Kung Fu Romanticism

[monkeyfoot]

I was discussing with my girlfriend today about how the media presents us with a romantic notion of martial arts. The classic films of old aswell as recent hits like Batman Begins and Kill Bill volume 2 all seem to portray martial training as a romantic thing.

Its the typical cliche of training on a mountain in an almost secret closed door society with a wise old master. Extremes of training are shown, learning is always the hard way and the conditions push the student beyond what would be considered possible.

I was intrigued as to whether things like this ever or do actually exist. Are these just romantic ideas taken to the limits or do these or have these places existed?
And for a better question, has anyone here trained like this?

What do you think, does the media exaggerate martial arts training from how it really is/was? Do you think it exists to the same level today?

craig

[David Jamieson]

the media exagerrates pretty much everything. That is the purpose. Get your interest by appealing to your primal drivers.

the selling of kungfu as a romantic thing is no different than say, army of one commercials that have you thinking you'll be special when you join the army.

hahahahaha, how sad you will be on your first hearing what a maggot you are.


What is interesting is that a great deal of the romantic notions about many things come from those people who have not actually experienced those things. AKA marketing geniuses. lol :p

[monkeyfoot]

So even the stories about the temples in china, stories of 36 chambers, carrying giant boiling hot urns up thousands of steps.....all these things are bu11****?

Its a shame they portray kung fu history as something is wasnt.

craig

[Brad]

There's are/were temples in China where people practice martial arts (still are, though often more comercial)... 36 chambers, etc. though are mostly stories from old fantasy books or movies.

[GreenCloudCLF]

I would have replied sooner but I was in the mountains with my master learning the secret of the Five point palm exploding heart technique.

Anyways...of course it exists. Isn't that how everyone trains? :rolleyes:

[TenTigers]

I think you can get training like that on Paris Island

[GreenCloudCLF]

I don't know about Paris Island...I did my bid up at Rikers

nahmsayin

[GeneChing]

I remember watching a video on Budo with soem kendo sensei back when I was a kendoka. It showed all these practitioners in all these beautific settings, one mountaintops, on the beach, etc. I said "Why doesn't our dojo look like that?" as a sort of jest, to which one of my sensei replied "You can practice wherever you want, as long as you practice." That always stuck with me for some reason.

As for beautiful isolated temples, they still exist. Shaolin and Wudang have some stunningly beautiful temples, not the ones on the tourist track, although they are spectacular in their own way. There are lone small temples all throughout the mountains that are very secluded and still retain some of their natural beauty. As for the notion of secret societies and secret teachings, they don't exist as much anymore since we live in the information age.

To me, the over-romantic image of martial arts comes more from the lack of boring, monotonous training in movies. That and the fact that the student, be he Batman or whoever, always gets it. Most people don't.

[SPJ]

Hollywood is hollywood.

The truth is always in the middle.

--

:D

[monkeyfoot]

Thanks for all the replies - gene good post, it was what I was looking for.

I didnt like the tourist shaolin temple when I went there - it was cliche, commercial and seemed like a shadow of its former self.

When myself and my partner were on the peak of songshan together I remember seeing the faintest image of a temple far away on one of the mountains - I always wondered how to get up there....never found the path.

craig

[Mr Punch]

I've seen some and had relatively reliable hearsay on some...

there are yamabushi on Mount Takao, who although I don't have any evidence of whether they practice budo anymore, they still have esoteric ascetic practices that they've continued for centuries like walking on coals (which is now a bit of a touristy event) and I've seen them meditating in waterfalls in the winter on the backwoods tracks.

There are still horseback dog-shooting archery competitions in many of the Hachimangu temples (the old war god, before any of the imperialist nonsense), but they don't use real dogs anymore.

My father-in-law says it was still common (he's about 55) when he was a kid in his country kendo school in a very traditional town full of old samurai villas like his family's to practice catching the blade of a live katana, and he saw his teacher do it blinfold on several occasions. I see no reason to disbelieve him.

And a lot of the Okinawan te schools had very fierce reps for dropping concrete and iron blocks on you and rolling them up and down on your body... and many karate schools nowadays still have simple warm-ups of punching each other in the stomach ten times, or kicking each other in the stomach ten times before practice... bet that's more hardcore than a lot of the fu schools in most American malls.

I've done things like that in my hsing yi/aikijutsu school, and the teacher is a bit of a psycho with a penchant for those kinds of drills. Hell, even a hundred kokyu dosa with his iron grip hanging on to my wrists have resulted in 3 cm raw wounds opening up... is that hardcore enough for you?! Haven't done the misogi or shugyo with him yet though... and my kendo gasshuku consisted largely of the not very hardcore tennis games to break up the foot-blistering kendo practice!

[GeneChing]

Any place of pilgrimage has its touristy aspects, and today, it's worse since it's so much easier to travel. I often think it's a weird American perspective because we're such a young country, just a little over two centuries old. We don't really have that many pilgrimage spots yet. There are recorded complaints of Shaolin tourism that go back 400 years. If you spend any time in a touristy environment, you quickly learn to distinguish what is sold to tourists and what is locals only. There are always hidden spots. You just got to find the path... ;)

[PangQuan]

A question similar to this popped into my head one day.

In our small, old training area, working by myself. Seeing the holes in the walls, the cracks in the foundation, patched over windows, I realized this is my temple. This is where I sweat and bleed for the art I love. I train and dedicate my self further each day. With the pursuit of nothing in mind other than the act practice. Thats exactly it. Within my mind is my secluded paradise. At that moment when all is forgotten and the momentum is at its peak and I can truly feel all my days of training in one movement. This is when I realized that my training utopia has been found.

Such as the words Gene shared with us, that his Sensei shared with him, as long as you practice...it matters not where.

When you find your place within your self you will find the essence of martial arts romanticism.

A beach, a temple, a frosty mountain top, or a double wide garage with hard bound carpet and large mirrors. Its all the same when you reach the void.

[Willow Palm]

Hollywood spiced things up for marketing in much the same way a new school might do fancy demonstrations to attract students. I've been through a couple schools in my young life, there are a several preferred exercises depending on what ever style you do to increase the fighting aspects.

But I've never been to a Kenpo or Jujitsu school where they take trips to moutains. Once on the moutain you bear crawl down a rough cliffing that's roughly 100 yards at a nearly 45 degree angle, then crane walk down to the bottom. Myths, legends, and even Hollywood movies come from some shread of truth. I do agree though that most people don't get it and leave before obtaining any real benefits.

[monkeyfoot]

PangQuan -
A really inspiring post. Your idea really goes well with a quote from the dalai lama.


There is no need for temples, My brain and my heart are my temples."

I suppose that you can apply this to what you said.....you reach this 'kung fu romanticism' this 'utopia' deep within yourself.....not in any temple.


Gene - Im happy to say though that through our whole trip in china we didnt follow the tourist route, and where it did present itself we took the back paths.....thats exactly how we ended up lost in the pitch black in the middle of the Wuling National park with only the sound of the river to lead us home.

As for shaolin - it felt like I was at school again more than a temple - so many kids. But then, even with touristic places - you can separate yourself and connect to history, its just not as easy.


Craig

[PangQuan]

that is a beautiful quote.

it sounds like you had a good trip, hopefully Ill get my chance some day...

[Vajramusti]

The country is older than 200 years and is full of places for reverence.
From the Creek mounds in Georgia to Cahokia near St Louis to the rock carvings
and cliff buildings in Arizona to places on the bluffs of the Missouri to the totems of the northwest and key natural landmarks-American Indian warriors and non warriors
have left many sacred places-many threatened by development.
The post Columbus world is a small blip in the history of this land.
joy chaudhuri

[joedoe]

My sigung once learned on the side of a mountain and his master lived in a cave, jsut like in a movie :). I have visited the place and it is now a shrine, part of the Nan Putuo Si in Xiamen, Fukien Province, China.

[unkokusai]

My father-in-law says it was still common (he's about 55) when he was a kid in his country kendo school in a very traditional town full of old samurai villas like his family's to practice catching the blade of a live katana, and he saw his teacher do it blinfold on several occasions. !


..............c'mon now.....

[unkokusai]

- Im happy to say though that through our whole trip in china we didnt follow the tourist route


What you want to say is that you are 'proud' of it. Why, I don't know...

[monkeyfoot]

What you want to say is that you are 'proud' of it. Why, I don't know...

unkokusai - Both of your posts are written in a negative/condisending manner. It adds nothing to the thread so keep it out of here.

I would read my post again, I quite clearly said that when we arrived at touristic places we wouldnt follow the crowd and instead found 'other paths', like gene said.
If you prefere touristic overcharged boat rides down a simple river as oppose to renting a cheap bike and exploring it yourself, then go ahead.

craig

again, be constructive with your posts.

[Mr Punch]

..............c'mon now.....I assume you're talking about the blindfold bit. The blade catching itself is not all that unheard of.

I checked with him and he said his sensei did the exercise, not blindfolded, but with his back turned in seiza, and when the swordsman gave his kiai he would turn round and stop the attack. [shrugs]

I've done that excercise with bokuto before, and I can see how it's maybe not that unlikely.

[ShaolinTiger00]

"the only zen you'll find on a mountaintop is the zen you take up there."

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Each fall our Taiji class takes a trip to the Southern Appalachian mountains, Nantahala River area.. we either camp or rent cabins, I always camp by a particular creek, it's just too good.. it's a week of training, embracing natural wonders and spectacular fall colors.. we have a week in our own "mystic" setting.. the energies last for months and are followed by anticipation of the next trip.. It's nice to create a special time with good friends, share some hardships (i.e.: strenuous hikes, cold weather, my camp cooking, training, etc...) and share some super times (i.e.: Taiji by a waterfall, fishing for a trout dinner, spectacular meditations in a unique natural setting, evenings of campfires and friendship, rafting a river, sampling the local moonshine or harvest, etc...)..

We have done this for the last 5 years or so, and this year we expect 10 or more to show up for the fun.. sometimes you can create "mystic moments" in an otherwise mundane routine.. take some time to look beyond the daily grind, you can travel to far away places or just short trips to local natural settings and take your temple with you..

Waking up to the smell of the last evening's campfire, stirring the coals and starting a new flame, putting on the coffee pot, and standing in meditation by a creek for 20-30 minutes while the golden brew comes to life.. a hardy breakfast, some Qigong, some exploring or hiking or fishing.. afternoons of Taiji and training.. a good dinner with friends and evenings of music (flutes, drums, acoustic guitars, didjeridos, voice, etc...) , philosophy, stories, meditation, etc.. yep, there are "temples" all around us..

And, if anyone wants to join us, feel free, the "temple" is big enough for all.. i will be camping at Brookside Campgrounds in Topton N.C... most of the others will be at Nantahala Village Inn, nice cabins nestled in the mountains.. Oct. 10-15.. There are no "wise old masters" here, just people sharing the journey and cultivating wisdoms of their own..

Be well..

[David Jamieson]

Environment plays a large role in ones state of mind. With the right environment, a particularly desired mindset can be facilitated perhaps more easily.

Heck, people romanticize Nascar, why not anything else? :p

[unkokusai]

I assume you're talking about the blindfold bit. The blade catching itself is not all that unheard of.

I checked with him and he said his sensei did the exercise, not blindfolded, but with his back turned in seiza, and when the swordsman gave his kiai he would turn round and stop the attack. [shrugs]

I've done that excercise with bokuto before, and I can see how it's maybe not that unlikely.


I'm gonna have to go with ........c'mon now........ again.

[unkokusai]

unkokusai - Both of your posts are written in a negative/condisending manner. It adds nothing to the thread so keep it out of here.

again, be constructive with your posts.


I think you are missing an important point here, which is: Bite me you self-important poseur.

[SPJ]

Romanticism with places and ideas will happen anywhere.

Yes, you may find zen in life anywhere including on the moon or in the space station.

MA practices are hard work and hard work.

Only when you do it over and over and one day you decided that it is not work anymore.

Have fun.

:D

[monkeyfoot]

Thanks again to everyone for their input.

TaiChiBob - I would love to do something like what you explained. I think the effects of it would last for so long after aswell. There nothing quite like nature, its just so many people dont spend enough time to look at it.
I would really love to one day go to the 'rockies'. Every picture I have seen looks so beautiful....black bears, pine trees, fresh rivers...... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

craig