Not so serious nam-siulum question

[Gowgee]

I've been following some of the hung-gar and wing-chun threads recently, and it seems like some lineages have taken on forms from other arts to add auxilliary training for their students. For example, HG has taken on hand and weapons forms from bak-siulum, and Malaysian WC has taken on HG and CLF forms. Is this a fairly common thing done in nam siulum, and when do you think adding forms is appropriate?

[CyCo PL]

I think it's appropriate when the first "true" form of a certain style is far too advanced to teach to a beginner... I think technically the first real Hung Gar form is Fu Hok, but that form is a little complicated for a beginner, so we start off with much simpler forms like Lau Ga Kuen, Sam Yin Kuen, etc. Fu Hok is actually pretty far along in our curriculum, so I guess you could technically say that I'm not *really* learning Hung Gar until I start learning the Fu Hok form. I'm not exactly sure of the origins of the beginning forms in our curriculum, I think I read somewhere that Lam Jo was the first to start putting the more basic forms in the beginners curriculum to give newbs a stronger foundation before they start training the real hung ga forms.

[Southern Fist]

Gowgee:
IMHO it is not common for styles to teach other styles forms. It is all about the Sifu of the School to decide if he wants to add other forms from other styles.

Hung Ga and Wing chun my share some similarities in some short range techniques and applications even some Weapons. But, they are complete stystems of themselves.
Some historians have stated there may have been some cross training even back in the 1800's on the Red Boat opera tour group between a Hung Ga Sifu and a Wing Chun Sifu.

CyCo PL:

Lam Jo Sigung may have incorporated some forms from others styles as you mention to enhance the flexibility and flavor. But Remember they are not core Hung Ga Forms.

The Core forms are:

Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen
Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen
Sup Ying Kuen or Ng Ying/Ng Hang Kuen
Tit Sin Kuen

As You mentioned Fu Hok is the Heart of the Hung Ga System that is why it is one of the four pillar forms.

[Invisible-fist]

Remember, the traditional way of learning hung gar, is you would stand in a horse stance for an hour a day. This would be done for a year, before you learned your first form.

This is not possible in the current reality of running a school today. Nobody is going to pay a hundred a month to stand in a horse. So modern sifus Throw the students a bone by giving them basic forms that they can do while they develop the stance and internal ging necessary to do the pillars.

Most of the supplementary forms are simplified versions of forms that will be done later. 3 animals, for example, is a shorter version of five animals.

There are also purists that teach only the pillars. Different strokes to move the world.

[Gowgee]

I was just checking out the Wing Chun Archives (http://www.wingchunkuen.com/modules.php?name=Encyclopedia&op=terms&eid=3&ltr=&rop=ALL). There are at least a dozen different lines of Wing Chun that have CLF, HG or hakka influences, and yet people still call, and consider it wing chun. That kind of flexibility is good stuff.

Just out of interest, do Hung Gar folks consider arts like Black Tiger and Jow Gar to be of the Hung Gar family today, or are they independent arts in their own right?

[David Jamieson]

Black Tiger in several iterations is considered 'Hung'. Although, it can be stand alone as well. Pretty much every southern style belongs to in part the top branches of the tree.

[jmd161]

Just out of interest, do Hung Gar folks consider arts like Black Tiger and Jow Gar to be of the Hung Gar family today, or are they independent arts in their own right?


Not so sure about today because most Hung newbies are not familiar with Black Tiger, but like David said Black Tiger is considered Hung family. Although, Black Tiger is considered Hung family, it's always been known as a stand alone style.

Most old school Black Tiger masters are also Hung Kuen masters.



jeff:)