I'm knew here and I wondered about...

[cranebeginner]

I just started Fujian White Crane kung Fu and I don't know much about it. So my questions are: Is it an internal style? How many other names has it got, e.g. is it also called shaolin white crane? Has anyone else learnt it? and what will help me improve when I am not at a class, e.g. books, stretches, conditioning....?

[SPJ]

go there (http://wulin.proboards31.com/)

They even have a private and invitation only white crane forum.

:)

[SPJ]

OOPs, they took the whole section private.

Just found out.

:D

[Ray Pina]

No, it is not "internal", but they might say they are.

Ancient Taoists used to seek a medicinal pill to achieve immortality. They sought means outside of themselves, cinnabar mixed with mercury, ect., to achieve this.

Another school looked to transform themselves from the inside .... regulate their breathing, nurture their chi, transform their thinking, literally carry themselves around differently, holding themselves upright from inside.

This is what INTERNAL martial arts are based on.

From a practical point of view, I don't like white crane too much. The long sweeping arm movement are not realistic. It's not so easy to avoid a punch simply by shifting in your stance and counter punching. In theory, it's fantastic, but the other guy just doesn't hold his arm out there.

It's kind of antiquated if you're looking to compare against guys who are training to fight.

If you have other goals, though, it could be for you. Go check it out and see I guess.

[bamboo_ leaf]

In my younger yrs I used Lama Hop gar a type of long arm system against many types of people. With boxer type styles it worked really well. The foot work combined with the arm movements are quite difficult to handle if you have not been exposed to it.

The basic premise of the style is that your inside the kicking range but out side their punching range. This was my experience as a teenager using it.


(It's kind of antiquated if you're looking to compare against guys who are training to fight)

mmm I think many people still practicing the style might have some different feelings on this. Your right I would not call it an internal style either although most CMA have aspects of internal training or applications with in their art. Its not the same as an art that is based on internal principal’s and training.

[Yamesk]

I've heard this debate so many times, but there are two unanswered questions that I have:

1) Why do people always ask if White Crane Kung Fu is internal? I see people ask this all the time and everyone has a differing answer (I'm guessing because of personal opinions being favored over fact.)

2) What makes White Crane Kung Fu so unique and famous?

[cranebeginner]

our co -instructor guy started white crane because he wanted to avoid getting injured, so wouldn't white crane be slightly internal

[Ray Pina]

In my opinion, there are a lot of "internalists" -- taiji and ba gua players included -- who are not internal. Just because you do a movement slow does not make it internal. As in Hung Gar, dropping into a low horse stance and revving up your arms with tension .... this also not internal. That type of tension actual hinders relaxed power.

There is internal power .... the relaxed expression of all your body componants working together, unified, to deliver a high-mass weapon (hip, shoulder, elbow, forearm, wrist, palm/fist) very quickly. The weight of the arm is enough. As soon as you tense it, you keep power inside. That's why it LOOKS powerful. The power is there in the arm to see.

Internal work is another story that helps with the above. Holding oneself upright takes a certain intention and will and work but it is also relaxed. From that upright position, there are breathing excercises that expand the cavity to increase oxygen intake. There are postures to circulate the blood more efficiently. Then there is chi.

Merry Prankster brought up a while ago that singers do this same thing, with their breath. Awesome. That is internal then. Sitting in horse with weighted rings is not. Again, it's completely against internal principles. As for other styles, how much time is spent on this? For me, this makes up a large percentage of my training. The coordination or a relaxed body.

As for the fighting effectiveness of White Crane. I don't believe it is realistic to dodge the incoming blow completely while delivering your own. Maybe if you are much better than the other guy. But I'm talking trained fighter against trained fighter. No one throws one blow. And today, folks are trained to throw a few blows and then shoot on you.

I'm not saying one of those arm criss-crossing shots can't put someone down as you side step away. Just saying percentage wise, I wouldn't want that to be my method when facing off against a highly-motivated, skilled fighter .... then again, that's why I don't train it. Maybe you can make it work for you.

[ddh]

or Ryu He Chuan that is taught by Y.C. Chiang in the S.F. bay area is most certainly internal. The breath and it's development has much to do with this type of art. There is a tremendous emphasis placed on the development of the tendons in the body. There is also a great deal of attention given to the development of fa-shing. It is very practical as a fighting art and in many ways very simple. There is a specialized horse stance training posture and single legged training posture. This type of white crane should not be confused with a shaolin based white crane. They have nothing in common.

[Buddy]

Obviously everyone knows there is a world of difference between Lama (and its sub shoots of N.Whilte Crane) and Fujian Crane. My feelings about the latter (and similar styles such as bak mei, Jook lum, mor kiu...) is they have an "internal" element, i.e. the use of short power but the problem with them is, and this is my opinion, that they are designed only for combat. Not a bad thing if you have to fight against: the govt, other gangs, etc. You might not live to see beyond the next fight so why worry about your health? These styles also seem to have to have other qigong sets to counter their martial training which can be very hard on the kidneys.