Sifu Leung Ting vid clip

[brothernumber9]

On the main forum inside of the thread titled something like "Video: Sifu Talks" there is wing tsun clip with old footage of Leung Ting. It's probably nothing new for most of you, but for anyone else who hasn't seen it, it's pretty cool to see.

[lawrenceofidaho]

On the main forum inside of the thread titled something like "Video: Sifu Talks" there is wing tsun clip with old footage of Leung Ting. It's probably nothing new for most of you, but for anyone else who hasn't seen it, it's pretty cool to see.
That old footage looks kinda cool, but just remember that it's basically a choreographed demo with minimal resistance.

(Kenpo, Tae Kwon Do, and Aikido also look pretty impressive under those types of circumstances.)

How many people have seen LT face a skilled, uncooperative opponent before? (Just curious.)

-Lawrence

[IRONMONK]

cool demo

Last i saw him it was at a seminar and even though he was showing applications his speed and explosiveness was pretty impressive and looked like someone who could fight against skilled opponents.
I have never seen him fight a skilled resisting opponent
I heard he did fight Kernspecth (who was skilled at other martial arts) and had no problems dealing with him.

[wingtsunmonk]

I have people in my group, along with my Sihing, that have seen LT take Emin Boztepe apart when the organization was still together.

[stricker]

he only looks a little dude, and emin is pretty burly and he's got skills so thats impressive.

i've seen a few little clips of leung ting in action, and have you ever noticed he doesnt really look like he's doing the textbook wing chun eg rigid-ass chum kiu footwork tan sao all perfect no stuff straight out of the sentences etc he's much more fluid and natural. funny that hehehe

[lawrenceofidaho]

I have people in my group, along with my Sihing, that have seen LT take Emin Boztepe apart when the organization was still together.
LT has stated in personal conversations that because he did his training with GM Yip Man, when YM was at an advanced age and in rather poor physical condition, he only offered moderate resistance to GM Yip Man and let him complete many of his attacks which he felt he could have defended if he'd chi-sau'd with him a bit more vigorously........ Also, aside from the physical mismatch, he said it was important that he held back out of respect for GM Yip Man as well.

Knowing LT's aforementioned attitudes about teacher-student relationships, why would EB ever go "full on" and dominate LT in a public chi-sau game? -It would only have caused LT to lose face, and then made him upset at EB, which would have resulted in;

1) Slowing or halting of instruction for EB in the advanced WT programs
2) Diminished moneymaking opportunities offered from the WT organization
3) Diminished respect (i.e.- black-balling) from the WT community at large

LT is a smaller, older, less-athletic man, with minimal fighting experience, while EB is a younger, athletic, heavyweight with a great deal of fight experience.

Go to the following website to check out some LT demos posted in Aug 2004, and watch closely how he moves:
http://www.martialarts.dk/videoklip.asp

-even though these are choreographed demos, he still has some trouble executing the techniques. It will be fairly fairly obvious to a fighter of any style that LT does not have much fighting experience based on what you see on those clips. -And before you say; "it is because he is getting older that he moves like that." -take a look at the recent clips on Gary Lam's webpage (Gary is about the same age as LT) and watch how he moves. It is like the difference between night and day.......

I have crossed hands with both, and though LT may have a WT trick (or two) up his sleeve, he would be easily destroyed by Sifu Emin if there were any real intent involved in the exchange.

-Lawrence

[Fajing]

and though LT may have a WT trick (or two) up his sleeve, he would be easily destroyed by Sifu Emin if there were any real intent involved in the exchange.


I believe it. Boztepe looks outstanding. He would woop some serious a$$.

[wingtsunmonk]

Lawrence,

I recognize the weakness in my statement and apparently so have you. Speaking from a 3rd person point of view leaves one open to critisism. However, let me point out a few things about your reply and mine.

Quote
why would EB ever go "full on" and dominate LT in a public chi-sau game?
End Quote

Whoever said the encounter I spoke of was a "chi-sau game?" Why in the world would LT put himself in that situation for exactly those reasons you stated? To risky in my opinion.

Your assumption that LT and EB where training their reflexes in chi-sao is incorrect.

Quote
LT has stated in personal conversations......
End Quote

Are you that close with LT that he personally has revealed these tings to you? Based on my personal interaction with LT, I doubt it. I have seen first hand the discrimination he shows to those people of non-chinese heritage and would say he would be quicker to call you "gui-lo" (SP?) and take your money with his patened "KaChing-Sao" than take you into confidence and tell you such personal things.

Quote
LT is a smaller, older, less-athletic man, with minimal fighting experience
End Qutoe

Two things about this. First, I think your "minimal fighting experience" is an assumption on your part. Again, are you that close to LT that you can account for all of his fighting encounters? I am not trying to say the opposite, that he has alot of fighting experience, I don't know and I don't think you do either.

Second, if you are going to start relying on physical size and condition then I think you are forgetting the origins of WT/WC. This kung fu style was created by, and for, smaller weaker opponents to defend themselves against larger, stronger people. How could WT/WC have survived if the originators relied on physical size and strength? Wasn't this art created by a rather small Chinese woman who, by applying WT/WC, whooped butt and became legendary?

While I respect your questioning of my statement, which I would do also if someone were to speak in a 3rd person POV, I don't think your arguements hold up.

I welcome your comments on the subject but, offline, I would rather talk to you about your experiences with LT, EB and the AWTO. I was a part of the AWTO for awhile and was right in the middle of things when the AWTO began to break apart. Lemme know if this interests you.

Regards... :)

[lawrenceofidaho]

Whoever said the encounter I spoke of was a "chi-sau game?.......Your assumption that LT and EB where training their reflexes in chi-sao is incorrect.
Would you please elaborate then, as to what they were doing? (Thanks.)




Are you that close with LT that he personally has revealed these tings to you? Based on my personal interaction with LT, I doubt it. I have seen first hand the discrimination he shows to those people of non-chinese heritage
I wasn’t trying to imply that I was in some way a “confidant” of LT, or that he was divulging a big secret…….. He simply mentioned this at a small instructors seminar years ago, while he was elaborating on his opinion of the proper respect and deference that should be shown to one’s sifu.

At a later time another instructor told me that the same thing had been related to him during an informal conversation. (I just don’t think I’ve ever heard him say anything quite like that in an open public forum.)


he would be quicker to call you "gui-lo" (SP?) and take your money with his patened "KaChing-Sao" than take you into confidence and tell you such personal things.
LOL!! I think “KaChing-Sao” is his favorite technique. –He definitely hit me with that one a few times……

:p


I think your [statement about his ]"minimal fighting experience" is an assumption on your part. Again, are you that close to LT that you can account for all of his fighting encounters? I am not trying to say the opposite, that he has alot of fighting experience, I don't know and I don't think you do either.
Monk, it sounds like you know him a bit. –Do you really think he would have any fighting experiences (at least ones where he happened to be on the winning end) that he wouldn’t be boasting about frequently and mentioning in all of his books? (Though I’m reasonably sure he wouldn’t be talking much about fights he may have lost.)


Second, if you are going to start relying on physical size and condition then I think you are forgetting the origins of WT/WC.
IMO, physical size and condition will always be a factor in any fight.


This kung fu style was created by, and for, smaller weaker opponents to defend themselves against larger, stronger people. How could WT/WC have survived if the originators relied on physical size and strength?
A tae kwon do instructor once told me the same thing about his art………


Wasn't this art created by a rather small Chinese woman who, by applying WT/WC, whooped butt and became legendary?
Are you that close with Ng Mui that she personally has revealed these things to you?
;)


While I respect your questioning of my statement, which I would do also if someone were to speak in a 3rd person POV, I don't think your arguements hold up.
This is really all just speculation (what if?) about a theoretical contest between two martial artists, (kinda like a kung fu version of fantasy football) so I’m not going to take it too seriously. –I just laid out an opinion based on my experience with both of the aforementioned gentlemen, and you did the same. I don’t mind that we disagree about it, cause it’s just for fun anyways, right?
:)
-Lawrence

[Fajing]

IMO, physical size and condition will always be a factor in any fight.-Lawrence


I have to agree with Lawrence here. I'm 6'1'' and 165lbs. When I spar with a friend of mine who is slightly taller and 270lbs, and he hits me with a double palm strike, you might think I were Superman(airborn). That massive body weight puts some serious pressure on me in comparrison to individuals more my size. Size and weight are certainly a big issue in physical confrontations. Imagine if BIG SHOW had you in his clutches. :eek: THAT WOULD SUCK! I just try to be fast, powerfull, and end the confrontation with haste, or get the hell out of there. :D

[wingtsunmonk]

Lawrence,

Quote
Are you that close with Ng Mui that she personally has revealed these things to you?
End Quote

Yeah, I used to date Ng Mui..Yeah, That's the ticket.. As a matter of fact, I was dating Morgan Fairchild behind Ng Mui's back. Yeah, yeah..... (Tribute to John Lovitz)

You sound like a good guy lawrence and I would also agree that it is simply speculation on both parts.

I don't necessarily disagree with you that physical size and condition don't play a factor, but for me I cannot shake the idea that this art was created by a woman who did not have superior size, or maybe possibly conditioning, and "by legend" was able to kick butt with it. Again some "kick butt" speculation on my part.

To focus too much on physical size and conditioning, IMO, leads a person away from the soft flowing nature of WT/WC. I guess I have just encoutered too many knuckle heads that think physical size and conditioning is the "end all" for a WT/WC practioner. (Not to imply anything towards anyone around this post and forum)

As for the "confrontation," It was a simple matter of "Come at me with whatever you have." No chi-sao, just one person attacking the other in any form or fashion.

Thanks for your input lawrence. I have to admit I don't post like this too often becuase I normally run into "attitude" or "my sifu will beat up your sifu" mentality. Thanks for proving me wrong.

[AndrewS]

Lawrence, WTM,

I've heard this EB/LT thing back and forth before and after the split, and have watched people change their minds on the issue from side to side several times (i.e. one person going from thinking LT had the hidden tricks, then Emin would dominate, then LT, etc.). I have my opinions, but frankly, that's all guessing. I've never heard of anyone seeing the two of them working completely free in any format, and have, rarely seen LT work in anything other than the most controlled conditions.

I have watched Emin watching Leung Ting teaching, and have seen him pick stuff out to keep- seen how he did find some merit in it.

Who could win that fight? Who really cares?

Who can make me a better fighter? I know the answer to that one.

Andrew

[wingtsunmonk]

If I'm hearing you correctly Andrew, the one who can make you a better fighter can do it without clearing out your bank account. :)

WTM