Spirits in Chinese Medicine; possession, death and dying

[vikinggoddess]

I am wondering what anyone know or has learned about Chinese medicine perspective on spirit, death and dying. I am remembering that the Hun is the Liver spirit, Po the Lung spirit.. which ascends is that correct? Also wondering about spirit possession and use of ghost points to extract spirits. Is anyone familiar with these kinds of techiques?

[PlumDragon]

Not familiar with the ghost stuff...

But you might want to search on spirit, or "shen". Jing, qi, and shen are the 3 treasures, shen being and is part of mental capacity, consciousness, and "being".

While less pertinent, you may consider looking into "essence" or "jing", which is one of the 5 textures, or as some call them, substances. It is divided into prenatal and postnatal jing and might be something for you to look into...

[Pakmei]

There is a protocol for what is known as spirit possession in acupuncture, which is called the Dragon Treatment.

In fact there are 2 such protocols:

7 Internal Dragons - which is primarily used for people suffering from dementia, drug, mental, emotional, sexual and psychological abuse. It is where the person spirit has been suppressed because of such traumatic events as listed.

7 External Dragons - are primarily used for people that have suffered from an external cause (such as violent confrontation, verbal abuse, torture, etc) that has scattered their qi with shock and allowed space for them to become 'possessed'.

I have actually used both these treatments with some very surprising results.

Had a patient with sucidial tendancies due to a trauma that was caused during surgery.... she kept on saying that "she wasn't herself anymore and that she couldn't see the point in living!" - which is very serious when the patient is telling you things like this.

I performed the Internal & External Dragons in one treatment - as soon as I finished needling the last point on the Internal dragons, the patients character completely changed - she became a lot more assertive, her voice changed and became stronger and on a whole more confident in herself to be able to deal with the situation she found herself in.

I still see her on a regular basis, but she certainly doesn't have the sucidial feelings anymore - she gave me a card thanking me for my help in giving her life back - where the Doctors at the hospital didn't really understand what to do with her.

They are very powerful treatment protocols, and generally only used when either one of the above categories comes into the equation and/or if for some reason that the treatment doesn't seem to be working.

The Dragons - are a way of clearing any and all blockages that the person may have that is preventing them from moving on, and living their life.

[herb ox]

Without divulging the actual points used, can you elaborate briefly on the priciples behind the treatments - i.e. fortifying shen, gathering qi, etc.... It seems the mental illnesses would be a manefestation of disrupted Yi and Shen, but then again, I'm just a first year student of TCM...

peace
herb ox

[vikinggoddess]

Thank you.. yes I recall some exposure to the two 7 dragon's method. Can you please explain the theory behind the use of these points and the method? I am also wondering if you take safety precautions as do those who perform entity extractions by other means. So like where is the possessed spirit going after it is extracted by this method? Alberto Villodo's "Shaman healer sage" he shares extraction methods...similar for ppl like your suicidal case. Part of his technique involves manual stimulation of acupuncture points on the back of the skull. The enity or energy if pulled out manually then tranfered to a cystal. Thihs is Inca shamanic way. my teacher's method is safer in her opinion.. uses crystals to pull out energy/entities.

Are the ghost point part of the seven dragon protocol or different. remembering now also the spirit burrial ground points. Can you share please the protocol or a text with the protocol? Is this a 5e stlye method or did it survive into TCM?

Thinking also that an identifiable entity could be pulled also by cupping with a speific type of crystal inside to catch it.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

I am wondering what anyone know or has learned about Chinese medicine perspective on spirit, death and dying. I am remembering that the Hun is the Liver spirit, Po the Lung spirit.. which ascends is that correct? Also wondering about spirit possession and use of ghost points to extract spirits. Is anyone familiar with these kinds of techiques?

don't try that again. i'm ready for you. :rolleyes:

my quatl will shatter your crystals!

try not to confuse metaphors. there are analogs in tcma to the facilitators in a more modern cult that seems to dominate the state where you reside. in tcma they are gong li, or hopping hungry ghosts. in western magic and general animism they are malicious predatory spirits.

how do you get rid of them? how do you kill a soul?

in chinese folklore if you kill someone or even thier dreams/hopes/ aspirations you make the desire for that to be thiers more prominant. this can have a lasting affect on the person's soul and Karma such that if they make it to the after life they can become a problem for you as a hungry ghost. consider it karmic retribution or even karmic reversal. :cool:

as for folk remedies to predatory spirits in tcm: banging metal sets up a vibration that can chase the being from you (by giving it head ache!). also in tcfolklore metal when new can trap the spirit and even record the impressions of the spirit and/or it's thoughts. bronze gongs and metal mirrors were often common items at temples for exorcism. if your needle 'tinged' at some point it may have completed a change/exchange solidified a possession attempt or freed someone from a possession attempt. again, just folk lore.

there's really no telling what happens in a person's mind to suddenly force a dramatic change.

[vikinggoddess]

"as for folk remedies to predatory spirits in tcm: banging metal sets up a vibration that can chase the being from you (by giving it head ache!). also in tcfolklore metal when new can trap the spirit and even record the impressions of the spirit and/or it's thoughts. bronze gongs and metal mirrors were often common items at temples for exorcism. if your needle 'tinged' at some point it may have completed a change/exchange solidified a possession attempt or freed someone from a possession attempt. again, just folk lore."

Yes also rattles are used by shaman. Thank you for the info on the metal. That is interesting. This makes sense as to why acupuncture can be effective.

As to folk lore... most of TCM is considered folklore to Western minded peoples. This doesn't make it invalid.

As to killing a spirit.. I think not necessary. The idea is to release the spirit from it's parasitic energetic relationship with the human. They can be released back into elements.. earth, water, fire to air.

[herb ox]

Vikinggoddess,

A bulletin came across my desk the other day - Jeffrey C. Yuen will be teaching a 2 day seminar in San Fransisco Jan 7-8, 2006 on the "Contemporary uses of acupuncture for possession". Apparently he has an extensive Daoist background. If you can't make the seminar, maybe you can track him down online!


good luck,
herb ox

[vikinggoddess]

Thanks for the info.

[Buddy]

Ignore YuenZDZ, the troll,
His transformer set broke.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Pakmei knows his stuff, we have both been trained in pretty much the same styles of TCM, but at different colleges.

The 7 internal and external dragons treatment does not follow normal treatment principles in terms of tonifying shen or balancing the hun etc. It is a standard stand alone treatment for heavy conditions, and is normally just refered to as treatments for posession.
One set is done on the front of the body and the other 7 on the back of the body depending whether its internal or external dragons you're doing.

The realse of the dragons traditionally was meant to ultimate devour the malign spirits habitating in the body.
Of course nowadays they term the treatment for obsessive/posessive complaints ranging from long term drug absuse, to s3xual abuse, and mind controlling abuse such as heavy occult practice etc.
Outside of that naturally one can use general spirit points to unblock the shen, balance the hun etc.

The hun is a usual one for say heavy drug use as it helps to re-align the hun (or astral body) which when out alingment one gets subtle energy absorption which can result in in extreme vivd dreams, hearing voices, seeing things, halucinations etc which nowadays gets classified under mental illness.

The Po is considered by some to be responsible for what are claimed to be ghosts that haunt places, it is part of the spirit that is nostalgic, its the spirit of the lungs, and as the Lungs are part of the Metal elemnt its easy to understand under 5 element theory why being "stuck in the past" , "clinging on to the past" "not being able to move on" etc applies to the lung spirit.
The Shen is what ascends and passes over as it were as it is the most essential part of the spirit. Lonnie Jarret's "Nourishing destiny" is an excellent book to get a greater depth about Chinese thought on the spirits and their associated organs from a TCM perpsective.

Literautre on 7 dragons methodology and practice is extremely rare to find.

[vikinggoddess]

Thanks for the info.
Yes I have Jarret's book.
Good stuff.
If anyone can refer me to a text with info on 7 Dragon's treatment method and origin, I appreciate that.

[Pakmei]

Lonny Jarrett does have another book called something like "Chinese Medicine in Practice".

It's a very heavy, thick red book which details the possession treatment in quite some detail and giving some case histories using this unique protocol.

[vikinggoddess]

http://www.yinyanghouse.com/chinesetheory/theory/classical_fiveelement.html#treatment1

¤ Symptoms:

A patient who has internal a/or external dragons may be experiencing a lack of control over aspects of their body, mind or spirit. From a practitioners perspective, this is usually experienced as an inability to communicate directly with the patient, even feeling uncomfortable around the patient. If you cannot look directly into their eyes and speak with them, if you feel you are not getting honest responses to your questions, if you feel they are not quite connected with themselves - these may indicate this particular block.

This may show up, but not necessarily so, in patients with histories of drug and/or alcohol abuse, in patients who indicate that they feel "out of control," or in patients where other treatments have proven unsuccessful.

External Dragons are specifically noted when a patient has the above symptoms and has experienced extreme weather or climates or an external trauma such as an accident or trauma prior to experiencing these symptoms.

¤ Treatment Points

External Dragons Internal Dragons
GV 20 1/4" below CV 15
UB 11 ST 25
UB 23 ST 32
UB 61 ST 41

¤ Treatment Protocol:

You usually begin with the ID treatment unless it is not called for. All needles should be interested from right to left, top to bottom with perpendicular insertions. After the insertion they should be dispersed in the order they were inserted. What you are looking for is a noticeable change in the patient, in their colour, sound, odour, emotion and shen. Once you see the change you are looking for, the needles should be removed. If there is no change after 15 minutes, you should tonify the needles from left to right and top to bottom removing them as you go and continue the treatment with the ED points.

[Rhapsody Rain]

It is good to see that Chinese Medicine is out there to heal and to cure.
One question I have is: does shen have the same translation as sheng? :)

[vikinggoddess]

Chinese is a tonal language so 'shen' in this case I think is 2nd tone rising shen[/] meaning spirit. 'shen[/] is pin yin romanization. I am not so familiar if 'sheng' may be the old wade giles romanization of this word shen, but if it is pin-yin word then for sure shen and sheng are different. Do you know the tone for 'sheng'?

[Rhapsody Rain]

No, I do not know the tone for the word sheng.

[Rhapsody Rain]

Two of my relatives were cured of asthma with Chinese medicine! :)

[vikinggoddess]

would you believe that gecko is a chinese 'herb' commonly used to treat asthma. yikes!

[herb ox]

I remember a strange gathering of the martial bredren and sistren one night... we had shots of gecko wine. It was basically just flattened geckoes stacked in a pickle jar and filled with rice wine. The thought of it was worse than the taste, though. And the effects were noticable. :D Did some of my best push hands that night....

hmmm... maybe its time to start my own batch. I've always been fond of the 'spirits' in chinese medicne :eek:
ox

[GeneChing]

Not really kung fu. At least they don't have birds falling out of the sky by the thousands....

Mon, Jan 10, 2011
The Daily Chilli
'Kung fu' spritualist in exorcism bid (http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Malaysia/Story/A1Story20110110-257341.html)

http://news.asiaone.com/a1media/news/01Jan11/others/20110110.122745_exorcist_1.jpg
Widow Zainab Sulaiman, whose house in Kampung Penambang Bunga Emas, near Kota Baru, Kelantan has been plagued by hundreds of small fires which seemed to ignite out of the blue, is getting help from paranormal experts from as far away as Penang.

The latest "exorcist" is spiritualist Ong Q Leng, who came to the aid of the 73-year-old on Saturday to chase away "evil djinns" and "lock" the house to prevent it from coming back and causing trouble again.

Ong, 36, also known as Master Ong in Penang, said the house was infested with spirits sent by someone with ill-intentions.

She performed several 'kung fu' motions to get rid of them,

"I could sense an evil presence the moment I stepped into the house. There are little djinns under the house while the big ones are outside the house.

"I was able to chase away the small djinns but there is a 50-50 chance that they will return to cause mischief again."

"I have also provided 'shields' for Zainab and her family members, and advised her not to allow visitors as they could be possessed by the djinns," she said.

The mysterious fires have destroyed more than 250 pieces of clothing as well as prayer mats and two mattresses over the past two weeks.

Last Wednesday, a local group of Muslim ghostbusters called Darus Shifaq had conducted prayers and chanted Quranic verses, including cleansing with blessed water her ancient collection of keris, swords, and brassware believed to be possessed by the djinn.

However, a day later, Zainab said at least 46 pieces of her clothing were destroyed after the fire started mysteriously, adding that she believed that the djinns might be angry with the presence of paranormal experts in her house.

"However, I would still like to thank those who have helped me."

"I sincerely hope that this spirits would leave me alone because I have been having sleepless nights for the past fortnight, worrying that this house would catch fire while we are sleeping," said Zainab.

The widow lives in the wooden house with her daughter-in-law and two grandchildren.

[David Jamieson]

Make simple your mind and your fears will rise.
Dull your senses and you will have them tricked.

ghosts, ha! There is no such thing.
This world is for us, the living.
If it was for ghosts, it would be overrun with them.

These constructs are complete fantasy and made up.
Good for a laugh though.
:p

[Niersun]

Make simple your mind and your fears will rise.
Dull your senses and you will have them tricked.

ghosts, ha! There is no such thing.
This world is for us, the living.
If it was for ghosts, it would be overrun with them.

These constructs are complete fantasy and made up.
Good for a laugh though.
:p

Hope your not Christian. Ever heard of the holy ghost.

Spririts in medicine. What a bunch of nonsense.

[David Jamieson]

Hope your not Christian. Ever heard of the holy ghost.

Spririts in medicine. What a bunch of nonsense.

holy ghost is a catholic construct.
Jesus said exactly nothing about trinity or any of that.
It's a dogmatic construct that has SFA to do with Christianity and everything to do with retaining the power of intercession.

As you may note, I am not a churchy. :)
But Christianity? I'm down with it.

[Niersun]

holy ghost is a catholic construct.
Jesus said exactly nothing about trinity or any of that.
It's a dogmatic construct that has SFA to do with Christianity and everything to do with retaining the power of intercession.

As you may note, I am not a churchy. :)
But Christianity? I'm down with it.

I suggest you read your new testament again. If you have any problems with reference to the holy ghost, let me know.

[GeneChing]

Chinese “exorcist” convinces client to have sex with him to remove evil spirit residing in her vagina (http://en.rocketnews24.com/2013/08/19/chinese-exorcist-convinces-client-to-have-sex-with-him-to-remove-evil-spirit-residing-in-her-vagina/)
Philip Kendall 5 days ago

Now there’s a title I never thought I’d write.

It sounds like something you’d only ever find in movie script penned by a misguided teen with an occult fetish, but a man in Guangdong, China was arrested earlier this month after convincing a woman that the reason her love life was on the rocks was due to the evil spirit inhabiting her fouff.

And would you believe she actually fell for it?

The tragically gullible woman from the Guangzhou City is believed to have approached purported exorcist and counsellor Huang Jian Jun seeking relationship advice after falling for a co-worker but struggling to catch his eye.

At some point last month, Huang escorted the woman to a hotel where he instructed her to remove all of her clothes and lie on the bed. He then apparently told her:

“The evil spirit residing within your vagina is hindering your love life. There is no other option but for me to drive the spirit away with my *****. I have never had sex before, but for the sake of performing this exorcism, I offer up my virginity.”

Quite how he kept a straight face while uttering such cringe-worthy lines we have no idea, but the woman actually fell for the shamefully cheap tactics and had intercourse with him. It was only afterwards when Huang wrote out a bill for some 20,000 Yuan (US$3,200) that she smelled a rat and went to the authorities.

When police questioned Huang, he protested, maintaining: “Being a sufferer of diabetes, I have long since lost the ability to maintain an erection.”

No word yet as to whether the woman has managed to bag the man of her dreams now that the exorcism is complete. Though perhaps panty ghosts always hang around until after the bill has been settled?
You know, I can perform exorcisms too. I can dispel demons within you, if you only subscribe (http://www.martialartsmart.com/19341.html).

[Kellen Bassette]

“The evil spirit residing within your vagina is hindering your love life. There is no other option but for me to drive the spirit away with my *****. I have never had sex before, but for the sake of performing this exorcism, I offer up my virginity.”

Isn't that one of Lucas's pickup lines?