HSK story flaws

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
1)Quote: "Word of his former disciples success got back to Chan Heung in Ging Mui. He was very proud and impressed with Jeong Yim’s acheivements and showed him the utmost respect for him by treating him like an equal."

Who said? YOU? Were you there? Or is this more "by word of mouth" myth?

2)TQuote: "Yogether they studied the new techniques and Jeong Yim was at work redefining the Chan Heungs system by adding the "Fut" in Choy Lee Fut."

ARE YOU SAYING "REDEFINING" CHAN HEUNG'S CLF BY ADDING THE "FUT"? ARE YOU SAYING CHAN HEUNG KNEW JEONG YIM WOULD COME BACK WITH THE FUT COMPONENT WHEN HE COINED THE NAME "CHOY LEE FUT"?

WHAT ABOUT CHAN HEUNG'S OTHER STUDENTS WHO WERE SENIOR TO JEONG YIM? ARE YOU SAYING CHAN HEUNG TAUGHT THE CHOY LEE FUT TO HIS SENIIOR STUDENTS WITHOUT THE "FUT" COMPONENT BECAUSE IT HAS NOT YET COME WITH JEONG YIM?

3) QUOTE: "Jeong Hung Sing became known as the true founder of Choy Lee Fut Upon returning to Fut San Jeong Hung Sing started to develop his gung fu separately from that of Chan Heung based on his personal needs, as well as his students too"

THERE YOU GO AGAIN......ANOTHER WILD CLAIM "BECAME KNOWN AS THE TRUE FOUNDER OF CLF....."

KNOWN BY WHO? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? REMEMBER YOU SAID FOR "FIRST FEW GENERATIONS" OF JEONG YIM HUNG SING SCHOOL IT IS UNCERTAIN EVEN IF THE KUNG FU TAUGHT WAS KNOWN AS OR CALLED CHOY LEE FUT.

THEN HOW CAN JEONG YIM HAVE "FOUNDED" CHOY LEE FUT"

HOW COULD HE "BECAME KNOWN AS TRUE FOUNDER" OF CLF IF HIS SCHOOL AND SOME SUBSEQUENT GENERATIONS OF HIS LINEAGE TAUGHT SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT KNOWN AS CHOY LEE FUT?

HAVE YOU CHANGED YOUR CLAIM FROM "CO-FOUNDER" TO "FOUNDER" NOW?
WHY"

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
If you say Chan Heung and Jeong Yim developed separately their CLF then how can Jeong Yim be co-founder or founder? Clf was established around 1836 by Chan Heung ...... ( and how old was Jeong when he met chan and BEGAN TO TRAIN?) If according to your story Jeong started training with chan at 12 yrs of age, and your futsan group claim jeong born around 1824, (you and your group agree?) then jeong was 12 yrs old around 1836 HINT: 1836

If you say Chan Heung and Jeong Yim developed together CLF then why your branch have NO noi nim shou Or are you saying you do have it? Do you know what is noi nim sou? Wait......you already told us you don't know what is noi nim sou ...didn't you ?

[Ou Ji]

Ok, I really don't care about the history and lineage. I only know a little bit of CLF but I have been skimming through these posts and I just have to ask What is this noi nim sou or whatever (I've seen a few variations of this name)?

Anyone care to educate the ones that aren't 'in the know'? I get the impression it's something secret.

[hskwarrior]

kenny fist,

there are answers to your questions, but all i have to say to you is ......


bite me![COLOR=Red] :eek: :D

[Kennyfist]

Maybe I should kick your elephant into the zoo..... :D :D

[Sow Choy]

OK,

Triumph the insult comic dog has asked to post here again...

Triumph:
Ok, CLF Trivia everybody... Question... Who is the founder of CLF?

HSK: Jeung Yim Kennyfist: Chan Heung

Triumph:

No I am sorry, you both are wrong... The real answer is: Who gives a sheet!!!

I kid I kid!!!

Back to Joe...

Kennyfist,

Sorry just joking again...

Because honestly... Your posts are too long and you are repeating yourself over and over again... You seem very concerned over CLF history, I believe you are a CLF person covering your identity to toy with Frank...

It's getting old, and none of us really care about the history that much, no one can really prove anything once and for all... I know many people from all sides of CLF, and they dont care too much about that, we just respect them all for passing on their art...

Each sifu is definitely a creator of a system of handing down the tool of CLF, we have seen some good players, and some really bad ones too... That is not the style's fault, but perhaps the players and maybe the teachers...

So can you please stop this now??? Take it up with Frank through PM's, obviously you like to provoke him so expect the worse.... You will bring it on yourself...

Frank is very proud of his lineage, thats fine... But do the rest of a favor and add to some positive posts...

Thank you

Joe

[Ou Ji]

Sow Choy
Can I call you Joe? So, Sow Chow :) you get a A+ for effort but this kind of stuff will always go on and on and on. Not just here with CLF but Wing Chun, Northern Mantis, Shaolin, you name it. There's at least a few in every camp that just won't let any of it go. There are even fewer unbiased serious researchers.

And then you have the childish fun of pushing someone's buttons or name calling.

Seriously, imagine how thinned out the forums would be without the useless arguing.

And the REAL founder of CLF is ........






























Sum Auld Gai

And that's a fact!

[Sow Choy]

Oui Ji,

Very true...

You can call me Joe

I agree it makes it fun here, but Kennyfist is goin on and on... Its getting old...

So I think Comedy could help and help peeps to simmer down... We all know people really do watch this forum, and i just hope people take more care in what they say...

We can make points and debate, but lets have some respect too... If you give respect you can make your points easier and people will take them into consideration more...

I have told that to HSK many times... But he will admit a mistake, but lets not drag stuff on... Meaning toards Kennyfist...

Joe

[CLFNole]

Three words: OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE DISORDER

Stop beating the dead horse already, hasn't it suffered enough. You made your point already.

Now lets move on and discuss whose CLF 3/4 staff form was better Chan Hueng, Jeurng Yim or Sisuk XJ :D

[Ou Ji]

I'm with ya there Sow Choy. (I know you but since you don't know who I am I'll stick with Sow Choy)

It's well past worn thin. Some just take a little longer to learn. When the threads start getting silly is a good sign it's time to back off.

HSK is trying to rush out of the gate before assessing the playing field IMO. And kennyfist subscribes to the unending barrage of attacks as the only way of winning.

I don't believe either are using the appropriate strategy here so ultimately they both end up looking bad.

Got a question for you. What's the Chinese name for Cross Hands? I keep forgetting that one.

Frank, you got a Cross Hands set in your branch?

[CLFNole]

Ou Ji

"kennyfist subscribes to the unending barrage of attacks as the only way of winning."

From this it sounds like he might be a CLF guy afterall. ;)

By the way I think you are referring to "gum chien" - golden scissors.

[Sow Choy]

Oui Ji,

Describe what you mean by cross hands... Do you mean cross pattern?

And... Who are you? ha ha ha, Shoot me a pm if you dont wanna list your info to the public...

Always like make new friends...

Joe

[Shaolindynasty]

Did you see the one where triumph goes to the star wars line and asks the guy dressed like darth vader which one of the buttons on his chest calls his mom to pick him up?

Bwahahahahah :D

[Sow Choy]

ShaolinDynasty

I loved that one... Thats where I got that line above from...

I like the Bon Jovi one too, as well as the Quebec and Dog Shows...

I loike his best of DVD, its great.... For me to poop on...

Joe

[Kennyfist]

Sow Choy,

Quote: "The real answer is: Who gives a sheet!!!"

It seems that Hsk is very concerned about telling "his story".....and he does give out a lot of ........"turd"......ORALLY.

BTW SOW CHOY, YOU MIGHT NEED TO WATCH THAT "POOP HERE " AND "POOP THERE"........YOU KNOW OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T WANT TO BE TREATED LIKE AN ANIMAL... THEN PROBABLY BEST NOT TO BEHAVE LIKE ONE........REMEMBER CERTAIN ANIMALS CAN BE TRAINED TO NOT "POOP JUST ANYWHERE THEY WANT"..... YOU PROBABLY (?) WAS "TALKING" IN JOKING TONE......TAKE THIS COMMENT IN "JOKING-LIKE TONE"....... BACK TO TALKING ABOUT "TRAINING"? :D :D

[Kennyfist]

Nole,
What's the story with this sudden (?) "sisuk this " and "sisuk that".......I wonder if someone is feeling "insecure" about his branch......and would like to find comfort in getting some sort of "support" that "after all, we don't need that.....even if we don't have it....we can still achieve this...." :D :D

[CLFNole]

It's called being polite to an elder and XJ and I have been talking online for quite awhile. If you teach I hope you convey these basic things to your students. My lineage is primarily from the Chan Family (if not all) so XJ and I are from the same lineage more or less. Since I consider CLF one family, we are all from the same lineage. When someone good knowledge of CLF they deserve respect. XJ makes good point without having to post 40 times in a row. :D You could have too but I think you enjoy typing, maybe you were a secretary in another life.

You obviously have a good deal of knowledge and we think you are a CLF guy but you never say. Let Frank believe whatever he wants, none of us have to believe it so why do you obsess so much over it. This is just a freaking online website its not the endall. Give it a rest already, we'd all like to move on a just discuss CLF.

As far as being insecure about my lineage, thats amusing. I love my lineage and my sifu and wouldn't trade it for anything. CLF is CLF, I was taught if your chop choy is powerful, show me. I don't need to hear about you moving your chi here and there, just show me. Too many people try to make everything so "magical and mysterious". A fist is a fist and kick is a kick. You can spit and swallow all you want. :eek:

[hskwarrior]

so funney, so verie funny.

nole, so who is your teacher, i know whose joe's is, but not yours.

so funny, i love that, no wait, i don't nothing for kenny. hahahahahaha. sucker.

[Kennyfist]

Nole,
Your right that a fist is a fist and a kick is a kick.
You can use your fist and do a kick without training any kung fu style.

The details are in the hows and whys, refinement......as Joseph puts it nicely....."its not about winning ......but winning with minimal effort....."

[hskwarrior]

you're so full of bs

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
I wonder who sounds like their telling cow manure type story as "history" ?

[hskwarrior]

i haven't answered your questions yet there buddy. all these people think you are clf. i say you're fake.

now, what you don't realize is that your hero and mentor joseph has admitted there could be a possibility that chan yiu chi perhaps could have written a biased version, in their favor.

you obviously don't know hung sing history. but if you wanted to there are all types of schools of jeong yims lineage that tell of our history. all you have to do is a search.

now, all you have is a possibly biased account of the history, written by the grand son, and not by the actual founder of the system. even according to the transation of the chan family records that there were too many controversial dates and such.

Remember something, chan heungs history is "HIS" history. Jeong Yim had one as well. Jeong Yim passed on his history to the likes of Li Yan, Yuen Hai, Chan Ngau Sing, Wong Say, Lui chun many other masters. in turn, these students of jeong yim passed on their historical knoweldge of their branch to the likes of Lau Bun, Kwan Mun Keng, and so on. Lau Bun being that he brought choy lee fut to america, he passed on our history down to Jew Leong all the way down to me.

if this history can be passed down and has never changed much through out the years, and then come to learn that hung sing kwoons who have never met in their lives, all possess the very same version of the fut san hung sing kwoons history, how can our history be wrong?

who is the chan family to say that the history of jeong yim is wrong? it our history! and because he was his sifu sheet is played out. Remember, even joseph said that jeong yim was one of the most notable students to ever come from chan heung. it is well known that in southern china jeong yims hung sing kwoon was the biggest and most popular.

Jeong Yim was a living legend in his time. he never lost to a challenger. even other styles from fut san mention him as one of southern chinas greates fighters.
if you knew our history you would know that jeong yim was heavily involved with teaching revolutionaries.

now here is a version of jeong yims history coming from the chan family. i got this from past communications with someone from the chan family. i emailed him and asked what he knew about jeong yim, and the green grass monk. now, this is what he told me.............jeong yim was known to be teaching clf to a bunch of real tough guys, gangsters if you will. He was using the "hung victory" Hung Sing, and because it sounded so close to that of the hung mun, jeong yim had to change his name to take the focus off of his school.

So he contacted chan heung who told him to use the hung sing (Glorious Victory) as a cover up. ..............and that comes from mr howard C. from the australia chan family group.

now at the same time, early 1990''s, he declared to me that nowhere in the chan family records is there any mention of the green grass monk. he just didn't exist.
it seems kinda strange that since the last little historical battle back in the days with me against joseph, shortly after that the chan family reports that they finally discovered choy fook was the green grass monk.

what i want to know is how did that name jus pop up out of nowhere. it makes me think the chan family is at it again, and re-recording history with a biased twist again. now with the green grass monk as choy fook. first the tiger was killed by chan heung, and the skin was lost, and then the green grass monk doesn't exist but then he does. :confused:

try researching the hung sing history before shooting it down. you may learn a thing or two. like i said, there are two things i have proven wrong about the hung sing history, such as jeong yim didn't die at 33 yrs old, and that chan ngau sing was definetly not jeong yims first student, nor was he close to the first. according to the fut san hsk, it was yuen hai that jeong yim sent to recruit chan ngau sing who was learning hung gar from chow gum biu.

try researching our history. you might find it interesting. there is more than words you need to understand before you study our history.

peace.

oh, kenny, you wont be answered, so save some space and don't go "post crazy" on us.

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
"proven" this and that.....HOW?

QUOTE FROM YOUR "DEBATE" THREAD :"#6:

both loong gee choy and jeong yim have been in king mui, kong mun, singapore, hong kong, and a few othe places that slip my mind right now.

according to the chan clan Jeong yim and loong gee choy both took care of chan koon pak but it is also said believed that both of them taught clf to chan koon pak.
but if you were clf then you would know that.

it sounds like they are the same to me."

Is that the WHOLE AND FULL EXTENT OF YOUR "RESEARCH" for your long ji choy = jeong yim claim? What kind of "research" and what kind of "proof" is that?

Quote: "according to the fut san hsk, it was yuen hai that jeong yim sent to recruit chan ngau sing who was learning hung gar from chow gum biu."

What about " according to singapore hsk Jeong died young and was ambushed..."?

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
Quote : "if this history can be passed down and has never changed much through out the years, and then come to learn that hung sing kwoons who have never met in their lives, all possess the very same version of the fut san hung sing kwoons history, how can our history be wrong?"Didn't I point out to you where your story seemed to "change" and "disagreement" between you and your futsan group?

Futsan says Jeong born around 1824 which means 12 around 1836....
YOU say jeong was 12 in 1826.....
"Disagreement" isn't it? Do you agree?

And you later put an extra "margin of error" to your date didn't you?

Story didn't change? Jeong died young and was ambushed...now he didn't?

[hskwarrior]

Here kennyfist,

answer these if you think you have them.

1) where did the chan family get chan heungs image?
2) where is that **** tiger skin from the tiger he killed with his bare hands in his old age?
3) what year did choy fook die? he died at 112 yrs old, but when? what, chan heung never mentioned the year that his sifu passed away?

4) what do you have to say about howard choy's responces to my past emails to him and the history of jeong yim as he told me.

5) why does the chan family's green grass monk exist and jeong yims not?

6) when was loong gee choy born? where did he come from?

7) if jeong yim is on the chan heung family tree, what happened to loong gee choy? where did he go? i've only seen chan heungs sons and jeong yim on the chan family tree.

8) i say jeong yim is possibly loong gee choy because of them both being the only outsiders according to both branches, no real info on loong gee choy, how old he was, where he was from, any photo's. i mean if chan heung got an image of him , and so did his sons, why didn't loong gee choy have one?

9) how do we even know loong gee choy existed? how, because chan yiu chi said he did. you know the guy who possibly could have written the biased version of our history.

10) how could the chan clan prove that loong gee choy and jeong yim are not one and the same. if you go by "well chan yiu chi said so" then look a little deeper. Jeong yim was said to have the goverment after him for not joining the military and needed to hide. Now what happens to criminals all over the world when the cops are after them, they change their name and identity to try and fool the cops.

the one thing both chan and hung sing agree on, is jeong yim came into the picture when he was 12 yrs old. now if you tried to study any information on people like Dr Sun Yat Sen, you would know that he himself had plenty of alias', as did chan ngau sing who was known as chan mou sing and chan gei sing.

to say that it is completely impossible to have your name changed to hide your identity whether it be in the 1800's or the 2000's, is rediculous. very much so, and shows none of you have done enough research. all of you including joseph discount the fact that in the 1800-1949 the southern chinese lived through revolutionary turmoil their whole lives, and have been programmed for secrecy.

most of you guys haven't studied the qing dynasty. why do you think choy lee fut was developed to fight the qing military and other bandits and such if the times were so peaceful, no need for privacy, or secrecy. the times were messed up then!!! even on suspicion, the qing soldiers were ordered to kill and eliminate any and all supporters of the anti government movement whether involved or not.

11) chan heung going to singapore and establishing a clf school there is most likely false, because the singapore hung sing kwoon is the first and only recognized choy lee fut school at the time of their establishmentt. no singapore records of any other clf school there. already been checked out through the government.

now we can either agree that each branch has a version of the history that deserves to be heard, and let the reader be the judge, or we can fight this. but the more you ask questions, i feel i am doing the research for you, and im not your teacher, nor your flunky. so do some research and go outside the box and study what the times were like in china then, then try to put the pieces together.

as most have said, history has nothing to do with today. and with that, i now end my side of this stupid historical battle. but suffice it to say, the story from our branch will remain the same.

peace.

[hskwarrior]

oh and kenny,

the singapore hung sing kwoon was wrong, not me. I helped to prove that wasn't correct.

its not my fault that no one thought to check the birthdate of chan sing and when jeong yim taught him.

now, directly through the bloodline of chan ngau sing we know that he was born in 1864 and was recruited by yuen hai in 1883, 10 years after that jeong yim died.

what is so hard to believe now, that jeong yim didn't die around 1850?

now just because the grandson, not the son, but the grandson possibly wrote a biased version to make his grandfather look even better. and when someone is biased he chooses to leave certain things out, or change something in his favor.

The hung sing kwoon in fut san was heavily involved and was a hot bed for revolutionaries. Now when you have a populace of people who support whole heartedly support the revolution, secrecy is completely understood. any discovery of documents, or even pamphlets about the revolution, or even just thought that you were involved meant instant death. INSTANTLY!

with that in mind, possessing any written historical information which may connect someone with the anti-gov groups was taboo. so they were forced to pass on an oral history throughout the generations, from chan sing to his children, from them to their children and so on.

so our version is equally important as the chan family written or not, our history has been passed down through the following generations.

i will admit this, even under GM salvatera, the history was orally passed down, and for the whole time i have been practicing clf i had never even thought of writing it down, because i enjoy telling people our history instead of letting them read it.

Just like the late GM lee koon hung, his younger brother Lee Siu Hung knows much of his olders brothers past. and now that he's gone, if Lee Siu Hung never writes it down, then the only way people will hear of Lee Koon Hungs experiences will only be word of mouth.

so history, passed down by word of mouth, if its not written down, then thats the only way it can be passed down, is not such a bad thing.

but most of you are not willing to see it from both sides and only fight from one side of the battle field. i personally have taken a neutral position on the field and go from there. if i teeter over to one side its because i think that side makes more sense.

im done.

peace.

[hskwarrior]

kenny,

your argument about 12 and 1836, and my 12 and 1826, i can easily fix that.


i guess you haven't paid attention so i will say it again.

now, within the fut san hsk i have seen it written that chan heung was actually born in 1815 and not 1805. the rumor was that chan yiu chi wanted to make chan heung much older than jeong yim.

If chan yiu could have possibly written a biased history, it is possible that he changed chan heungs birthdate. but before all of you get out of your seats, ask yourself, have you seen chan heungs actual birth records? so how can you dispute it? just listen to what im saying or take it with a grain of salt. But i have not seen them, so i am in neutral on this.

i have actually seen a few chan related websites that also have his birthdate after 1805. so i am iffy on the true birth date. until i could see chan heungs actual birth records which would be solid proof of the truth we could put that to an end.

and the government can provide the actual birth records of chan heung and he was truly born in 1805, i will make the fut san hsk aware that the 1815 birthdate as untrue.

if my history can be proven completely beyond the shadow of a doubt, i will gladly correct all my info. but i am not convinced i am wrong at all.

remember, in the bible its said there should only be one version of it. period. but man changed it around. even took out books to make it look better. but stll, there are different versions of it.

Chan yiu chi was human too. it is quite possible he altered their history since he wrote it. it was up to him to leave out what was orally handed down to him. remeber that. how did chan yiu chi get information on his grandfather, word of mouth. then he wrote it down.

peace.

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
How do we know futsan didn't change dates and make things up?

What about possible agenda of income from tourist attraction?

Have you answered about "is that the whole and full extent of your "research" for your long ji choy = jeong yim claim" ?

What about how you take some info from "chan sources" and reject others....then use this info in your "argument" on your website? (Remember YOU told us where you got the info about Choy fook's scarred head?)

Do you take bits and pieces from other people's sources at your own liberty and mould them into your own little model? What is your criteria for using and rejecting things from other sources?

Oh, you can easily "fix" the thing about 12 and 1836? WHO IS CHANGING STORY? DOES THAT SOUND CONVENIENT TO THOSE WHO DON'T BUY YOUR STORY?

WHAT KIND OF REASONING OR EVIDENCE IS THIS : "OH IT IS POSSIBLE CHAN BIASED.....OH RUMOUR THAT CHAN DID THIS......." WHAT ABOUT POSSIBILITY OF FUTSAN BIAS? HOW DO WE KNOW THEY DIDN'T MAKE THINGS UP?
YOU ATTACK CHAN YIU CHI SOURCE? WHY SHOULD ANYNONE NOT LISTEN TO THE GRANDSON ABOUT HIS GRANDFATHER....YET LISTEN TO ANOTHER GROUP....YOUR FUTSAN GROUP.....?

NOW WHEN WAS CHAN YIU CHI MANUSCRIPT WRITTEN? WHEN WAS FUTSAN "RECORDS" WRITTEN? WHEN WAS GGM CONTROVERSEY STARTED?

IF FUTSAN WRITES "RECORDS" NOW THAT GGM WAS WONG FEI HUNG.....ARE YOU GOING TO US IT?

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
Quote: "7) if jeong yim is on the chan heung family tree, what happened to loong gee choy? where did he go? i've only seen chan heungs sons and jeong yim on the chan family tree.

9) how do we even know loong gee choy existed? how, because chan yiu chi said he did. you know the guy who possibly could have written the biased version of our history"

YOU MIGHT NEED TO DIG A BIT DEEPER OUTSIDE OF YOUR FUTSAN GROUP WHENYOU DO YOUR "RESEARCH".
Quote: "8) i say jeong yim is possibly loong gee choy because of them both being the only outsiders according to both branches, no real info on loong gee choy, how old he was, where he was from, any photo's. i mean if chan heung got an image of him , and so did his sons, why didn't loong gee choy have one? "

Photo? What era?.... Where is Jeong yim photo or picture? Why?
Does no picture = does not exist?
Quote: "Just like the late GM lee koon hung, his younger brother Lee Siu Hung knows much of his olders brothers past. and now that he's gone, if Lee Siu Hung never writes it down, then the only way people will hear of Lee Koon Hungs experiences will only be word of mouth."

THEN WHY DO YOU ASK WHY SHOULD PEOPLE LISTEN TO THE GRANDSON ABOUT HIS GRANDFATHER?.....BY USING YOUR REASONING THAT CHAN COULD BIAS OR CHANGE INFO TO MAKE GRANDFATHER LOOK GOOD.....IT FOLLOWS SOMEONE CAN SAY IT IS POSSIBLE THAT LATER YOUNGER BROTHER CAN CHANGE THINGS AND BIAS AND TRY TO MAKE OLDER BROTHER LOOK BETTER.......

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
Quote: ":"#6:

both loong gee choy and jeong yim have been in king mui, kong mun, singapore, hong kong, and a few othe places that slip my mind right now.

according to the chan clan Jeong yim and loong gee choy both took care of chan koon pak but it is also said believed that both of them taught clf to chan koon pak.
but if you were clf then you would know that.

it sounds like they are the same to me."

AND ANOTHER QUOTE : "10) how could the chan clan prove that loong gee choy and jeong yim are not one and the same. if you go by "well chan yiu chi said so" then look a little deeper. Jeong yim was said to have the goverment after him for not joining the military and needed to hide. Now what happens to criminals all over the world when the cops are after them, they change their name and identity to try and fool the cops."

IS THE FIRST QUOTE THE WHOLE AND FULL EXTENT OF YOUR "RESEARCH" FOR YOUR LONG JI CHOY = JEONG YIM CLAIM? IS THAT YOUR EVIDENCE OR "PROOF" THAT LONG = JEONG?

YOU MIGHT NEED TO DIG DEEPER OUTSIDE OF YOUR FUTSAN GROUP FOR INFO ABOUT LONG JI CHOY.........

ANOTHER THING.....IF JEONG YIM WAS HIDING AND CHANGED HIS NAME......THEN HOW CAN HE GO RUNNING A FUTSAN KUNG FU SCHOOL AND GET PUBLICITY AND BECOME FAMOUS AS "JEONG HUNG SING" (NOTE AND HINT: NOT LONG JI CHOY)

[hskwarrior]

If You Really Knew Kenny, Or Ever Read, You Will See On The Choyleefut.com.cn Web Site, They Are Also Sponsored By The Government, In An Attempt To Regain Popularity For Being The Birthplace Of Our Gung Fu.

Fut San Was Not The Only One Who Got Sponsored, The Chan Family Did Too.

I only keep what makes sense and leave behind what doesn't.

what's the problem with me mentioning that the chan family says choy fook was called lan tau fook because his head caught on fire in the escape of the destruction of the temple. where do you find fault with that?

about being biased, both sides can accuse each other, but there is no real concrete evidence that chan heung learned anything from anybody, except for what the grand son wrote down.

There is no proof of anything in regards to history that actually would come in written form from neither jeong yim nor chan heung. the chan family history was written by a chan family grandson, not some un-biased writer only interested in recording the history for posterity. there is no proof chan heung learned from monk choy fook. i have seen no shaolin documents that there was a monk named choy fook. if there are show me the old ancient written information.

There is no proof that chan heung did anything other than what the grand son wrote down. however, in fut san the hung sing kwoon is recognized for all of its efforts in protecting the country against the japanese. they were also closed down for being involved in the revolutions. this is well known, and documented within the fut san government.

once again, the best we can get on the historical side of things begin with the 3rd generation. the grand son.

yes it is possible that the fut san hsk could have a biased version, but that is why i research our history, to discover if there is anything possibly biased.

actually, i said they the part wrong ---the part of him dying young. but i could understand why that may have been said. if the government thought jeong yim to be dead at a young age, they would stop looking for him. the same idea is with wing chun. the possibility of it being created by a woman would take any heat off of the wing chun people because the government would think the style was no good because it was created by a woman.

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
Quote: "kenny,

your argument about 12 and 1836, and my 12 and 1826, i can easily fix that."

The way you carry on .....does it sound like your making things up and changing things as you go?

YOU TOLD US ALL HSK AGREE.....THEN YOU TELL US SINGAPORE HSK GOT IT WRONG......ARE YOU DISAGREEING WITH THEM?

ANOTHER THING......YOUR FUTSAN GROUP TELLS US JEONG BORN AROUND 1824 SO HE WOULD BE ABOUT 12 IN 1836.....YOU TELL US HE WAS 12 IN 1826...... THAT IS DISAGREEMENT ISN'T IT? DO YOU AGREE?

ARE YOU GOING TO ASK THE FUTSAN GROUP FOR APPROVAL BEFORE YOU PUBLICALLY "fix that" ?

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,

Quote : "what's the problem with me mentioning that the chan family says choy fook was called lan tau fook because his head caught on fire in the escape of the destruction of the temple. where do you find fault with that?"

YOU TAKE BITS OUT OF SOME SOURCES THEN REJECT OTHERS ....TO FIT YOUR LITTLE MODEL.....
YOU USED THE SCARRED HEAD INFO YOU TOOK FROM CHAN SOURCES IN YOUR ARGUMENT FOR YOUR CLAIM THAT CHOY FOOK CAN'T BE GGM.....THEN YOU REJECT CHAN SOURCES OTHER INFO THAT INDICATE CHAN HEUNG WAS FOUNDER OF CLF......YOU EVEN ATTACK CHAN YIU CHI RECORDS......BIAS AND RUMOUR....

WHAT IS YOUR CRITERIA FOR USING AND REJECTING INFO FROM CHAN SOURCES OR OTHER SOURCES? IS IT WHETHER THEY FIT YOUR LITTLE MODEL YOU MOULD?

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
Quote: "There is no proof that chan heung did anything other than what the grand son wrote down. however, in fut san the hung sing kwoon is recognized for all of its efforts in protecting the country against the japanese. they were also closed down for being involved in the revolutions. this is well known, and documented within the fut san government."

SO YOU ARE SAYING THE "FUTSAN GOVERNMENT" HAS RECORDS.....ANYTHING ABOUT JEONG YIM? DIDN'T YOU TELL US THAT JEONG WAS HIDING FROM THE GOVERNMENT....AND FUTSAN SCHOOL WAS ON GOVERNMENT HIT LIST?

WHAT GOVERNMENT? NOW OR QING?

[hskwarrior]

did not read my post where i said that there is a 10 year gap, and it makes sense to me because of the tai ping rebellion and its date of inception. so i as well as other hung sings claim he was born around 1814.

do you have proof of when chan heung was born? no! do you have chan heungs birth certificate, no!

so according to you kenny, why am i to believe the chan side over my own family?

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
Quote: "actually, i said they the part wrong ---the part of him dying young. but i could understand why that may have been said. if the government thought jeong yim to be dead at a young age, they would stop looking for him. "

DOESN'T THAT SOUND A BIT "CONVENIENT" TO THOSE WHO DON'T BUY YOUR STORY? ARE YOU MAKING THIS UP?

IS THIS MORE "IT IS POSSIBLE THAT"..... "PROOF" OR "EVIDENCE" ?

[hskwarrior]

if you don't start reading my post correctly, i will put you on my ignore list.

i don't think you read english correctly, or are very selective with what you absord.

no, i never said there is anything real concrete information, outside of knowing where his village was and how old he was when chan heung took him in.


now if something is a secret, if you write it down and someone gets a hold of it then its not a secret anymore then is it. secrets mean you don't tell a soul, and that is also one of the reasons i feel loong gee choy could be jeong yim.

he was wanted by the government, and taking that and understanding that changing names were normal back then, and it is not at all completely impossible that they are not one and the same person.

what can you or even joseph tell me about loong gee choy. where was he from? when was he born? how old was he when he went to chan heung to learn gung fu. how was it that chan heung came to take an outsider when all of his other students were of the same last name as him?

see, there is no one including the chan family that can tell you any more on loong gee choy than he helped chan heung and went here and there. if they had anymore on him they would have given a detailed account of him since he was also one of chan heungs most prize disciples.

thats funny though, i thought jeong yim was the most prized disciple of chan heung.? hmmmm...... but nothing more of loong gee choy is known than that. why not?

[hskwarrior]

maybe to you it does, but anything to the contrary sounds convenient to you now, doesn't it?

chan ngau sing is proof enough that jeong yim didn't die at a young age.

but kenny if you knew something about what china was like back then you'd have an open mind. but you just seem really mentally stuck on stupid.

the best you can do is say, "is that what you blah blah blah." or "what about the people who disagree with you?"

but what have you offered me to prove our history wrong except quotations from joseph?

kenny all you're doing is arguing with my points. however, you have nothing to prove me wrong except you incessant questions. why haven't you come up with something other that joseph has told you to say?

[Kennyfist]

QUOTE FROM YOUR "DEBATE" THREAD :"#6:

both loong gee choy and jeong yim have been in king mui, kong mun, singapore, hong kong, and a few othe places that slip my mind right now.

according to the chan clan Jeong yim and loong gee choy both took care of chan koon pak but it is also said believed that both of them taught clf to chan koon pak.
but if you were clf then you would know that.

it sounds like they are the same to me."

Is that the WHOLE AND FULL EXTENT OF YOUR "RESEARCH" for your long ji choy = jeong yim claim? What kind of "research" and what kind of "proof" is that?

Quote: "according to the fut san hsk, it was yuen hai that jeong yim sent to recruit chan ngau sing who was learning hung gar from chow gum biu."

What about " according to singapore hsk Jeong died young and was ambushed..."?

[hskwarrior]

what is your proof to the contrary whether they are one and the same?

i'm TELLING you to prove that wrong. beyond the shadow of a doubt. give me something that will shut my mouth. if you can't then your insane campaign to debunct the fut san hsk history is for not. you may just want to just give up. you will lose.

you may just want to quit now, and agree the chan clan have their version and the hung sing branch has theirs. nothing wrong or right just different versions.
I AM TELLING YOU YOU CAN'T WON'T EVER EVER ...................... IT JUST WON'T HAPPEN.

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
Are you back to the stategy like: "prove this wrong......what are you waiting for ?....prove this wrong...." ? :D

[hskwarrior]

YUEN HAI WAS A JEONG YIM STUDENT IN "FUT SAN" AND NOT SINGAPORE.

Yuen Hai is one of Jeong Yims very first students and had been with him for a very long time. Lau bun was his last student. Yuen Hai transmitted the hung sing history to Lau Bun and he passed that down to Jew Leong who is still alive today.

the rest of the singapore hsk's history is exactly the same as the fut san hsk's.

is disputing my/our history with questions the best you can do? why not tell us something if you have even an ounce of information about my branch.

go on, im waiting.

[hskwarrior]

what happened kenny,

why won't you answer the questions i put to you?

do you not know what to say?

do you need time to research our history a little bit?

stop disputing, and teach me something.

if you can't you are the biggest fool!

[Kennyfist]

It seems like your branch is pure ngoi nim sou.

You seem to like mob mentality. :D

[hskwarrior]

oh and by the way, we do have those things you claim we don't, and i would be glad to show you personally that we do.

when will you come up with your own comments, and leave what joseph said alone. whats wrong, you don't have a mind of your own?

its funny how you call people from a branch who believe the same story "mob mentality".......... you make me laugh.

[hskwarrior]

where is the answers to my questions ghost boy.

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,

Are you saying I speak for Joseph?

Quote: "why haven't you come up with something other that joseph has told you to say?"

WHERE IS JOSEPH? WHY DON'T YOU ASK JOSEPH? :D

[Kennyfist]

BTW where are the answers to those questions asked of you, including those from other threads? Are you going to address the points brought up?

Are you able to?

[hskwarrior]

oh my god :eek:

dude, i said you repeat what joseph says, nothing of your own accord.

admit it you are in love with joseph. you even posted one specifically for him, your hero. (don't take this wrong joseph, im only clowning him, not you).

why haven't you answered my questions yet.

[hskwarrior]

if you're not going to provide me with evidence to the contrary, then all you are doing is using what ever pent up anger at the world you may have and focus it on me. but like someone said on this forum , clf should have tough skin anyway, right.

what you do do is irritate me like a little brother who wants to hang with his big brother and his friends.

you gotta come at me with more than that to defeat the original yik wah tik, baby!

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
Remember a previous thread?

What about some thing like "I'm not selling our elephant set.......I'm just asking a question.....how much would you pay....?"

Another thing......you compared 2 sets of which both you don't know.......(CLF Gung ji and Hung Gar Gung ji ) and one (Hung Gar Gung ji, wasn't it?) that you have not seen....and came up with a conclusion like "ALL YOU CHANGED WAS A FINGER".....

YOU STILL HAVEN'T TOLD US WHERE YOU SAW A CLF GUNG JI, WHEN AND PERFORMED BY WHO. ARE YOU GOING TO TELL US, OR DID YOU LIE ABOUT SEEING IT?

YOUR COMPARISON OF 2 FORMS SAYS A LOT ABOUT YOUR "RESEARCH" TECHNIQUE, DOESN'T IT?

[Kennyfist]

Tough skin?

Do you know what is "thick skin of the face"? :D

[Ou Ji]

It seems like your branch is pure ngoi nim sou.

You seem to like mob mentality. :D

There it goes again. Check this statement out Fu Pow, another clue.

So, are you saying SF HSK is a bunch of gangsters or something? I'm horrified!
Could you please explain your remark, specifically the 'ngoi nim sou' part?

Anyone?

Bueller?

[hskwarrior]

hung sing kwoon goonies! hahaha :D :D :eek: :D :D

Hard core gangsters, taking choy lee fut into the next millenium. :D

[hskwarrior]

look at you kenny,

you can't beat me at the history so you gotta find other things to dispute me on.

that **** is hella funny.

now i don't think you're in love with joseph anymore kenny. i think you're in love with me.

:) :rolleyes: :p :D :eek: :eek: :D :eek:

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
BTW where are the answers to those questions asked of you, including those from other threads? Are you going to address the points brought up?

Are you able to?

[hskwarrior]

the question of me asking what someone would pay for a set that is hard to get is nothing wrong.

as i said, many f'n x's we weren't selling of the set. just wanted to know if you were wishing to learn that set, how much were you willing pay? it was a simple question.

so what was the problem with that?

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
Didn't you say you don't know what is noi nim sou? Are you saying now that your branch does have noi nim sou? Wha is noi nim sou?

[hskwarrior]

you are no committee im standing in front of. i will answer what i want and when i want.

you are full of bs, you are mentally unstable, and not worth the time i spend messing with you.

but you have proven you cannot answer the questions i have presented to you, so unless i feel like responding to you, this is it. you are a sucker, with a lot of time on your hands, and some anger management issues.

peace out there wannabe clf guy.

[Kennyfist]

Did you try to put your elephant into the spot light?

Elephants do have thick skin....including in the face ? :D

[hskwarrior]

after speaking on the phone with someone who is on this forum clarified what that means and i realized we do have that technique in applications not in the forms.

thank you.

[Kennyfist]

Do you need time to work out how to patch up the holes and get around the contradictions? :D

[hskwarrior]

you can check my elephant in a little while while i upload a couple of photo of the elephant for your enjoyment.

pls in an hour, check out: hsclf.zoomshare.com and look at the photo album.

[Kennyfist]

Didn't your comments associated with the chui kwong yuen video say a lot?

[hskwarrior]

whats your point fool?

[hskwarrior]

where's your gung fu biatch. you wannabe. you're no clf guy. u just want to be one.

[hskwarrior]

there are no holes, only the window i have opened for you to jump out of.

you can't answer my questions because you know my version of the history is correct. and you are just mad about it, aren't you? :D

now what :eek:

[Kennyfist]

Maybe you don't answer questions because you can't.

Your story has so many holes and contradictions, and wild claims unsupported by evidence. Even the "research" and reasoning seems faulty.

[hskwarrior]

you couldn't do any better , busta!

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
Quote from your "debate" thread:"what do you gain by trying to debate me. if you happen to win one, what you gonna brag, heh heh i beat a clf guy at history. i'm so cool."

I don't think my reasoning has as many faults as yours.

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,

Quote: "How come no one has ever done the research and said, no frank, i've checked the hung sing history and this is where they are wrong and show me so i can have a moment and discuss this with you."

Discuss? How can you discuss without answering questions asked of you, and jus throw insults and threats?

Hasn't someone already showed you WHERE YOUR STORY SEEMS WRONG?

DIDN'T YOU START A THREAD ABOUT DEBATE AND THEN TOLD SOMEONE HE CAN'T PARTICIPATE?

BTW DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF TO HAVE "DEBATED" ? HOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND "DEBATE" ?

[Kennyfist]

Hsk ,
Quote :" was just watching the clip again, and joseph asked me to compare how fu pow moves as to chui kwan yuen.

Well, fu pow has that lkh flow, but there is no life in his hands. or in other words, the intent behind his techniques is lacking life (Strength?)

chui kwan yuen and his students, even when having soft hands you can see the intent of the technique.

and that intent, life, and power i try to install in my students everyday during basics."

ALSO QUOTE: "after speaking on the phone with someone who is on this forum clarified what that means and i realized we do have that technique in applications not in the forms.

thank you."

[Kennyfist]

hsk,
So Is It How You Move Or Is It "a Technique".

What Is "that Technique" You Have In Applications But Not In Forms?

Noi Nim Sou?

[Kennyfist]

HSK,

ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER?

hsk,
So Is It How You Move Or Is It "a Technique".

What Is "that Technique" You Have In Applications But Not In Forms?

Noi Nim Sou?

[Kennyfist]

HSK,

ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER?

hsk,
So Is It How You Move Or Is It "a Technique".

What Is "that Technique" You Have In Applications But Not In Forms?

Noi Nim Sou?

[Kennyfist]

hsk,

Silence Can Also Say A Lot.... :D

[SimonM]

Man you CLF guys get really ornery about lineage issues! :eek:

[Yum Cha]

I'm confused, some of the stories I've heard, some of the characters get very confusing... Its all very hard to track.

Now, I heard about a style called Choi Laid Butt, and the originator was the green a$$ed monk....

Does that fit in here somehow???

[extrajoseph]

Ahh Yum Cha, you who came from the emerald city of Wagga Wagga,

Funny you should mentioned Choi Laid Butt. Now, I heard about a style called Fak Mee too, and the originator was a white a$$ed hairy eyebrow nun....

Does she fit in yours somehow???

Why don't you throw another prawn in the Barbie, crack a tinny, mind your pees and queers, keep your trap shut and watch the show....

:rolleyes: :p :D

[extrajoseph]

That was a pretty low act, scrapping the bottom a bit for an Oz, to imply Choi Fook was a **** and he Laid Butt!

[Yum Cha]

EJ,

Mate you got it all wrong....Pak Mei Pie is an eating disorder, not a sexual pecadillo.

I really expected better.... :p

Ok, Ok, back to the peanut gallery....

[hskwarrior]

no,

im afraid its kenny. if anyone posts a message he tears it apart. even if it said have a good day. he would then say "Are you saying i should have a good day?"
and you know dispute how we know if it would be a good day, where and when we heard that it would be a good day. but watch out, if too many people say it will be a good day then kenny will call it "MOb Mentality." :D :D :D

[dragon36]

Hello KSK.

Last week I have been of vacations and I have not been able to follow with the "debate", the more you speak the more you contradict your same one and the more holes appear in your history.

I have several questions:

1) You say that Jeong Yim was born in 1814 (instead of 1824 like Salvaterra), as a old one could teach to GM Chan Ngau Sing? .You say an another post that an old man cannot teach well martial arts (GM Lau Bun - Doc Fai Wong).

2) You say Cai Dhe Zong was the monk Green Grass; in which year Cai Dhe Zong escape alive from the attack to the temple of Shaolin. Whichever years it had Cai Dhe Zong when he was the instructor of the fighter monks , 10, 20, 30...?

3) If Chan Heung were born in 1805 when meet with Jeong Yim, your history, would be 21 years old (1826), like can be that coming from a martial family, Chan Yuen Woo was masterful of martial arts, was Chan Heung the Instructor and not anyone of the its elders?

4) In addition to by its youth, 21 years, if Chan Heung do not teach to him more than during five years, and only, as it says Lacey texts and philosophy, that taught Jeong Yim of martial arts of Chan Heung, something or nothing?. With so little knowledge of martial arts like it could accept it in monk Green Grass (already very old) and that could have taught to him in so only 5 years (1831-1836). If you review sides that reason why accounts instead of speaking of the life of Jeong Yim and the monk Green Grass that seems you speak of the life of GM Doc Fai Wong (Jeong Yim) and of the Teacher Lau Bun (Green Grass), and that I remember it is the youth and the time of stay of GM DFW with GM LB one of your arguments to descreditar it.

I have more questions, because the errors and failures that you are committing in your history are constant, but am going to hope to see if conversations to follow.

A greeting.

I´m Sorry for errors, I don´t speak english; (Original Write in Spanish and translate with Google)

[hskwarrior]

you're too late dragon 36 class is over, and we are all going home.

you will have to find someone else to debate, or you yourself will have to do your own research to answer your own questions.. if i could find it, so could you.

good hunting.

hsk

[hskwarrior]

dragon, go somewhere else with that.

if you want to pick at something, pick at chan heung killing a tiger with his own hand in his old age and was never injured not one slightly little bit.

if you wish to pick at something about age, and jeong yim being old, pick on choy fook, who died shortly after chan heung left and he was 112 yrs old.

so i think instead of you asking me questions, if you want them answered, YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD DO THE HISTORY RESEARCH AND FIND OUT FOR YOURSELVES.

stop trying to take it out on me because your chan history is full of bs as well.

can you tell me the dates chan heung learned from the green grass monk?

can you tell me when he learned from lee yau san.

so dragon, as ive said to everyone else, you can take your arguments with you and bounce. personally do the research and when you know it , then come and debate me.

all you guys attack without knowing both sides of the history.

more than 3/4 of you don't know half of the whole clf history, just of your chan family branch.

dfw was a very short time student of lau bun, and acccording to our standards is not enough. at the most 4 years, huh, under my sifu 4 years only gets you 4 sets if you're lucky. since we are the current inheritors of lau buns branch, and he was done nothing for the hung sing branch, we say that he is not a hung sing man because once lau bun died he put down his hsk lineage in search of the chan clan. and didn't go to a hung sing person to continue his training.

he went to and elder who was at one time a member of the fut san hsk, but changed over to the chan side as well. but what you didn't know is that the fut san hsk members tried to get dfw's next teacher out of the fut san hsk because they felt he didn't deserve it.

do not respond to these historical debates because i am done with it. i have batteled a few great members here, and i still believe my branches account wholeheartedly.

peace out.

[dragon36]

Hello HSK Thanks not to respond.

You speak of Chan History,I do not create all Chan history, if you create everything is your problem.

Here is spoken of your history, not of the others. If you think that a part of other histories is incredible, so that you in your history (with other names) you say the same?

Hunting:

1) Cai Dhe Zong: "In the year 1736 the Manchues (Qing Dynasty - 1644 - 1911) set afire the Monastery Shaolin de Henan, north of China, single few survivors were able to escape of the terrible massacre. Between that they were, Li Zhikai, Hu Dedi, Ma Shaoxing, Fang Dahong and Cai Dezhong, to which Yun Zhong and Zhi Kong were added."

(http://www.centrokaimen.com.ar/Kung_fu/choylifatrub.htm) Written by Ruben Chavez, (Fut San Hung Sing) He was with HSK in Fut San.

Supposing that only it was 20 years old, in 1831 (data given by HSK) (when one was with Jeong Yim) it would be 115 years old.

We can to say that if were a monk who taught to Jeong Yim, that in addition was called Green Grass, this was not Cai Dhe Zong.

If I am mistaken give me the correct data and your sources.

A greeting.

[hskwarrior]

the history debate is over.

don't you understand?

its over. no mas. kaput. wala na. fininski! i agree with the rest, this debate is not good for clf. regardless who is wrong or right, NO ONE will ever know the truth about either chan heung nor jeong yim. there are no written records coming from either side of the family tree during the 1800's.

information on the chan side comes from chan yiu chi the grandson, the fut san hsk comes from chan sing, yuen hai for my branch. chan sing is not the grandson.
but no one has any hard, concrete, beyond the shadow of a doubt, this will never in any of our lives be proven or disproven. NO SIDE WILL WIN!

so the best we could do is promote our current schools, practice makes perfect, and live and let live.

this is like an argument amongst a bunch of brothers. and thats what we are as a whole when it comes to the clf world. we can't stab each other in the back. as a clf franternity, we should all keep the peace.

hsk

[firepalm]

No wait just a minute... I've decided I am going to get into this fray and I'll decide when it's over! :eek:

[hskwarrior]

anh, anh, wrong! "I" decide when and where its over. without me who will you debate? ;)

just joking, right?

so guess what.................


:eek: its over!

[hskwarrior]

I'm the WINNER! :D :eek:

Yea, yea, I'm da wiener, oh i min winner, okay? :o yea, hooray for me, yea, :D


im on my way......im on my way..........im on my way............im on my wayyyyy!
'

thank you thank you no photographs pls. get that camera out my face you muder fudder!

[Kennyfist]

Hsk,
Quote: "dfw was a very short time student of lau bun, and acccording to our standards is not enough. at the most 4 years, huh, under my sifu 4 years only gets you 4 sets if you're lucky. since we are the current inheritors of lau buns branch, and he was done nothing for the hung sing branch, we say that he is not a hung sing man because once lau bun died he put down his hsk lineage in search of the chan clan. and didn't go to a hung sing person to continue his training."


Sounds like dfw was a smart man....since from your "answer" to other threads....your branch is pure ngoi nim sou....but wait...you still have mob mentality in that "your not the only one" but their probably (?) are others in your branch that are also pure ngoi nim sou.....

BTW....isn't dfw your sisuk or sisuk gung? Oh, by YOUR/YOUR GROUP STANDARDS short time not enough blah blah.....didn't he get your highly conveted blah blah elephant? Did it take you or your teacher 20 yrs to get it.... if so,why?

What about your claim that jeong mastered chan heung technique in 5 years?

what about your claim jeong learnt from ggm for 5 years ...was jeong young and ggm old?....Compare to your claim about dfw learning from old aged lau bun....

Quote: "and didn't go to a hung sing person to continue his training."

BTW I wouldn't recommend anyone to you or your teacher based on your attitude and behaviour here...and how your teacher "promoted" you to "manager" says something doesn't it?

[hskwarrior]

kenny,

my boy. come here. let me talk to you.

I GOT NGOI NIM SOU RIGHT HERE FOR YOU, COME CLOSER AND TAKE A LOOK.


POW RIGHT IN THE KISSER!!!!!! :eek:

[hskwarrior]

No One Asked You To Recommend Anything About Us.

We Get Our Own Students Thank You.

I Got Some Good Ones.

Kenny:

you're Not Choy Lee Fut!

[hskwarrior]

But U Wanna Be, Don't You?

[hskwarrior]

We Got Hsk Noi Lim Sau.

Do You?

No.

Why Not?

Because Chan Heung Didn't Create Choy Lee Fut, He Cut And Pasted It Together.

[hskwarrior]

See,

I Think Chan Heung Lied To His Followers.

He Never Created Choy Lee Fut. It Already Existed In 2 Parts. The Choy And Lee Styles.

Now, Jeong Yim Taught The Real Choy Lee Fut, With The Fut Ga In It.

Chan Heung Only Taught The Choy And Lee Style, No Fut.