Kung Fu Star In Brothel Bust

[Mulong]

September 15, 2005 -- Long Island cops say they've busted a crouching tiger in his hidden brothel.
Martial-arts expert and actor Gao Xian, 47, who trained the stars of the hit film "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," was charged yesterday with running a prostitution ring out of his Port Jefferson Station kung fu studio.

Inside the studio was a massage parlor that that was actually a front for prostitution, cops said.

Gao was charged with promoting prostitution and criminal nuisance.

Three women employees were also busted when cops raided the business.

Gao appeared in "Crouching Tiger" as well as numerous other martial arts movies. Kieran Crowley

[SPJ]

That is a sad story.

"Pornified" is a new term used by many in the business circles.

If you look at the covers of many mag, there will be beautiful models featured.

Models near the new car convention.

Models near the digital gaming devices, electronics---

People are there for the products in the trade show or for the models.

In Taiwan, there are girls dressed less in the Bing Lang vending stands. BL is chewing tabaco of some sort. You have to spit after you chew. The girls are called Bing Lang Xi Shi.

--

[Kristoffer]

porn and prostitution aint the same thing

[SPJ]

They are not, indeed.

:D

[TenTigers]

Bing Lang are also called Betal Nuts, I have heard that they give one a euphoric effect. They also make your teeth black. I have never tried it as they don't seem to have them in the US. How do you say it in Cantonese?
Back to topic. I can't find any news on this anywhere, could you post the link?

[SPJ]

news (http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/28140.htm)

:(

[Face2Fist]

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/28140.htm

[Face2Fist]

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/28140.htm

and who says kung fu is not gangsta!!!

[David Jamieson]

Hard times in the land of plenty?

Imo, prostitution should be legalized and regulated.

This would remove the criminal element, raise the standard of health in the business and would generally take it out of the shadows of stigma and shame.

I'd rather have a place where hookers can plie their trade without fear than to have a whole society in denial becaues of some superficial bogus puritan nonsense.

So many pecadillos we all have that we like to make a lot of noise aout the other guys faults as to take away the eyes that are focused on our own.

[ngokfei]

what a slap in the face to his teacher (Ma).

Now I just checked with my NYPD buddies and the case is pretty vague in certain areas.

Remeber Brian Gray, innocent until proven guilty..

[Ben Gash]

In true Canadian liberal fashion you miss the point Kung Lek :p Better welfare and effective policing and prosecution of pimps and johns is the way to control prostitution. You are describing prostitutes as empowered women taking control of their sexuality and their finances. This is nonsense. Prostitutes are victims. Victims of circumstance,victims of society,victims of drug pushers and sadly very often victims of their clients. Most prostitutes are kids who've been kicked out or run away from home, young mothers who've been kicked out by their ex, or heroin and crack addicts. They don't want better working conditions, they want a way out. You think having a nice purpose built place will make it any more bearable giving a BJ to a fat middle aged buisness man? Why should they be forced to trade the one thing that's truly theirs?

[Mel]

So true, Ben Gash!! On the one hand, legalization would "clean things up" a bit (and bring in more tax revenue.) But on the other, how can you "clean up" sexual slavery? You can't. You want to try? Tell the Johns to get a life! How pathetic is it that you have to pay for sex?

Those who see prostitutes as possible femal entrepreneurs do so from a safe distance, knowing they will never be in such a situation.

[MasterKiller]

Why should they be forced to trade the one thing that's truly theirs?

Why should the government be able to tell them they can't trade something that is truly theirs?

[Face2Fist]

So true, Ben Gash!! On the one hand, legalization would "clean things up" a bit (and bring in more tax revenue.) But on the other, how can you "clean up" sexual slavery? You can't. You want to try? Tell the Johns to get a life! How pathetic is it that you have to pay for sex?

Those who see prostitutes as possible femal entrepreneurs do so from a safe distance, knowing they will never be in such a situation.


i bet women, are just knocking at your door, huh?

if prostitution were to be legalized, it would mean mandatory AIDS check ups, safe environment for them and etc etc..


this a kung fu (hahaha) forum, so heres a question you think the wh*res knew kung fu?

[GeneChing]

I know Gao Xian. We got really drunk together at Taiji Legacy once. He was our cover story in May June 2002 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=232).

Can someone cut and paste the whole news story on this thread? Also I would be very interested to read any follow up reports.

[Mel]

No, Face2Fist, women are not knocking at my door. Why would they?

When you talk about legalization, you talk about AIDS check ups and a safe environment. Do you really think legalization would do that? How many inspectors/code enforcement agents are paid off for myriad things these days? Do you think it would be any different in prostitution? So how "safe" would people actually be?

Also, it sounds like you are thinking of a "safe environment" for the Johns, i.e., no AIDS. Sexually transmitted diseases are only ONE thing prostitutes have to worry about. I don't think legalization will stop them from getting beaten by their pimps and Johns. Or does that not matter?

[David Jamieson]

Ben-

You have a suprisingly negative view of something you likely know little about?

How many prostitutes do you actually know?

I know a few. And yes, some are there vis a vis desperate acts in desperate times, but there are many more layers to that onion than the surface that you speak of. I've worked in clubs, I've known quite a few girls who use the trade as a ways and means of getting finances.

There are girls in dance clubs who strip and are prostitutes on the side. they are in it for the money. the money can be outstanding. I would also say there are some in it who are mentally unstable and unable to forge a different life for themselves. Does this mean we should deny them the mechanism of survival regardless of how we may view it from or p.o.v moralistically?

It's a perspective issue if you want to call your own morality into it and the sensationalized stories that come out of the red light areas of many a city.

My best advice is to look to those countries where it is legal and goverened and regulated.

I would also ask you to take a look at places like Nevada in the states where a girl can work a place like the bunny ranch, make a couple of grand american in an evening for a few hours of sexual activity.

Any profession will have its people within it that are oppressed and feel used and have no way out. To blanket the field of prostitution as such is to not look at it for what it truly is.

I disagree with your point of view, but I accept that there are factors you have implicated that are true. Those factors I would suggest would be significantly diminished by a different stance on the matter as indicated. IE remove the criminal element. Also, some may say apples and oranges, but what about the porn industry? From a puritan moralistic standpoint, it is no different. Legitimate porn on the other hand is an socially accepted multi billion dollar industry that less inhibited folks are making good bank in and are not druggies, pimped or otherwise. Free agents for the most part, doing what they like to do and getting paid lots for it.

If prostitution was given the same shake instead of being chased into the shadows by a bunch of f@cking hypocritical d1cks, the problems you associate with it would be decimated quickly.

[Radhnoti]

MasterKiller - "Why should the government be able to tell them they can't trade something that is truly theirs?"

Amen to that.

Isn't there an almost incalculable number of people "forced" into their situation? What about the girl working for minimum wage at McDonalds? Wasn't she "forced" in the same way into working there? Not enough education/opportunity/experience or whatever...

I have to agree with KL...er...David Jamieson, it's a societal enforcement of a puritanical ideal


Government regulation/interference with almost ANYTHING makes things worse.

Wow, just agreed with MK and DJ...I'm showing the liberal side of my libertarian ideals I suppose... :)

[Ben Gash]

Jamieson, I'm a healthcare worker, remember? You only need to watch one of the myriad documentaries on the moonlight bunny ranch to see that those girls are exploited on many levels, they just get paid well and have a nice place to work in (as mentioned earlier). As for porn, well that's a whole other ball game, but really these issues are far bigger than we can meaningfully discuss here.
Masterkiller, what is it with americans and this issue? One purpose of democratic government is to protect it's people from exploitation. You complain loudly enough when they fail in this.
Jamieson, yet again showing typically liberal characteristics of making personal insults against people who hold a different viewpoint than yourself. A shame really as I'd fight and die for your right to express yours. The tyrranny of liberalism eh :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

Jamieson, I'm a healthcare worker, remember? You only need to watch one of the myriad documentaries on the moonlight bunny ranch to see that those girls are exploited on many levels, they just get paid well and have a nice place to work in (as mentioned earlier). As for porn, well that's a whole other ball game, but really these issues are far bigger than we can meaningfully discuss here.
Masterkiller, what is it with americans and this issue? One purpose of democratic government is to protect it's people from exploitation. You complain loudly enough when they fail in this.
Jamieson, yet again showing typically liberal characteristics of making personal insults against people who hold a different viewpoint than yourself. A shame really as I'd fight and die for your right to express yours. The tyrranny of liberalism eh :rolleyes:

Uh, relax Gash. I don't recall personally insulting you. Where are you getting that from? I am saying that the persecution and driving into the shadows of prostitues IS the problem, not prostitution itself.

No need to get all hot under the collar. And that's great that you're a health care worker, but my question was how many of these girls do you actually know?

Also, since when is being liberal minded a bad thing? I find it better than adhereing to fascist or puritan attitudes. :p

[PangQuan]

Prostitution is one of the oldest professions known to human kind.

I have never "purchased" a prostitute and never will, but. if you get them off the street, regulate, lay down laws and rules, it will no doubt lessen the risks assosiated with this type of activity.

NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PROSTITUTES. If you truly care an ounce about these abused and cornered women, you would support legalization, because it WOULD improve their situation within prostitution.

Im not here to argue, this is just common sense. Really sit there and think about it.

betty is on the corner getting beaten by her john. remove his ass put her in a brothel with a state approved "boss" and things would change for betty. she will still be a hooker, but wont be in the same exact situation. regulations and routine checks and compliances can make a BIG difference.

No matter how much you dissaprove of prostitution or the legalization of it, will not change how things work.

[mantis108]

I agreed with SPJ that "Porn", which I prefer the term Adult Entertainment, is different from prositution IMHO. Note that the keyword here is ADULT. Being 21 or even 50 years of age for that matter don't automatically make a person ADULT.

The idea that the sex trade in general is bad and sinful is pretty much a North American Puritan Complex hyprocrisy. The truth is all about the tax dollars and the power over property of men (women in general). Those are the things law makers usually (sorry old ****) males or (dried up old prume) females are after. They can't get it up in the first place so it's no matter to them one way or the other. :eeks:

In North America, why is it okay to buy drug to poison your own body but you have no right to make some money with your body? Aren't the Star pronifying themselves? Isn't that fact that your buying gifts, meals and even opening an bank account/credit card for your "girlfriend" or wife for that matter an attempt to buy sex from her? Technically speaking no one show have sex at all whether it is for procreation or recreation under those conditions. These are personal choice and decision. So one is okay one not? [Why am I seeing Armish paradise?] :D

DJ has a point that the money that the girls make are pretty impressive.

If we charge the drug trade and the sex trade with the same standard that everyone involve buyers, sellers, users all guilt as hell, I can guarantee you at least half of those Law makers and politicians (like they don't ponify themselves to get your vote) would be in jail.

Morality is a human condition it's all relative. It's all spin doctors' BULL Crapola.

Mantis108

[lkfmdc]

May I be the first one to state the f-in truest of the true

Men, whether you want to realize it or not, you "pay" for sex... it just isn't always as direct as "prostitution" but "sex" has always been an economy and always will be.....

[Mortal1]

Just kill the hooker when your done=not paying. Is that wrong? :p

[SimonM]

In true Canadian liberal fashion you miss the point Kung Lek :p

Ben I think you miss an important point: If prostitutes are the victims why do we arrest them? If prostitution is decriminalized it helps to ameliorate the most harmful aspects of prostitution. For instance: if a prostitute can go to the police when harrassed she has a bit more protection against pimps. By moving prostitutes into the criminal sub-culture it makes them targets of further victimization.

Yeah, giving fat businessmen blowjobs is probably not their idea of a great business plan.

However who is a worse victim?

A prostitute who willingly plys her trade and keeps the money?

or

A prostitute who will be beaten by her pimp and possibly killed if she doesn't get enough johns and who then turns all her money over to the psychotic thug who treats her as his slave?

Legalize prostitution and you will get more in category 1 and fewer in category 2. I'm not saying it will end pimping. It will just make it a bit easier to escape from these *******s.

Oh and Ben: Before you try to use the word Liberal to categorize me remember I am a socialist. That is a different political philosophy from liberalism.

[Mel]

And THAT is exactly why prostitution will always be "wrong." Yes, we all know Mortal1 was kidding. At least we hope so. :eek: But the fact that such a joke could be made is quite telling: that the sex trade worker's life is worth so little, is so meaningless, that killing her is "funny." She is not even a human being. She is a used paper towel, to toss out when you're done with it. Geesh.

But getting back to the topic :rolleyes: , I think people get shocked when they read a story like that because most of us tend to put our shufus on a pedestal. We expect "more" out of them. We even idolize them. Then when they disappoint us, we feel betrayed and become judgmental. Of course, they are only human too. And yet.....if you're going to be in the position of shufu, shouldn't you be modeling exemplary behavior? But then, what is exemplary behavior? Ack! Back to the same discussion! :p

Mel

[Mel]

Simon, prostitutes ARE victims. But you are right: we do arrest them. Why? Because the system is run, for the most part, by the same people (sex) committing the crimes.

[Ben Gash]

Simon, in the very next sentence I advocated prosecution of johns and pimps. These after all are the real offenders.
David, a general social liberalism is a generally good thing. However, increasingly in the last decade we have seen the rise of a smug, superior and very agressive politically correct "liberalism" amongst people from a certain middle class educated background. This type of liberalism takes an extremely permissive (liberal and permissive are not the same) view and treats anyone who does not agree as hypocritical ****heads. :rolleyes:
At the end of the day, if your 18 year old daughter came home from seeing a careers counsellor and said "mom, dad, I wanna be a hooker" would you be in favour? No? Why not? That disquiet is there for a reason.

[Ben Gash]

And yes, I've met many sex workers through my work.
Ross, actually I'd say that I've never paid for sex in any way, except maybe at an extremely abstract level. For me sex is simply a physical manifestation of my emotional relationship. If I buy my wife a gift it's certainly not with any expectation of physical reward (I'm sure you've found in your own marriage that there really isn't a reliable correlation anyway). Emotional genuiness is usually the best way to get sex :cool:

[David Jamieson]

David, a general social liberalism is a generally good thing. However, increasingly in the last decade we have seen the rise of a smug, superior and very agressive politically correct "liberalism" amongst people from a certain middle class educated background. This type of liberalism takes an extremely permissive (liberal and permissive are not the same) view and treats anyone who does not agree as hypocritical ****heads.

At the end of the day, if your 18 year old daughter came home from seeing a careers counsellor and said "mom, dad, I wanna be a hooker" would you be in favour? No? Why not? That disquiet is there for a reason.


Your view of the left of centre is a bit sweeping. smug? superior? aggressive political correctness? a 'certain' background? I don't know where you're getting your stats from Ben. I don't think the social compact as it stands is the greatest but at least it is something and if it isn't flexible and changeable according to the zeitgeist then it is no longer a social compact.

By the way, there is some good to be said about the core of political correctness. It perpetuates memes that break down barriers of racism, sexism and otherwise undesirable traits of our society that were contrary to these behaviours prior to this. It also comes with it's own set of folly. I think the good outweighs the bad, but I understand how goofy it can get.

Now, seeing as your last question is hypothetical, then let's say my hypothetical answer to it assumes that being a hooker is a career choice that is sound, profitable, safe, legal etc etc. And considering the fact that she is 18 years old, I would have to accept her decision. She may be my daughter, but I don't own her I don't own her victories or failures. She owns that decision. If it doesn't work out, I am there to help. It's perspective.

[mantis108]

Emotional genuineness won't get one laid. Because women will easy think that sex will "spoil" it. Intimacy with a woman is like the reflection of the moon in the water. It's no more than an illusion. Unless you are prepared to run a platoic marathone with the woman, you will need a large dose of emotional dependency from her that is if she "trust" you. Better yet a few pints and some weeds would do the job effeciently (not that I advocate it but it's a fact). ;) Cavemen club their spouses of choice for a reason. :D Those birds won't see a good man unless they get a good smacking in the head or a few stingying stabs in the heart. Don't you just love the Zen approach to love?!

Mantis108

[Ben Gash]

David, most people would consider me to be left of centre ;) I am describing one section of the liberal community, the tendencies of which you aped somewhat in a previous post.
That was a bit of a non answer really, you skirted the spirit of the question admirably ;)

[SPJ]

Bing Lang Xi Shi (http://channels.crienglish.com/chinastic/content.aspx?id=6637)

She won women TKD Olympic gold for Taiwan. She was Bing Lang Xi Shi for a while. (http://news.163.com/special/b/binlang040901.html)

So dun mess with them.

:D

[SimonM]

Simon, prostitutes ARE victims. But you are right: we do arrest them. Why? Because the system is run, for the most part, by the same people (sex) committing the crimes.

Mel that is why most modern sociologists - pretty much across theory (marxists, structural functionalists, the lot) support the idea of decriminalizing prostitution. It won't end the victimization of prostitutes but it is one thing we can do to ameliorate their suffering. Arresting prostitutes does not do this.

[SPJ]

A related story. They are going to make a movie about her. She was rebellious and left home at age of 16. She worked as a Bing Lang Xi Shi and at video game parlor to make ends meet. She won TKD world game and then at the Olympic.

:D

[BlueTravesty]

Though I am a Christian, and thus would not partake of prostitution as it is against my beliefs, I do not think it is the responsibility of the law to "protect" us from it. I believe it's a person's responsibility to avoid prostitution if they believe it is wrong. The simple fact is, the mystique and aura of taboo caused by sweeping prostitution and pornography under the rug only exacerbates the problem of hypocrisy among people who believe these things to be sinful or morally wayward.

If a man believes that prostitution is wrong, and yet lives in a society that keeps him from being exposed to it, where does the strength of that person's convictions lie? That said, if prostitution were legalized, there's not a single Protestant, Bhuddist Monk, Catholic, etc who should be affected, since aversion to prostitution should come from one's own personal convictions, and not the State's enforcement of them. If nothing else, it might help people to who are just in it for the "spiritual feel-goodness" of it to look elsewhere for their cake-less icing.

[David Jamieson]

Though I am a Christian, and thus would not partake of prostitution as it is against my beliefs, *snip*

Not wanting to turn this into a religious debate, but how does christianity conflict with prostitution?

[FuXnDajenariht]

prolly has something ta do with not gettin any except with your wife and the whole faithfulness thing. which would preclude paying for it. even if theres no passages against in, im sure jesus wasn't hittin the brothels tho David. heh

[David Jamieson]

prolly has something ta do with not gettin any except with your wife and the whole faithfulness thing. which would preclude paying for it. even if theres no passages against in, im sure jesus wasn't hittin the brothels tho David. heh


uh...his right hand chica was mary magadalene. ergo, he musta been in a brothel at least once to hook up with her. Also, he was criticized (according to the gospels) for spending all his time hanging out with what were considered the dregs of society.

why do you suppose jesus did this?

oops, here comes that religious debate. prepare your noodle!

[FuXnDajenariht]

lol i dont know...i doubt anyone has 100% proof of how jesus lived. all we have is bits and pieces of what he taught and (mis, re)interpretations of the rest.

lol and did you get that mary madge stuff from the da vinci code? im all for alternative views of christian history as you mighta noticed but i dont think thats a real reliable source... :confused: does becoming friends with a hooker automatically mean you've paid for it?

i know there are actually "good" reasons for celibacy in most religions when you get into the metaphysically portions but it doesn't apply to 99% of people. a few christians not knowing why, just go along with the sex is bad party line cuz some catholic guy couldn't get it up a thousand or so years ago and decided no one should have any fun. looking down on everyone is apparently more fun to some. but there are reasons in the good book for why whoring yourself out isn't the healthiest thing in the world to do. your body is gods temple and all that. i suspect it was a practical thing too. you could just as easily bring back something to your wife back then as you can today. beliefs are beliefs tho. they dont have to make sense to you or me

[Ben Gash]

why do you suppose jesus did this?
As it says, "a healthy man does not need a doctor". Also, she jacked in the prostitution thing when she became a follower of Jesus. As to where he met her, we've both said on this thread that we've met several prostitutes, and I know I haven't been to a brothel ;)

[Ben Gash]

Not wanting to turn this into a religious debate, but how does christianity conflict with prostitution?
1 Corinthians, chapter 6 verses 15 - 18
"Do you not know that that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not!
Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her?" For the two", He says " shall become one flesh"
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him
Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body."
Also, did you know that there is no mention in the Bible anywhere that Mary Magdelene was a prostitute? It is a myth of popular culture. I've learned something today.

[David Jamieson]

lol i dont know...i doubt anyone has any 100% proof of how the jesus lived. all we have is bits and pieces of what he taught and (mis, re)interpretations of the rest.

lol and did you get that mary madge stuff from the da vinci code? im all for alternative views of christian history as you mighta noticed but i dont think thats a real reliable source... :confused: does becoming friends with a hooker automatically mean you've paid for it?

i know there are actually "good" reasons for celibacy in most religions when you get into the metaphysically portions but it doesn't apply to 99% of people. a few christians not knowing why, just go along with the sex is bad party line cuz some catholic guy couldn't get it up a thousand or so years ago and decided no one should have any fun. looking down on everyone is apparently more fun to some. but there are reasons in the good book for why whoring yourself out isn't the healthiest thing in the world to do. your body is gods temple and all that. i suspect it was a practical thing too. you could just as easily bring back something to your wife back then as you can today. beliefs are beliefs tho. they dont have to make sense to you or me

uh, no, that stuff although regurgitated and embellished upon as it was in dan browns questionable novel of gnostic gleefulness, comes from the gospels.

Give the new testament a glance through. The mary mag story is there. And jesus went to the brothel, more than once.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magdalene

[Ben Gash]

While the Catholic viewpoint on sex is somewhat skiewed (what do you expect with a celibate priesthood?), the wider Christian view is that monogamy is physically, spiritually and emotionally healthy, and that sex within this context is a good and godly thing (Indeed, this is discussed in the 2nd chapter of Genesis, so it must be relatively important). Indeed, Paul instructs husbands and wives not to deny themselves to each other.
Conversely, it views promiscuity as emotionally damageing and personally destructive. It views recreational sex as shallow (difficult to argue with) personally and physically degrading, and leading to addiction and emotional dependence.
Anyway, any news updates?

[Ben Gash]

Um actually David, that link supports my statement.

[TenTigers]

Man, no wonder I haven't been able to sign anyone up lately. I'm giving out free uniforms, and this guy's giving out Happy Endings! I tell ya, the competition's fierce around here!

[Ben Gash]

LOL :D :cool:

[Vasquez]

The main thing to learn is tantric sex, if you can control your orgasm you would not lose too much chi while having sex with prostitutes.

[BlueTravesty]

I'm so glad myriad ligaments between my right toes have returned to their original position :) I missed practicing Dai Jing Kuen. But anywho....


Not wanting to turn this into a religious debate, but how does christianity conflict with prostitution?
Thank you for your tact, and I have to agree, religious debates on ANY forum tend to get messy, so let us avoid such a thing at all costs. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let us avoid it. PLEASE.

In Christianity, extramarital sex is considered a sin. This would include prostitution, as well as adultery and premarital sex (and lustful thoughts. Though those come up every once in awhile for any person, it is best to simply repent and move on before thoughts lead to fantasies, fantasies to plans, and plans to deeds.) One sticky situation (no pun intended) would be a man finding out his wife was a prostitute. At that point, the man would have the option to either

A) continue in his marriage with the woman, in hopes that he might "bring her around" (though for the sake of his health, he should probably refrain from having sex with her)

Or B) From what I understand (and that is admittedly little, though I try) the hypothetical husband in this case would be permitted to divorce his wife upon finding this out, but not to remarry (and by extension, remain celibate, i guess.)

What if the wife decides to leave? According to 1 Corinthians 7:15 "If the unbelieving (an unbelieving spouse in the context of this epistle) departs, let them depart. A brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases..." Should the hypothetical prostitute-wife be the one to leave, he would be permitted to remarry (that is my interpretation of the "not under bondage" part.)
I could be incorrect on this, I admittedly have not looked into it much as I am happily married and intend to remain so :D

Please don't take this as a sermon or "thou-shalt do this" sort of thing, as I do not wish to engage in a lifestyleX vs. lifestyleY debate. I just wanted to answer the question as thoroughly as I could (and to avoid the dreaded "bible-thump.")

[BlueTravesty]

The main thing to learn is tantric sex, if you can control your orgasm you would not lose too much chi while having sex with prostitutes.

LOL!!
I guess you DO have your funny moments, Vasquez. Have a cookie :rolleyes:

[SPJ]

Sex has nothing to do with your Qi flow or reserve.

Sex will deplete your preheaven and post heaven Jing or life force stored in your kidney.

So if you overdo your housework, you will lose Yang and Yin Jing in your kidney.

Your Yin temple or Yin Tang will turn dark on top of your nose.

You will have a deficiency or failure of your Yang or Yang Shuai.

Without Yang Jing, you will withern like a old plum.

:eek:

[SPJ]

pornification of commercial ads (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-09/16/content_3498891.htm)

A trend?

:eek:

[SimonM]

Perhaps for the last thirty or so years SPJ. For a second I thought you were going to show one of those Guess or Calvin Klein ads from the 1990s.

[Vasquez]

Sex can't be that bad for the chi. Sifu's used to tell that to students so they don't hit on their daughters. My sifu told me that - sex in excess is ok if you practice tantrix methods.

[TonyM.]

Prostitution should be legal. If I believed capitol punishment was OK pimps should be the first to go. Otherwise they should be locked in a box .

[SimonM]

I cannot support capital punishment for any crime but I think that pimping should carry a life sentence. Lock 'em away since they aren't fit to associate with their fellow human beings.

[Vasquez]

Why are people so unkind?

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

September 15, 2005 -- Long Island cops say they've busted a crouching tiger in his hidden brothel.
Martial-arts expert and actor Gao Xian, 47, who trained the stars of the hit film "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," was charged yesterday with running a prostitution ring out of his Port Jefferson Station kung fu studio.

Inside the studio was a massage parlor that that was actually a front for prostitution, cops said.

Gao was charged with promoting prostitution and criminal nuisance.

Three women employees were also busted when cops raided the business.

Gao appeared in "Crouching Tiger" as well as numerous other martial arts movies. Kieran Crowley

now, is mulong kieran Crowley, fox news reporter and supporting anchor and grandson of Lam Jo?

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Why are people so unkind?

it is in the nature of most humans to goad or be goaded by others. it is a way of establishing a pecking order. nice guys finish last, or so they say: malachai may have prooved us wrong on that one, though. but statistically he's a freak. one out of 300million is not a bad rate for proof. your chance of getting struck by lightning is greater than being as kniving and cunning as that guy. do you need the shelter of a shading wing? what do you know of the provider of that shade? or even of the experience attached to the wing? malachai once said, "to understand great compassion one has to know great suffering." which is actually a quote of another great philosopher and social activist.

it's a mean bitter cruel world. unkindness exists so that you will treasure the moments of respite: that you would know kindness when it graces you.

[Ben Gash]

Blue Travesty, the man would be allowed to remarry, as according to the Gospel of Matthew, adultery is acceptable grounds for divorce.

[Vasquez]

YuanZhideDiZhen,

I understand, that's why the shaolins got burned down played out by the trusted monk ho tured bad. or the 13th deciple who got his master crucified.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

YuanZhideDiZhen,

the trusted monk ho tu red, bad. or the 13th deciple who got his master crucified.

politics? religion? one and the same!

[Vasquez]

that's why we need to separarte church from state. dong ma?

[ngokfei]

knew there was a twist to this thing.

found out that Xian Gao states that he was subletting the back of his studio to "Massage therapists". He was unaware of the Prostitution since it occurred after school hours.

its a shame though if its true

He is unable to get bailed out ($125,000?) due to not being a US citizen

You see what happens when a school doesn't put up a "Sun Toi or Day Ju or even to get the school blessed :D

if he's innocent hope it turns out okay for him. He's actually a very good instructor.

peace

[Gentle Warrior]

Hello everybody...

My name is Ken, and I've been a student of Gao Xian for about a little over 4 years. I just happened to come across this post, and give a little perspective on things.

First of all, it is true that he was subletting the place for the "massage therapists". What they did there, I don't know, as I mainly trained at the Manhattan and Flushing locations,though I've been to the Port Jefferson location a number of times... I didn't see anything terribly incriminating, but I leave that for the police and judge to decide in November for the trial. In any case, all of the alleged activities did indeed happen after school hours, contrary to anything the local NY and the chinese media might have said. The schools, and the training, was not a front... it is a valid operation and a geniune wushu training place. Any that have doubts about this are more than welcome to come and watch.
After all, newspapers need big headlines to sell copies... not everything that is in print is necessarily true.

Secondly, the bail was probably more like $12,500 and not $125,000 as posted... He has been out of bail for quite sometime, quite soon after his arrest. Also, he's been a US Citizen for over a year now (We were all so proud of him when he finally got it... the citizenship exam is pretty tough nowadays.) He's been present for some of the training sessions from time to time.

I just also wanted to let everyone know about our school and how it's affected us. We're spread out in a number of little training locations throughout the NYC and Long Island areas, yet we're all a rather tight knit group. Like many other kung fu groups, we're like family, and treat each other accordingly, with great camaraderie. This has shaken our school, and we've lost a sizeable number of students (understandably so, given the nature of the charges). The students that remain still support Gao, (whose been also understandably depressed and saddened by the whole thing), whether innocent or guilty. I've been to China with him, I've met his family, and am good friends with his daughter. Good people, all of them, and it'd been the toughest on them.

Innocent till proven guilty. And, I guess, let the chips fall where they may.

Thank you for reading and listening. As always, train hard, and train well.

Ken



knew there was a twist to this thing.

found out that Xian Gao states that he was subletting the back of his studio to "Massage therapists". He was unaware of the Prostitution since it occurred after school hours.

its a shame though if its true

He is unable to get bailed out ($125,000?) due to not being a US citizen

You see what happens when a school doesn't put up a "Sun Toi or Day Ju or even to get the school blessed :D

if he's innocent hope it turns out okay for him. He's actually a very good instructor.

peace

[Wong Fei Hong]

Didnt go through the whole thread, but just wanted to add that down here prostitution isnt illegal, its the gains made from prostitution by another person, which is illegal.
Meaning you cant pimp so to speak, or have a woman work for you, but you could rent out a room to her and she could do whatever she wants make as much as she wants but you dont get any profit. This is done so that you arent forcing her to raise productivity.
Isnt the law similar in the usa ?
Ken its quite sad so many students left the school over something like this, as you said innocent until proven guilty.

[Ford Prefect]

A massage parlor was actually a front for prostitution!!! :eek: :eek:

[Gentle Warrior]

Didnt go through the whole thread, but just wanted to add that down here prostitution isnt illegal, its the gains made from prostitution by another person, which is illegal.
Meaning you cant pimp so to speak, or have a woman work for you, but you could rent out a room to her and she could do whatever she wants make as much as she wants but you dont get any profit. This is done so that you arent forcing her to raise productivity.
Isnt the law similar in the usa ?
Ken its quite sad so many students left the school over something like this, as you said innocent until proven guilty.

No, in terms of the law, it isn't similar. The USA is far more conservative than most other countries regarding prostitution. The defense regarding the subletting situation does not automatically put my Sifu off the hook. The penalties for the charges range from a Class B Misdemeanor to a Class C or B Felony, meaning anything from a small-to-medium fine to 7 years in prison.

On a cynical note, it's an election year for a number of smaller officials in the Long Island area. There's been a sort of dragnet against massage parlors throughout the area the past few months, from what I've been told. It's far easier to attack these static places and claim victory against crime than to target thieves, drug dealers, or serial killers, who'd be considerably more difficult to apprehend.

I don't begrudge the students leaving... if I was a parent or a conservative thinking person, I'd also have second thoughts initially regarding retaining membership in the academy. But Gao and his academy has been good to me, introducing me to TCMA and rekindling an interest in me in all things athletic and martial... and so I choose to stay, for now. Perhaps, when this all comes to whatever conclusion ensues, people will have a better hold on the decision to rejoin or not.

Ken

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Now, seeing as your last question is hypothetical, then let's say my hypothetical answer to it assumes that being a hooker is a career choice that is sound, profitable, safe, legal etc etc. And considering the fact that she is 18 years old, I would have to accept her decision. She may be my daughter, but I don't own her I don't own her victories or failures. She owns that decision. If it doesn't work out, I am there to help. It's perspective.


you sir do not have a daughter.

i don't disagree with your main point, but id bet 500 bucks (ok 200) that you do not have a daughter.

and a son doesnt count. a boy can turn out tricks all day long, even gay tricks, its still not the same as your little girl. maybe the gay tricks would be pretty close, but id still say your little girl becoming a ***** would be worse.

[Gentle Warrior]

Trial delayed until January.

[The Xia]

Ok, enough time should have elapsed. What are the results?

[Gentle Warrior]

The trial finally happened around the middle of this year...

Basically, Gao had his charges dismissed. Not enough evidence, or improper collection of evidence probably.

He lost quite a number of students between his arrest and his trial, but from I hear, things are slowly picking up again.

I myself have since left the school to go into Filipino martial arts, but I still keep in touch with people still within his school. I kind of miss all the forms, but my knees can't take such low stances any more.

[The Xia]

Thanks for the information Gentle Warrior. It's good to hear everything turned out ok. It's a shame students would leave him over that. It's foolish to leave a skilled sifu, that treats you well, over such matters.

[monkeyfoot]

Imo, prostitution should be legalized and regulated.

David Jameson

Im sure that the thousands of south asian / south east asian girls who have been tricked, lied to, trafficked, 'groomed' and sold into sexual slavery would have something to say about this.

Prostitution is WRONG. It makes me very sad to think that girls, some as young as 8 years old, are trapped into this business with no way out. If this isnt bad enough, most are forced by their brothel owner to pay back the money that was charged when the traffickers sold them to the brothel. It takes years to pay back this price, many never do. If you agree with this, then you agree with slavery.


Prostitution is a DARK BUSINESS. Even the 'pretty girls' who are lucky enough to spend their days as 'hotel room service' for japanese business men are trapped.
Legalising and regulating it just wouldnt work, there are too many dark areas. Child prostitution would still run riot, and the governments would ignore it due to it being a major revenue for the country (thailand is a great example of this). Theres never a shortage or people wanting preteen, innocent virgin sex......go regulate that!

Evil cannot be tamed.

kind regards
craig

[b82rez]

Ben-

You have a suprisingly negative view of something you likely know little about?

How many prostitutes do you actually know?

I know a few. And yes, some are there vis a vis desperate acts in desperate times, but there are many more layers to that onion than the surface that you speak of. I've worked in clubs, I've known quite a few girls who use the trade as a ways and means of getting finances.

There are girls in dance clubs who strip and are prostitutes on the side. they are in it for the money. the money can be outstanding. I would also say there are some in it who are mentally unstable and unable to forge a different life for themselves. Does this mean we should deny them the mechanism of survival regardless of how we may view it from or p.o.v moralistically?


So DJ...if a child is prostituted by her step-father when he/she is 10 years old, grows up mentally unstable and can only think of continuing to turn tricks for money since they were unable to educate themselves due to that instability, we should simply sit back and allow her to do so?

I do agree that there are probably a good amount of women in the industry that WANT to be in it...but that doesn't change the nature of what the industry itself represents.

There is something inherently wrong with a man thinking he can pay to OWN a woman for a certain amount of time. It amounts to a form of slavery and yet our society blames the prostitutes for causing problems instead of the johns or the pimps. Pimps torture, rape, even kill those that work for them yet our culture glorifies them and the masses eat it up.

I have been involved with Anti-Human Trafficking efforts and have gained knowledge of and seen things which make it a joke that we call ourselves civilized. Slavery in any form is not justified.

Prostitutes are victims and should be treated as such. Skills training for different jobs, detox/rehab, etc, should be provided to those who desire it. True, you can't change everyone, but if you can help even one person, the world is better off.

http://www.polarisproject.org

[GeneChing]

I have left teachers, professors and masters over ethical issues. I probably still would. Funny this one came up now. There's an article series running in our local papers: Diary of a Sex Slave. Here's part one. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/06/MNGR1LGUQ41.DTL&hw=sex+slave&sn=005&sc=219) - the fourth and final article is tomorrow.

[The Xia]

Would you really leave a good sifu over a trial which was thrown out? It shows that many people just don't know the value of good Kung Fu training. Not everywhere is like the Bay Area. A skilled sifu that treats you well isn't an easy find in many places.

[GeneChing]

I train kung fu to fight evil and delusion. If I felt my teachers were evil or deluded, there wouldn't be much point in training under them. I've hung out with Master Gao - we went drinking once - but I wouldn't say I know him that well, Nor would I judge him from what I've heard about this case. It really depends. It's all about chemistry between the student and teacher.

[omarthefish]

The anti-legalization posts on this thread so far are so whacked out and irrational, based in ignorance, generally spastic etc. that I can't be bothered to argue with them so I'll just cherry pick one of my favorite dumb posts on the topic so far to make fun of:


S

There is something inherently wrong with a man thinking he can pay to OWN a woman for a certain amount of time.


pffffft.....

Everyone knows that you don't pay to own a woman for a certain amount of time. Heck, you don't even pay for the sex. Mostly you just pay for them to leave when your done. :D

[The Xia]

I train kung fu to fight evil and delusion.
I doubt you are referring to fighting evil in the Batman sense, so what do you mean by that? Also, what do you mean by fighting delusion?

[GeneChing]

... I just can't find my Catwoman...

As for fighting delusion, that's sort of a Buddhist thing, an artifact of being a Shaolin practitioner. Nothing deflates the ego better than a good swift kick in the pants, and kung fu is always willing to provide that.

[monkeyfoot]

The anti-legalization posts on this thread so far are so whacked out and irrational, based in ignorance, generally spastic etc. that I can't be bothered to argue with them so I'll just cherry pick one of my favorite dumb posts on the topic so far to make fun of:


Please explain to me HOW my post is 'whacked out', irrational, ignorant and generally spastic? (great choice of words btw, really shows your interlect :rolleyes: )

Please re-read my post and give me your informed opinion as to what exactly is irrational and ignorant.

otherwise ill assume you're just a herb

craig

[Flying-Monkey]

This is silly. No, not all of these women are victims. Yes, some are. However, look at reality. It will be 2007 soon, and we still have prostitutes. It is not going any where. If is was legalized, pimps would have to straighten because a health inspector would visit once in a while. They would probably get pushed out of business, because no one would want to go to a dirty stank place. Because it is illegal, just about all of the brothels outside of Nevada are nasty. If a woman is being victimized, she would not be afraid to go to the police to complain.

I have never been to a prostitute and I probably never will, but I think their services both (male and female) are needed and wanted. It is just people forcing their religious ideas on people.

[monkeyfoot]

I agree not every prostitute is a victim.

I am mainly talking from a south east asian perspective, and when you examine the industry in this light, you will see how it is very different.

Prostitution comes from hardship. Usually girls from poor rural areas of north thailand, cambodia and burma. Parents sell their daughters into it, and many go willing, as they view it as a way to earn good money and provide for the family back home. The reality IS different. Others are tricked etc, given false promises of jobs in the city, only to be sold to a brothel.

Its common place, this is how the far east sex industry works. For more info read

Sex Slaves: The Trafficking of Women in Asia by Louise Brown

regards
craig

[Green Cloud]

May I be the first one to state the f-in truest of the true

Men, whether you want to realize it or not, you "pay" for sex... it just isn't always as direct as "prostitution" but "sex" has always been an economy and always will be.....

I have to dissagree with that staement, I don't pay for sex I pay for them to go away when I'm done:D

[Buddha_Fist]

...Nothing deflates the ego better than a good swift kick in the pants, and kung fu is always willing to provide that.

Gene: That one rocks! My new sig!!!!!!!!

[dougadam]

An imperfect human