Fu-Pow's world premiere.....

[Fu-Pow]

Here ya go folks...as promised in an earlier thread...a video of myself doing a form.

http://media.putfile.com/Ba-Gua-Saam87

BTW, you need Window Media Version 8.0 or higher to view it.

[CLFNole]

I like watching others do forms within our own lineage. Each teacher does things differently but for the most part its the same as the one I do.

[Ben Gash]

At what sort of level do you learn this set?

[Infrazael]

What form is that?

[CLFNole]

Baat Gwa Sum Kuen

[Fu-Pow]

At what sort of level do you learn this set?

Its an instructor level form , basically because it has a more complex combination of hand and foot work.

You might notice that I tend to do things in a very relaxed fashion. I think that is a combination of my personality and also my Chen Taiji study. However, if you watch the video in slow mo you will see that there is quite a bit of power in each move. Its just relaxed power vs. the power where you see the muscles tense up.

On this day I was doing things particularily slowly, especially at the beginning trying to emphasize each move. The stage that we were on tended to wobble around a lot which made it hard to emphasize a low stance.


I like watching others do forms within our own lineage. Each teacher does things differently but for the most part its the same as the one I do.

I do too. Sifu Mak has a very distinct style, very relaxed upper body but the footwork is very solid, almost like in Hung Gar but not as low.

[CLFNole]

Just about all of Lee Koon Hung's students have the relaxed upper body movements with the exception maybe of one group I can think of. The main differences come with stances and the flow and feel of the sets. That is generally where the differences are seen.

[Judge Pen]

Fu-Pow: Kudos for manning up and putting a form out there for public consumption. You have my respects.

How long have you been doing this form?

[MasterKiller]

Pretty fluid for a big boy. :p

Props to Fu-Pow!

[Infrazael]

Pretty fluid for a big boy. :p

Props to Fu-Pow!

My sihing's flexibility does scare all of us at the Kwoon.

He must be one some sort of drugs. . . . . . . . . :p


Just about all of Lee Koon Hung's students have the relaxed upper body movements with the exception maybe of one group I can think of. The main differences come with stances and the flow and feel of the sets. That is generally where the differences are seen.

So what would be the difference between say, Sifu Mak and Sifu Li Siu Hung?

Or the Irish folks and us? I'm betting the differences are very subtle, but that's bound to happen as personalities and preferences affect how we do our sets.

[brothernumber9]

There's a LKH branch school in Ireland?

[Chief Fox]

Nice job. Man that's a long set.

Very loose and fluid.

[Fu-Pow]

Thanks for the positive feedback.

Ben, I'm trying to think how long I've known that set....hmmm...must be like around 1 year to 1 1/2 years.

Its a very challenging form, a little shorter than our Saap Ji Kau Dah but some of the movements are more difficult than what you see in Saap Ji.

I've often wondered what the purpose of this form is (ie what its trying to teach). It feels very "long" ie you cover a lot of ground. I wonder if it is to teach you how to close the gap on a battle field and the jumps are to teach to evade attacks coming from many directions (as they would on a battle field).

As to the Baat Gwa aspect I guess if you think about it you move on the regular cross pattern but you also execute moves out from the "corners" of that cross pattern.

If you drew a line out from the center to everywhere you are during this form it would make 6 lines.

[Fu-Pow]

There's a LKH branch school in Ireland?

Sam Lee's school.

http://www.choylayfut-ireland.com/mainindex.html

[Galadriel]

There's a LKH branch school in Ireland?



yup, there's some of us in Ireland aswell at:

www.choylayfut-ireland.com

no videos though, but lots of photos.

would love to have one from every school/branch do the same form next to each other and compare the differences or similarities... should be interesting!!

Haven't had the chance to see Fu-Pow's video yet, but looking forward to it, as I'm just learning this form and forgotten half of it already since last night ;-)

Galadriel

[premier]

Hmh. This got me thinking that maybe tai ji and CLF don't mix that well?

I'm sorry and I'm not trying to put you down, but it looks a bit tired. Upper body doesn't turn enough and I don't see the power coming from the waist :o Or is this again just differences between the lineages?

[hskwarrior]

Fu pow,


Constructive advice: leave the tai chi alone, you're not that old yet.

also, each and every strike has to have some form of power behind it. even in soft hands, if you had the proper essence behind the moves it would show in your hands. any good fighter will know instantly your hands are really soft. You have no horse, and that has nothing to do with your height, and you move sort of slow.

in ghetto terminology: grab your balls and be a ****y mother ****er when you perform. Thats your ass out there. turn on that monster from inside and explode. then do just as your sigung would do, end on the most humble bow i have ever seen.

peace.

[BentMonk]

Respect to Fu for putting himself out there for review. I have to disagree w/premier. I see plenty of power generation from both waist and hips. Nice footwork too. Doing a form slowly to emphasize each movement is harder than blasting through it crazy fast. Of course I'm a SDer so what do I know? :D

[premier]

Doing a form slowly to emphasize each movement is harder than blasting through it crazy fast.

Yes, doing the form slowly with good technique is harder than sloppy "blasting through it crazy fast". But it's even harder doing it with good technique and crazy fast. That's the way CLF forms should be done. With correct stops in the middle of course. In CLF power is generated throught swift waist movement and here I don't see it.

But yeah, props for fu pow for putting the video online. It's a b*tch to listen people like me critisizing ;)

[yutyeesam]

Actually, I DO see the power. I'm of the same lineage, and I can just tell by the way Fu Pow is moving, that he has really awesome body control - this routine even tho I don't know it at all has a lot of the same combinations that permeate our forms. If he wanted to burst out and do the form "full speed and power", it would probably look like what you were expecting.

I think with the way he was easily able to go into Chang Fu and So Toi as low as he did it and spring back up so effortlessly is a testament to his footwork/sei ping ma.

Fu Pow- props man! Cool form. That footwork looks really challenging. What would be some forms that precede this in your guys' curriculum?

123


edited for technique names

[Fu-Pow]

Actually, I DO see the power. I'm of the same lineage, and I can just tell by the way Fu Pow is moving, that he has really awesome body control - this routine even tho I don't know it at all has a lot of the same combinations that permeate our forms. If he wanted to burst out and do the form "full speed and power", it would probably look like what you were expecting.

I think with the way he was easily able to go into Chang Fu and So Toi as low as he did it and spring back up so effortlessly is a testament to his footwork/sei ping ma.

Fu Pow- props man! Cool form. That footwork looks really challenging. What would be some forms that precede this in your guys' curriculum?

123


edited for technique names


Thanks for the positive feedback YutYeeSam. In the beginning part of the form I'm going real slow and deliberate, towards the end I pick up a little more speed. I'm by no means going as fast as I could do it. If I did I'd probably make a mistake.

To be honest, this is a particular "problem" form for me because it is so long and complex, with a lot of direction changes, so I tried to take my time with it. In past performances I couldn't make it all the way through and I'd have to make up an ending on the spot and bow out.

If I was doing Saap Ji Kau Dah or something that like that I could blaze through it alot faster and with more of a Saat Hei (killing air.) But Sifu always tells us to challenge ourselves in performance, to pick a form that maybe isn't our best, but to work on it for performance so in the long run you will make it better.

What do you mean by "what forms precede this in your guy's curriculum"? You mean what do we learn before we learn Baat Gwa Saam?

[yutyeesam]

In past performances I couldn't make it all the way through and I'd have to make up an ending on the spot and bow out.

I can't tell you how many times I've done that. I feel like such an a$$ afterwards, because I only practiced it a million times! :)


But Sifu always tells us to challenge ourselves in performance, to pick a form that maybe isn't our best, but to work on it for performance so in the long run you will make it better.

Great advice! And one that I wouldn't expect to hear from a teacher, because typically a teacher would want their performing students to put their best foot forward, which is more audience-centered. I like his student-centered approach!


What do you mean by "what forms precede this in your guy's curriculum"? You mean what do we learn before we learn Baat Gwa Saam?

Yeah. Like the 2 or 3 forms you have to learn before learning Baat Gwa Saam.

[Infrazael]

Yeah Sifu is a really humble and down-to-earth guy.

I have alot of respect for him.

[Galadriel]

Hey Guys,

we had a demo today, so put together this little medley:

http://media.putfile.com/CLF_Medley90

I'll put the single forms on pretty soon aswell, just need some organising of the space left on our server.

and also a world premiere:

Maggie "Whisper Spring" vs Black Belt, this was in 2003 at my house:

http://media.putfile.com/WhisperStar75


Galadriel

btw, should probably mention, this is my first attempt at video editing....

[Fu-Pow]

Thanks, glad to see more CLF folks putting there stuff up. I hope everyone can do it so we can all share and compare.

Anyways, I might put up a video of my Sifu sometime soon. I have a great clip of him from our tournament last year.

[Fu-Pow]

Yeah. Like the 2 or 3 forms you have to learn before learning Baat Gwa Saam.

Well past a certain level there is not a standard curriculum. I don't think Sifu had actually ever taught this form before a few years ago. I'm one of a handful of people that go to learn it...and may be the only one who still remembers it!!! Haha...just kidding...kind of.

Of course, my bros in Florida know it also.

If you are interested I could send you a copy of our curriculum.

[Infrazael]

Hey sihing did you get my phone message?

Thanks.

[kungfuyou]

hrrmmmm...I'm not able to DL or view the vid. NEone else having this problem?

[Mortal1]

fu-pow

I respect the fact that you put up a clip. I also respect the way you respond without getting defensive. So allow me to critique.

I do want to say I also didn't see any evidance of whole body connection in your movements. Your arms are moving independantly from your legs the whole time.

Also I agree you should put animalistic intent in your form or what is the point. The whole point is to remember your moves under combat pressure. Remembering it when your doing the form should be easy and natural.

I find if you memorize doing the form slow and deliberate it will never improve.

My old teacher would show one move a class. Only when I had mastered the prior movement with intent would he show me the next one. Everything we all do in kungfu should be done with feirce intent. If someone was standing there could they take the shot with no problem? If so somethings wrong.

Keep the clips coming and I look forward to your response. I will put up the Baji form I have been working on very soon. Next time we tape in class hopefully.

Anthony

[Mortal1]

First I want to say I respect the fact that you put up a clip for all to see. I also respect you not getting defensive in your responses.

I do want to say I also didn't see any evidance of whole body connection in your movements. Your arms are moving independantly from your legs the whole time.

Also I agree you should put animalistic intent in your form or what is the point. The whole point is to remember your moves under combat pressure. Remembering it when your doing the form should be easy and natural.

I find if you memorize doing the form slow and deliberate it will never improve.

My old teacher would show one move a class. Only when I had mastered the prior movement with intent would he show me the next one. Everything we all do in kungfu should be done with feirce intent. If someone was standing there could they take the shot with no problem? If so somethings wrong.

Keep the clips coming and I look forward to your response. I will put up the Baji form I have been working on very soon. Next time we tape in class hopefully.

Anthony

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Fu-Pow,

If you wouldn't mind....how long have you been training in CLF, CMA?

Just curious..

[Fu-Pow]

fu-pow

I respect the fact that you put up a clip. I also respect the way you respond without getting defensive. So allow me to critique.

I do want to say I also didn't see any evidance of whole body connection in your movements. Your arms are moving independantly from your legs the whole time.

Thanks for your honest criticism. As to the whole body connection, I'm not sure if its something that can be "seen" and specifically in an art like Choy Lay Fut its not as developed as it is in an art like Taiji or Baji for that matter. But, I'm not going to make excuses its just that I feel it, even if you can't see it. Also, I don't always feel it in every move and I think that "feeling" is what we're all moving toward.


Also I agree you should put animalistic intent in your form or what is the point. The whole point is to remember your moves under combat pressure. Remembering it when your doing the form should be easy and natural.

I find if you memorize doing the form slow and deliberate it will never improve.

My old teacher would show one move a class. Only when I had mastered the prior movement with intent would he show me the next one. Everything we all do in kungfu should be done with feirce intent. If someone was standing there could they take the shot with no problem? If so somethings wrong.

Keep the clips coming and I look forward to your response. I will put up the Baji form I have been working on very soon. Next time we tape in class hopefully.

Anthony

When I practice I usually do the form twice. Once, slow and deliberately and once fast at "fighting speed." The pace of the form is probably somewhere in between. I starting more slowly at the beginning because as I stated, this is a "problem" form for me and one of THE, if not THE most advanced form that I know. So you don't see a lot of "outward" intent. My intent is inward, trying to remember the form!!!

Also, if you knew my personality you would see that I'm not a real outwardly expressive guy. So you don't usually see a lot of expression when I perform. Something my Sifu, the consumate performer, is always after me about.

I take your criticisms seriously and I will definitely think seriously about your comments and some of the other, more constructive comments posted here.

Also, I hope to post a video of my Sifu here so you can see how its really supposed to be done!! ;)

[Fu-Pow]

Fu-Pow,

If you wouldn't mind....how long have you been training in CLF, CMA?

Just curious..

Next March it will be 10 years since I started Kung Fu. I started at a Hung Gar/CLF mixed school for one year. Then straight CLF for 9 years. About 7-8 years ago I started Hun Yuan Xin Yi Chen Shi Taiji Quan with a student of Feng Zhiquiang. But mostly I work on my CLF. Before that I did a little Tae Kwon Do, Aikido and Karate.

[Mortal1]

Wow that is a lot of training. lol

Keep up the hard work. I know your not expressive but just go hard and don't worry about what anyone thinks.

I look forward to your Sifu clips.
I also look forward to any critques you might have of my own clip when I finally get around to posting it.

Thanks
Anthony

[Fu-Pow]

Thanks for keeping it positive...my ego thanks you. :p

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Fu-Pow, who is your Sifu?

[Fu-Pow]

Fu-Pow, who is your Sifu?

Mak Hin Fai

[CLFNole]

Fu-Pow:

I am sure this isn't something you already don't know but in say 5 years when you look back on this clip you'll be thinking, "wow I have come along way". What I mean, with any form (especially the more advanced ones) it takes a number of years to really feel and understand it.

For example, I learned hok ying kuen around 1997 and used to perform it often. I looked at like a year or so ago and said to myself "what was I thinking". Yeah it was fast and the stances were pretty good but it didn't have the feel required for the set. After practicing the form for 8 years many little things became apparent and the form has new meaning to me now.

This is what kung fu is all about. Don't let anyone get you down. We all need to keep working hard so that our art can continue on.

Props for putting up the clip to begin with.

Lance

[hskwarrior]

fu pow, i have a clip on dvd when he was in singapore performing on stage.

if you pm me how and where to post a clip maybe i could put it up.

i also have a good clip of poon sing and his powerful ass hands, at his old ass age.

on this dvd is chui kwang yuen, dave lacey and his students, lee siu hung, mak kin fai, fut san hsk, leo chu, and a few other well known sifu's.

[Fu-Pow]

Fu-Pow:

I am sure this isn't something you already don't know but in say 5 years when you look back on this clip you'll be thinking, "wow I have come along way". What I mean, with any form (especially the more advanced ones) it takes a number of learns to really feel and understand it.

For example, I learned hok ying kuen around 1997 and used to perform it often. I looked at like a year or so ago and said to myself "what was I thinking". Yeah it was fast and the stances were pretty good but it didn't have the feel required for the set. After practicing the form for 8 years many little things became apparent and the form has new meaning to me now.

This is what kung fu is all about. Don't let anyone get you down. We all need to keep working hard so that our art can continue on.

Props for putting up the clip to begin with.

Lance


That's kind of where I'm at with this form. I'm not sure that I quite "get it." I mean I can execute the moves correctly and in the right sequence but what is this form all about? What is its purpose in the grand scheme of Choy Lay Fut? I think that part of it is that it is training you to do a lot of the techniques that you learned in earlier sets on the opposite side, with the other hand. Anyways, thanks for the feedback.

[Fu-Pow]

fu pow, i have a clip on dvd when he was in singapore performing on stage.

if you pm me how and where to post a clip maybe i could put it up.

i also have a good clip of poon sing and his powerful ass hands, at his old ass age.

on this dvd is chui kwang yuen, dave lacey and his students, lee siu hung, mak kin fai, fut san hsk, leo chu, and a few other well known sifu's.

Frank, I've seen that tape before. It would be a good thing to post because you can see the variety of Choy Lay Fut. Basically, you need to convert the DVD which is in MPEG-2 compressed format into a streaming file like Quicktime or Windows Media. Also, you wouldn't want to do the whole thing because if I recall its many hours long. If you're not sure how to do it, if you can burn me a copy of the DVD I could do it at home, edit it down and post it on the web.

[Galadriel]

ok, had a bit of time on my hands tonight, so finished the other little CLF clips, so here ye go:

http://www.choylayfut-ireland.com/videos.html

Looked at some clips of me from about 3/4 years ago and cringed ;-) Hope I improved in the meantime...

Galadriel