Real Kung fu in a standup street fight?

[tug]

You decide...

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/812/

[PangQuan]

old news.

my answer is no.

[SifuAbel]

Please use the search.

[SevenStar]

If the definition of kung fu is 'hard work', doesn't that mean that any effort that anyone gives in a streetfight is kung fu? ;)

[PangQuan]

If the definition of kung fu is 'hard work', doesn't that mean that any effort that anyone gives in a streetfight is kung fu? ;)

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!

out of context
- 45 street cred

[Invisible-fist]

If the definition of kung fu is 'hard work', doesn't that mean that any effort that anyone gives in a streetfight is kung fu? ;)

No.

The words mean different things in Chinese and English.

[SevenStar]

the winking smiley at the end indicates a joke...

[SifuAbel]

Alas our smiley fu is weak.

[Anthony]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenStar
If the definition of kung fu is 'hard work', doesn't that mean that any effort that anyone gives in a streetfight is kung fu?



"No.

The words mean different things in Chinese and English."

Not from the books I've read, but okay.....what is the difference between the Chinese and English definition or the word "Kung-fu."

[PangQuan]

i think hes indicating how the average english speaking population sees kung fu as chinese martial arts.

and how the literal definition in chinese is not that.


but again totally out of context so...

-345 street cred

[SevenStar]

Alas our smiley fu is weak.


:p :p


How's that for smiley fu?

[PangQuan]

:p :p


How's that for smiley fu?


+83 street cred

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i think i've seen that guy giving homeless people hand jobs in the park.

[SimonM]

Dude! That was like... totally weak!

[Subitai]

I disagree on weakness, I've used my kung fu in street fights to knock out a few dudes and it probably looked similar.

This vid has been discussed on a few diff. boards.

Most people saying that it's not kung fu because of various reasons.

Mostly the:
Stance preparation and it didn't look like when people do forms or kung fu movies.

Which are both big Peeves of mine. (Movies are fantasy!)

I had said this previously,

Posted: June 24 2005,2:07

As funny as the whole stance preparation is,

For the life of me, I hate when people associate kung fu from tv to real life. What I mean by this is...people thinking that real life use of kung fu (meaning hard work) should look like a movie.

I think the kid did pretty good. It was totally obvious what he was setting up on the homie kid. If he was Tae Kwon Do, it could have been a RidgeHand strike, although impact was the arm.

If it was kung fu...such as Hung Ga or Choy Li Fut, it looked most certainly like a basic inner forearm strike or a Sow Choy that just connected with his arm. This is a basic move.

If you delete everying else in the video and just watch the last 8 seconds. You'll realize that the Martial arts guy attempted the throw and set up the "SAID MOVE" 2 times before connecting on it on the 3rd time.

**That was the real fight, the last 8 seconds and it wasn't sloppy at all.

In anycase, it was clear, that he was intending to use this method and he clearly set the kid up for it.

But the whole stance thing was really not needed, too funny.

"O"

P.S.

Why is it that boxers get 12 rounds to set up an opponant and nobody calls them sloppy?

But a Martial arts guy (input ANY style here) can win in a fraction of the time and he looks no good.

It isn't a fair comparison. I repeat, last 8 seconds.

[SifuAbel]

Hey "O",

How ya doin'? :D

The differnece in what he did and what you would do is simple. Your fight would ONLY contain the last 8 seconds. You wouldn't be doing all the weird stepping and hyperbole. Apart from the actual hit, which was just "OK", all the guy's prior antics made a joke of what he does.

[Ou Ji]

While it's true that he did attempt the same finishing strike twice before in the fight it still kinda looks to me like a lucky shot. Maybe he's just limited in what he knows.

If it doesn't work the first 2 times maybe try something else? I think it worked for him because the other guy didn't know crap about fighting.

BTW, I commented on this fight once before and thought it looked more like Karate but looking at it again he fights with his strong side forward which I don't think is typical of Karate fighters.

[Matrix]

Why is it that boxers get 12 rounds to set up an opponant and nobody calls them sloppy?
Because boxing is a sport and you can win on points.

[Subitai]

Long time SifuAbel,

I hear you and agree with you, as I said, the whole stance thing wasn't needed.

But curious enough, "That's real life"....More often then not, fights are always Pre-cursored with stupid banter and yelling.

****
Ou Ji,

Ok, Good point it could be any style... I alluded to that as well.

But about repeating a move. Is there anything wrong with that? I don't think so. If I only know 1 " bread and butter move", I'll keep using it untill either he stops it or it works. Isn't that the most simple and effective thing?

Of course it depends on a persons skill level.


****
Matrix,

I know boxing is a sport, I hear that too. But you kinda gotta give me some slack here.

Given the same situation, if a kung fu guy was to fight sport (Ahhem, we know what happens to most of them) People would be looking for him to look like Quai Chang Kaine or Jet Li ect ect. Kung fu guy for some reason has to win immediately and look VERY GOOD doing it or ELSE!
It would be "all but sloppy" to most people who have these unrealistic ideals about kung fu.

(mostly because of what they have learnt from movies or have visualized in thier heads)

Dude you have to at least consider agreeing with that.

So given that point of view, what I mean is...people put TOO much pressure on Kung fu guys to "FIGHT" exactly like how their forms are. Which is silly.

Outsiders to Kung fu or those that are misinformed have the wrong impression of Forms. And rightly so, with so many schmucks out there screwing up by doing forms only and believing that they can actually fight EXACTLY LIKE THE FORMS.

I don't want to go into the pros and cons about forms or what they are actually for. As that has been a topic many times on this board.

But I think it does relate to my point.

"O"

[SevenStar]

So given that point of view, what I mean is...people put TOO much pressure on Kung fu guys to "FIGHT" exactly like how their forms are. Which is silly.

Does the outside world put that pressure on them, or do they put that pressure on themselves?



Outsiders to Kung fu or those that are misinformed have the wrong impression of Forms. And rightly so, with so many schmucks out there screwing up by doing forms only and believing that they can actually fight EXACTLY LIKE THE FORMS.

because of the above. People think they should fight exactly like they perform in the forms. If it doesn't look that way, then they aren't doing kung fu, according to them.

[SimonM]

Actually what rankled for me was the pointless showy stance work that most of the video portrayed. It suggested someone who HAD formed their opinion of Gong Fu off of Tsui Hark movies rather than actual practice. I could almost imagine them shouting "invulnerable chicken hop stance" as they showed off before throwing a punch.

[Subitai]

Does the outside world put that pressure on them, or do they put that pressure on themselves?


I would say a little of both. (probably the only people not guilty of this are serious exponants of the arts...they should know better)

A similar parallel is when I run into meatheads that believe the "Only valid martial arts" are the ones who do Submissions.

Which once again to me is silly. If my main goal is self defense, and I can stop you from hurting me, then I've done my job.

I run into people occasionally that actually have the impression that I must be able to chase a guy down and force him to submit to me. "Or else what I do isn't valid". I love to prove these people wrong.

My only disclaimer is...what I do doesn't have to look like a movie. haha

If my methods are working and my energies are used correctly, who can say i'm wrong?
"O"

[PangQuan]

The fact that at the beginning he was constantly looking to his friends while "performing" his stance work, instead of keeping attention on his enemy, shows he was not using the foot and stance work with a martial ideal in mind. It was pure show.

If you ask me, that homie kid was asking for a side kick to the mid section. Who wants a ko when you can make someone double over and puke themselves...

[Willow Palm]

Those two were fighting for one reason and one reason alone, showing off! One wanted to be pretty and the other wanted to be a hard knock. I'm sure the kid had some training, not much, and wanted to give it a go. Good for him, but doesn't that make him a trouble maker? Whatever happened to learning to unlearn and avoiding unnessasary conflict when able?

Why is there always a camera conviently on site,
Warren

[PangQuan]

That was most obviously an organized youth brawl. Someone ran home during lunch time to grab dads camcorder for the after school fight at the playground.

[SimonM]

The one I want to know about was the one on the XYQ website where the kid gets jumped outside the taco bell. That looked like some guys went looking for him to beat the **** out of him and videotape it. A bit disconcerting.

[SifuAbel]

Link??? :D :cool:

[Matrix]

Dude you have to at least consider agreeing with that.

So given that point of view, what I mean is...people put TOO much pressure on Kung fu guys to "FIGHT" exactly like how their forms are. Which is silly.
"O",
Yes, given the same situation, I do agree with you.
You are right, a Kung Fu guy or a <insert name of martial art here> guy is expected to finish it quickly when in fact it may not be in his advantage to rush in. Just like a boxer, you might want to pick your spot.
I have no problem with that. I would just say that you need to play your own game and not worry about what others expect.

[Sifu Darkfist]

your fist is connected to your arm that is truly part of your body how can you not undestand the implications of your own strike? Take your hardest strike and place it to your underdeveloped cranium and then write back. If your strike is developed as your master intended we will read of your quest to overcome brain damage (not knowing what you really want to say) but we will know that you found the truth. I have received true punches to the body from my master and have actually gotten up 12 feet away from him. i have delivered much the same same on my perspective disciple ( upon his request). The hit was right but is he prepared to do 13 hits of the same?
xuan quan

[SimonM]

Link??? :D :cool:

Oh yeah.... Sorry. One sec....

Let's see if this works... (http://media.skoopy.com/vids/vid_00091.wmv)

As I said, not at all funny. However the blokes down at skoopy videos seem to think it is. What I saw though was a couple of *******es ambushing a lone kid in a parking lot and then videotaping the beat-down (not a fight, fights have two sides) to show their friends how badass they are. Not impressed.

[PangQuan]

ya simon i agree. very facking weak.

it shows how little skill the "winner" has, simply due to the fact that he had his opponent in a very vulnerable position, and could not execute a finish.

seeing things like that always make me feel a tinge of anger.

[SimonM]

ya simon i agree. very facking weak.

it shows how little skill the "winner" has, simply due to the fact that he had his opponent in a very vulnerable position, and could not execute a finish.

seeing things like that always make me feel a tinge of anger.

Yeah. I don't like unfair fights. The really disturbing thing is that these guys seemed proud of their "accomplishment".

[Taatelipalmu]

Back to the original topic:
I second that the guy was probably someone who'd practiced a martial art for a short time and that the stuff in the beginningh was purely to show off. But I think I heard him say "anything goes" which I remember to be the translation of Vale Tudo(correct me here). But I have never seen it done and don't know what it looks like.
And about that last vid. That was downright WRONG. The guy had to struggle the whole time through so as not to let his attacker score a kick (I think, he was holding his legs back) and that other guy.. "go get him mike!" just made me sick.
(I don't thik he was trying to take him down, that would have been pretty hopeless. but I am not the brightest crayon in the box.)

[tug]

Thank you guys, that's what I was hoping for - an educated discussion.

But couldn't his "tactic" at the beginning be "intimidation". He was surrounded by many people, possible opponents, and had to fall back on what he was taught.

Or, Taatelipalmu said that it looked like he studied for a short while, well, if that was the case, could it not be that he had not much experience in street fighting and was simply reacting without realizing how foolish he looked?

Honestly, I am not trying to load the guy up with street cred, and apparently, I am behind on my internet-fu, just wanted to hear what everyone else thought.

Many thanks,

Tug.

[Faruq]

I'd still like to see a Toi San or Guangzhou master in a street fight, as long as I wasn't the opponent.

[Yum Cha]

Yawn, that old chestnut again?

I think you can pretty well assume he studied Dutch Kung Fu, and used the famous Windmill attack.

Posturing and blustering are probably the most basic of strategies to try to psych out your opponent, and ****ed if it didn't work, eh, had the guy tying shoes, tucking in his shirt, stalling on all fronts.

He dropped the guy with a misguided/lucky strike to the back of the ear/side of the neck. He had size and power, and maybe a bit of training? There's not much to be learned here, nor admired, except perhaps that he didn't put the boot in when the little guy went down...

He did long arm swinging punches, yet his stances didn't look much like any Pak Hok, Lama or CLF I've ever seen. Stances looked like Hung Kuen or Northern Mantis.

Ok, so Hung has some swinging arms. Any of you Hung Kuen people want to take credit for him? :D

[SilverNeedle]

I'd rather use my Kung Fu as a training of my body and mind, to improve my health and learn some cool moves than you (plus many other reasons...). Maybe if there is absolutley no way out, I can consider fighting, but I don't think so :)

If you want self defence go and train with the cops!! lol

[tug]

:eek: I can't believe someone resurrected this thread.

[Faruq]

No matter what people say about the lack of traditional gong fu in UFC and Pride, you can't tell me CLC and the other Tigers wouldn't have kicked butt.

[WinterPalm]

I'd rather use my Kung Fu as a training of my body and mind, to improve my health and learn some cool moves than you (plus many other reasons...). Maybe if there is absolutley no way out, I can consider fighting, but I don't think so :)

If you want self defence go and train with the cops!! lol

Self-defense is a crucial, if not the most crucial component of kung fu training. Health, and mental improvement are very important as well and should be included in your training. Have you seen what police are training? It is usually not that great and more often they have to pursue training on their own time compared to what the Academy makes them go through. A friend of mine recently complete his Law Enforcement training and the combat stuff was very minimal, I think six hours a day for two weeks, and lacked in many areas in terms of what police can expect to encounter.

IF you want self-defence find someone that teaches self-defense regardless of style...but if your kung fu is lacking it then I would say that it is not kung fu.

[SifuAbel]

These threads are like zombies, you just can't kill them.

[charyuop]

I think that the guy taught me something. Having no experience at all in street fighting if one day (hopefully never ever) I happen to end up in one I will do the same thing. The opponent will laugh at me so much that he might take the fight as easy victory and not give 100% in the fight. Or he might just think I am an idiot and have a good laughter and walk away.

[MOVES]

Thats were the martial arts hype kicks in ,when u bust some stance twirl ya hands in the air.Its all down to the image , movies , rep , it does work it doesnt .The thug has hunderd questions about it and no anserws puts major doubt in his head . Im glad that guy placed a smack on his head it doesnt matter if looked wrong with the stance and all because thats why he won he made the thug doubt himself with that stance MENTAL COMBAT .;)

[unkokusai]

No matter what people say about the lack of traditional gong fu in UFC and Pride, you can't tell me CLC and the other Tigers wouldn't have kicked butt.



You can't?:confused:

[tug]

These threads are like zombies, you just can't kill them.

Werd.

TuG