Forms / Taolu

[xiao]

hey,

I'm looking for more info about the history&origin of froms /taolu. Why and when were they created ... Were they really necessary to prepare a soldier for war, etc ?

Thxs in advance :)

[MasterKiller]

I thought Tan Tui originally had 28 roads, one for each letter of the muslim alphabet.

[sean_stonehart]

I thought Tan Tui originally had 28 roads, one for each letter of the muslim alphabet.

I read that somewhere as well, but only see the 10, 12, or 14 roads with the 10 called Muslim.

[MasterKiller]

well, mine is actually 13 roads, but the 13th road is only taught to instructors....


Tan tui is said to have been created in the Ming dynasty by ChaShagmir (a distinctly Moslem name even in Chinese). Chamir, as he was called, was among those who went to the coast to protect the shores of China against raids by Japanese pirates. However, on this long journey he became sick from the harsh weather conditions. He was left to recuperate in a mountain village in Guanxian County. His hosts in this small village were so kind to him that when he recovered that autumn and watched them practice their kung-fu after harvest he decided to teach them the art he had devised. They were grateful and his art spread far and wide from this origin. People took the first syllable of his name “Cha” and thus the style known as “cha chuan” – cha fist, was born. Originally its basis, the tan tui set, was composed of 28 routines – one for each letter of the Arabic alphabet. Eventually everything was compiled into the ten road spring leg which remains with us today.

http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45186

[Oso]

nice. good info.

AFAIK, the 14 road is strictly a seven star mantis version. comments?

couldn't 'routine' possibly just mean 'combination'? As in, the original 28 could have been simpler combos that combined into the original 10 roads. just a thought.

I'd heard that Gung Li(Lik) Kuen was a remnant form of a possibly one form system as well and was muslim in origin.

[xiao]

Indeed good info..

But still why they created forms to prepare for a fight/war ..... :confused:

[NorthernShaolin]

Forms were not as long as the forms that we have today. They were generally short with limited number of techniques (usually 9 to 12) but forms were a very direct method of transmitting techniques to a large number of soldiers in a short time period. Usually the Generals were the best fighters but they were not expected to fight all the battles. So it was up to the General(s) to develop a quick method to teach his soldiers effective combat techniques (of which either the General learned or developed himself) in a quick and orderly manner. A good example is Yuen Fei who in the Sung Dynasty taught his army quick simple techniques from several styles such as Fan Tzu, Shaolin, etc. When his army disassembled, the soldiers returned to other lives and with that continued to practice these techniques in a certain order or sequence. These sequences were then passed on to the next generation and further developed.

Another point... a General was only as good as how effective his army was in combat which really depened on what was originally taught to them and how well they could remember the techniques.