Are 10 years enough time to study?

[SPJ]

I heard that some master in the east coast will go the remoteness with 100 students to train for 10 years.

All will be supported by funds from the foundation.

Over the years, I had to go to school, and go to work. I volunteer etc. If I can devote 4 to 6 hours to practice, my teachers were happy already.

The thing is that our bodies and minds can only take or learn so much in a day.

Will 8 to 10 hours or "full time" training advance more and far?

The question is that quality or quantity?

I used to be asked to write 3000 times of the same character with a paint brush every day. My finger, wrist, elbow and shoulder all took pains. My mum knew. She requested that even I wrote characters well for 100 times. There was no need for 3000 bad ones.

The other things are talents and physical built. Some people will learn moves fast and with "ease". Some would be like "never get it" despite of all efforts.

What is your opinion about this?

:D

[Sifu Darkfist]

yes it is true that some people can train a move a billion times and you can do it right the first. No there is no time on mastery ever and there never will be.
I have a one year I repeat a ONE YEAR student that i feel could easily hold his own in combat. That is what this is about right? the Real use of martial arts?
or else we could change the name to wushu acrobat forum.the one thing i find in my styles history is that it is a bunch of ass whoopers that taught martial arts not a bunch of artists that taught martial arts.

[Yum Cha]

I think the issue is misplaced. Kung Fu is a journey, not a destination. When you are young and fit, you learn to fight hard. When you get older, you learn to fight well. As you get older still you learn to do more with less. And as you get older still, you learn that less is more. I can't say for sure now, but I suspect that the discoveries do not cease as long as you keep up the search.

I believe in the journey of 10,000 steps. And, as I alluded to earlier, there are different things for people of different ages as well. The measure isn't against your brothers and sisters, your measure is against yourself. False idols and all that rot...

The idea of 10 years of pure isolated Kung Fu training is counterproductive to me. Training to me is to become a well rounded individual, not a pit-bull, a eunoch, or a socio-pathic monk.

Darkfist, as your Sig is relevant to this thread, could you explain? On the surface it seems rather shallow. As being born with talent is the only measure, and that effort and discipline are secondary. Am I mis-interpreting?

[Brad]

I think 8 hours a day training is too much for a lot of people. Also, I think the isolation would probably hurt their ability... especially those who are less gifted. Most people have the ability to "get it" if they want to (and their teacher knows what he/she's doing. I can't think of too many traditional techniques that can't be learned with proper instruction and good effort from the student. And sparring outsiders will only help... seeing things from different angles and all that.

I'm pretty tired of all the traditional ego BS. Too much worrying about image, and not enough worrying about improvement.

[David Jamieson]

While their would be benefits in the early beginnings and depending on the teacher, perhaps a litle longer, but 10 years is too long, the law of diminishing returns would occur more suddenly than in the normal course of ones training life.

Probably after 8 hours every day in the first two years or so, the material would run out. and you would be standing there with 8 years of review and practice because there's no more material.

I can't think of anyone who possesses enough knowledge to transmit for 10 years 8 hours a day.

retreats to a mountain are something taht one does personally but with 100 people? that sound more like someone wants to found something like a monastery and have it be there right away as opposed to letting it grow over time.

impatience and forcing the path do not bring kungfu, or skill, or anything. They just take away from time you could spend living a real life and still finding your own kungfu.

I would put that under the monumental waste of time section.

[Sifu Darkfist]

Darkfist, as your Sig is relevant to this thread, could you explain? On the surface it seems rather shallow. As being born with talent is the only measure, and that effort and discipline are secondary. Am I mis-interpreting?[/QUOTE]

Real Skill comes without effort, is not at all shallow but it is simplistic and complicated at the same time. Real skill is that motion that is ingrained in your physical and mental capabilities. it starts with the true realization of your personal limitations. then with the Guidance of your Sifu you work within the framework of your capabilities. Everyone is born with a natural ability to protect their well being or interests, however not everyone can do so in the same way. Some of us are strong mentally and can simply outwit others, some have a mean kick to the knee that is faster than others, and some can execute a whole martial arts system flawlessly. However each path leds to the need for self preservation a fundamental neccesity. So it is up to you and everyone to train within their own personal capabilities and perfect those until they come without effort

[TAO YIN]

interesting thread,

it depends on what perspectives a person holds and can continue to hold, what a person wants to accomplish physically and mentally, and that's only the beginning. training such as this numbs a person. mentally speaking, such training can make a person lose sight of how society works as a whole, what reality is for society at large, and so on to name a few. special forces teams train to kill a lot. some of those guys are the nicest people in the world socially, and some of those guys end up not being able to cope with society whatsoever. physically, over time it can teach a person that more is less, that the simplest is always the most profound, and that there is nothing new under the sun. such training can enable a person to be insanely calm under stress; that is to have his/her gross motor reflexes always work according to how they work during training (probably one of the most difficult things to achieve). and all of what i said, such training can do the exact opposite to a person, or something in between.

cheers

[Yum Cha]

When you put it that way Darkfist, I not only understand what you are saying but agree with you. After a certain amount of training, under a good Sifu, you will find your own natural interpretation and that will work most effectively for you - 'effortlessly'. Is that about it?

I also believe, that once you reach that point, the next step is to start learning the things that don't come that naturally to the point that they do. Eventually that "comfort zone" becomes larger. Also, each of us developes our own 'signature' techniques, and that fits into this equation as well.

With this cloistered training we're talking about, we shouldn't forget that eventually a spiritual as well as internal aspects came into play. The external, as
David intoned, probably becomes exhausted at some point.

[Sifu Darkfist]

both Tao Yin and Yum Cha are examples of well adapted open minded martial artists that we all can learn from excellent posts guys. BTW has anyone noticed how close martial and marital are? lol

[Yum Cha]

Gee Darkfist, are you always so easily fooled?

:p

Anyway, thanks for the props. Its nice to have some new blood on the board.

[SPJ]

Here is the story link;

news (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2005/08/16/the_masters_next_move/)

Much respect.

:cool:

[David Jamieson]

so yang bought some woods and is going to go there.

I don't know how many students are going to go for the full ten years. sounds like he wants company on his retirement. :p

changes teh context of the idea vastly after reading the article.
seems more like he's setting up a kungfu retreate for himself first and of course he will be able to capatilize on it.

pretty sweet deal really.

[SPJ]

Ten years are only an arbitrary number.

4 to 6 hours/day and 2 years may be durable number for some.

And yet some may need more than 10 years.

Master Liu was on horse stance only for 3 years.

Ba Gua students are asked to walk in circle for 5 years before anything else.

As pointed out earlier in the thread, MA is a journey. The fun part is making the trip along the way. The destination is only another stop/start for further journey.

Balance is the game.

Sometimes, time is only relative.

---

:D

[Shaolinlueb]

its all fine and dandy but if the trianing sux they wont get anything out of it. i jsut think it is crap./ no need to isolate yourself for ten years. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: at that news

[TAO YIN]

I want to provide another perspective if I may. Sure, there is no need for isolation for ten years. There is no need for isolation for any amount of time. However, what does isolation do to someone? Specifically, what does isolated training give a martial artist?

Not to go off on a tangent of "internal" here, but I think most people who have felt anything "internal" want to go back there. Depending on how "you" look at it, all of us live in a semi-programmed world. "We" go to work, go home, spend time with family, watch television, play on the net, go to bed, go to training 3 times a week, balance check books, cook if we have time, pay that house off for 30 years, hope for a weeks vacation here and again, completely immerse ourselves into the social norms of our respective societies and cultures, and on, and infinity. I was waiting to flag a taxi down today, as I stood there, I thought, "heave for bid if i walk, run, or jog 8 miles back home." I can't remember the last time I actually got up and changed a channel. I am sitting here typing this, with a cup of coffee, talking on messenger, listening to music, and on, and infinity. If less is really more; why do we have all of these things?

If a person cuts all that away and lives martial arts... Not works it but lives it, they will be skilled. If they have a "tribe" that will go along with them to do so, they will be even more skilled. I really don't like to mention it because it sounds corny, but this is how monks developed these "highest levels" of Gong Fu.

People say that Segovia played guitar 12-15 hours a day while learning. He was a, decent, to say the least, guitar player. Anyways, just another perspective.

[Nick Forrer]

People say that Segovia played guitar 12-15 hours a day while learning. He was a, decent, to say the least, guitar player. Anyways, just another perspective.

Steve Vai did this too. BTW the only Martial artists who I have heard trained for that length (8hrs a day plus) are Emin Boztepe and Steve Morris but Im sure there are others.

[Nick Forrer]

Actually BJ Penn got his BJJ black belt in 3 years and must have had a similiar schedule.

[shaolinboxer]

If he really does this I will be amazed.