Martial Artists and Athletecism

[WinterPalm]

How do you guys find the training you do as opposed to training like an athelete? Do you train with weights and cardio, sort of like sprints or basic ladder drill stuff, etc?
Do you set periodization goals or is it more of a continous training with whatever needs focus gets focus? I am curious because there is much popularity from the MMA approach to training martial artists so I want to know how popular these approaches are to traditional or modern kung fu people. On several threads here and other places I've seen people commenting on how strength, endurance or conditioning and atheltic skills are limited in determining a fight. We all know that equal in skill many times the fellow with more strength or conditioning will win the day but what if one guy has that mindset? Is mindset, intent, experience, knowledge of fighting, worth nothing compared to fighting skill? I've seen several UFC fights and wins by peopel who had sloppy skill but very good conditioning and I'm wondering how people feel this affects kung fu in general.

[David Jamieson]

How do you guys find the training you do as opposed to training like an athelete?

If guys haven't trained athletically, I don't think they can give a viable reply to this. A great many people who train, train as they have been shown and are pretty much oblivious to other processes that may enhance their regimen or even be better than their current path.



Do you train with weights and cardio, sort of like sprints or basic ladder drill stuff, etc?

cv endurance (not fat loss) is paramount to any martial art. In the martial arts I have practiced, only the sportive combative focused ones put special emphasis on this type of endurance training.



Do you set periodization goals or is it more of a continous training with whatever needs focus gets focus? I am curious because there is much popularity from the MMA approach to training martial artists so I want to know how popular these approaches are to traditional or modern kung fu people.

mma has a progessive path up, a plateau and focuses on attributes of the fighter in order to break through the plateau. Traditional Kungfu focuses on style and form and representation of style in performance or fighting when fighting is done. Modern kungfu, is either wushu or san shou. wushu doesn't look at sportive combative and trains to performance of sets. San shou training has the focus of practical usage of materials that fall within it's rule sets. It trains the attributes of a fighter that will meet the needs of that fighter according to the conditions the fighter can expect to be exposed to.


On several threads here and other places I've seen people commenting on how strength, endurance or conditioning and atheltic skills are limited in determining a fight.
People make comments all the time about stuff they don't have a clue about. I would say that in a worst case scenario IE: //crazed psychopath with a gun to the sport fighters head negates the sport fighters skills// that attributes don't matter, but in the actuality of a street or ring fight that falls within the 90% of the time or better parametres, strength, endurance, conditioning and athletic skills will choke out the opponent pretty quickly. :p



We all know that equal in skill many times the fellow with more strength or conditioning will win the day but what if one guy has that mindset? Is mindset, intent, experience, knowledge of fighting, worth nothing compared to fighting skill? I've seen several UFC fights and wins by peopel who had sloppy skill but very good conditioning and I'm wondering how people feel this affects kung fu in general.

don't mistake pressured, under resistance fighting as sloppy. I hear this a lot, but truth is, if it lands and structure is correct, then it is not sloppy. Just because it is not presented in text book faction and doesn't look "staged" doesn't equate to sloppy. Real fighting at any level doesn't look flashy, it can look skilled and it cqan be obvious that one fighter is better than another and yes, there are sloppy individuals out there, but I would'nt blanket ufc fights these days as sloppy. The early days they were sloppy because they had a load of people in there who "thought" they could fight, tried a couple of hi yahs, a few deep stances postures and attempted stare downs and then promptly got their asses handed to them by the "sloppy" guy. :rolleyes: lol.

Mindset can translate as deluded and has only one side that is of any importance. A strong mindset will allow you to maintain focus. It will not defeat your opponent.

Intent is also one sided. Your intent may or may not mete out in the arena of cause and effect despite how much you believe in yourself and what you're doing.

Experience in fights will help of course. Experience in life skills has nothing to do with fighting.

Knowledge of fighting... do you mean "how to" book knowledge? or is this related to actual experience in a pressurized state that mounts to more than one or two fights but rather is reflective of a consistent period of time spent pressure testing your fight skills? If the former it isn't really worth much, in the later the results will be much more readily seeable.


ultimately, if you really want to see and know the difference, go to a club that trains to fight and see if you can try your stuff on an open mat. That's the quickest way to find out where you're at. I know there are several clubs around where you are WP that will be more than happy to give anyone that opportunity.

[SevenStar]

pretty much what DJ said - that was a good post.

[WinterPalm]

My post wasy meant to ask people what they do. Not more philosophy and digression from the topic. I don't care much for long winded posts. I want to know how people train and what they do and why. I am curious, that is all. However, I have found that in Kung Fu there is a huge emphasis on endurance activity and training. Sure, we don't go out running but there is so much focus put on being able to last both in an anerobic and aerobic setting. I will give props to the sport fighters because they are training for a battle of attrition and it is necessary to push certain systems of their bodies to extreme points. As in any sportive event. But every sportive event has many, many people at the end of their cut short career an elderly age with many injuries. That is a risk for the glory I suppose...

There have been instances on the street where people have confronted me in very aggresive manners and I have used a calm and direct demanor and manner of speaking to calm them down and send them on their way. I have not had to go toe to toe and I am happy for this. I mention this as I see that as a manifestation of martial art. I suppose for many the grass is always greener on the other side but it takes work and effort to make it work. I have no delusions about being a pro fighter or a champ. I'm just a university student learning some skills that will keep me healthy and strong, provide a social arena to develop myself and some skills that will help me if I ever need to use them. I have no need to compare myself to others, to fight, to beat people up, or to dismiss something someone else is doing as garbage because I don't understand it. On that note, I have mixed up my sparring with people trained in arts outside the kwoon and although I have only been training for five years I have defended myself and usually, which is odd, I have outlasted my opponents due to energy conservation and evasiveness. Fighting doesn't have to be just slugging away and hoping you outlast the other guy, but people that spar like this are easy to avoid, circle, confuse, and ultimately hit. Not saying I haven't been hit hard or been taken down, but that also doesn't mean I'm going to give up my kung fu which has obviously done me very well. Just means that on that particular day the circumstances went in his favour. That happens to anybody. Take Couture losing to Liddell. That was a shame for such a high trained man but Liddell made Couture play his game and finished it quickly.

For those that compete and are athletes, then I understand the need for extreme training methods, but for those of us with regular jobs, lives, etc, how long can one keep up such intense training? Kung Fu pushs you but it does so in a progressive manner so that one becomes comfortable with what they are doing and how to use it.

I don't mean to say that physical attributes don't help, that fellow I spar with took me down and when he has gotten past my guard, he has always outmuscled me but when I get my head together in such an intense situation, technique is applied and I free myself.

[David Jamieson]

Then be happy with what you got dude.

[FatherDog]

My post wasy meant to ask people what they do. Not more philosophy and digression from the topic. I don't care much for long winded posts. I want to know how people train and what they do and why. I am curious, that is all. However, I have found that in Kung Fu there is a huge emphasis on endurance activity and training. Sure, we don't go out running but there is so much focus put on being able to last both in an anerobic and aerobic setting. I will give props to the sport fighters because they are training for a battle of attrition and it is necessary to push certain systems of their bodies to extreme points. As in any sportive event. But every sportive event has many, many people at the end of their cut short career an elderly age with many injuries. That is a risk for the glory I suppose...

There have been instances on the street where people have confronted me in very aggresive manners and I have used a calm and direct demanor and manner of speaking to calm them down and send them on their way. I have not had to go toe to toe and I am happy for this. I mention this as I see that as a manifestation of martial art. I suppose for many the grass is always greener on the other side but it takes work and effort to make it work. I have no delusions about being a pro fighter or a champ. I'm just a university student learning some skills that will keep me healthy and strong, provide a social arena to develop myself and some skills that will help me if I ever need to use them. I have no need to compare myself to others, to fight, to beat people up, or to dismiss something someone else is doing as garbage because I don't understand it. On that note, I have mixed up my sparring with people trained in arts outside the kwoon and although I have only been training for five years I have defended myself and usually, which is odd, I have outlasted my opponents due to energy conservation and evasiveness. Fighting doesn't have to be just slugging away and hoping you outlast the other guy, but people that spar like this are easy to avoid, circle, confuse, and ultimately hit. Not saying I haven't been hit hard or been taken down, but that also doesn't mean I'm going to give up my kung fu which has obviously done me very well. Just means that on that particular day the circumstances went in his favour. That happens to anybody. Take Couture losing to Liddell. That was a shame for such a high trained man but Liddell made Couture play his game and finished it quickly.

For those that compete and are athletes, then I understand the need for extreme training methods, but for those of us with regular jobs, lives, etc, how long can one keep up such intense training? Kung Fu pushs you but it does so in a progressive manner so that one becomes comfortable with what they are doing and how to use it.

I don't mean to say that physical attributes don't help, that fellow I spar with took me down and when he has gotten past my guard, he has always outmuscled me but when I get my head together in such an intense situation, technique is applied and I free myself.

tl;dnr

____

[David Jamieson]

tl;dnr

____

hahahahahahahhahahahah, haven't seen that acronym in a while.
I didn't find it too long, but just not well constructed in context to the original post, which was also a bit all over the map.

anyway, back to the laser beam focus that is required before wiping. :p

[WinterPalm]

Why is this place so full of children? I must be insane to keep coming here...

[David Jamieson]

Why is this place so full of children? I must be insane to keep coming here...

People who conflict with your views and do not validate them equate to children?

ok.

still, just be happy with what you got.

[FatherDog]

hahahahahahahhahahahah, haven't seen that acronym in a while.
I didn't find it too long, but just not well constructed in context to the original post, which was also a bit all over the map.

anyway, back to the laser beam focus that is required before wiping. :p

I just thought it was funny that the third sentence of his post was "I don't care much for long-winded posts".