I missed out cause what ever I was doing at the time was needing to be done…. I’m sure. Would I go in the future? no doubt if the opportunity presents it’s self. So I’m not taking side since I could careless but I also have two cents and will happily share them since I’m at work and board…. Why make it bigger? Maybe get more people involved but I would say it sounds like a nice size group. Big enough to have diversity small enough that your not choosing what to do, cause so much is going on. You can not go back in time so for those of us who were not there stop worrying about the past and look to the future. The idea in general seems to be very sound but it may not be to everyone’s liking. I can say that there are events that some like and other don’t. keep in mind when you point the finger at someone you have three pointing back at you. good luck this thread will not last the rest of the week. Well it’s been fun think I’ll do some work now.

fm
:p

[shirkers1]

First off Libingshao, no need to bow out... I don't think you were being offensive really and your comments have merit.. Having two sides two a discussion is important it can help sove future problems before they happen by getting points made and worked out.. Now what that other cat was doing was purely offensive personal attacks for no reason.

This quote below was taken from the quarterly site made by steve about some of the talks as of late I hope no one gets mad that I borrowed it, but it answers a lot of questions asked in this thread and it's straight from the horses mouth. :) Hope it helps..


"There has been discussion of late in the light of the recent article in IKF concerning the nature and future of the Mantis Boxing Conference. I will have to spread my answers out over a number of posts but I will try to address them here rather than answer elsewhere as we have a section of the website dedicated to the Conferences past and future.

But to start off:
1. The conference has nothing to do with any specific association or organization. Many attended who do *not even get the Quarterly. There were, in fact, several well-established associations present and the question of a common affilitation never occured to us. We were too busy doing Tanglangquan. There will not be an association based off of the Mantis Boxing Conferences. They will remain non-partisian. The Mantis Boxing Conference and my own association are indeed, really very separate enterprises with different goals.

2. The instructors who presented workshops were permitted to do so because they are well-established and well-credentialed representatives of the art. Also, they supplied me with outlines of what they planned to present in advance so that it could be coordinated with others. They also granted me, as coordinator, the option of suggesting other topics, (something I did not nor do I expect in the future but it does make the job of coordinating everything much easier).

The question arose recently regarding who would be allowed to present. To be honest, some of the presenters made it very clear from the beginning that, if there was anyone that it seemed better to have present, they would withdraw from presenting without any hard feelings. I would hope that this spirit of cooperation would continue as begun. If not, then I guess we know in what spirit the group or individual wants to attend the conference.

In the future, presenters will be chosen on those same criteria. It must be said that if there are ten folks of the same lineage and four of other lineages the four will get priority of time available and the other will be chosen based upon seniority and the already successfully-used criteria noted above. It gives the attendees the ability to see the largest range of styles, the point of the Conference.

The question of someone getting their feelings hurt and not attending is one that was with us in the beginning. It will not damage the conference. Those who want to be offended will always find a way to be. We can only make our best decisions and go forward.

3. It is true that those presenting are will be featured on the DVD produced from the Conference. This is the reward for those presenting. They become a part of what is being heralded as an historic event and will receive recognition from the community. They will also receive the attention from the media that the events draw. This recognition could assist as any publicity could for any instructor in further promoting themselves and their line of Tanglangquan but that is not the goal of the Conference.

I must go for now but I have more to say on this topic. Forgive my long-windedness but I believe that these questions should be answered.

Steve Cottrell"

*mod edit to match original doc

[libingshao]

shirkers1,

Now I see how forums take up so much time. I asked several questions, mostly to provoke thought, and I see that I have a response. So, if I do not respond, the answer stands. Can't leave the field when opposition arrives, so:

I ask if Sifu Cottrell's association and the meetings are really separate things. He responds that they are separate. Of course it has only been a short time since the meeting. The question, at this point, hinges on one's trust of Sifu Cottrell. I will take a wait and see attitude on this one.

I ask if the criteria will change to allow unqualified persons to have the spotlight when the chance to make more money comes along. (If this thing does grow, a fact which remains to be seen). Sifu Cottrell asserts that there are performance and now even attitudinal criteria from the unselfish group that came this time. I think that, in the short-term, he may be able to keep the technical levels up but I don't think that the attitude thing will endure. It is not the nature of many instructors, especially those who are heads of organizations. Again, in the long run, we are asked to trust him.

Finally there is the question of the DVD. It is a good thing to record the presentations and make them available for those choosing not to attend so that we can see what is taught and what the conference is like. It could help, or hurt, future events. Again wait and see.

Libingshao

P.S.

From the response, I get the feel that IF Sifu Cottrell has no other agenda now, and that one does not develop in the future because of the possibility of greater financial reward, the criteria he sets out is idealistic to a degree that it boarders on naive. Of course that makes for great watching and speculation.

[Hoop]

Cool man I'm glad you enjoy watching it... I enjoy looking at shirtless greased down men with studded belts on just as much as you love looking at my ass.. looks like we have more in common than you thought.. I've been running the stairs at work, I find it lifts and makes my ass hard like steel. As for the bung bo, it was done that way on purpose to show the individual tactics slow to prove a point that was being made at the time.




C'mon you know you modified bung bo to "buns bo." You've got all the leatherboys worked up with your Iron Booty style.

Such a tease.

[Oso]

the criteria he sets out is idealistic to a degree that it boarders on naive.

'naive'?

I doubt it.

'hopefull'?

that's what I think. Hope that people can rise above the ego and bull**** and just train.

you train some of my ****, I'll train some of your ****.

maybe you take something home that you like and I'll take something home that I liked.

it's only people hiding in corners that are trying to see something more than just the training.

jeez, just take every opportunity you can to train.

[shirkers1]

C'mon you know you modified bung bo to "buns bo." You've got all the leatherboys worked up with your Iron Booty style.

Such a tease.


I'm taking mantis main stream. If billy blanks can do it so can I... :D first buns bo then the men of mantis boxing calendar, I'm still waiting for submissions guys. Get those pics into me asap.

[shirkers1]

Man it's what you make of it.. If you doubt everything and think it's naive than that's what you're going to take away from it. Make it what you want it to be...

Hey paul are you still working out with mike...?

Once again accepting submissions.. They should be in this vein, hard core kung fu.

[Hoop]

Hey paul are you still working out with mike...?





Yes. I'll be there tonight for "slap the sh** out of each other" night.


Those pics are disturbing, ha.

[Ou Ji]

Has it occured to anyone to support the conference but keep a watchful eye out for anything that would indicate these concerns may come about?

And if you did see indications you can voice your concerns and see if they're addressed or ignored?

Only then would you pull support for the conference.

You know, innocent until proven guilty. Why should Mr. Cottrell have to prove he has no private agenda before everyone lends support?

By then the whole thing could crash and burn. But then, I believe that is the point of witholding support in the beginning isn't it?

[Three Harmonies]

Ou Ji
Good post.

You know what cracks me up about all this. Let's say Steve really does have a secret hidden ninja-like agenda to steal our money and information and everything! He can only take your time and money if you give it to him. So far it has proven that he makes no money off this crap! If one feels like he is pulling a fast one on them, do not support it. Pull out. There is no life ending bond by coming to a conference!!

Cheers
Jake ;) :cool:

[El Tejon]

No life ending bond by going to the mantis conference???

I beg to differ, what about trying to keep up with the Canadians and their iron liver qigong? That was rough! :D

[libingshao]

El Tejon,

Photos are forever. Pictures of people together can be interpreted as anything the writer wants. Especially if he has his own publication in which to make the claims.

I want to see the DVD of the proceedings. I hope the participants will comment on the validity of the presentation. I can judge the validity of the technique.

Respectfully,

Libingshao

[BeiTangLang]

I don't remember the canadians drinking that much hard juice... :D

[Oso]

indeed...bunch of beer swilling wusses... :D

we were drinking tequila and 80 proof saki....Shoku Hochi or something...I figured since it had 'chi' in it's name it had to be good for you....

[shirkers1]

The great part was being locked outside in the cold and snow while the presenters were being interviewed and seeing neal armstrong come strolling out of the bar sucking on a cig.. I'm like "what's up"? He's like " ah just sippin on some brew"... :D Funny as hell, we're inside working out and those cats come strolling in from the bar next door. :eek: Iron liver in full effect.

[shirkers1]

El Tejon,

Photos are forever. Pictures of people together can be interpreted as anything the writer wants. Especially if he has his own publication in which to make the claims.

I want to see the DVD of the proceedings. I hope the participants will comment on the validity of the presentation. I can judge the validity of the technique.

Respectfully,

Libingshao


Sorry libingshao... You have to be part of the alliance to even view the dvd. As far as actually owning it..? Pfft That will require you to donate at least $30,000 a year to the north american coalition mantis men, and sacrifice 1 student a year to the insect gods. We as a secret society bent on rulling the MA world hope to see you at the next ritual gathering. Your money and blood offering will be most welcome. <<<< walks off while doing the secret mantis wave that only the north american coalition mantis men know >>>>>>

[Three Harmonies]

Shirkers
What the hell is wrong with you :eek: :confused:
The secret Mantis wave is just that: FRICKIN SECRET!!!!!
Pictures can be interpreted anyway anyone wants. So can video. Screw all this noise. It has become painfully obvious that libingshao is either Pel or one of his crew again posting under some pseudonym. Next Mantis conference come on down and touch hands. Then you can FEEL all of our bogus fake ****!

Jake :cool:

[shirkers1]

Shirkers
What the hell is wrong with you :eek: :confused:
The secret Mantis wave is just that: FRICKIN SECRET!!!!!
Pictures can be interpreted anyway anyone wants. So can video. Screw all this noise. It has become painfully obvious that libingshao is either Pel or one of his crew again posting under some pseudonym. Next Mantis conference come on down and touch hands. Then you can FEEL all of our bogus fake ****!

Jake :cool:

Dude don't worry I did the fake one that we only show the non believers until they make their first offering... :cool:

As for the showing up to FEEL our stuff... I don't know there was an awful lot of talk about my ass as of late. :eek:

Sadly I must bow out of the next gathering, I'm going to retire this year. I've made enough money off of those suckers that joined last year that I can now hire body guards to protect me from all the people I ****ed off this year. :D

[El Tejon]

shrikers, yes, it was Neil in the bar . . . all by himself (I was practicing the hidden form of "Mantis Orders Amstel Light"), that's the ticket. :D In Canada, beer is merely liquid bread.

As well, the first rule of Super Secret Mantis Society is not to talk about Super Secret Mantis Society. At the next meeting you have to stand before the group and sing the Super Secret Mantis song as your punishment and are fined 25 mantis dollars.

[shirkers1]

shrikers, yes, it was Neil in the bar . . . all by himself (I was practicing the hidden form of "Mantis Orders Amstel Light"), that's the ticket. :D In Canada, beer is merely liquid bread.

As well, the first rule of Super Secret Mantis Society is not to talk about Super Secret Mantis Society. At the next meeting you have to stand before the group and sing the Super Secret Mantis song as your punishment and are fined 25 mantis dollars.


yeah there was a whole group of you guys rolling out of that joint, smoke billowing out of the doorway, stumbling out into the cold afternoon air.. :D

[El Tejon]

Where the Canadians lead, I follow. :D

El Tejon, devoted ally of Canadian wing of the "Super Secret Mantis Society Committed to World Domination, Price Fixing the Silver Market, General Mayhem and Evil, Training Mantis, and Lifting A Brew or Two" (that will never fit on my business card).