DVD study

[zmaj]

I have wanted to start learning some style of kung fu because i am really impresed with elegance and beauty of movements in some of the artists iv seen in different style's

now i did other asian martial arts before, but never anything chinese, and i would like to get started

problem is im moving away in about 2-3 years and town im moving to has no kung fu schools, they have other martial arts, but no kung fu

now what i was hoping to be able to do is start my study and get what i can and when i move order dvd's to build on that, now i never did any instructional dvd's and lott of people say they'r useless unless you already know things on there and are only good as a reference, which then beats the point of what i would do, because what i can take with me i can just practice and try to keep fresh

now in my area there is a hung gar kung fu school and a southern shaolin school, supposed to be a lohan school too but have some kind of a cult following ideals there, so thats out of a question

now if i started either one of those and did them for 2 years would i be able to continue on my own?

[TenTigers]

yes, you would certainly be able to pick up the forms from the DVD's after establishing a decent foundation at a school of that style.
That being said, the reality is, all you would be doing is learning the forms, the skin and hair-the outside appearance, but not the applications or the skills. These require constant hands on training. Kung-Fu is taught by direct transmission, not observation. You must touch and be touched (not sure I like the way that sounded!) :eek:
So it really depends on what you want to achieve. You can collect all the forms of an entire system, and even perform them well, but it in no way means you will be able to fight using that system's techniques

[IronFist]

If you're moving in 2-3 years you have plenty of time to study now.

As for DVDs, if you have martial art experience it will be a lot easier for you than if you were a complete beginner.

[Chief Fox]

I could be wrong but as I understand it, Hung Gar is a very compact system. Meaning you might be able to get through the whole thing in 3 years if you really apply yourself. Then when you move start your own club.

[SimonM]

Sorry Cheif Fox, gotta disagree with you. I strongly oppose the "three year BB phenomenon" in any guise. I've been practicing for a little over three years now and when people ask me to teach them I refuse and refer them to somebody more experienced.

It's not that I suck. I've had my fair share of scraps in the ring (they seem to avoid me outside of the ring, fights tend not to happen when I am around for some reason :( :confused: :D ) and altough I have gotten my ass handed to me a few times I've won a few as well. I know a fair number of forms and have a vast repitoire of partner drills. I just honestly don't think that it does the martial arts any favours to start instructing before you have a goodly heap of experience behind you.

[Ben Gash]

A) just because you can't find it on the internet doesn't mean there's no kung fu. These days most middle sized towns have some kung fu, you might need to dig a bit.
B) After 3 years in Hung you're likely to know most of the stuff that's available on most decent standard instructional sets. Wing Lam offers the whole lot, but Gene (who helped make them) has said that there are a few mistakes due to the speed they were made. Mind you, at least half of the others are deliberately altered, so there you are. Personally I find it fairly easy to learn stuff off tape (which is really handy as one of my Sifus is 7000 miles away, so I can only see him annually at best), but I've done a lot of kung fu for a long time. However, as has already been pointed out, you do need partnered practice.
C) I think it's kind of an individual thing as to whether people can teach at 3 years, and dependant as well on how much they've trained in those 3 years. I don't think you can go in planning on teaching in 3 years time though (well I could, but I am a black sash in 2 related styles ;) ).

[David Jamieson]

I have Kungfu and Tai Chi practitioners that number about 8 on my street alone! :eek:

It's probably the most martially active neighbourhood I've ever lived in.

A few of them go to schools, but a couple of the old guys got real good tai chi...

anyway, I didn't know it until I got to know my neighbourhood...if ya get my inference.

Having said that, if you are able to learn from a dvd or video, go for it, lots of people do this, I've done it, my teachers former and current have done it and if it wasn't acceptable, there wouldn't be any masters of integrity such as there are producing such media.

Have a little common sense though and when you have questions, seek to have them answered at teh source. There's always a number or address on every media piece that is produced and like any product that is worthwhile, will have someone standing behind it.

[superCool]

I learned BJJ from a CD-ROM and tapes. And even used the elbow-knee escape in a real fight agianst shaolin tiger. But i think tapes and CD-ROMS suck for making you a better fighter. They are only good if you don't have any schools to train at.

[Chief Fox]

Sorry Cheif Fox, gotta disagree with you. I strongly oppose the "three year BB phenomenon" in any guise. I've been practicing for a little over three years now and when people ask me to teach them I refuse and refer them to somebody more experienced.

It's not that I suck. I've had my fair share of scraps in the ring (they seem to avoid me outside of the ring, fights tend not to happen when I am around for some reason :( :confused: :D ) and altough I have gotten my ass handed to me a few times I've won a few as well. I know a fair number of forms and have a vast repitoire of partner drills. I just honestly don't think that it does the martial arts any favours to start instructing before you have a goodly heap of experience behind you.
Well, like I said, I could be wrong. But I thought that Hung Gar was a military system designed so a practioner could be proficient within a few years. And notice I said club, not school. I see a club as a place where people get together and share ideas and practice. A school of course is where you go to learn.

[GeneChing]

but Gene (who helped make them) has said that there are a few mistakes There's an interesting notion in the martial arts that any book or video or hands-on direct lesson can be 'perfect' as in the Platonic ideal form. Martial arts are a live vital practice - an art that only occurs at the moment of practice - akin to music and dance. It's not static, like say painting or sculpture. Now you can capture martial arts in video, just like you can capture music and dance, but the notion of it being perfect is a bit misplaced. For that matter, just like a song might pick up a few variations when passed from one person to another, the same might happen in a form. In fact, I could argue that if your form looks exactly like your master's rendition, unless you are exactly parallel to him or her physically, mentally, spiritually, your form is imperfect. It may be perfect that way for your master, but not for you. You are unique and therefore, your art must be unique.

But back on topic, I'm also amused whe4never anyone brings up the old 'learning form DVD/video' question how many people will jump on it with the 'just getting the skin' answer. This is true, of course, but I could again argue that many students just get the skin from those hands-on direct lessons. Bodhidharma taught his disciple Daofu directly and Daofu only grasped the 'skin' of his teachings (and with a master like Bodhidharma, that's saying something about direct transmission). There is no doubt that video/DVD is inferior to hands-on direct lessons, but it is still a lesson. If you are a serious student, you engage every possible media to learn more about your style. You learn from many masters - by taking direct lessons and observing their demonstrations at tournaments and such. You learn from videos and DVDs - so if you're looking at Hung Gar, you check out my old Sifu Wing Lam's stuff, you check out Frank Yee's stuff and Chiu Chi Ling's stuff and every single vidoe you can lay your hands on. You learn from books and articles - especially Kung Fu Tai Chi (http://www.martialartsmart.net/19341.html) ;) . You learn from watch tigers and cranes. That's the journey of martial arts - the warrior's journey - it's a quest to find yourself.

zmaj asked:
would i be able to continue on my own? Wake up, zmaj! WAKE UP! We are all on our own. I hope you pursue your path fervently and exhaust all possible resources to find your own way.

[Mel]

Thank you for that post, Gene. It was very inspiring, especially to someone like me who is just returning to kung fu after a 20 year hiatus.

[Samurai Jack]

Excellent post Gene. Indeed we are "all on our own." In the end, a master can do little more than point the way.

[BlueTravesty]

If nothing else, you could train hung gar in your area now, until you move, and then get the videos to help assist you in your practice. You may not "advance" in the heirarchical sense (as in getting higher rank in your class) but you will be able to hone and polish the skills you acquire for the time being, as well as a strong foundation in the basic skills of your chosen art.

[IronFist]

Yup. Something is better than nothing. Three years from now would you rather have "some" training or "no" training?

[zmaj]

I noticed everyone pointing to hung gar, so that means that the Shaolin school is out of question? Is Shaolin harder to master?

Now I undertstand having a partner to study with makes a huge difference off course, I'v run through sparing drills on my own before and when doing it with a partner it would be different because even though a mid section punch is a mid section punch, there is always a little difference in height, speed and pulling back the technique so applying techniques you learn from forms wont work so smooth at first so off course it takes practice.

But hopefully, likes its been mentioned, I could start a club and find people with interest in the art.

[SimonM]

I noticed everyone pointing to hung gar, so that means that the Shaolin school is out of question? Is Shaolin harder to master?
.

Hung Gar is one of a plethora of martial arts derived from Shaolin. The Shaolin branch of Gong Fu is truly immense. No one person could master all of it. There are hundreds of styles with thousands of forms within it. When you do Hung Gar you are advancing one of the many arts that owes it's existence to Shaolin. :)

[Ben Gash]

Um, it was you who said it was out of the question in the original post :confused:

[SimonM]

No, I just said he shouldn't call himself a sifu and hang up a sign. I'm all for him practicing it. ;)