Distance Power

[Yamesk]

Hello, good people of Kung Fu Magazine Forums. You may call me Yamesk. I have been interested in the Martial Arts all my life. From childhood I grew up watching the famous Bruce Lee and his many action films and ever since I've been hooked.

It wasn't until just recently I started taking Shotokan Karate. Of course I realise Shotokan has its limits and I don't plan to just take this one particular style. Recently, I've been reading up on Tai Chi meditation and came across a particularly interesting power you can develope called "Ling Kong Jing."

I encountered this first online and was very skeptical. But after picking up "Tai Chi Classics by Waysun Liao," I read a description of different types of powers that are used and achieved in Tai Chi.

The description reads that Ling Kong Jing means "Distance Power." Literally, you can transfer power and defend yourself against your opponent without even coming into contact with them.

I recently also have seen video clips of various feats Yogis have performed such as pyrokinesis (like catching paper on fire with pure Ki energy alone.)

I am extremely interested in this subject now as even scientists have acknowledged these things have been performed and I would appreciate any or all informations you can provide. Thank you very much and may your training benefit you.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

The concept of "distance power" intrigues me.. but, in over 30 years in MA i have yet to experience it.. i have seen demonstrations between teacher/student but when i ask the teacher to "show me" they refused because it was "too dangerous"... i am willing to accept the risk to have the direct experience.. Now, i have experienced quite profound energies through direct contact, healings, FaJing, and straightforward power from almost negligible contact, but contact none-the-less.. As a amateur student of physics i concede that there are no restrictions from the quantum field theory that would prohibit "distance power", simply no tangible evidence in my own experience.. I think we have evolved enough to grasp the notion conceptually, but not enough to manifest it at any usable level.. if it were evolved to that level we would see "distance contact" matches rather than full-contact matches.. if there were people so well trained and disciplined, human nature would have revealed them by now.. not just anecdotes, but someone would step up and "prove" it.. I continue to train in what has been shown to me to be effective and attainable.. still, though, i keep an interested eye on the possibility that someone will step up and raise the bar.. i do not dismiss the possibility and occasionally i seek out claimants to see if they "have it".. i follow certain QiGong disciplines because i can experience noticable benefits, not always the claimed benefits, though..

Anyway, just some thoughts.. Be well..

Be well..

[bamboo_ leaf]

(if there were people so well trained and disciplined, human nature would have revealed them by now.. not just anecdotes, but someone would step up and "prove" it.)

the point for some of the people that can do this is that they are tiered of proving it, the first person they must prove it to is themselves. Do you or any one else feel that what they do is fooling themselves because you have not felt or experienced it?

Weather one is touched or not the way and manor in which it works is the same, this seems to be missed by many. As for testing on others not the students.

I know of no teacher that would test or show something that could potently injure a person just to prove a point they have already established for themselves..

It is interesting to note that all the demos of people who have this skill tend to look the same. I can relate to them because I have felt this first hand. What I often find confusing is how people can believe, experience and practice some things such as qi gong or TCM and then dismiss the deeper aspects or implications of it.

[bamboo_ leaf]

(if it were evolved to that level we would see "distance contact" matches rather than full-contact matches)

really? So the level of anything is determined by how much exposer it gets. There are accounts by people who have come in contact with it but but remain silent because of the profound differences relitive to the experience of others, it becomes an issue of prove it instead of one of open inquiry.

Yamesk,

If you are truly interested may I suggest that you seek out some TCM or body work people who work with energy type of modalities, and see what you feel.

[Yamesk]

I do thank you for the information. However, I'd like to show this video clip of a man named "John Chang." Those without cable it may take some time to load. If nobody here has heard of, or achieved Distance Power, then what about the power displayed in this video?

http://j.b5z.net/i/u/2098198/f/JOHN_CHANG.mov

Any thoughts? Maybe he is merely extraordinarily talented.

[bamboo_ leaf]

Common reactions.

Seek some one into energy work or into TCM you may experience the same things.
Why or what is it that your looking for and expect?

[Yamesk]

I have been wanting to learn Tai Chi Chuan (the combat art, not that health and fitness crap) because after hearing about chi and experiencing it a bit myself after doing a few basic Tai Chi forms I saw on a video, I've been eager to learn how to apply Jing in a life-threatening situation.

As for the pyrokinesis and any Distance Powers, I'd wish to achieve these not for combat purpose actually. I'd see no need to actually use Distance Power when you can use the thousands of physical techniques. In fact I'd probably not use it at all, I just would think it would be a nice goal to work for to keep my interest in training.

And yes, I'll seek out an instructor. I realise that with anything like this it would take a highly experienced Sifu/Sensei to teach you how.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Yamesk: Have you ever watched "Star Wars".. cool stuff there, too..

All i'm saying is that i have humbly asked, even begged, to see this type of experience in person from those making similar claims with similar "footage", they simply can't seem to offer any direct experience, to me at least.. My requests are sincere and without challenge, i really want to have this level of experience.. i have personally trained diligently in various QiGong sets for more than 10 years.. i have great respect for the internal power cultivated and refined by such work.. but, i still lack the direct experience of "distance power".. i do note that contact is used in the demonstration.. and i have had similar exchanges of energy through contact, but.. i eagerly await the evidence of "distance power"..

Be well..

[Yamesk]

If legitimate masters claim that they can do this, and it really CAN be done, then I suppose I can see why they would not wish to display such a power. Think about it; if it was proven, not only would people learn and train it, they would abuse it. Even though by claims I've heard it takes a long time to develope, some people are evil enough to go as far as going through all the disciplines just so they can achieve something for a twisted purpose.

By the way while I'm throwing links around here, I have two final links to show you all. One's a skeptical outlook on Ling Kong Jing, and the other is an actual article explaining how to achieve it.

I'd like to hear more of what you all have to say about this. I'm certain there must be someone out there that's achieved this.

Training Article:
http://www.universal-tao.com/article/empty.html#top

Skeptic Article:
http://www.uechi-ryu.com/oldsite/an_empty_force.htm

[BeiTangLang]

If legitimate masters claim that they can do this, and it really CAN be done, then I suppose I can see why they would not wish to display such a power. Think about it; if it was proven, not only would people learn and train it, they would abuse it. Even though by claims I've heard it takes a long time to develope, some people are evil enough to go as far as going through all the disciplines just so they can achieve something for a twisted purpose.

I'm sorry, but that is a cop-out speaking volumes of the untruth to the matter.
I can feel the energy, that can be taught. As for people using it for harm, I have to say the potential is there for anything (origami, chop-sticks, hot-wheels, etc., etc..)

Secrets are a way of maintaining false power over others. (Quite proffitable too from what I have observed).

It is one of my fondest wishs to see this done in person. I have felt the energy from others, but as TCB says, just cut the bs & show me. You don't have to teach it to me, I have no real use for such things....just show me its real!
I want to believe it!!

Thanks for bringing up the subject. Its is for sure an interesting topic of discusion.
Best wishes,
~BTL

[Christopher M]

Yes, it's real. I know the secret training method. Contact me for an address to send your cheques to.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I have witnessed several demonstrations that defied all my reasoning to conclude anything other than it was "distance energy work".. in the mid 1970's an acquaintance invited a select group of people to his home for "an event".. he sent several of out to buy plumber's candles (a box of 3 candles that burn for 2 hours each).. when we returned he had us open the boxes and mix up the candles.. another person chose a candle and set it on a brick in a pan of water and lit it.. Terry then went to the opposite corner of the room and began a very concentrated meditation (so much so that he sweated profusely).. in about 5-6 minutes the candle began to burn very brightly and within another 5-6 minutes had consumed itself completely.. Terry, exhausted, explained he only wanted us to see our potential.. i never saw Terry again, but that left a lasting impression.. like he intended, i have been seeking that potential..

I have seen a "Qi Test" where a small square piece of paper is folded corner to corner and balanced on sewing needle stuck in a base and covered by a glass.. people then took turns trying to move the piece of paper with "Qi".. my mentor watched with an amused smile as we gyrated around the glass and the paper remained motionless.. after some time he walked by, waved his hand near the glass, and the paper rocked noticably.. he chuckled as we stared in amazement, he said we tried too hard, "just do it"..

So, yeah, i know it's real.. i just need to "feel" the energy.. either my own skills or those of other better healers will fix me if i am injured, but.. i am willing to take the risk if someone will "show me".. i seldom cast doubts on footage of someone else demonstrating "Qi", but the vast numbers of proven fakes leads me to trust only that which i can directly experience, or that which has withstood hard scrutiny by reputable observers..

I have no intention of acquiring "power" over others through the use of Qi or "distance power".. it is simply another tool one uses, appropriately, to enhance their experience in this existence.. to consider that knowledge as a means to profit would likely be so contrary to the knowledge itself that it would elude those with such intentions.. it seems that the "knowledge" is dependent on the intentions of the aspirant.. the "just do it" remark could have well ment "loose the desperate grasping", clear the mind's intellectualizing, and let nature do what it naturally does.. i think it is a gift reserved for the worthy, i must simply continue my refinement toward worthiness..

Be well..

[cam]

Distance power?
I remember watching a documentary about James Randi, aka "The Amazing Randi", if you do not know who he is I recommend a Google search, an interesting fellow!
Now back in the 70's-early 80's (?) he exposed a "martial arts master" as a complete fraud, this "master" had a similar trick as to what Taichi Bob described. He would place a piece of paper on a pin, cover it with a fish-bowl, wave his arms about and lo and behold the paper would move!!!
Turned out that the fish bowl made an incomplete seal, as this "master" waved his arms about he would quietly blow towards the table, the moving air would flow under the bowl and presto, the paper would move!
Does this power exist.... Maybe, but probably not!

[Buddy]

Yammy,
You may call me Buddy...because that's my name. Sheesh. But all these parlor tricks are only that. LKJ and pyrokenisis? C'mon...
Buddy

[Ray Pina]

I have seen plenty of things in the martial arts that were amazing to me at one time .... I became a student and learned the material and can reproduce the same results against a resisting opponant.

When it comes to no touch knock outs, I have read a lot about it and have seen video and I would love to learn such a thing but never met someone in person who has claimed to have the skill.

I am also somewhat skeptical of this because it's producing a supposed reaction on a distant object without putting any force on it with an action.

I'm not saying it can't be done. And if someone could do it I'd certainly bow to them to learn it.

However, I have met people who have claimed far less, and when aproached to demonstrate it they not only refuse, but turn out to be cowardly men with little to no skill.

I can strike someone. If they deman proof that my hand can touch their body I don't need to strike their throat, the torso will do.

How come none of these guys can invisible touch you in a non-lethal way?

As far as chi I do not believe in it, I know it exists. I feel it now in my day to day life. I cultivate it in my practice and feel it. Better yet, I'm learning to direct it somewhat.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


But all these parlor tricks are only that. LKJ and pyrokenisis? C'mon... There is nothing in Physics that prevents using energy in such a manner, in fact, there is much to suggest it is quite possible.. as the Heisenburg experiments suggest, the observer's beliefs influence the observation, that is, if you expect "parlor tricks" that is what you will get (or interpret) from your observation.. which is why i suggest a still mind, an open mind when presented with "direct evidence" so the "truth" of the experience has a better chance of being observed.. Still, as i have stated previously, i haven't experienced any direct "distance power".. but, i am well enough informed and open-minded enough to not dismiss the possibility.. what a pity it would be to miss the "real-deal" simply because one couldn't let themself believe it..

Be well..

[bamboo_ leaf]

(But all these parlor tricks are only that. LKJ and pyrokenisis? C'mon.)

but for others such as myself its very much a reality based on direct experience.

It always amazes me how people can be so closed minded and yet seek it out, some that I have met after having felt it from others that I know, know that they cant really mention it as they would not believed, they now sit on the other side of the fence but do not have the skill or knowledge to really explain it even if they wanted to hence much of the silences on the issue.

Its just to much trouble and ends up just being amusement for those that say they know better yet can not duplicate much of what is seen.

I will say this, the basic ideas are there and can be accessed by people who really follow the ideas of shen, yi qi. With out these fundamental concepts being a reality in ones practice it will never make much sense and be regarded as some would say as parlor tricks

[Yamesk]

Okay, for the skeptics, I'd like to ask how you could explain the video of John Chang. Obviously the film crew was not plotting this or staging it. Like I said though it's not dial-up friendly so I can understand if you can't/don't want to watch it.

I mean I know for fact I can't just go out on the streets and throw my hand like Luke Skywalker and make them fly back ten feet, it just ain't happenin'. (pardon my redneck accent, lol.) But seriously, I've seen some really weird stuff. Maybe there are certain people that are just extraordinarily talented.

[BeiTangLang]

Okay, for the skeptics, I'd like to ask how you could explain the video of John Chang. Obviously the film crew was not plotting this or staging it. Like I said though it's not dial-up friendly so I can understand if you can't/don't want to watch it.

I mean I know for fact I can't just go out on the streets and throw my hand like Luke Skywalker and make them fly back ten feet, it just ain't happenin'. (pardon my redneck accent, lol.) But seriously, I've seen some really weird stuff. Maybe there are certain people that are just extraordinarily talented.


k,..I'll bite.
Amonia & gasoline vapors. Notice how strangely he is handling the paper as he is wadding it (a cone shape) then puts the hans over the cone area (almost "smooshing" it) before it ignites?? Just a thought.

BTW,like I said, I'd love to believe this stuff with all my heart. Just show me & have a student that can replicate the feat.

[_William_]

BeiTangLang is right. It can be explained as a delayed chemical reaction. Is it possible to occur through paranormal means? Well, 'pyrokinesis' has never been demonstrated under controlled conditions. In the John Chang video absolutely no controls are in place to prevent fraud. I am not saying he is a fraud, but I would like to see this done under controlled conditions. Until then I will view this as well as Empty Force with suspicion.

However, I think its incorrect to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and to entirely dismiss all psi phenomena. There is indeed evidence supporting psi phenomena, such as research done at Stanford Research Institude, Princeton, and the work done by the Cognitive Sciences Laboratory. I feel too many people have an automatic knee-jerk reaction to automatically slate all psi research and all psychics as fraudulent, when it is a valid field of study in which real results have been demonstrated.

[Yamesk]

I, too, am angered by true frauds. But there's really nothing you can do about them, because they'll always be around.

I would fly out to Indo-China and see for myself. But, two reasons why I don't.

1) What if he IS a fake? I walk to his house knock on door, he lets me in, we discuss it and it's over, he admits it's all a lie. So waste of money right there.

2) Even if he is not a fake, it's kinda cruel to dangle food in front of a hungry animal. So don't get me wrong, while I do believe in this stuff I also try to think realistically.

But scientifically, if you could control your subconscious mind somehow, and complete control of your chi in your body, the pyrokinesis makes sense.

The electrical shocks he made are a lot more believable because I've experienced static shocks in Tai Chi before. That's nothing close to Pyrokinesis or to Ling Kung Jing of course but still neat.

Let's suppose somehow these electrical surges could be controlled and directed all in one spot (like the hand.) The person touches something and it catches on fire. The reason that the person's hand would not burn up I am guessing would be because of the theory about chi - Chi is not going to do anything you don't want it to do.

That's all in theory of course and I'm just a Shotokan Bum at the moment. Just think about it though. If this was possible then it'd be very useful. *imagines blasting someone's window and getting away with it* Oh, uhm, I won't abuse it I promise. *Crosses fingers* XD

Edit: By the way, if LKJ couldn't work, what if you could punch so fast you make the air move? This could be developed over and over similar to punching candle flames out. Then in time if under a controlled experiment, you could thrust your fist in a palm strike to force the air straightward.

That's just a crazy idea from me though.

[_William_]

Edit: By the way, if LKJ couldn't work, what if you could punch so fast you make the air move? This could be developed over and over similar to punching candle flames out. Then in time if under a controlled experiment, you could thrust your fist in a palm strike to force the air straightward.

That's just a crazy idea from me though.

I'm not 100% sure what you are saying here, but if I'm reading it right, doing fast palm strikes proves your ability to... do fast palm strikes? Nothing paranormal going on here! If you're talking about punching so fast that the air from your fist pushes someone away to you, this too is probably impossible, given the small surface area of the hand and the fact that are there very real limits to the velocity of your fist. Nice idea though ;)



Let's suppose somehow these electrical surges could be controlled and directed all in one spot (like the hand.) The person touches something and it catches on fire. The reason that the person's hand would not burn up I am guessing would be because of the theory about chi - Chi is not going to do anything you don't want it to do.

I'm not sure if chi is in fact electrical in nature... In fact I don't think theres been much study quantifying what its properties are, or if it even exists, for that matter.

Not saying it necessarily does not exist, just wanted to point this out.

[fiercest tiger]

Wow, that was a great clip! Dunno if it was tempered with but ive seen daoist preist do this in hongkong too.

regards
Garry

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

the distance power described that results from some tai chi practices is usually dependant upon that teacher's degree of faith in thier own esoterica.

there are all kinds of bad things in the world. some are physical and observable. others are not so physical and not as observable by everyone.

there are several faith systems which believe in the possibility of 'distance power' as it can relate to communication. Taoism; esoteric Judaism and it's cultic derivatives; the church of scientology and it's cultic derivatives, including the new age movement; western esoteric philosophy and faith/ pagan/ wicca/ magic rituals/ golden dawn. just to name the major groupings.

monotheism represents distance power throught the manifestation of the almighty in defense of the chosen people (all monotheisms have a good people and outsiders) to the destruction of the outsider population. such acts are dependant upon righteous people's faith in thier god's relationship to him or her.

shamanistic systems such as taoism, native american spirituality, some aspects of Catholicism, filial reciprocity, and certain sects within scientology's umbrella reflect a belief in the ability to communicate to the deceased or even to beings having not been born as humans. some even commune with nature as a being itself or with individual beings within nature.

only in scientology, sorcery, and shamanistic systems do you see an aspect where an individual can utilize the powers of the universe at a distance beyond thier own body. often only with the asistance of some kind of helper being who is not a god. sometimes there is a kind of economic transaction to accomplish the deed.

typically people who believe in these systems of 'reality' are either in need of chemicals to keep from hearing voices or are suffering from a diet deficient in proper nutrition due to vegetarianism or adkins. try consuming a quarter cup of blended wildflower pollen daily for six months. additionally, DHEA is a hormone that works with other thyroid imbalances to help eliminate thyroid induced psychosis in long term diabetics or women who reached menopause at an early age. if your desire to reach towards an ending or an ended life by communicating to the real through the unreal has not ceased after six months on the pollen then you probably need to consult a physician for a prescription.

be well.

[Buddy]

The problem with LKJ is that it is useless as a martial training. I've had it tried on me and it's always that my qi isn't strong enough or to try the real stuff would be dangerous to me. Hogwash. I am not discounting the possibilty of such "powers". but so far they don't hold up to public scutiny. The newspaper trick, as was mentioned, has been done before. Parlor tricks.

[Yamesk]

Even if it has no Martial Application, I'd still like to learn it to say I achieved it. Obviously it can be used for SOMETHING, if it exists. It seems I read a previous post in this thread asking for private message on teaching, so I will consult this individual I suppose.

Does anybody else wish to share thoughts on this? I'd be interested to hear as obviously many Martial Artists here have a lot more experience than I do.

[shaolintim]

Ling Kong Jing dose not work for one simple reason. Chi energy, as we know it is not solid. As conventional wisdom would have it, the empty force would simply pass through a weaker enrgy force or bounce off a stronger enrgy force. So the question arises, How do you make your chi solid? This is just speculation on my part. Drawing on my knowlege of physics, which is basic at best, I would have to say it would be one of "condensation". Using the analogy of a flashlight, shinning a flashlight on some one would do no damage whatsoever. However, when you take the same beam of light and condense it thousands and thousands of times you get a laser beam capable of cutting through solid steel. So if I were one trying to develop Empty force power. I think I would spend a lot of time practicing Chi condensing exercises. Again this is total speculation on my part.

Tim

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

one way to test your theory of being able to project chi in a soft non-kinetic manner would be practice your qi harnessing and internal gong to the point where a red ball appears on your skin the size of a silver dollar. be able to move this ball around your chest and into your arms to your palms. since that is supposedly the center of chi power as focused in all the manuals if you can make it move out of your body without killing yourself and still maintaining control over this 'chi ball' then you have achieved what you are describing concerning projecting your chi outside your body.

another exercise might be to try the same gongs but without pushing it beyond your physical limits. take your practice into a swimming pool and try to affect the thermodynamics of the pool or just the ambient waves of the pool without moving.

[_William_]

one way to test your theory of being able to project chi in a soft non-kinetic manner would be practice your qi harnessing and internal gong to the point where a red ball appears on your skin the size of a silver dollar. be able to move this ball around your chest and into your arms to your palms. since that is supposedly the center of chi power as focused in all the manuals if you can make it move out of your body without killing yourself and still maintaining control over this 'chi ball' then you have achieved what you are describing concerning projecting your chi outside your body.

Errr...

What "manuals" are you speaking of? This stuff sounds like it came straight out of a chinese martial fantasy novel.

Names please.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Errr...

What "manuals" are you speaking of? This stuff sounds like it came straight out of a chinese martial fantasy novel.

Names please.

manuals kept by the government of china captured durring the cultural revolution. you won't be able to access them. i only knew of thier existance as a rumor. The government of china made several overtures to me in 1995 for a number of reasons. 8 hours with these texts were part of that overture. as were some of the recipies of Mao's soup chef.

that said the manuals i am describing are taoist medical and advanced external qigong practice textbooks. the same tradition of texts from which the toxic elixers were derived.

and yeah, to a traditional american it would sound like nonsense, hokipoki and rubbish. but i'm not interested in your opinion, edjucated or not. i don't think you've ever read a chinese martial arts fantasy novel. rather you have quoted someone who was harassing Zhong Gau for a similar albeit erronious reason. we are talking about ontology here. i don't have time to explain it to you, junior. so go find yourself a sucker and spend some time doing some cursory reseach before you butt in next time, will you?

[Yamesk]

Woah man, that was complete and total 0wnag3. Sorry to the person getting 0wn3d, but I can't deny 0wnag3 when I see it!

Anyway if any of you wish to share these in depth with me personally I am deeply interested in what anyone wishes to say, so please Private Message me should you be interested in talking. I'd love to learn this if anybody claims to have leads on how to do this.

[shaolintim]

Here's a different perspective on the subject of empty force.

http://www.whitewillowtaichi.com/cpage.cfm?cpid=76

[_William_]

Woah man, that was complete and total 0wnag3. Sorry to the person getting 0wn3d, but I can't deny 0wnag3 when I see it!

Woah man, you show complete and total lack of critical thinking.



manuals kept by the government of china captured durring the cultural revolution. you won't be able to access them. i only knew of thier existance as a rumor. The government of china made several overtures to me in 1995 for a number of reasons. 8 hours with these texts were part of that overture. as were some of the recipies of Mao's soup che
f.

:rolleyes:

Unless they are public record and other people have verified it then your word is no good. Sorry pal. This is a simple lack of intellectual honesty. ANYBODY can make allusions to "secret manuals". For all I know they don't even exist.

Doesn't your signature say "if you something is 'closed door' ask your sifu before you let it loose to the forum"? I see an inconsistency here.

Psssssst...I read a manual in Afghanistan about whirling dervishes that destroy mountains with chi, but it was shortly before the Taliban ransacked the museums so their destroyed, with no trace of them remaining...

See, I can talk about "secrets" your not privy to as well! :rolleyes:


and yeah, to a traditional american it would sound like nonsense, hokipoki and rubbish. but i'm not interested in your opinion, edjucated or not. i don't think you've ever read a chinese martial arts fantasy novel. rather you have quoted someone who was harassing Zhong Gau for a similar albeit erronious reason. we are talking about ontology here.

Nice attempt to steer the conversation towards me. The onus is on you, to raise evidence do back up your wild claims. Not for me to defend my ethnicity or background, or whether I've read a martial fiction before.

By the way, I've got no idea who Zhong Gau is??


but i'm not interested in your opinion, edjucated or not

Good, good. If you are on a public forum be prepared to defend your claims with EVIDENCE. Hinting at secret texts that may or may not exist, doesn't count pal.


so go find yourself a sucker and spend some time doing some cursory reseach before you butt in next time, will you?

Oh, the irony!

[imperialtaichi]

When I was studying acupuncture at the Australian Medical Acupuncture College (AMAC), the lecture was explaining how to locate an ear point by checking the pulse; so I was the subject, middle of a room at the Royal North Shore Hospital, monitored by half a dozen medical doctors checking my pulse, heart-beat etc. When the lecturer moved her needle over the specific point WITHOUT touching my ear or any other part of my body, all the doctors registered a heart-beat skip.... This phenomenon is fully repeatable and reproducable. I was not cooporating in anyway.

Although the effect is small, and the distance is close, it does demonstrate that the body can be affected through distant manipulation, easily. To what degree, I don't know.

Cheers,
John

[Yamesk]

_William_ , apologies. I didn't mean to offend you with the "l33t talk," I thought it'd make you laugh actually.

Anyway I respect both skeptical opinions and believer's opinions alike. I want to hear all sides of the story. Because if I were to train and it all be a lie the training is for naught. (Believer's downfall) and if I were to dismiss it completely, I would never get the chance to achieve it (Skeptic's downfall.)

As you can see this is why I wish to hear both sides of the story. This is the only way once can see who is truely correct. And we may never know until technology advances enough to prove or disprove it.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Woah man, that was complete and total 0wnag3. Sorry to the person getting 0wn3d, but I can't deny 0wnag3 when I see it!

Anyway if any of you wish to share these in depth with me personally I am deeply interested in what anyone wishes to say, so please Private Message me should you be interested in talking. I'd love to learn this if anybody claims to have leads on how to do this.

this really requires the experiences of several teachers. no one teacher can get you correct in this kind of art. do not try this on your own. the way the qi columnates in your da tien can have critical affects on you and even kill you if done improperly. people without a good foundation in qi qong often bleed to death trying this principle of power. people with a history of vascular disease or other cardio vascular problems should never try this gong. diabetics also.

[Willow Palm]

I'm just going to butt in real quick and say,

"That video clip was cool!"

I don't care if it was real or not, it was impressive and the people who were there certainly seemed impressed, too. Thanks for sharing.

As for the "distance" stuff, I have no personal experience with. Of course I've heard many stories sharing similarities but I haven't seen such a thing, yet. I agree with others mostly here in saying:

I think anything is possible if you are intent and focused.

Why of course there are imposters/frauds out there. Those type of people are in all walks of life. One interesting thought, to me anyway, is that if someone had "honed" themselves to a degree like that, why would they ever feel the need to prove it? Surely this would the product of years of spiritual development with countless hours of diligent work involved. So why would they exploit/reveal something that is so personal, all in the sake of proving that discipline and dedication to something has rewards?

LOL. Then again it is very late, and maybe I'm rambling.

All Apologies if I Offended Anyone,
Warren

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


One interesting thought, to me anyway, is that if someone had "honed" themselves to a degree like that, why would they ever feel the need to prove it? I suppose that is a matter of perspective.. where one sees it as "proof", another may present it as guidance.. a demonstration of human potential. With all the speculation, both pro and con, it would be admirable if someone could step up to the plate and settle the disputes. There's no need to expose "secret training methods", just provide undeniable evidence that stands up to real scientific scrutiny.. Then, we could adjust our goals accordingly, rather than train in a vacuum of evidence with the hope that it is authentic.. We would be faced with finding those secretive "masters" that "have it", then convincing them we are worthy of having it, too..

I could add much in personal anecdotal accounts, but that isn't an undeniable demonstration.. my personal experience is sufficient for my own understanding of the usefulness of this path, yet.. i am also humbled at the training and discipline needed to achieve such lofty goals..

Some would suggest that "faith" is necessary to follow this path, that we need to believe the stories and ignore the frauds and lack of concrete evidence.. that sounds very much like religion and we know what maddness that inspires.. So, i deal with the science (physics) and the personal evidence i have experienced, which leads me to pursue some level of proficiency in use of energy as a tool for enhancing my MA and my life..

Be well..

[Dale Dugas]

this really requires the experiences of several teachers. no one teacher can get you correct in this kind of art. do not try this on your own. the way the qi columnates in your da tien can have critical affects on you and even kill you if done improperly. people without a good foundation in qi qong often bleed to death trying this principle of power. people with a history of vascular disease or other cardio vascular problems should never try this gong. diabetics also.


Yuan,

Where are you citing these references from? What books or journals?

Just stating that people bleed when they improperly perform a certain qi gong is rather a silly thing to say without such notation.

Your reference to the dan tian and the way qi columnates doesnt make any sense. Again where did you see this referred?

Dale

P.S. I PMed you. Im waiting for a response. Thanks.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Unless they are public record and other people have verified it then your word is no good. Sorry pal. This is a simple lack of intellectual honesty. ANYBODY can make allusions to "secret manuals". For all I know they don't even exist.


they are a matter of public record. if you know thier title's you can request copies from the chinese consulate in washington d.c. for a short term loan. be prepared to have a houseguest or two while you examine the text. as far as you are concernerned they don't exist. there are several copies of these manuals in d.c. china town but they are not available to americans. perhaps if your sifu was chinese or viet...

the nature of the manuals is not that they are "secret manuals" everybody in the towns where they existed knew of thier existance. it's only the american martial art marketing that has you convinced anything of this nature should be considered secret. they are as the aquired learning of a region of china before the qing dynasty. the state of china considers them like encylopedias or medical manuals or folk traditions.

so before you run off blasting someone for your ignorance try doing a little research beyond a simple web search. nothing i talk about here is "Closed Door". most of it is, however, not a part of mainstream martial arts media knowledge as i am a bit more edjucated in chinese culture, political and religious history than most martial artists. gene and a few others here i'll defer to often.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

As you can see this is why I wish to hear both sides of the story. This is the only way once can see who is truely correct. And we may never know until technology advances enough to prove or disprove it.

try not to get caught up in william's noise. the fundamental reality which trolls like william espouse is that "chi cannot be real because it does not follow the rules of physics." this is erronius because they themselves do not know or understand the rules of physics.

everyhting about you can be described as a wave under the wave mechanical paradigm. everything about you that has a rhythum can be described mathematically under this set of rules. even your nervous system follows the wave mechanical principle. as your body is merely a wave mechanical conduit why can't you project energy from your body? the very concept is hogwash according to people like william. under thier kind of understanding radio and tv could not function. they are signals carried by waves transmitted from physical hardware to physical hardware both designed to transmit and recieve the signals. yet they function on the kind of physics they don't understand and hence cannot recognise elsewhere in nature.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Good, good. If you are on a public forum be prepared to defend your claims with EVIDENCE. Hinting at secret texts that may or may not exist, doesn't count pal.
Oh, the irony!

you will need a text book in basic physics, calculus, differential equations, heat transfer/thermodynamics and electromagnetics. i don't think GeneChing want's me to tie up his server with all this when you can go get it from the average public library in the United States, Canada, Australia, or Europe.

OH, the irony!

[_William_]

they are a matter of public record. if you know thier title's you can request copies from the chinese consulate in washington d.c. for a short term loan. be prepared to have a houseguest or two while you examine the text. as far as you are concernerned they don't exist. there are several copies of these manuals in d.c. china town but they are not available to americans. perhaps if your sifu was chinese or viet...

If you would post the titles, this would be appreciated.


try not to get caught up in william's noise. the fundamental reality which trolls like william espouse is that "chi cannot be real because it does not follow the rules of physics." this is erronius because they themselves do not know or understand the rules of physics.


why can't you project energy from your body? the very concept is hogwash according to people like william.

Good God.

You know that this is the basis of a straw man argument?

Don't you even try to put words in my mouth. Readers can go back to my previous posts to see that I said nothing of the above.

I will post more later.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

william: welcome to my ignore list.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

You know that this is the basis of a straw man argument?
I will post more later.

i will not give you the titles. you have not shown enough understanding of culturally relavant ettiquite.

do not post more until you have a minor in physics and have taken somekind of bio-electronics hardware class for nurses. or read one of thier manuals in medical tech. you are projecting energy every moment of every day. you even project it without your active control. it can be monitored. get over your ignorance. i will not help you further.

you would probably get further if you asked questions in a considerate manner rather than tell edjucated people they don't know what they're talking about.

regaurding your comment about my assumption: why else would you be trolling here?

now, you're on my ignmore list.

[Buddy]

Yuen,
Get ready to press the ignore switch, Mary, because you are full of what comes out of a dog's butt. In fact, Eggo, is that you, you tool. You should really be posting on fighting arts forum under the chi balls/ Yu gi oh bushwa.
God, to think Bob and I are on the same side. Bob is at least sentient. You, son, should talk to Tom Cruise. Or post your addres that someone might teat your "skill".

[Dale Dugas]

Been trying Buddy.

This tool thought I was someone from Southie and then started to slander me saying that I was coming out of a bad divorce and needed a punching bag when I was abusing Vasquez the ultimate troll(who by the way was banned the other day). Funny, Buddy that I'm not married. Another misinformed butt monkey.

Yuan said he would come to Boston and make me his b i t c h, claiming all matter of styles on his public profile. He claimed to have family here and that he would cross hands with me the next time he was in town. He has my phone number as I PMed him.

Then all of a sudden he went silent after V got banned and has been hiding like the girl that he is. You cannot email him as he hides that from people. I have PMed him many times but I think he is not reading or is shaking in his boots at causing such a stir with me and mine.

He obviously reads way too many books that are heavy on theory and little on practical application.

He is a pseudo intellectual as is shown by the content of his posts.

I think most of us would like to see an email addy so we can contact him to see all these secret skills that would kill us normal people, though he did mention in another post that contacting people on forums without the proper filters(i.e. being able to slander them anonymously, and not be able to be held accountable) is not his style.

We should rename him the Supreme Pubah of Little Bunny Fu.

What do you think, Buddy?

Tag you it Yuan.

Still waiting for a response for all the mud you slung at me, son.

Dale Dugas

[Ou Ji]

TaiChiBob
"I have seen a "Qi Test" where a small square piece of paper is folded corner to corner and balanced on sewing needle stuck in a base and covered by a glass.."

I'm not yet sure that can't be explained by known physics but I'd really like to know because I can do it and it's NOT a trick. I showed 2 friends once when we were bored sitting in a hotel lobby where we were staying for a tournament. One was able to duplicate what I did with the limited instruction I was able to give. The other could not.

I have noticed that movement occurs best when the tension in my hands is released and the hands relax.

Another thing, wasn't there a TC Master in China that after a seminar in Shanghai demonstrated on a few participants?

Also, you might want to consider that YuanZhideDiZhen claims to be able to put his hand in boiling oil and other fantasies. I don't take anything he says seriously.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

TaiChiBob
Also, you might want to consider that YuanZhideDiZhen claims to be able to put his hand in boiling oil and other fantasies. I don't take anything he says seriously.

the problem is that you took it seriously. as was stated by taichi bob and others it gets bad when the trolls are trolled. like most things that i say that become hot topics here: youguys don't know enough to know when to shut up. so i just keep the crapola rolling until you belch. some few in here are well edjucated. others are ****ed off that i respect traditional values. still others want what took me years to learn in a free statement. as far as i'm concerned nobody who asks for such titles or approaches in a disrespectful manner to the tradition to which they approach will ever get the knowledge i have that they are asking about. many of you are scientologists. the church you espouse membership to is terribly disgruntled by people whom distain the church's values for other nonscientological traditional value systems. Scientology was big in boston and still is so today.

According to your tradition: everything you need to know about already exists in someone in the church of scientology. someone there already knows and understands. you can get their knowledge through the church. if it does not exist in the church the person holding the knowledge does not have to divulge it or even inform the church where it can be had. more importantly, if it does not already exist in the church you don't need to know about it. so honor your own traditions: they are all you have. I am an anthropolgist. i have studied things in person which you have no access to in books.

if you're offended that i called you a looney, i feel better about you. perhaps all you needed was a prescription for some good quealudes.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

TaiChiBob
Also, you might want to consider that YuanZhideDiZhen claims to be able to put his hand in boiling oil and other fantasies. I don't take anything he says seriously.

hey what's so difficult with 340-degree oil? the coals that fire walkers dance on are upwards of five hundred. thousands of people have done that. so what's your beef? is it just that "Yuan said this" or are you really that ignorant about the things you flap about? i know, it's the fact that it was my hand and not my foot...or may be it was that it was in oil and not just on top of it...or may be.... :cool:

[Yamesk]

You guys! Please, stop flaming each other.

I'm not trying to be bossy, and since I'm new here, I know nobody is really going to listen to me until they get to know me, but please hear me out.

We are Martial Artists. At least, a majority of the people here are. For those that do not practice Martial Arts, we are supposed to set an example for them. If we go around flaming each other and name-calling, and arguing over chi, people are going to think Martial Arts is stupid or not going to teach them anything.

I'm begging you guys, please, take this skirmish outside the forums. I think everyone will agree with me when I say that Martial Artists are supposed to be better than this. My fellow Martial Artists, please - don't resort to things like flaming, especially on a public forum.

If we flame one another, especially in the midst of a public forum on the net where anyone on the world can see, I believe this will give our practices a bad name.

If you want, I can make a section on my own forum for us to take this debate to. You'd be allowed to flame each other and duke this out as much as you wish. But please, for the sake of this forum's good name, please don't flame on it - come on to my forums and I'll start a topic where we can finish this debate if it keeps going on, okay? :(

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

ABout 12 years ago i learned a very valuable lesson.. i challenged someone's fanciful claims.. an older, disciplined gentleman had the ability to step up on a standard 16 oz. styrofoam cup, bottom up, without crushing it.. this alone was a feat i have yet to see duplicated, and mind you, it was my coffee cup he used, no tricks.. when i asked him how he did it, he said , "i make myself light".. unbelievably, i ask him to come into the office and step on the scales and "show me".. he laughed so hard but with the compassion of someone dealing with a child, and said "you no understand".. "the cup is light, i just become the cup.. i can't crush myself".. These many years later, i am just beginning scratch the surface of the profound implications of that statement.. "i just become the cup"..

so, what's my point?

I no longer challenge people's claims.. particularly if i don't know them, the truth of those claims will be evident in the substance of the individual.. i look at the rest of their conversations, their level of respect for others, and the probability of the claims.. and i offer examples of supporting or contrary evidence, but i do not challenge the validity of their claims.. by sharing evidence, even anecdotal evidence, and watching the character of peoples responses, i develop a perspective of peoples' sincerity.. from that i develop my own perspective of their intentions.. are they seeking to improve their own perspectives or are they seeking to impose their perspectives on others.. an open mind or an intellectual bully.. challenges seldom result in improved perspectives, more often they end up alienating those involved.. no net gain.. i find it useful to keep sharing experiences, evaluate the shared experiences and adjust my perspectives accordingly.. without instigating or contributing to conflict, so much is lost in the rhetoric of conflict..

I don't know most of the people here, but.. until i meet you and see for myself, i keep my evaluations to myself.. "humble pie" is a healthy dish, but not very tasty.. if the "older, disciplined gentleman" could "become the cup" and not crush himself.. it may be possible for someone to become the boiling oil and not burn themselves.. aside from the unlikely probability, i still wish to see the evidence.. because there is where the truth will be revealed.. and, my interest is solely in the truth.. i have no interest in preserving my own perspectives if they are not valid.. i have no interest in impressing people by claiming superior skills or knowledge, in fact, if that were the case, i would be better served concealing it until it was appropriate to reveal.. i don't even know what "appropriate" is.. that, too, reveals itself "in the moment", not as a contrived condition..

If i assert that i have "secret" knowledge, i have already violated the secrecy and invited scrutiny.. the ego is a funny thing, it loves to feed itself with such things as "i have something you don't, and you can't have it".. Secrets imply that one must be judged worthy to gain access to the secret.. and, who is really worthy to be the judge?..

Be well..

[Dale Dugas]

Great post Bob,

Very well put.

Oil boy, owned.


LOL

Dale

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

My fellow Martial Artists, please - don't resort to things like flaming, especially on a public forum.

If we flame one another, especially in the midst of a public forum on the net where anyone on the world can see, I believe this will give our practices a bad name.

(

please read my signature. trolling and flaming is part of what goes on here. part of lasting here is knowing when to pitch your battles and when to keep quiet. part of your being here is to learn from other trolls how to pick a fight, how to enrage someone with words, then how to completely frustrate them with simple normal conversation. the less we can bring religion or faith and politics into it the better we will be. but religion and faith, and family lineage are the most powerful driving forces besides economics. sometimes the best way to get the truth out of someone is to flame them into provoking an emotional response. that way you know you're dealing with an empassioned martial artist and not some jack-off blogger.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

People will rationalize whatever behavior suits them.. if one's nature is conflict, then "flaming" will suit them and rationalization will satisfy their standards and values..
part of your being here is to learn from other trolls how to pick a fight, how to enrage someone with words, then how to completely frustrate them with simple normal conversation That perspective seem to fit some and not others.. generalizations are the companions of rationalizations, we convince ourselves that others think like we do (or that they should, anyway), so we can fit into our own contrived reality.. if i was interested in "how to pick a fight", i wouldn't need lessons from trolls.. truth usually does the trick..

Be well..

[_William_]

the problem is that you took it seriously. as was stated by taichi bob and others it gets bad when the trolls are trolled. like most things that i say that become hot topics here: youguys don't know enough to know when to shut up. so i just keep the crapola rolling until you belch

So half the stuff you post is bull**** and the other half is nonsense. Good to know.

Lets see here, you have ignored THREE, count 'em, THREE requests to post the names of these texts, which, as you stated are "public record", which would make it NO BIG DEAL to post.

And you have been attempting to leverage your chinese ethnicity against me as an excuse to:1) Bull**** all you like and claim insider knowledge of the chinese culture and now 2) To hide behind "traditional conduct".

Good lord. As a Chinese person myself, this really makes me LOL. I asked my grandfather, who lived through the Cultural Revolution and has practiced qigong most his life about this, and he told me I had been had. There, theres somebody who has "Knowledge about Chinese Culture, politics, and religious history"!

NOW you can stop masquerading and dancing around 'cultural tradition' as an excuse to spout off bull$1t at every turn.

Ya know, I REALLY thank you for saving me the trouble. I was going to shoot off emails to Michael Winn, the National Qigong Association, various TCM colleges, write letters to external qigong healers, all to verify the existence of these texts. And then I would have posted their replies, all on this thread.

You were taken by surprise that I actually requested evidence, weren't you? You didn't think anybody would call you out on your bull$h!t, did you? Now we have a public admittance from you, and I will quote here for the benefit of readers,


the problem is that you took it seriously. as was stated by taichi bob and others it gets bad when the trolls are trolled. like most things that i say that become hot topics here: youguys don't know enough to know when to shut up. so i just keep the crapola rolling until you belch.

So here we have it people! I don't think I gotta post the long list of BS claims he has made in the past as well.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Greetings..

i don't even know what "appropriate" is.. that, too, reveals itself "in the moment", not as a contrived condition..

If i assert that i have "secret" knowledge, i have already violated the secrecy and invited scrutiny.. the ego is a funny thing, it loves to feed itself with such things as "i have something you don't, and you can't have it".. Secrets imply that one must be judged worthy to gain access to the secret.. and, who is really worthy to be the judge?..

Be well..

generally i agree with most of your statement. however, imo, far more good is achieved by dropping items in plain view because it pulls back the curtain separating possible from impossible. it even allows far greater impact to be achieved than merely revealing that a certain trick is possible: it allows other unrelated possibilities to perculate through an individual and dramatically change the world i live in, or my children live in. many of the things you take for granted would never have happened if someeone had not shown me in quite the same way quite the same things.

in stillness, be well.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


imo, far more good is achieved by dropping items in plain view because it pulls back the curtain separating possible from impossible. it even allows far greater impact to be achieved than merely revealing that a certain trick is possible In many respects, i agree.. "secrets" are another of the ego's tricks for maintaining the illusion of superiority.. it has been my experience that those "unworthy" of the knowledge (if such a condition exists), either can't make it work or the knowledge effects a change for the better.. in either case, the "secret" is no less potent in public view.. the worst effect of secrets, is that so many "secrets" go to the grave with those hoarding the knowledge.. most systems with secrets are in decline.. less and less of the original material is handed down and more and more made-up stuff is replacing the void of authentic CMA..

Not to change the subject, but.. sort of on topic, a former CMA student, now training MMA, got into a scuffle last weekend and added evidence to my theory.. i.e.: he took the opponent to the ground and began to tie him up for the finish.. but, the opponent's buddies found the grounded former CMA student to be an easy target as he assumed the ground and pound position.. this has long been a concern of mine.. that while MMA and ground-fighting have their place (usually as a competition), the advantage in the street goes to the fighter able to maintain his standup position and control the situation.. i worry that too many people are training too much for ground-fighting, that they will find this being their first choice when it should be the last.. If the confrontation goes to the ground you need the training and i reccommend it, but.. that's the last place i want to be, many of CMA's lost secrets may have been useful in dealing with such situations.. if i end up on the ground, my first goal is to get back on my feet (unless the opponent presents a good opportunity to finish it quickly).. otherwise, i do wish to be as narrowly focused and with the reduced options for dealing with the opponent's crew that ground fighting seems to present.. if CMA is to flourish, "put it all out there", the knowledge and discipline was so well crafted as to not lend itself to unscrupulous characters, or to mitigate such unscrupulous character flaws.. anyway, i am still developing this thought process and just thought i would share..

Be well..

[Ou Ji]

Sorry YuanZhideDiZhen but most of us have waded through your BS that you consistantly refuse to backup with any kind of documentation. I have yet to find ANYONE that agrees with your statement that Ip Man, Bruce Lee's teacher, was a famous Choy Lay Fut Master.

Oh, and he had a big fight with Chan Pui and what was it, broke his leg or something? Then later changed it to where Chan Pui beat Ip Man. And that it's common knowledge in China.

I'm just trying to save you guys some ridiculous conversation with someone who has proven himself to be full of BS in other forums and threads.

Now, as far as the paper under glass experiment that I have shown to others and had one person able to do it on his first attempt. Let me just say that in my limited Taiji and Qigong training and practice I have yet to feel Qi flowing anywhere through my body or any of the things others claim to feel from Taiji practice. Not that I doubt them but if Qi was the source of the papers movement don't you think I would notice something happening in my own body?

Personally I believe, as I initially did when I first tried this when I was young before ever hearing about Qi, that it's related to static electricity. Polarization, positive and negative charges building up between the hand and the paper.

What I haven't tried yet is with a light substance that is not affected by the static. I doubt that magnetic forces are involved.

TCB
So what's AJ's explanation, Qi or spirit guides? ;)

[Buddy]

Yoon,
Look you are an azzclown and Dale hiked your dress up and twisted your panties. So far you've pussed your way out of a very bad spot with Dale. You must be a little toady specked tit. But your mom likes you.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Oh, and he had a big fight with Chan Pui and what was it, broke his leg or something? Then later changed it to where Chan Pui beat Ip Man. And that it's common knowledge in China.


no. that is not what i said. and it was not what others have said. so the fault is your own in misunderstanding the initial statement. since you and clf sean and others from karate forums and dragon's list can't seem to get the facts straight the first, second or third times i certainly will not address it a fourth time. the fact that you either refuse to aqknowledge what was typed or you are just too emotional for this issue and topic indicate to me that you have some kind of mental hang up or dislexia or some other unnatural skewing occuring in your chemistry. either that or you listen to closely to someone like sean stoneheart who has such an imbalance. others whom have reviewed that topic have found the screw up of names rather curious in every accuser who has come along: having been curious enough to check out the actual posts and found the opposite to be true. that the names were clearly posted and that Yip Man and Chan Pui were clearly stated as having been on the same side of the dispute.

actually the statement of yours which i quoted is a classic example of sean stoneheart, aka clf sean's classic misunderstanding and misquoting of the issue when he tries to turn up the heat on someone. last time it was over his misunderstanding of two styles he practiced yet could not describe in a way which made one seem different from the other, yet he could not understand or explain how they were different. "just that they are radically different". several people agreed with me. every couple of weeks sean finds some newbie to troll this through the page. seems like he's made a sucker of you. what are you, a student of his? where is his kwoon?

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Greetings..

People will rationalize whatever behavior suits them.. if one's nature is conflict, then "flaming" will suit them and rationalization will satisfy their standards and values.. That perspective seem to fit some and not others.. generalizations are the companions of rationalizations, we convince ourselves that others think like we do (or that they should, anyway), so we can fit into our own contrived reality.. if i was interested in "how to pick a fight", i wouldn't need lessons from trolls.. truth usually does the trick..

Be well..

it was merely something i learned here, in these forums. to most trolls truth doesn't matter. only what you can do to spark a flame. they are like the rabble whom complained about all the mistakes concerning hurricane Katrina but when the thread was started to see what they could contribute to fixing the problem not a constructive thing could be found to be said by any of them.

so i was merely advising the newbie to watch out for webfu. i am a prime example of why youcan't say anything different from anyone else's experiences. or rather from the experiences of the lowest common denominator in american martial arts. my experiance is different. i don't feel i have to back my claims with anything other than my word. imo, if you have to back it with "Proof" then you are trying to gain some status in a community that does not award status in that manner. rather, you are stooping to the level of the fool for the likes of those who are looking for a rowdy good time. part of being here is to survive here. be aware or be something or somewhere else. and don't take anything said here personally. most people's martial arts are basically the same in terms of what they're looking for: intensive cario-arobics with the advantage of learning how to kick someone's a55. I come here looking for helpful information and to give helpful information. if you don't accept it I'm not that worried about it. but if you deliberately switch things around and put words in my mouth to start a fight, or rather to prevent a capitulation from having to be honored, then i will make a certain statement like the one i just made. and at the end of the capitulation's ritual year of cleanliness i will persue other means to bring you (Ou JI) closure over this. perhaps when ouji get the facts of the statement straight he'll understand what a fool he's made of himself.

bob you are correct again. truth is the bane of the troll.

[Dale Dugas]

Yuan,

You are so full of poo your eyes are brown.

Like Buddy said.

Call me sometime son.

Would love to see this magic dragon.

You have nothing.

Prove it with action and not posts.

Coward.

Dale Dugas

[Ou Ji]

Some quotes from YuanZhideDiZhen:
"i taught six techniques to one of my 7 year old daughters and she crippled a kid several years older than herself."

"i split a man's sternum with a brush knee push."

"i stopped a master's attack in two manuevers."

TCB you'll like these about Chan Pui and Wah Lum:
"wah lum is the bread-n-butter school of cma without a doubt. many of the forms i perform they do also, they just don't do them the same way."

"I'm pretty sure wah lum is the style of his decendants. and i thought his entire ma experience was with Iyip: he was there for some fourty years....

Iyip's full recipe is not limited to this:
Mih Men/Mih Hua, Shaoi Jiao, and Fen Shen as the three primaries
Ji Yaw, Bor Yuan, Tzeuy, Tong Bei, Hong, drunken, and mantis as flavourings
with a heavy dose of wing chun and choy li fut.

out of which Chan utilized the mantis flavoured combined elements of the above styles with a healthy dose of wing chun."

And speaking more on Wah Lum:
"they have a handbook?
i was looking at a page in taiwan. the school is reputedly just one or two generations from Iyip's CLF from before the big fight."

Hmmm, looks to me like he deleted his posts about the big fight. Now he can say anything he wants.

Here's an interesting thread claims (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35895)

[Dale Dugas]

another full of crap mouth boxer.

Claims all types of things, and when you call him on it. He starts to cry out that we are picking on him.

Fahk him and his ignore list. He is a ass clown extraoridnaire.

Thanks Ou Ji for posting all those lovely Yuanisms.

Isnt he great?

Come out come out whereever you are Yuan.

Come visit Buddy and I in Boston sometime soon. We can see if you can dip your hand in boiling oil and survive it.

Firewalking is nothing big time as well. the shell of the coal is very thin, and the water in your body compensates for the heat as you walk down the coal bed. No big secret training involved at all.

Chem 101 text books have it listed as well.

Step up chump. Im waiting in Quincy.

Dale

[Ou Ji]

YuanZhideDiZhen
Why do you consistantly refuse to list any details to support your claim of this 'Big Fight'?

You mention it then tell me to go to these older masters and ask them for the details yet you don't name any places or dates and are not clear as to who fought who. You're a troll and we all know it.

We now return you to your regular topic of discussion. Thank you.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Well.. i trained directly with GM Chan Pui for 12 years.. 1990-2002.. i was fortunate to be included with the "inside students".. there was much discussion about many things and never once did i hear or hear of "Ip Man" or any such fight.. that doesn't mean it didn't happen, only that it never came up in any discussions i was privy to during my tenure at WL.. The handbook makes no mention of CLF or Ip Man.. Regardless of whatever controversy surrounds Chan Pui and the WL system, he is a remarkable martial artist that has developed a huge system of schools and sifus.. his students are consistent winners at tournaments (forms primarily).. i have utmost respect for Chan Pui's CMA accomplishments.. i will only relate that there is much more to Chan Pui than most people know, only a very few of us got to see the stuff legends are made of, he only shows a fraction of his abilities in public.. occasionally, during off-hours at the Temple, we would catch him practicing or doing stuff that required a leap of faith to comprehend.. and, he was in his late 50s or early 60s.. So, i caution people about off-handed remarks or taking poetic license with GM Chan Pui.. it's just bad Karma to distort a well earned reputation..

Be well..

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Greetings..

Well.. i trained directly with GM Chan Pui for 12 years.. 1990-2002.. i was fortunate to be included with the "inside students"..

then you've probably seen the state police video or know something about it.

Regardless of whatever controversy surrounds Chan Pui and the WL system, he is a remarkable martial artist that has developed a huge system of schools and sifus..

indeed, were it not for his marketing and magazine deals cma would still be a quiet whisper.

his students are consistent winners at tournaments (forms primarily).. i have utmost respect for Chan Pui's CMA accomplishments..

we agree that he is excellent for training a firm foundation for students in the CMA.


i will only relate that there is much more to Chan Pui than most people know,


Be well..

chan was a student of yip for 40 years. adam hsu was yip's first student. adam left before chan arrived and before the clf days. the entire fight thing came about from a basic lack of communication. the situation was resolved on another forum. these people claim thier master would never resolve anything through the web and they won't let their ignorance of these statements pass. every master of a system has a skeleton or three in thier closet. everybody makes mistakes. it's not every day you get to end a long-standing problem. i took some initiative knowing what i know and took it to chan as a resolvable problem. he has apologised in a way we can accept. but his students don't seem to want to accept it. durring the year of cleanliness we have to refrain from discussing the actual terms of disagreement and resolution. his apology becomes permenant at the end of the year if no exchanges of hands occur. that doesn't mean that he can't taunt us through his students. that's all. however, after the year of cleanliness if the taunting continues we have the right to force a trial of wah lum kwoons. we are clf.

bob, i respect a lot of what you say. some i discard because my experience is different.

in stillness,

[Ou Ji]

TCB, consider yourself lucky to have made it to the 'inside' as not many get that far even with that much time into a system.

Maybe you could tell us about the state police video. I forgot about that one. Surely you must know about it.

Yuan, or should I say Yawn, I for one hope the taunting continues because I would love to see this forced trial. Maybe it could occur along with the SF HSK forced trial with the Chan family.

Is that what you're all about? You are Chan family CLF claiming to preside over all CLF, Wah Lum and Wing Chun? Care to add anyone else in there?

But of course you won't be around that long because you'll have reincarnated yourself under a different name after this name gets banned for being a troll and publically slandering respected masters.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

YuanZhideDiZhen: I will tell you what i was told by Chan Pui.. His teacher was Lee Kwan Shan, and after Lee's death he continued the Hua Lin (Wah Lum) system with his older kung fu brother, Chan Wan Ching.. I have seen the photos, read the accounts, and held some of the weapons handed down from Lee.. Chan Pui's CLF connection was through Lee Koon Hung, his friend.. not his mentor..

I will simply say that your account is inconsistent with the words and evidence presented by Chan Pui, a man i know personally and trust.. if you have any evidence to support your claims i suggest you post it.. if not, i suggest you refrain from such fanciful notions.. essentially you are implying Chan Pui to be untruthful about his lineage.. Are you prepared to defend such claims with evidence, undeniable evidence? i don't mean "he said/she said", i mean undeniable evidence.. publications, photos, historic accounts, etc...

i took some initiative knowing what i know and took it to chan as a resolvable problem. he has apologised in a way we can accept. Please define "we" with names.. please describe the nature of such an "apology".. Please decribe how you "took it to Chan".. this is a request that i will confirm with Chan Pui, personally.. I do not wish to be mis-informed, if Chan Pui is untruthful i wish to be corrected.. if you are untruthful, there will be consequences.. and, without supporting evidence i have to assume that it is you that is untruthful.. correct me with verifiable evidence, or be vigilant..

Be well..

[Buddy]

C'mon mary,
You wouldn't know gongfu if it bit you bit you on the azz. BTW what kind of wine goes with deep fried hand?
Bob,
you have the patience of Job.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


you have the patience of Job.
Buddy: LOL, perhaps.. but, as my patience wanes i suspect this person has no clue about the "inside" workings of CMA.. like certain Tiger Claw masters, if you know what i mean..

Be well..

[Scott R. Brown]

Hello Everyone,

Back to the topic of distance power!

I am reminded of a story I read somewhere many years ago. It involves two friends who were samurai. They were about to embark on their training journeys; an event that many young samurai participated in to hone their skills and learn the methods of other MA’s. They agreed to meet at a specific spot 10 years hence in order to compare their learning. At the appointed time the two met. As they walked along a canal and compared notes, one of the samurai demonstrated to his friend how he had learned, through the use of internal power, to jump long distances by leaping across the canal. The other samurai walked over to the ferry and paid a small pittance to gain access to the other shore. The moral of the story was stated to be, why waste 10 years or more learning special powers when one may gain the same benefits through cheaper and more practical means?

The answer to this is query is merely: because it is interesting or fun to do! That is really all! These abilities do not grant an individual any special status, wisdom or spiritual advancement. They are skills and nothing more! Just like any other skill, they do not require the individual to possess unique maturity, spiritual knowledge, exceptional ethics or superior morals. The claim that these abilities demonstrate human potential is true. But so do many other more mundane actions. As an example: a gymnast performing a double back somersault, a skill which is much easier to learn than distance power! There are many, many other examples of exceptional human abilities that do not acquire any of the attending excessive amazement, honor or devotion to the “Master”.

I know of a MA style that is available to nearly anyone. It is not dependent upon ones age, wisdom, spiritual ability, education, status, intellectual ability or physical condition! It will allow a 6 year old to defeat any 250# well trained warrior! This force can defeat ANYONE, whether they have magical powers or not! It takes less practice than MA training, is significantly cheaper than learning most MA’s and is almost 100% effective with proper training in its application along with some rudimentary training in tactics. To train in this style one does not need to prove themselves worthy to a questionable “Master”, demonstrate their maturity, or prove advanced spirituality (whatever that is?).

What is this style?

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Greetings..


Buddy: LOL, perhaps.. but, as my patience wanes i suspect this person has no clue about the "inside" workings of CMA.. like certain Tiger Claw masters, if you know what i mean..

Be well..

you mean the negotiations and decisions being made by people you've never heard of? like now?

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

You're a troll and we all know it.
.

hello pot. i'm kettle.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

C'mon mary,
You wouldn't know gongfu if it bit you bit you on the azz. BTW what kind of wine goes with deep fried hand?
.

green mountain brand ha kai da bu jiao. otherwise known as "kung fu wine". :D

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Greetings..

YuanZhideDiZhen: I will tell you what i was told by Chan Pui.. His teacher was Lee Kwan Shan, and after Lee's death he continued the Hua Lin (Wah Lum) system with his older kung fu brother, Chan Wan Ching.. I have seen the photos, read the accounts, and held some of the weapons handed down from Lee.. Chan Pui's CLF connection was through Lee Koon Hung, his friend.. not his mentor..
.

okay, this is good. now we have some negotiating to do. first an explanation: i have been doing ethnohistory on the unrecorded histories of chinese martial arts. this takes some trolling.

there is no record of a Lee Kwan Shan before 1972. it appears as part of a story rendered to yong chun stylists in 1963 when two old men came to them for training. the yong chun stylists relate the story to reporters in 1972. can you give me some supporting documents that he indeed was a real and registered person in china, tai shan provence circa 1940-1960?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

GM Chan Pui's lineage and record are published and well known.. YuanZhideDiZhen has challenged the validity of GM Chan's words.. as challenger it is upon Yuan to produce verifiable evidence.. so i ask again:

Are you prepared to defend such claims with evidence, undeniable evidence? i don't mean "he said/she said", i mean undeniable evidence.. publications, photos, historic accounts, etc... He replies:
i have been doing ethnohistory on the unrecorded histories of chinese martial arts. this takes some trolling.... can you give me some supporting documents that he indeed was a real and registered person in china, tai shan provence circa 1940-1960?. He challenges with empty assertions, no evidence, and then, trying to slip the responsibility to back-up his claims, he requests documentation of a well known, well respected Master.. Yuan, divulge your identity, your teacher, and your lineage.. you know who i am and Chan Pui's identity is well known.. you disgrace yourself by challenging from a concealed position.. do the honorable thing, apologize and retreat into obscurity..
okay, this is good. now we have some negotiating to do. No, this is not a negotiation.. you have challenged the reputation of a well respected CMA Master.. back it up, or back down.. save the unverifiable stories for bed-time.. post verifiable information, or admit your ignorance..

Be well..

[Dale Dugas]

Yuan is nothing but a total coward.

TJB, He posts whatever he feels like as he hides behind his computer. He has no skills nor understands what being human is about.

He claimed to know me, and then slandered me after I PMed him as you cannot email him. That would be able to be traced and we could find where this yellow bellied ass clown lives.

Step up Yuan. TJB and I are waiting. You seem to be too much like Vasquez now son. You sure your not the same deluded individual?

This will not be going away son. You do not post crap about me and then expect me to walk away. Nor can Taijibob when you name masters, and slander them as well.

I am waiting you coward.

Dale Dugas

[Buddy]

Wait, this jamoke is trying to say Mr. Chan is really a wing chun guy? What a maroon, what a gulli-bull. Yoon you make all azzclowns of the world cringe in their dunce chairs that you are even considered one of them. But one of them, indeed. When you come to take your beating from Dale, I'll take seconds.

[Dale Dugas]

Buddy,

Another no name, no email addy, no balls fool who spouts all kinds of things out his rear, and seems to do it for the pure sake of inciting riots.

Hmm, sounds like Vasquez's butt boy Yuan to me...

Step up Yuan, Buddy and I are waiting to hear from you.

Dale

[Ou Ji]

there is no record of a Lee Kwan Shan before 1972. it appears as part of a story rendered to yong chun stylists in 1963 when two old men came to them for training. the yong chun stylists relate the story to reporters in 1972. can you give me some supporting documents that he indeed was a real and registered person in china, tai shan provence circa 1940-1960?

Registered person in China? Most of the ones still alive don't have birth certificates or any documentation let alone a guy that died in 1948.

You want proof he existed? Check out his picture on their website.

[Yamesk]

My goodness, did the fists start flying after page 3...


Alright, question; if Distance Power is not possible, what about touching someone with your hands if they were filled with chi? Could this cause damage, or could chi perhaps make your punches do a bit more damage than usual to an opponent?

Forgive my ignorance, but the concept of Chi in general has always interested me as well as its combat application. So far the only application of Chi I know is the "kiah."

I'm not trolling when I say this, I'm sincerely looking for answers to these questions.

As for ye who are flaming one another, come on guys.. let's try to get along, okay? :(

[Buddy]

LooK dude,
Qi is life force. How much do you have? Does it make a difference? Sure. How vital are you? Someone sick with cancer can't jump up their life force. I've been there. But if you train well you can kick start your qi. Then you have to train for martial arts.. or meditation or healing or what ever. The training is the same. But yoon is a h-mo joke

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Yamesk,

You will have to let these flamers work it out between themselves. It is something that happens frequently and you can't stop it even when it is beyond the topic of the thread! A Bulletin Board (BB) is like a free for all, everyone thinks they know what they are talking about and everyone thinks they are right, mostly! Sometimes there are people like you who are truly interested in learning, but mostly people come here to play or antagonize each other. There develops social alliances just like in the real world and people tend to gang up on each other too. The anonymity of the pseudonyms tends to make some individuals more vocal and less courteous than they would be in the real world with social conventions and shame to control their behavior. As you attend to the boards you will find those who seem to make sense and know something worth sharing and those who pretend. But first appearances can be deceiving too! Try to be patient and don’t get involved unless you are prepared to get knocked around a little bit. I participate once in a while myself when I am bored, but know when to give up. That is the key! Many individuals are like rabid dogs and won't stop until you decide to bow out!

One of the favorite means of ridicule is to label someone a troll. This occurs when one person doesn’t like the perspective of someone else, can't get the accused to agree with them and can't formulate an effective response. Then the postings devolve into a form of name calling. This is when the discussion is no longer worth your participation, unless you just like to mix it up for awhile. Try not to expect too much maturity from the others here. Not that there are not adults to interact with, but just understand you could be reading the postings of 15 year old with no real knowledge who sounds like a wise master on the one hand, but also a 50 year old with 30 or 40 years experience on the other who sounds just as bright, but also actually knows what he is talking about!

LOL!! But then again you could also read postings from 50 year olds with 30 or 40 years experience who dont know a hill of beans too!! So buyer beware!!

As to your question:

Chi can be defined in a number of different ways. You will find some disagreement on what it is specifically. It is more easily understood by its effects. But what some consider the effects of Chi can also be explained by other phenomena. Since most proofs concerning it are anecdotal and have very little scientific validation one could say Chi exists and has effects because we believe it does. Having said this it is best to learn or investigate for yourself and determine for yourself. Keep an open mind and understand that the human mind will allow you to see evidence when you want to see evidence, but it will make you also ignore evidence that doesn’t fit in with your preconceived notions as well. Our preconceived notions are the blinders we must learn to see beyond!

The bigger question should be: what is your ultimate purpose or goal? If it is to learn and grow that is one endeavor that will bring you benefits whether you actually confirm Chi for yourself or not. If it is to learn seemingly magical abilities that allow you to defend yourself and others, that is unlikely to occur. Even if these abilities are possible it is doubtful you will be fortunate enough to find a real instructor and if you find one your chances of actually developing these abilities is pretty low. I am not attempting to discourage you if this is what you are wishing for; I am merely adding some realistic perspective to the goal. Many effects attributed to Chi are not so fantastic once one understands the techniques or trick of it, so to speak. It is like learning a card trick. Once you know how it is done it loses its fascination and miraculous quality. It is no longer as romantic and mysterious as once thought. If I know a trick and don’t tell you how I am able to perform it then I have a sense of mystery to you and consequently I have a certain amount of power over you as well. That is to my advantage. I may charge you to learn my secrets, or I may just let you worship at my feet!

There are techniques that involve applying pressure to specific points of the body. These points contain nerves, tendons, veins and arteries. It is the manipulation of these physical points that, when applied properly, may disable an opponent. These techniques are worth learning, but will rarely be necessary or appropriate to perform under most self-defense conditions. It is really the grosser actions of punching and kicking that are the most effective.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

It's just like Scott.. perfect timing and reasoned wisdom.. okay, back to the topic..

Given the history of Qi, it is not surprising that the "science" of those that first conceived the notion of Qi considered it "mystical".. just as today, Qi as described by 2,000 year old texts, is elusive and without verifiable measurement.. but, as Scott suggests, there are observable effects that can fit the concept of Qi.. My own perspective is a blend of ancient notions and modern science.. i sense that there are forces at play that we can't yet pigeon-hole into a neat definition.. that there are recent developments in quantum and particle physics that allow for certain of those ancient notions to be accepted in theory.. while i am greatly intrigued by the concept of Qi, the disciplines for cultivating and harnessing Qi, and a sincere student of its potential.. i am also pragmatic.. Rather than search for "mystical fireballs" and such, i rely on those aspects of Qi which i have either experienced or can accept as rational potential.. (mind you, each of our standards for "rational" will differ)..

Energy, life-force, bio-electricity, etc... all valid notions that can account for the attributes of Qi.. suppose scientists collect exactly the correct elements, compounds and substances that comprise the make-up of a human being.. suppose further that they can assemble these to replicate the human body.. now, still, the assembled body is missing something, it is not "alive".. from my perspective, it is simply energy.. now, that energy may be applied in many ways, but.. there appears to be some cosmic connection beyond the scope of modern science in the dispensing and allocation of just the right proportions of energies to animate this fabricated body into a living being.. somehow, there seems to be a "mechanism" that makes these allocations and distributes energies appropriately to create "life" as we know it.. some people worship the mechanism as forms of dieties, or they assign it philosophical attributes, or.. they just don't know, but.. it seems clear to me that there are forces beyond our current level of comprehension that coordinate this process, or perhaps simply permit the process to find its own way in the cosmic dance.. physics assures us that the intentions of the observer affect the observation.. so, in observing the effects of energy on the body it stands to reason we can affect that energy with disciplined intentions.. from the perspective of consciousness affecting/effecting energies it seems that consciousness is in some very real way linked to the "mechanism".. so, that is my journey, i try to experience the various ways cultures and beliefs and such attempt to connect the consciousness with the physical experience and the universal experience.. from which, i am currently of the opinion that humans are limited in their scope of existence only by the self-imposed limits of their own perspectives and awarenesses.. that the consciousness, when fully realized, may indeed be able to utilize energies in ways currently considered impossible..

Now, back to my pragmatic side.. mankind's current level of evolution is not likely to produce many "fully realized consciousnesses".. but, each of us can contribute to subsequent generations' quests for "realization".. we can be open-minded, investigative, fearless in our attempts to reach greater consciousness and awareness.. pass these experiences on and build on past experiences.. MA systems, religious systems, philosophical systems, scientific systems, social systems, etc... are patterns of thoughts arranged, maintained and moved forward in the ebb and flow of the lives of people, societies and civilizations.. the effect of humans is a movement of knowledge forward through subsequent generations.. While i might not realize "Distance Power", i will hold open the option for others further along on the evolutionary scale.. maybe my children, maybe my students, maybe some little contribution i make will help someone else.. but, to write it off as impossible is to seal its fate as such.. Still, i train in the physical world, and i benefit from what insights i have gained.. energies are more useful now than before, they can be cultivated and used to enhance every aspect of my MA and my life.. but, dang it, those glowing fireballs of Qi just aren't happening yet..

Be well..

[Ou Ji]

Bob, there is only one. And it's an unbroken chain from parent to child. That's why you can't assemble the components of a human and expect it to come to life. You can only pinch off a piece of life energy (although it's physically separate from you it's still connected to the one life) and enjoy watching it grow and learn.

I am very open minded but extremely skeptical at the same time. Unfortunately for me I'll have to accept the kook label because I personally felt an energy I was told was Qi, just before the hand made contact with my body. Admittedly it was weak and at very close range. I fail to see any martial application based on my experience but I can't discount that it's a possibility. It was stronger once contact was made.

My skepticism is what prompted me to experience it for myself. I was lucky enough to have run into the real deal.

[Zhong Jia]

My skepticism is what prompted me to experience it for myself. I was lucky enough to have run into the real deal.

i've got beer. do tell!

[Zhong Jia]

Greetings..

back it up, or back down.. save the unverifiable stories for bed-time.. post verifiable information, or admit your ignorance..

Be well..

i don't know you and i'm new here but what i see is that you want this yuan person to purchase a magazine and print his version of the truth in it so many times tha any lie he is so brazen as to publish will be accepted as truth? i might as well change my name to Chan Pui....

i can feel sympathy for you having believed what you were told by someone whom you respect. but understand kungfu is like religion: there are as many truths as there are styles/religions. each master requires a sort of cult of personality to be successful. just be honest with yourself: you bought what was in an entertainment magazine and took it for truth. like the people whom watched orris and hazel and thought that it was real life. the stories are made to sell magazines. the stories told to the magazine reporters are changed slightly so that the magazine can own what it publishes. chan pui happens to own three kungfu related magazines and has controlling or speaking interest in most that even remotely cover kung fu. one group of reporters was fired for attempting to publish the truth about him. they started thier own magazine which was eventually bought out by tiger claw. do some homework.

[_William_]

Interesting how a "new poster" shares the same grammatical structure and style as YuanZhideDeZhen, eh?

;)

[Zhong Jia]

Interesting how a "new poster" shares the same grammatical structure and style as YuanZhideDeZhen, eh?

;)

you mean post grammar school, right? it could be a function of where i learned english: the D.C. metro area. it is an area full of diplomat's families and we share a common diction even though we are from different countries: many of my high school classmates took the state bar exam as thier highschool government final exam. it's just a reflection of our edjucation. perhaps it is why companies are chosing to hire Indians instead of Americans. they do seem to understand and speak better than most of you "True Blue Born and Bread Americans".

it could also be that you are psychologically imposing your own beliefs about whom you would like me to be to you upon me. i'm sorry you feel so bothered by Yuan. And i'm more perturbed by your predisposition towards me based on my mastery of your language. if you ever wondered why so many people not from America dislike you and your entertainment culture just look at your last post, Imperialist.

[_William_]

Oh man! thanks for the laugh dude! All I can say is
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Ou Ji]

i've got beer. do tell!

When you figure out how to send it through the computer so I can have my fill I'll give you the details. :D

You seem to know a bit about Chan Pui. Maybe you can fill us in on the big fight that Yawn alluded to but refuses to give any specific information.

Are you familiar with the CLF master Ip Man?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


do some homework.
Zhong Jia: Mine's done.. i know the man personally.. I don't know you or your sources.. you make many accusations with NO verifiable source.. same ol' crap, different wrapper.. I suggest that it is YOU, that has bought the stories of the envious people that would rather tear down a person's reputation, than admit the person's accomplishments.. so, to quote you, quoting me.....
back it up, or back down.. save the unverifiable stories for bed-time.. post verifiable information, or admit your ignorance..
Be well...

[Dale Dugas]

Zhong/Yawn/Vasquez are all the same person.

They know nothing and will accuse you of being unemployed as well as being a coward, yet they call you from your contact addy you posted for all to contact you while hiding behind restricted numbers and interney anonymity, all the while giggling like the little girl they are.

Man, you guys need some meds for the multiple personalities going on here.

Dale

[Buddy]

Unbelievable! I can't even begin to say what a complete and transparent boob this guy is.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Don't be such tools. Of course you can project your 'chee' - first you whip out your chee projector and cut loose. You can make someone damp within about six feet if you are really good.

Oh, um, I meant Pee.

[Dale Dugas]

Zhong Jia called me the other day and let me tell you. He seemed to be a white guy who had a very soft voice, and couldnt seem to keep a straight line of thought. His asked me why I have this apparent hatred against Yuan. What a tool...

He is obviously not what he claims he is. He is full of S H I T to the extent that his eyes are brown.

The funny thing is he thinks that if he keeps at it he will be what he thinks he is.

Another little stick who couldnt fight his way out of wet toilet paper who claims to practice all these forms of Taiji and yet cannot have the decency to call me from his "real" number and not a restricted one, and use his real name.

When I picked up his said this is "Zhong Jia" right, another ass clown call...

I had a good laugh after I told him how I felt about internet cowards, and phonies posting all this crap that some young malliable teen might read and take for gospel and try out some of the stupid s h i t.

Yuan/Zhong/Yuan are all the same deluded spiritually/physically weak little boys.

Master of nothing but the drek that leaks out his upper oral orifice.

Dale