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hskwarrior
08-18-2005, 10:13 AM
When it comes to Southern and Northern Spears, what are- if there are any- the differences and similarities. My classmate Sifu Troy Dunwood mentioned that Lau Bun's Spear Form is or has northern influence. But from the other Hung Sing's from around the world and we all have some of the same techniques in it.

So I am wondering, how can you tell if a spear form is northern or southern?


thanks,

hsk

Judge Pen
08-18-2005, 10:17 AM
Well, I've seen some southern spear sets that are left-handed as opposed to right. The rationale, as it was explained to me, was that northern foot-soilders were trained to parry a right-handed spear thrust, so the left-handed spear would have an initial element of surprise. Don't know if that's true, but thats what I was told.

CLFNole
08-18-2005, 10:39 AM
As previously mentioned northern spear is always left-handed, whereas southern spear is "tyically" right-handed.

To futher look at southern spears you want to look at the techniques generally employed. In addition to my own CLF I have seen Hung Gar and Jow Gar play their spears and techniques are similar. The three southern styles I have familiarity with tend to have more staff-oriented techniques, especially CLF and Hung Gar. In fact a number or our spear sets are often referred to as cheung/kwun and could use either (most likely they were derived from staff sets somewhere along the line).

Another difference is in stances as northern spear tends to use more bow stances (gong ma) versus southern which uses more square horse stances (sei ping ma). Differences can also be seen in the manner that you spear, northern the chest is generally square to the target, whereas southern it can many times be sideways to the target much like the spearing movements of a staff set.

Another big difference is that the northern spear sets tend to be a bit more flashy with a lot of moving around and directional changes, switching of hands and generally more difficult maneuvers and techniques.

I have learned 3, CLF spear sets and 2, northern spear sets (one taught to my Sifu from Shek Kin and the other I learned from Sifu Chow Keung, one of GM Chan Sau Chung's top Tai Sing Pek Kwar students). I like all the sets; however the northern sets are definately more difficult and physically challenging. Luckly spear has been one of my better weapons so learning wasn't too bad.

hskwarrior
08-18-2005, 11:17 AM
oh, i see. since you put it that way, then i don't believe that our spear form came from si-mo yuen. it was always recognized as a hung sing (fut San) spear.

i've never really seen too many northern spears before so i am unfamiliar with it but thanks forks.

look forward to every post here.


hsk

Judge Pen
08-18-2005, 11:46 AM
Well, I have a spear form that starts out left-hand forward and switches mid-form to right-hand forward and back again. It's a northern set with a brief trip to the south!

hskwarrior
08-18-2005, 11:58 AM
in our spear form we start out holding it with our left hand. up to the bow, then we change hands and usually stays in the right hand.

so are we saying that with a spear if you right hand is the thrust hand is that right sided? or is the left hand thrusting right sided? i think the right hand is the thrusting hand so that is right sided?!?!?! yeah i think so.

however, there are a lot of times we switch from left hand to right hand from time to time during the set.


hsk

Judge Pen
08-18-2005, 12:09 PM
I'm not sure how you define right-hand or left hand side spear.

In most of my sets, the left-side of the body is forward and the left hand is closer to the tip while the right hand (the thrust-hand?) is at the base of the spear. I consider that to be right handed spear since your dominate hand is the power behind the thrust. That's how I would characterize it anyway.

CLFNole
08-18-2005, 12:53 PM
For left-side spear the left hand is the lead hand (you thrust with the right). It is the opposite for right-side spear.

Southern spear sets and northern spear sets both typically start with the spear in their left hand with southern typically making a change during the opening/bow sequence. Many older souther spear sets start with the spear upside down.

Although I don't know it I know the Chan Family has a Jau Yow Sup Sam Cheung or Left & Right 13 Movements Spear, which switches between left and right side spear play.

We have a Moi Fah Sup Sam Cheung or Plum Flower 13 Movement Spear; however it is a right side spear form.

Sow Choy
08-18-2005, 01:28 PM
North vs South,

CLFNole and I talk of this subject alot... Northern Long weapons seem to have similar movement, whereas Southern long weapons share similarities too...

Single head staff was the original spear for southern styles, lots of pressing, downward strikes, and the strike similiar to casting a fishing line...

Northern Spear seems to develop the small and large circular movements with the spear tip. Also quick footwork and 8 directions in the footwork patterns...

With Pek Kwar style, I noticed alot of movement with the spear head like a snake, which also uses diffenet body movement and feel... While at Shaolin temple I learned alot about their power generation. In our style we keep the back straight and use the legs and waist for power, while it seems to me that in Northen style the shoulders and waist utilize circular movements (like waist rotations when warming up) to help catapult and create a fluid feel to control the spear.

Just my 2 cents...

Joe

Mulong
08-18-2005, 02:01 PM
In the true sense there is no Southern (nan/naahm) or Northern (bei/bak) spear (qiang/cheung); however, technically*, all Chinese spears, should contain “na/nah (hold), lan/laahn (block), zha/jaat (pierce).
*I state technically, because at times I have seen style that define the norm of the weapon.

We must take into account that spear set will usually take on the flavor of its participant; hence, Northern stylist, will have light footwork and more flowery movements, which is usually the normal for Northern styles… Therefore, Southern will possess its unique flavors.

Judge Pen
08-18-2005, 02:13 PM
"La, Na, Cha"

I have a staff form that repeats the La, Na, Cha movements throughout the form. I always thought it would make a good spear form also except that the form would start with the spear tip down.

Mulong
08-18-2005, 02:20 PM
There is possibility that your gwan/gun (staff) is originally a spear set… It is common, that certain staff set have a spear version of it, especially within Southern style or battle field spears, i.e., 16 footers.