View Full Version : Asian/Caucasian connection.
johnyk
10-02-2005, 05:34 AM
Hi, I am part oriental and part white. It seems to me that every Oriental guy I know is after a white girl. Is there something to it. I have friends who are Cambodian, Thigh, Vietnamese, Karean all want a white women.
Is there a trend like that. One of the sponsors www.worldcombatdating.com (http://www.worldcombatdating.com)
has men of different origins, but mostly white girls. What is up with that.
Ou Ji
10-02-2005, 05:54 AM
Seems like a fair trade. Most of us 'white guys' want asian women.
Must be nature at work. ;) ;)
SifuAbel
10-02-2005, 10:01 AM
I can't shy away from this. I am a latino who is with a chinese chick.
I am not with her BECAUSE she is chinese.
I think, however, that there is a deep seated psychological or genetic tendency to interbreed with other racial groups. Its a form of genetic diversification.
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-02-2005, 10:47 AM
i dunno ... i just figure its the human desire to have a break from the norm ... something different.
like if you eat chereoes every morning it might be nice to have some life once in a while.
same thing with women. except that cereal is better for you. and doesn't b1tch and cry.
It is always about physical attraction over soul mate, is it not?
:D
Must be just you dude.
I'll take an asian girl over a white chick any time.
I'm Chinese btw. :D
pageant (http://www.missasianamerica.com/Galry_pageant01.html)
:D
_William_
10-02-2005, 01:24 PM
For me, race isn't a factor at all.
yutyeesam
10-02-2005, 02:01 PM
Hi, I am part oriental and part white. It seems to me that every Oriental guy I know is after a white girl. Is there something to it. I have friends who are Cambodian, Thigh, Vietnamese, Karean all want a white women.
Is there a trend like that. One of the sponsors www.worldcombatdating.com (http://www.worldcombatdating.com)
has men of different origins, but mostly white girls. What is up with that.
One theory I heard is that white wimins as a whole tend to give it up faster than azn wimins...and are down with tryin the freaky stuff more.
So it may operate on the law of the path of least resistance?
:D
Willow Palm
10-02-2005, 02:43 PM
It could just be that everyone likes differant things. I've seen both sides of the fence and I don't prefer one over the other. Women are women and race doesn't seem to play too much of a role. And without getting all PG-13 on ya, I'll leave it at that.
We may all have our ideal wimmin or min.
A lot of times, they may not exist.
We just get to know one another for what we really are.
And go from there。
At the age of internet dating, culture, lingo, country and all the distances are fastly disappearing.
I think.
:D
Ou Ji
10-02-2005, 06:20 PM
True true, but asian chicks are still hot.
Dahmanegi
10-02-2005, 10:48 PM
The word "oriental" is derogatory towards asian people, and so is your spelling.
Nuttin' wrong with it.
All differs mang...I for one am not a big fan of 'oriental' chicks, and I myself am Asian. Lately...it's been them half breeds (just recently, half flip half swedish) and
egyptians for me.
Slade
10-02-2005, 11:21 PM
Im a European looking Australian, and I think asian girls are overly more attractive than white girls, though saying that there are some white girls which take you breath away so to speak. :)
The word "oriental" is derogatory towards asian people, and so is your spelling.
I dont think it is, its actually being descriptive, like calling us whities, caucasian. You think calling a person a ***** or something equally racist would be better? I think not.
sorry if I offended any orientals by saying that, it was not my intention, it was merely to belittle Dahmanegi. :)
Scott R. Brown
10-03-2005, 03:27 AM
Well personally I think it IS derogatory to be called a Caucasian. I am not from the Caucasus and neither are any of my ancestors. Further, being called White is derogatory too!! I am not white skinned, but more of a pinkish brown! So stop it now before I get really MAD and cry!!!! :mad: :(
I prefer to be called a Scotish, German, Dutch, French, Cherokee American!! Cuz that is what I AM!!!! ;)
And my wife is neither Asian nor Oriental! She is a Malaysian, Chinese, Filipino, Spanish soon to be American.
On a serious note:
Actually anyone east of Europe can be considered an Asian and those called Asian are actually Oriental if they are from south of the Himilayas, including the Malay Archipelago as far south as the Philippines! So actually Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Mongolian are not Orientals at all by the descriptive term, but are Asian. But also Arabs, Persians and Indians are technically Asians as well!
The source of derogation is from the intent or attitude of the individual and not the words they choose. The word chosen is only derogatory if the user intends to derogate with the word. If the word user means no offense or does not intend to be derogatory and the hearer takes offense it merely reveals their own immaturity and low self-esteem!
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-03-2005, 07:25 AM
i heard their vaginers are sideways
*spits*
Judge Pen
10-03-2005, 07:43 AM
Well, I've been accused of having "yellow fever" but I think that's an unfair characterization. I do prefer dark-haired, olive skinned women. It's a preference, not a requirement. I've dated a few Asians (I am engaged to a beautiful Japanese woman right now who teases me about this preference) as well as Italian, Middle-Eastern, African-American etc. It really doesn't make a difference.
For me, it's just different than my looks and completion and I find that attractive. To read anymore into it is being unfair.
This kind of thread is getting to be typical of what you might find here on the forum on a Monday. I can always tell who didn't get any on the weekend. :D
Ou Ji
10-03-2005, 09:06 AM
Mixed race chicks are hot!
Oh, BTW, I got some over the weekend. I just want some more, and variety. But that's me, your mileage may vary.
PangQuan
10-03-2005, 09:52 AM
I think every culture produces some pretty fine specimines of girlies...
SevenStar
10-03-2005, 09:54 AM
Seems like a fair trade. Most of us 'white guys' want asian women.
Must be nature at work. ;) ;)
And most asian women I know are crazy about black men - the world comes full circle.
SevenStar
10-03-2005, 10:00 AM
Well, I've been accused of having "yellow fever" but I think that's an unfair characterization. I do prefer dark-haired, olive skinned women. It's a preference, not a requirement. I've dated a few Asians (I am engaged to a beautiful Japanese woman right now who teases me about this preference) as well as Italian, Middle-Eastern, African-American etc. It really doesn't make a difference.
For me, it's just different than my looks and completion and I find that attractive. To read anymore into it is being unfair.
Same here - I like women in general, race aside. *cough* MING YUE *cough, cough* But there can be problems, naturally. I dated an arabic woman and went through all types of he11 with her family. Same with a vietnamese woman I dated. A white girl I dated b-slapped a guy for making comments about her dating a black man. Such is life.
SevenStar
10-03-2005, 10:06 AM
wait a minute - wtf does this have to do with kung fu?
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-03-2005, 10:35 AM
And most asian women I know are crazy about black men - the world comes full circle.
all women like black guys. its cause of those big baby makin clubs you swing between your knees.
Fallout
10-03-2005, 10:42 AM
I think it has to do with racism. White men generally are turned off by black women. Black women are descriminated against by all races of men, even other black men. The men go out and find lighter skinned girlfriends.
Meanwhile, white and asian women are seen as "cleaner" and more beautiful.
When someone says they just aren't attracted to black women, that is racism in disguise.
Ou Ji
10-03-2005, 10:42 AM
wait a minute - wtf does this have to do with kung fu?
Are you kidding me?
Women and kung fu go together like, like,
like women and anything. Geeze, I thought you would know that.
Oh yeah, black women are hot!
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-03-2005, 10:50 AM
I think it has to do with racism. White men generally are turned off by black women. Black women are descriminated against by all races of men, even other black men. The men go out and find lighter skinned girlfriends.
Meanwhile, white and asian women are seen as "cleaner" and more beautiful.
When someone says they just aren't attracted to black women, that is racism in disguise.
well thanks for gettin the thread deleted or locked. i had 2 funny comments in here too.
we were all walkin the line till that post.
the funny thing is that post sounds worse than my last two even though mine were intentionally bad. mine were obviously all in fun though.
David Jamieson
10-03-2005, 10:53 AM
I get a real sense of the sheer amount of virgins and limited sexual experience type peeps there are on this board.
In the end, you might be pleasantly surprised with who you fall in love with...as opposed to just wanting to stuff yer d1ck in a crack whatever it might be. :rolleyes:
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-03-2005, 11:13 AM
In the end, you might be pleasantly surprised with who you fall in love with...as opposed to just wanting to stuff yer d1ck in a crack whatever it might be. :rolleyes:
you mean like the crack in the couch cushions?
David Jamieson
10-03-2005, 11:17 AM
you mean like the crack in the couch cushions?
lol. wasn't that in a movie where some dude was into humping his couch?
I guess everyone has a kink, just everyone doesn't express their kink. too bad if you don't cause now you'll never know!
Get it while you can because seriously, you're getting older and by the time you realize what you missed you ain't gonna get it without paying a bit o money that you may or may not have.
get your ya yas out early, find out what you like and if it's couch cushions, then so be it you freak. Go do your couch!
Anyone seen the 40 year old virgin?
I like his toy collections though.
:D
PangQuan
10-03-2005, 11:26 AM
and sometimes, instead of darts, they spit venom.
OOPs. it is so R rated. I deleted the post.
:D
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-03-2005, 11:40 AM
get your ya yas out early, find out what you like and if it's couch cushions, then so be it you freak. Go do your couch!
no ya yas here. i've only been with one girl since i was 15.
still with her ... 10 years this december.
she's only been with me as well. i know this is true because odly enough she's pretty and if she had been with anyone else she would have realized that they come in different sizes. then she would have went and gotten herself one of those sevenstar brands of pleasure sticks.
Dahmanegi
10-03-2005, 02:20 PM
Sure I may lack a little something for taking offense in the word, but this is the modern era, and the connotation behind the word is offensive. Oriental is an old fashioned word and for you to be using it in the first place and to... a.) be of half asian decent, and/or b.) be posting on this forum, shows your immaturity and ignorance. Still don't believe me? Check your dictionary, if it's not dated, it will often times list it as an offensive word. If you're lazy, here is a section from www.dictionary.com that explains why "asian" is the preferred word to use nowadays.
ori·ental·ly adv.
Usage Note: Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Orientalmeaning “eastern”is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable.
Shaolinlueb
10-03-2005, 02:28 PM
my friend she said it best to me. pu$$y is pu$$y.
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-03-2005, 02:33 PM
Sure I may lack a little something for taking offense in the word, but this is the modern era, and the connotation behind the word is offensive. Oriental is an old fashioned word and for you to be using it in the first place and to... a.) be of half asian decent, and/or b.) be posting on this forum, shows your immaturity and ignorance. Still don't believe me? Check your dictionary, if it's not dated, it will often times list it as an offensive word. If you're lazy, here is a section from www.dictionary.com that explains why "asian" is the preferred word to use nowadays.
ori·ental·ly adv.
Usage Note: Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Orientalmeaning “eastern”is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable.
that is the most ridiculous thing posted in this thread.
and after my posts i have to congradulate you man.
Dahmanegi
10-03-2005, 02:36 PM
Hence the ignorance.
johnyk
10-03-2005, 02:46 PM
Not being attracted to some women is not racism.
You are just not attracted. Do I have to have sex with all the black women, in order to prove that I am not a racists.
PangQuan
10-03-2005, 02:50 PM
yes, actually you do.
Mortal1
10-03-2005, 02:51 PM
I agree about the difference between Asian and oriental. I don't agree with being insulted by it. That is just how others see you. We all get offended way too easy these days.
Recently in New york the waiter wrote on the back of the check "The Jew couple". As to describe what people in the restaurant they were. They got all insulted. For what? Are they not Jews? If I was there with my girl and they wrote the Italian couple I wouldn't be insulted. Jewish people are so proud to be indentified as jews in every circle. They should be proud to be a jew couple!
Lets get thicker skins ok people.
Dahmanegi
10-03-2005, 02:57 PM
Let's get one thing straight. I'm not going to go cry to momma cause some people don't know the difference. The point is, that people SHOULD know the difference.
FuXnDajenariht
10-03-2005, 03:06 PM
lets keep this simple. if a word isn't offensive in a context like oriental cuisine or medicine then it isn't offensive. mmmkay?
now if someone says nig*** cuisine or music or just plain ol " honey, look at the nig' ". thats another story. you see the difference? no matter what your describing it'll still get your ass handed to you.
i hope that clears up your confusion.
SevenStar
10-03-2005, 03:06 PM
I think it has to do with racism. White men generally are turned off by black women. Black women are descriminated against by all races of men, even other black men. The men go out and find lighter skinned girlfriends.
Meanwhile, white and asian women are seen as "cleaner" and more beautiful.
When someone says they just aren't attracted to black women, that is racism in disguise.
I'm gonna avoid locking the thread, but I'll address it:
To be more correct (from my current point of view as a bouncer in a popular club in the south) White men LOVE black women. I see it every night. They see these beautiful, shapely women with hips and a nice rear end, and they are all on them like white on rice. If you are going to address racial issues though, the real question is how many of them will ADMIT this desire that they have...
Black women take the butt end of the stick due to people's perception of their attitude. In general, People think that if there is any woman that will tell you off and curse you out for doing something to her, it's a black woman. Granted, that attitude can turn some people off. But that is not an issue of looks or "cleanliness", but one of personality. Where in the he11 did you get the "cleaner" comment from? that's the most racist comment I've seen/heard in a LONG time. When thinking about that though, you have to think about where this attitude comes from. What you said has some truth - they are discriminated against by EVERYONE, in general, as they are the absolute minority - they are black AND female. Being that they get shat on by everyone in general, you can understand where the attitude comes from.
I wouldn't say that a person saying that they aren't attracted to black women is racism in disguise. I'm not attracted to redheads. Doesn't mean I racism against them (That's an inside joke for anyone that remembers Rolls), It only means I haven't seen one I'd be interested in dating yet.
PangQuan
10-03-2005, 03:12 PM
generally if people dont know the difference its not their fault.
ignorance is ignorance.
a lot of people dont go around studying things like this.
how keen are you on every politically correct terminology for every single ethnic group on the planet?
i bet out of ignorance you could easily offend someone, and likely do, ignorant the entire time never even realizing that you insulted someone...and you to this day still dont know it.
FuXnDajenariht
10-03-2005, 03:24 PM
its ironic but sometimes the perception of "ignorance" orginates from the guilt other people have and has less to do with the race itself. you go around and ask some people if a "racial" word offends them and alot of the time surprisingly they'll say no.
but if you say that same word infront of someone of a different race they act more shocked and appalled than is necessary. their afraid of not seeming P.C. im guessing. i think people actually are getting thicker skinned though. sort of as a backlash. you see racial slurs getting spouted everywhere now. atleast where i live. i dont know if thats good or bad. but maybe people are tried of letting trivial words get to them so much.
its amazing though how a few combinations of letters can bring up so many emotions... people are strange...
Hell, forget racism.....how about genderism? This whole thread is judgmental in one way or another toward women in general: whether they're pretty or ugly, desirable or not, etc. As if anyone has the right to stand on a pedestal and judge and/or define another, especially based on such shallow terms.
"So and so is attractive. So and so is not. I have spoken. So let it be written. So let it be done." Geesh. :rolleyes:
KC Elbows
10-03-2005, 04:17 PM
Hell, forget racism.....how about genderism? This whole thread is judgmental in one way or another toward women in general: whether they're pretty or ugly, desirable or not, etc. As if anyone has the right to stand on a pedestal and judge and/or define another, especially based on such shallow terms.
"So and so is attractive. So and so is not. I have spoken. So let it be written. So let it be done." Geesh. :rolleyes:
People who roll their eyes are seriously fugly.
Scott R. Brown
10-03-2005, 04:59 PM
It is in the nature of humans to separate themselves into “us and them” social groups. Racial groups are just the most outwardly noticeable. But even racial groups create separate groups within themselves. Many blacks separate themselves from other blacks by how dark their skin is, many Mexicans separate themselves into Border Brothers (originating from Mexico), Southerners (originating from southern California) Northerners (originating from northern California). My historical brethren, the Scots, separated themselves into Highlanders and Lowlanders and then even more into specific Clans!
Humans are basically tribal by nature. We function much better and gain a sense of identity and belonging through maintaining social relationships within small groups. My wife is a Filipina by nationality; she is from the metropolitan Manila area. Manila is divided into many small neighborhoods called Baranguay (pronounced BARREN-GAY). A Baranguay is basically a small village within the greater city. They elect their own leaders and their own local law enforcement individuals. Baranguay police mediate local disputes and intervene in relatively minor crimes and disturbances. The city police are called in for major crimes and to transport offenders to jail. This is a perfect example of how people divide themselves into smaller groups. Now, even within the Baranguay’s there are smaller familial groups. My wife’s family has lived on her street for over 100 years. They owned an orchard before it was over taken by the expanding city. But within this small group smaller groups are found.
Divisions are a natural human behavior and will continue to occur as long as humans are human. Words are used to derogate selected others outside a specific social group! This generally serves the purpose of building social cohesiveness within the group. A common enemy strengthens group unity! This occurs within all groups. The Politically Correct crowd derogates anyone they decide does not fall within their predetermined social rules. This basically makes them hypocrites since they are engaging in the same behavior for which they are critical of others. If racial derogations are inappropriate then all derogation should be considered inappropriate as well.
However within the context of this discussion it must be understood that words mean whatever any individual wants them to mean! As an example, take the “N” word; socially speaking, Blacks are allowed to refer to each other by this nomen, while others are not. Blacks use the word at times as a term of endearment when referring to their close friends. Even if a white used the same term with the intent of using it as a term of endearment it would be considered socially offensive. To some, the White person’s intent when using the word would be irrelevant! This is itself a form of racism. The term is offensive because of the race of the person using it and this is undeniably racism! If we wish to stamp out racism then we must stamp it out in all its forms. We can't say it is ok for Blacks to be racist, but Whites, or Asians or Hispanics (Latinos for the easily offended!) are not allowed. The context of a seemingly offensive action or word must be taken into consideration if we wish to act justly. To automatically label another person a racist due to something they said taken out of context or disregarding their original intent is ignorant, immature and intellectually irresponsible.
Take the example of Jackie Chan’s comment in Rush Hour: He goes into a bar and repeats what he hears his Black friend say without understanding the social connotations. His character has no idea of the social consequences of what he is saying, yet he instantly offends the entire bar. This is racism on the part of the bar patrons. They automatically took offense because the term was used by a non-Black without taking the time to understand the original intent! The intent is clearly innocent within that context of how and why it was said. The behavior of the bar patrons may be understandable, but it is still ignorant and immature!
This form of racism has long been justified because of the historical oppression of Blacks within American society. However, racism should be disapproved of in all its forms or one cannot consider their own actions or attitudes just, moral or ethical!
The offensiveness of the “N” word is due to the historical usage of the word to derogate the human quality of Blacks. The word has carried over its social offensiveness to this day, but it is only offensive within a specified context determined by the Politically Correct and the over sensitive! I am not saying the word is not still used to derogate Blacks and I do not intend to harp only on the “N” word. It is merely the most commonly understood term of derogation within American society and that is why I am using it as an example. Any word that is INTENDED to be derogatory should be considered an immature usage and it can be ANY WORD!! That is my point! “It is the intent of the person using the word that makes it derogatory, NOT the word in and of itself!!” Each social group seems to want to determine which words they want to be derogatory of them. This creates a mind set of victimhood, and is not a productive method of reaching social equality! If I take offense because another is derogatory of me, it says something about my maturity if I consider their words or opinion meaningful in my life. It also says something about the maturity of the person, but I am the one responsible for how I allow their words to affect me. I can't change the attitudes of other people, but I can change my own.
To be very clear: I am well aware many like to re-interpret or take out of context what others post therefore please read the following:
“I AM NOT APPROVING THE COMMON EVERYDAY USAGE OF THE “N” WORD!! IT IS CLEARLY SOCIALLY TABOO IN AMERICA!!! I MERELY USE THE WORD AS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW A SPECIFIC WORD MEANS WHAT A SOCIAL GROUP WISHES IT TO MEAN. THIS WORD HAS A SOCIAL CONTEXT THAT HAS A LONG HISTORY OF ABUSE!! I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT ANYONE USE THIS WORD WHO IS NOT BLACK!! HOWEVER I WOULD ENCOURAGE ANYONE WHO HEARS THE WORD SPOKEN TO MAKE AN EFFORT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THE INTENDED CONTEXT BEFORE THEY KICK SOMEONE’S A$$!! AND THIS APPLIES TO “ALL” WORDS THAT MAY BE ARBITRARILY DETERMINED BY SELF APPOINTED P.C. POLICE TO BE DEROGATOTY!!
AS IN “ASIAN – ORIENTAL”!!!!!!!
Ou Ji
10-03-2005, 05:51 PM
Redheads are hot!
Serpent
10-03-2005, 06:17 PM
they are the absolute minority - they are black AND femaleNah. To be the absolute minority they'd need to be lesbians and midgets too.
Like you.
FuXnDajenariht
10-03-2005, 06:30 PM
black lesbian midgets. now thats ****in hot dude!! :D
i just wet myself again....
To each his own;
Moi prefer plus size or plumb and super models are match sticks for me.
An example would be the Lewvinsky with the hat.
:D
Do you know that everyone in Hollywood wants to a mom and then now everyone is starving to look like Paris?
:eek:
Dahmanegi
10-03-2005, 06:41 PM
lets keep this simple. if a word isn't offensive in a context like oriental cuisine or medicine then it isn't offensive. mmmkay?
now if someone says nig*** cuisine or music or just plain ol " honey, look at the nig' ". thats another story. you see the difference? no matter what your describing it'll still get your ass handed to you.
i hope that clears up your confusion.
Cuisine and medicine are different from people, and because of this others should be sensitive to the use of the word towards said people. I haven't proclaimed that the word oriental was a racist word, but it's a definately dated. By all means use the word to describe medicine, art, music, and what not...just don't describe me, or anyone else of asian decent, as oriental. Of course noone is perfect and we are all ignorant to different things, but make an attempt atleast. We don't go around calling people of African decent negroes anymore, so why are we still using the term Oriental for people of Asian decent?
Once again, this wasn't brought up to spark racist debate, and I appreciate those with a mature enough head to actually address the matter. Me bringing this up was more to inform more than anything else.
Scott R. Brown
10-03-2005, 08:48 PM
Hi Dahmanegi,
You are missing the point, so I will be more direct.
You are not the arbiter of appropriate speech! No one should care how you want to be called!
You are not the only Asian/Oriental on the planet. Those of us who are not of your ethnic origin should not have to interview every Asian/Oriental we meet to determine what words or appellations they find offensive. Not all of them care; this is because innocent, well meaning speech does not offend truly mature individuals. If it offends you to be called an Oriental that is your problem and your issue! Don’t project your issues onto the well meaning, but non-conforming people! They are not responsible to make you feel good about yourself or your ethnicity, you are responsible for yourself.
In short, quit whining about it! If you wish to enforce your narrow view on everyone else don’t be a hypocrite! You should treat everyone you meet with the same courtesy you expect from them. Ask every Black if they prefer to be called, Black, African-American, Afro-American or Negro! Ask every Hispanic if they want to be called Hispanic, Latino, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Mexican, etc. Ask every American Indian if they prefer to be called Sioux, Cherokee, Blackfoot, Mandan, Ute, Apache, etc. Ask every White person you meet if they want to be called White, European, French, German, Scot, Irish, Anglo, etc. As you can see to treat everyone with same expectation you have for yourself would be ridiculous and childish!! So how about growing up, get rid of the chip on your shoulder and learning to live with it like the rest of us have too!!
Dahmanegi
10-03-2005, 10:12 PM
LOL! I agree, you shouldn't have to ask everyone what they prefer to be called, but you've been missing MY point. Why not just call someone by an appropriate and correct term in the first place? Wouldn't that save a lot of trouble? Also, where do you get the idea that I am the only one who feels this way? Perhaps in this thread or on this forum, but I guarantee I'm not the only one. The issue obviously garners enough attention to be addressed in dictionarys, and it's supposed to be just me?
Scott R. Brown
10-04-2005, 02:37 AM
Hi Dahmanegi,
Well my point is:
Who made YOU and/or your friends and acquaintances the arbiters of “an appropriate and correct term”!! Terms are merely socially agreed upon conventions used for the purpose of communicating with one and other. They are highly fluid over time. They are conventions, artificial and ultimately meaningless until we give them meaning!! The term Oriental is offensive or inappropriate to YOU and your acquaintances only because you arbitrarily decided it to be so! So you are responsible for the fact it irritates or offends you, not the person who uses the term! It does not offend many or most Asians!!
As I have mentioned earlier my wife is of Malaysian and Chinese ethnicity (and possibly Spanish we are uncertain of that)! I also work with nearly 100 Asians and 20-30 Mexicans. I took a poll of the Asians, and the Mexicans too by the way! Every single one not only doesn’t care what they are called, they all thought it was a stupid question!! When I explained to them the circumstance behind my question they ALL laughed at you!! Because to them it is all the same thing, whether it is Oriental/Asian or Mexican/Hispanic/Latino!! So I am trying to say to you that your original statement, “The word "oriental" is derogatory towards Asian people” is a FALSE statement!! It is only how you have chosen to view the term and you are not the sole arbiter for the Asians of the world!!
Perhaps you believe it to be offensive because you were told it SHOULD be offensive!! You are still very young and if you have grown up in America you have grown up in a very P.C. society. If you live in America you have most likely attended P.C. schools or had P.C. teachers or universities professors telling you how you SHOULD think and feel. The P.C. police have a tendency to TELL minorities how they SHOULD feel about these sorts of things! I encourage you once again to drop the chip on your shoulder and lighten up!!
The people I have polled are all mature adults in their 30’s up to 60’s!! They don’t wear their ethnicity on their sleeve as a badge of oppression!! They are all proud of their ethnic heritage, but are not as overly sensitive as you clearly are!
A term is only derogatory if the person using it intends for it to be derogatory!! Don’t let the P.C. police control your attitudes about your ethnicity and if they don’t, then lighten and don’t be so arrogant as to think you speak for the Asian population of the world!! Recognize that it offends you because you have chosen for it to offend you, therefore you are responsible for your own feelings and not the persons who refer to Asians as Oriental!!
Our experiences are determined by our perspective and our perspective is determined by our social programming! At some level you have accepted the social programming that the term Oriental is derogatory. You have not thought to question the validity of this; therefore you are controlled by your social programming and are not really an independent thinker. When we automatically accept our social programming without question we are nothing more than sheep being led along by our noses. We are not independent individuals making our own determinations based upon reason and examination if we have not questioned our blindly accepted truths for their underlying truth or falsity!!
SimonM
10-04-2005, 09:12 AM
For me, race isn't a factor at all.
For the last little while the majority of my dating and courting has involved Chinese women.
For some reason Chinese women seem to think I'm handsome; go figure. ;)
I also happen to find asian eyes (and dark eyes in general) attractive and some Chinese women have very dark eyes.
Oh yeah, and I live in China. :p
Mr Punch
10-04-2005, 09:28 AM
For the last few years I've only dated Japanese women...
and where do I live?!
Try finding a foreigner over here who doesn't have a major complex or who isn't a wh0re, a hostess or both!
As for the oriental thing, I can see where Dahmanegi is coming from, but historically although it has the exotic connotation I fail to see how that is denigrating in any way... most of the time it seemed to be almost admiring. Plus, historically, it doesn't make the east the extreme... the expression occidental was used about Europeans and then later inclusive of the New World. That doesn't mean that we westerners were marginalised, it was simply as geographical simplification. I could maybe understand a complaint about 'Far Eastern' better.
Plus, sometimes it is handy to use the expression oriental to mean Chinese/Japanese/Korean as opposed to South East Asian which also would encompass Vietnam, Cambodia etc, or Asian, which conceivably could include Turkey and the Ukraine!
kejia nu ren
10-04-2005, 11:22 AM
lots of interesting perspectives here....after reading i may have to reconsider whether or not i would date a kung fu guy ;) i kid, i kid.
as an asian-american, i'm not offended by the term "oriental" unless, as scott mentioned it's intended connotation is derogatory, or just plain ignorant (currently living in the south, i've noticed a lot of people still use the term oriental, even though in US History we learn that it is considered politically incorrect - it probably just has to do with disparity in education..you can't blame people themselves for that, it's problems with educational standards). the term oriental arised out of European colonialism, deriving from the latin term "oriens" - sun rising in the east. Oriental became the descriptor for goods coming from the Far East countries..silk, rugs, spices, tea, and that included women. So, I think when Asians (mostly women) are offended by being called Oriental, it's because of the implication of these women being thought of and treated as products, mere sex objects..which is NOT cool, and the reason I am personally very alarmed by people with "asian fetishes". But, I believe there is a difference between someone who has an asian fetish (obsessed w/ all things "oriental" because of mystic/tantric/exotic connotation without even understanding or relating to asian culture/history) and someone who has an asian philia (someone who really enjoys studying asian history/culture and as a result, has a preference/tendency for stereotypical asian characteristics). unfortunately, most people i have encountered are of the 1st type, and not the latter. :(
i recently ended my first serious relationship with a guy who's white. before him, i dated some chinese guys, and those experiences didn't turn out well. i definitely had reservations about dating a white guy until i learned that he was not dating me BECAUSE of my ethnicity, but that my ethnicity (and knowledge of my culture) was one of the things he found very attractive about me.
when it comes down to it, i don't think you can categorize relationships so easily by race,gender, etc. people who are just following a trend i.e. the white guy asian girl or asian girl black guy phenomenon that some people observe, rather than finding personalities and traits that suit their own (regardless of race) will find themselves in very uncomfortable, and possibly dangerous situations. there's nothing worse than someone devaluing your attractiveness because you're "not acting asian" or "not acting white" etc etc.
Judge Pen
10-04-2005, 11:36 AM
i definitely had reservations about dating a white guy until i learned that he was not dating me BECAUSE of my ethnicity, but that my ethnicity (and knowledge of my culture) was one of the things he found very attractive about me.
I think and hope that is what my finacee' thinks about me. That's how I view myself, but I know that self-perception isn't always accurate.
SevenStar
10-04-2005, 01:47 PM
However within the context of this discussion it must be understood that words mean whatever any individual wants them to mean!
The offensiveness of the “N” word is due to the historical usage of the word to derogate the human quality of Blacks. The word has carried over its social offensiveness to this day, but it is only offensive within a specified context determined by the Politically Correct and the over sensitive! I am not saying the word is not still used to derogate Blacks and I do not intend to harp only on the “N” word. It is merely the most commonly understood term of derogation within American society and that is why I am using it as an example. Any word that is INTENDED to be derogatory should be considered an immature usage and it can be ANY WORD!! That is my point! “It is the intent of the person using the word that makes it derogatory, NOT the word in and of itself!!” Each social group seems to want to determine which words they want to be derogatory of them. This creates a mind set of victimhood, and is not a productive method of reaching social equality! If I take offense because another is derogatory of me, it says something about my maturity if I consider their words or opinion meaningful in my life. It also says something about the maturity of the person, but I am the one responsible for how I allow their words to affect me. I can't change the attitudes of other people, but I can change my own.
a couple of things here:
1. offensiveness is in the eye of the person on the receiving end of the remark. Two female friends may frequently refer to eachother as b1tch and hoe. Now, let a man call them that and see what happens...
2. that said, intent is everything. I know several blacks that don't care about ANYONE using the word in casual conversation. However, if it's used in an insulting manner, then they will get upset regardless.
3. this issue you refer to as 'racism' will NEVER be solved. Why? because it's not racism. You crossed more into the realm or social acceptance. You cannot dictate what people consider socially eacceptable, hence this issue will always remain. Heck, look at this forum. Let myself, MP, truewrestler or any other sport fighter refer to kung fu guys as dancers and see how sparks fly. However, I've seen several instances where other TMA guys here make such remarks and it's seen by all as a joke. Why? it's socially acceptable for you to joke like that amongst eachother, I suppose...
FuXnDajenariht
10-04-2005, 02:24 PM
i lapse sometimes, but i usually just tell myself that people are naturally retarded and irrational so i dont hafta try to figure them out. trust.....it makes life simple seven. ;)
lkfmdc
10-04-2005, 02:34 PM
One theory I heard is that white wimins as a whole tend to give it up faster than azn wimins...and are down with tryin the freaky stuff more.
That, my friend, would be a BOGUS theory :p
Scott R. Brown
10-04-2005, 03:02 PM
Hi SevenStar,
I respect your response, but have taken it a bit out of the context of my over all argument. It was merely an illustration used to demonstrate a point and not intended to be a blanket statement of actual factual events.
I agree that offensiveness can be in the eye of the recipient. But it is the individual who is responsible for their own feelings of being offended, not the offender. If we are to accept free speech in America then we must allow and fight for the right of others to have opposing and maybe distasteful views! Even if we don’t agree with them! So the question becomes, where do we draw the line? If it offends my culture that you wear striped pants should you avoid wearing them in my presence? Shall we take a vote to decide when and where EVERYTHING will be determined offensive and when it will not? Yes, it is social convention that determines appropriate behavior, but we live in an age where the P.C. Police want to determine for the rest of us ignorant masses what is acceptable and what is not! We must understand that these types of people are doing the exact thing they are fancying themselves to be defending against. They are arrogantly forcing their own limited worldview on the rest of us who don’t buy into their self-absorbed worldview!! They are hypocrites and intellectual fascists!
________________________________
I actually counted up the number of Asians I work with after I posted my guesstimated number of 100. It totals a little over 60. I counted the individuals on the posted work schedule! My wife (Once again, Chinese and Malaysian!) represents an immediate family of over 50 (I counted first this time, LOL, and I have personally met them all!). That is, family members who grew up in her immediate neighborhood and include Aunts, Uncles and first cousins only. Of the 60 Asians I work with I personally interact with about 40 of them. Of those 40 I have spoken personally to about 25 of them. I asked them whether they thought being referred to as Oriental was derogatory. None of the women found it derogatory. One male stated he found it derogatory. Three of the women stated they prefer to be called Asian, but do not take any offense at being called Oriental. A full 20 laughed at the question and found it childish to say it was a derogatory appellation. My wife was proud to be called an Oriental and was confident speaking for all her family stating none of them would find any offense of the word.
For simplicity's sake we can say that Orient means “the east”! Therefore Oriental connotes: “from the East”! From the east of what? The East of Europe! So what we have is a term that has been determined to be derogatory because is connotes a direction from a specific spot! Well now let me think here…… China is the Middle Kingdom and that is OK!! Japan is the land of The Rising Sun which basically symbolically means the ORIGIN and that is OK! But Europeans and Americans are not allowed to consider geographic locations from where they are located!! Why?? Because they were a bit more successful in their recent imperialism than the Chinese the Japanese, the Arabs, the Persians, Mongolians, Turks, and Huns all who have had imperialistic empires!! So apparently everyone can be ethnocentric, but the Europeans and the Americans!! Is that it? That sounds racist to me!! What is good enough for the gander is good enough for the goose!!
Now let’s explore who decided Oriental was derogatory. It was intellectuals from Europe and America. They decided on their own, apparently without discussing it with those poor ignorant people of Asia, that the term is derogatory. Then they decided to “educate” everyone that it is derogatory!! It is considered derogatory because intellectuals don’t want to be associated with European imperialism. They feel guilty about something that occurred in the past and want to appease their guilt by enforcing their self-flagellating views on the rest of us. They think they are being universal and superior to those others of the West who are ethno and geographically-centric!!
Hmmmm!! It sounds a lot like intellectual imperialism to me!! They use their “academic arrogance” to propagate intellectual fascism by socially enforcing their own worldview on everyone else! How hypocritical!!! “Let’s tell everyone what WE have determined to be proper language and socially enforce it using the P.C. police!!” (That is about as fascist as one can get.) “And all those poor Asians who don’t take offense from being called Oriental just don’t understand how oppressed they are by the term, so we must raise them up out of their ignorance to save them!!” Give me a F---ing break!!! They actually do what they criticize everyone else of doing.
So now a few here have decided that those Asians who do not take offense when referred to as Oriental are “just not educated enough” to know they have been insulted! How quaint and arrogant!!
As an example let’s consider Mr. Dahmanegi:
Mr. Dahmanegi is so outraged at the appellation “Oriental” he believe it appropriate to belittle johnyk another “Oriental” for not being smart enough to understand he is using a derogatory term! Oh yeah!! And johnyk doesn’t use spell check before he posts! What an idiot! Poor johnyk is just ignorant and uneducated!! But Mr. Dahmanegi is "smart, educated and wise"!! So Mr. Dahmanegi decided to bless poor johnyk with his exalted knowledge and save him from the depths of his ignorance! Mr. Dahmanegi will teach poor ignorant johnyk the error of his ways by publically belittling him for his innocent transgression!! Poor johnyk only wanted to discuss the fascination some Asian/Orientals have with Caucasian women, not be lectured too by the intellectually ignorant, I mean arrogant!!
So what we have learned from Mr. Dahmanegi is that it is derogatory and EVIL to call an Asian an Oriental, but it is ok to derogate someone because they are not as smart and sophisticated as HIM!!! Who is the arrogant A$$ here and who is the nice guy just wanting to have an interesting conversation about something he has observed in his daily life?
It is nothing other than the P.C. Police hypocrisy in action!
GeneChing
10-04-2005, 03:23 PM
So I was in this Berkeley, not SF mind you, and there was this Asian teenager who appeared gay with a t-shirt that said "Everyone loves Asian Boys". Oh man, that hurt my head. :eek:
MonkeySlap Too
10-04-2005, 03:52 PM
Seven has beaten down the correct of people relations.
Scott R. Brown
10-04-2005, 04:47 PM
Hi SevenStar, continued
Racism is the discrimination of a person based on their race. Sexism is discrimination of a person based upon their sex. If I cannot use the “N” word because I am White and a Black may because he is Black that fits the definition of Racism regardless of whether I may actually use the term in some social circumstances! It is only racism when I am not allowed to use the term. I am speaking of a non-derogatory usage here! If I use the “N” word as a derogatory term, then I am the racist! If a woman may call her friend a B*tch or a Ho, but a man may not, that fits the definition of sexism, not racism. The man may not use the terms merely because he is a man. This is undeniably sexism regardless of whether or not the terms are socially acceptable for a man to use or not!! These examples are clearly double standards regardless of the social acceptance of the context in which the terms are decided by OTHERS to be appropriate.
If a man calls his wife his “B*tch” and intends it to be a term of endearment and does not intend for it to be derogatory then it is not derogatory to HIM or his WIFE if she accepts it as a term of endearment, regardless of what society (read P.C. Police) dictates!
In the late 60’s and early 70’s it was common for romantic couples to refer to one and other as “My Old Man” or “My Old Lady”!! I personally considered these appellations terms of derision and not terms of endearment. However, within a certain spectrum of society it was considered appropriate and inoffensive. I did not take it upon myself to “educate” this “ignorant” spectrum of society in the error of their ways. I simply did not engage in such behavior myself and allowed them to define their own social terms for themselves.
It is not my intention to change society. I don’t care what society does in general terms. But neither do I automatically allow the terms of my life to be defined by the P.C. Police without examination of the validity of their social LAWS of behavior. They are not the arbiters of other people’s lives and neither am I! Neither do I take responsibility for the over sensitivity of the Babies or Children of the world who wield their feelings of oppression like a weapon to assault well meaning others with!
It is not my responsibility to be sensitive to the feelings of every person on the planet or figure out every possible little thing that might remotely offend someone. At some point individuals must grow up and take responsibility for their own feelings!
Ou Ji
10-04-2005, 05:21 PM
as an asian-american, i'm not offended by the term "oriental" unless, as scott mentioned it's intended connotation is derogatory, or just plain ignorant (currently living in the south, i've noticed a lot of people still use the term oriental, even though in US History we learn that it is considered politically incorrect - it probably just has to do with disparity in education..you can't blame people themselves for that, it's problems with educational standards). the term oriental arised out of European colonialism, deriving from the latin term "oriens" - sun rising in the east. Oriental became the descriptor for goods coming from the Far East countries..silk, rugs, spices, tea, and that included women. So, I think when Asians (mostly women) are offended by being called Oriental, it's because of the implication of these women being thought of and treated as products, mere sex objects..which is NOT cool, and the reason I am personally very alarmed by people with "asian fetishes". But, I believe there is a difference between someone who has an asian fetish (obsessed w/ all things "oriental" because of mystic/tantric/exotic connotation without even understanding or relating to asian culture/history) and someone who has an asian philia (someone who really enjoys studying asian history/culture and as a result, has a preference/tendency for stereotypical asian characteristics). unfortunately, most people i have encountered are of the 1st type, and not the latter. :(
Wow, that was deep.
Intellectual chicks are hot!
SimonM
10-04-2005, 08:24 PM
As if anyone has the right to stand on a pedestal and judge and/or define another, especially based on such shallow terms.
"So and so is attractive. So and so is not. I have spoken. So let it be written. So let it be done." Geesh. :rolleyes:
Which is why I always preface these statements with "I find" or "I feel". Everyone finds certain traits attractive and certain traits un-attractive. Even if a person finds personality to be much more important than appearance (as I do) the chances are that their immediate first reaction to someone will be a response to that person's visual presentation. Some elements of these the person can control (clothes) some they can not (the colour of their skin - and don't cite Michael Jackson at me!) and like it or not all of these factors will unconsciously effect a person's initial reaction. This becomes an unhealthy thing when a person begins to generalize saying that "all" or even "most" people are a certain way because of their visual characteristics.
The variety of the human experience betrays any attempt to generalize people so. You can not fairly say anything about most black people, asians, white people, men, women, goths, ravers, punks, whatever because within any of those groups you will find people who have lead vastly varied lives.
So to a certain extent I agree with you Mel but at the same time I disagree. There isn't anything inherently wrong with finding certain traits (physical mental or social) attractive or un-attractive. It's when you allow your preferences to blind you to the reality of a person that this becomes a bad thing.
Wow, that was deep.
Intellectual chicks are hot!
You mean, intellectual ASIAN chicks are hot.
asiaphile!! :rolleyes:
Simon, I don't think there's anything wrong with finding certain traits attractive or unattractive. We all have our opinions, of course, to which we are entitled. What I do find offensive is when one group of people decide to define (for example) what "attractive" or "unattrative" is, and then force those definitions upon another group of people, sometimes tearing that group apart for having the "nerve" to not fit into their narrow confines.
Opinions are all very fine and well, and we could not live without them. Indeed, we would not be able to make sense of our world without them. But when opinions become a weapon to derogate and define another group, and to designate members of that group as either "A" or "B" with no other options allowed, and that group has no say as to what the definitions are, then I do begin to have a problem. I suppose it can come down to the difference between the words "opinion" and "judgment." I have many opinions, as do we all, and that is fine. But if I were to begin to judge another person or group, often using derogatory terms about their bodies and dispositions in my judgment, then I have crossed into another territory entirely.
The very fact that an entire group of people (for the most part) seems to think they have a god-given right (when they think about it at all--it comes that natural) to define and pick apart another group and to subject that group to oftentimes excruciating analysis, speaks volumes about our society.
SimonM
10-05-2005, 04:07 AM
Opinions are all very fine and well, and we could not live without them. Indeed, we would not be able to make sense of our world without them. But when opinions become a weapon to derogate and define another group, and to designate members of that group as either "A" or "B" with no other options allowed, and that group has no say as to what the definitions are, then I do begin to have a problem.
You know what Mel: based on that statement I don't think we actually disagree at all about the core issue. :D
Golden Tiger
10-05-2005, 05:20 AM
it is ok to derogate someone because they are not as smart and sophisticated
I did not take it upon myself to “educate” this “ignorant” spectrum of society in the error of their ways.
It sounds a lot like intellectual imperialism to me!! They use their “academic arrogance” to propagate intellectual fascism by socially enforcing their own worldview on everyone else!
not be lectured too by the intellectually ignorant, I mean arrogant!!
Dear God man, do you ever read what you are spewing? Here you are ranting on a person for not wanting to be refered to in what HE terms a "derogatory"way. Are you trying to use your superior intellect to tell him he is wrong for thinking the way he does? Perhaps you would like him to think the way you do (see quote 3).
I made a joke the other day about you being a nurse and you got your panties all in a wad over it. Heck, even made me fill a little bad for saying it. Then you come down on this guy for expressing his opinion by saying "f-you oriental boy, I'll can call you what I want because I reject all that is PC!"
Dude, go change a bed pan or something. And stop calling him ORIENTAL!
Scott R. Brown
10-05-2005, 09:51 AM
Hi Golden_Tiger,
I have a better idea! How about you read the entire thread to understand what is going on before you decide to jump into the middle of something you don’t understand and take phrases out of their intended and proper context! It is more productive if you understand the conversation from the beginning and make an effort to follow the overall point!
I am NOT ranting on Mr. Dahmanegi for not wanting to be called an Oriental!! I am ranting on him of refusing to allow other Asians to call themselves Oriental. You either did not read the whole thread or did not pay close enough attention. I know I have the tendency to be overly wordy. So I will attempt to give a synopsis.
Here is the story:
Mr. Dahmanegi began by belittling the originator of this thread, Mr. johnyk another Asian, for calling himself an Oriental.
Here is the progression of the conversation:
Mr. johnyk:
“Hi, I am part oriental and part white. It seems to me that every Oriental guy I know is after a white girl. Is there something to it. I have friends who are Cambodian, Thigh, Vietnamese, Karean all want a white women. Is there a trend like that. One of the sponsors www.worldcombatdating.com has men of different origins, but mostly white girls. What is up with that.”
Mr. Dahmanegi’s response:
“The word "oriental" is derogatory towards asian people, and so is your spelling.”
You will note the derogatory tone Mr. Dahmanegi uses to address Mr. johnyk! He does not want to be referred to by what he considers to be a derogatory term, yet feels free to be derogatory himself to correct Mr. johnyk, himself an Asian. So it is apparently appropriate to be derogatory to protest derogation! A bit too hypocritical don’t you think?
I made a rather light hearted response to the BB in general without actually addressing Mr. Dahmanegi by name. My intent was to address the relative meaning of words and the ridiculous results of being over sensitive. I further explained that a derogatory word is in the eye of the beholder!
I posted:
“Well personally I think it IS derogatory to be called a Caucasian. I am not from the Caucasus and neither are any of my ancestors. Further, being called White is derogatory too!! I am not white skinned, but more of a pinkish brown! So stop it now before I get really MAD and cry!!!!
I prefer to be called a Scotish, German, Dutch, French, Cherokee American!! Cuz that is what I AM!!!!
And my wife is neither Asian nor Oriental! She is a Malaysian, Chinese, Filipino, Spanish soon to be American.
On a serious note:
Actually anyone east of Europe can be considered an Asian and those called Asian are actually Oriental if they are from south of the Himalayas, including the Malay Archipelago as far south as the Philippines! So actually Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Mongolian are not Orientals at all by the descriptive term, but are Asian. But also Arabs, Persians and Indians are technically Asians as well!
The source of derogation is from the intent or attitude of the individual and not the words they choose. The word chosen is only derogatory if the user intends to derogate with the word. If the word user means no offense or does not intend to be derogatory and the hearer takes offense it merely reveals their own immaturity and low self-esteem!”
Mr. Dahmanegi then wrote, apparently continuing to address either myself, Mr. johnyk or both of us:
“Sure I may lack a little something for taking offense in the word, but this is the modern era, and the connotation behind the word is offensive. Oriental is an old fashioned word and for you to be using it in the first place and to... a.) be of half asian decent, and/or b.) be posting on this forum, shows your immaturity and ignorance. Still don't believe me? Check your dictionary, if it's not dated, it will often times list it as an offensive word. If you're lazy, here is a section from www.dictionary.com that explains why "asian" is the preferred word to use nowadays.”
Later he posts:
“…just don't describe me, or anyone else of asian decent, as oriental.”
You will note Mr. Dahmanegi’s condescending tone once again! My previous post does state that it is immature for an individual to take offense when no offense is intended. And I believe this to be true. Mr. johnyk meant no offense and as an Asian he is not offend by calling himself an Oriental and neither are the vast majority of the Asians I know including my own wife! So what if Mr. Dahmanegi cares, that is not the issue here. The issue is Mr. johnyk’s, my friends’, my wife’s and any other Asian’s right to refer to themselves anyway they choose. Mr. Dahmanegi does not speak for all Asians! He is one person, who is a bit over-sensitive, attempting to impose his standards of behavior on everyone else! Especially other Asians!!
It is not Mr., Dahmanegi’s place to derogate Mr. johnyk because he chooses not to conform to Mr. Dahmanegi’s standards! Mr. johnyk (and any other Asian) may call himself an Oriental if he chooses, just as Mr. Dahmanegi may call himself an Asian! The fact that being called an Oriental is offensive to Mr. Dahmanegi is his own problem and his own responsibility. No one MADE him be offended! He chose to be offended!
If you had read more completely you would have noted my wife is Asian and I work with numerous Asians whom I polled to see if they found the term Oriental offensive! The resounding reply was NO!!!!!!!!! Only one I interviewed found it offensive and 20 of the others found it laughable to be offended by the term. My wife is happy to be called an Oriental and confidently stated no one else in her rather close family would be offended! The reason I posted the results of my poll was to give some validity to my thesis that Mr. Dahmanegi is being overly sensitive concerning this term and it is offensive to him because he either decided for himself to be offended or perhaps he was told he should be offended by others. In which case he is being a blind follower and not thinking for himself! Mr. Dahmanegi certainly has the right to be offended if he chooses, but he does not have the right to force his opinion onto other Asians who do not find offense with the term.
If we are to assume that it is permissible for Blacks to refer to themselves by the “N” word and as SevenStar believes, that women may refer to each other as B*itch and Ho, then to avoid hypocrisy we must allow Mr. johnyk and any other Asians to choose to refer to themselves as an Oriental as well, don’t we??
Another problem I have with this is that Mr. Dahmanegi chose to be derogatory in response when no offense was intended. It would be different if offense was intended! He behaves as if he is the P. C. Police! It is a bit too arrogant and I called him on it! If you don’t like it tough luck! You already know I have little respect for your limited knowledge of anything! It is true I am using derogation to criticize derogation, however if you had taken the time to read and or understand the entire flow of the conversation you would have noted that it only occurred in my later postings! I began by attempting to be light hearted and then more explanatory! I attempted to be reasonable, but as should be evident, some people do not respond to reasonable argument! Oh well!! That is life! Feel free not to read what I post if you don’t like it! If you chose to comment please make more of an effort to follow the whole conversation before you participate! Your responses will then have more meaning!
Golden Tiger
10-05-2005, 11:15 AM
Do me a favor Nurse Scotty, look up the word "succinct" and get back to me. No need for a complete dissertation on the impact of derogatory language in the 21th century.
lord have mercy, you are as windy as a retirement home after soup bean night!
Scott R. Brown
10-05-2005, 11:23 AM
Hi Golden Tiger,
Just like you to ridicule when you can't formulate a cohesive argument!!
Like I said, " If you don't like it. don't read it!!!
Succinct enough for you?
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-05-2005, 12:00 PM
lord have mercy, you are as windy as a retirement home after soup bean night!
haha
*points and laughs*
Some observations:
First, up until a few years ago, I was not aware of the "Asian" vs. "Oriental" issue. However, when it was pointed out to me, it was no big thing to use the word "Asian" in all cases to simply avoid any possibility of indavertently offending someone.
Second, from the "Asians" I know (like my wife), she rarely uses either word. In fact, the only place she may is on those forms that have a Race or Ethnic group listing.
For her (and other "Asians" I know) she is CHINESE. More to the point if you get further into that, she is ABC (American Born Chinese) AND FIRST generation. Others are Vietnamese, Korean, etc.... Such distinctions are more to the point for identity and culture than either of the other two words.
All in all, if it makes no big deal one way or another to you...and you can use a word that will NEVER offend and you know it, not to do so is probably you being lazy or simply inflexible.
Scott R. Brown
10-05-2005, 02:51 PM
Your point is well made, however it still misses the issue!
I never said I refer to Asians as Oriental and to be factual I never have! I merely support Mr. johnyk's and my wife’s and any other Asian’s right to refer to themselves as Oriental without suffering censure from the ignorant, socially indoctrinated few! Asians have the right to call themselves Oriental if they want too!
I refer you to my previous comment:
If we are to assume that it is permissible for Blacks to refer to themselves by the “N” word and as SevenStar believes, that women may refer to each other as B*itch and Ho, then to avoid hypocrisy we must allow Mr. johnyk and any other Asians to choose to refer to themselves as an Oriental as well, don’t we??
One of the points I previously made is that at some point this whining over how we will refer to each as a races becomes ridiculous!
When I was a child Blacks wanted to be called Negro, then Afro-American, then, African American, now Black!! Mexicans were first simply called Mexican, then Hispanic, and now Latino! It is those with a political agenda and the intellectual elites that create an issue out of these terms. The average mature educated person on the street doesn’t care unless they are told they are supposed to care by the ignorant and socially indoctrinated few!
I hope I am still being succinct!! ;)
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-05-2005, 03:01 PM
you know ... i like you scott ... and i agree with a lot of what you are saying .... but anyone who is agruing with you must feel like tony little is attacking them with exclamation points!!
Scott R. Brown
10-05-2005, 03:05 PM
Hi GDA,
I confess a love of the exclamation!! (and Wordy Posts!! If you think you hate them try living with them in your mind!!:D )
I have heard this commment before, LOL!!!!
I will repeat my last response!!
If you need some feel free to take some!! :D
Exclamation Bin:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take all you need!! I got lots of 'em!!
Miss Asia 2005 (http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/031805koreajapanisle/im:/051004/482/xkc10310041603;_ylt=Atx.XOsQ0gCWquBFz.VlpsHBaMYA;_ ylu=X3oDMTA5bGcyMWMzBHNlYwNzc25hdg--?sp=6000)
To each his own.
:D
yutyeesam
10-05-2005, 09:59 PM
perhaps this can shed some light:
http://www.asianguy.com/ohno/ohno.html
SimonM
10-06-2005, 04:44 AM
That was funny--lol!
Makes me glad that I live on my own, have an exciting life, don't ever talk about video games on a date, turn my cell phone off on a date and am always willing to spend... ;)
I know white guys who behave exactly the same. :p
TaiChiBob
10-06-2005, 05:29 AM
Greetings..
Racial and cultural pride has left almost as many corpses in its wake as religion, maybe more.. The only purpose in racial references is to introduce some sort of prejudice, well intended or not, into the conversation.. we can't avoid cultural or racial references due to the nature of our discussions, but.. we can choose to ignore the prejudice associated with those remarks.. those that would incite negative emotions are easily neutralized by being deprived of the emotional response they desire..
I will be blunt, for a moment.. many years ago i was nearly court martialed for this incident: after a particularly fierce battle we were cleaning up the mess and making our "body count".. there was a badly mutilated body in a US uniform receiving proper attention when it was discovered that the person was Asian.. A Master Sergeant exclaimed, "dump it, it's just a *****".. unfortunately, my compassion and temper merged into a shove that knocked him down as i screamed "WTF!! he's no different than you or me".. the MS severely bruised his tailbone, but my buddies stood up for me and it was passed.. ( i got some really crap duties after that, though ).. the point is this, if all you see is the image of the person, you have missed the real person completely.. like thinking you know what the book contains by looking at the cover.. before we are indoctrinated with racial or cultural prejudices we are just children of the same family, the family of humans.. that should be the only concern, that we are ALL humans.. each with the right to be here and deserving of equal respect.. Call me what you wish, i know who and what i am.. i am not offended nor will i argue about someone's perception of me.. now, if that perception is founded on harmful intent i may have an appropriate response..
To engage someone in conflicted conversation over race or culture empowers the conflict.. without the conflict, the belief has no fuel.. speak the truth clearly once, and let the the poorly conceived notions of others die in their desperate attempts diminish that truth.. endless debates trying to assert the validity of a truth calls its validity to question, truth spoken once clearly has no equal..
Be well..
Model (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-10/05/content_3584197.htm)
Culture and upbring do play a role on min or wimmin and how they express themself.
Wimmin and min both care about how they look and how people see them.
I wish I have the figure of a movie star, model, fitness teacher etc. Diet, workout, visits to hydrotherapy, cream/botox to reduce wrinkle, BBQ under the white sun to get tanned and skin cancer, work on bicept and six pack tummies etc.
Plastice surgery, nose job, thigh job, tuck this and that, piercing, tatooing etc.
Now several young stars all look as thin as Paris?
Smoothness in dating.
Why not be your self and be comfortable with your self first. Let your date know you as who your really are.
You being you. Genetic (born or created by God), upbring, culture etc these are all makeups of you.
You may look thin, fit, tanned, six packed tummies like models on the cover of min or wimmin mag.
What is you beyond the cover?
:confused:
Mr Punch
10-06-2005, 09:05 AM
Smoothness in dating. You called?
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-06-2005, 11:01 AM
one time i peed on a fire hydrant in front of a very busy and expensive chinese resturaunt. lifted up one leg and all.
they could all see me out the windows but no one laughed.
i thought it was funny as hell though.
Gunned Down, you have an atrocious mind.:eek:
greensage22
10-06-2005, 04:12 PM
I guess the easiest answer is: the grass is always greener or the other side.
white guy, with yellow fever
kejia nu ren
10-06-2005, 04:23 PM
Wow, that was deep.
Intellectual chicks are hot!
You mean, intellectual ASIAN chicks are hot.
asiaphile!! :rolleyes:
LOLz point well made..and, um, thanks, i think.....
http://www.asianguy.com/ohno/ohno.html
this was funny - I identified 80% of the traits in past Asian guys I've dated...but I also know White guys who fit these descriptions as well, so..maybe it's safest to not date, period. :mad: And there's NOTHING wrong with playing video games as an adult! Just ask my desperately single-never had a girlfriend-tech geek-31 year old brother! *giggles* :rolleyes:
Ou Ji
10-06-2005, 04:27 PM
I'm shallow, like Hal, I just like their looks.
Acrtually I'm prejudice, against fat people. I realize it's a genetic problem with some but there's just way too much fat running around the US these days.
Fat kids too. Not 'husky' but fat. It's gross, unhealthy and an eyesore. So how many fat asians do you see around?
Overall they just look better to me.
BTW, oriental chicks are hot.
*The last comment was paid for by the PC Is BullSheit Association and the I Don't Give A Rats Ass What You Think Committee.
FooFighter
10-06-2005, 07:15 PM
This is a very offensive tread and some of the comments were offensive as well. Asian women should not be a fetish- in fact no race should be a fetish. You can not make grand sweeping statements as truths. It is not okay to call people orientals like you do not call African Americans "colored". The author making a general statement all asian men are after white women does not speak for all asian men.
SimonM
10-06-2005, 07:15 PM
Gunned Down, you have an atrocious mind.:eek:
Well he does like pee. Sorry GDA, I'm not going to let you live that one down. :D
Why am I still posting in this thread?
Oh, we are talking about the type of girl or guy you like and how to make connections or the right way to date or make connections.
there may be a fine for people peepee outside of the public bathroom.
I heard that in certain country, it is ok to pee wherever you want. it is considered a natural thing to do.
Personally, I like tall girls and plus size. but not grossly overweight.
The best girl for you may not be for me and vice versa.
so to each his own.
i am repeating.
oops.
:D
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-06-2005, 07:52 PM
Well he does like pee. Sorry GDA, I'm not going to let you live that one down. :D
hell dude its a true story. and far from one of my worst.
i dont mean to sound proud of it but i kinda am. couldn't do anything like that after becoming a parent, but it doesnt stop me from appreciating some of the **** i could no longer pull off.
[edit] ....wait ... did i previously say something about liking pee that im forgetting?
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-06-2005, 08:02 PM
Acrtually I'm prejudice, against fat people.
i always think of myself as one of the most anti prejudice people i know until someone points that out. i work with 2 guys who are over 500lbs and its not like i dont respect them .... they are both insanely intelligent and hell i like em both.
but i cant deny that i think its weak, very weak, for anyone to not only let that happen to themselves but to then accept that as their lot in life. these guys dont, but hell some people even think they should have special privlages like they are "disabled."
SimonM
10-06-2005, 08:08 PM
i always think of myself as one of the most anti prejudice people i know until someone points that out. i work with 2 guys who are over 500lbs and its not like i dont respect them .... they are both insanely intelligent and hell i like em both.
but i cant deny that i think its weak, very weak, for anyone to not only let that happen to themselves but to then accept that as their lot in life. these guys dont, but hell some people even think they should have special privlages like they are "disabled."
I'm fat.
I had a very rough time of things during my childhood and teenage years. The end result? I spent a lot of time at home not doing much because I had few friends and my response to the resultant depression was to eat. If you eat and don't exercise you get fat.
Then I went to art school. I still never really exercised and I added drinking too much every weekend.
So I hit about 350 lbs and decided it was time to do something about it.
I still eat a bit too much but now I exercise. I'm still fat and I am not a fan of running but I can do a 2 hour Gong Fu class without collapsing. I can go five rounds in a boxing ring and still keep my guard up. I am also between 75 and 100 lbs lighter than I used to be. So I have gotten about half-way back to fit. Give me another three years. ;)
SimonM
10-06-2005, 08:11 PM
I like pee.
I believe you said it in one of Mega_Fist's threads...
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-06-2005, 08:13 PM
350 is starting pushing it but 250 isn't. depending on your height i guess.
please keep in perspective that we aren't talking about chunky people here. hell a little meat on your bones is probably 10 times healthier than the image everyone strives for. im not saying fat guys are weak ... ive done manual labor with too many to know better.
but there's a not so fine like between chunky - fat and morbidly obeise. and more and more people seem to want to cross it.
IronFist
10-06-2005, 08:21 PM
one time i peed on a fire hydrant in front of a very busy and expensive chinese resturaunt. lifted up one leg and all.
they could all see me out the windows but no one laughed.
i thought it was funny as hell though.
I haven't really been following this thread, but that was hilarious.
GunnedDownAtrocity
10-06-2005, 09:02 PM
hehe ... the funny thing is i eat there all the time now.
im glad they dont remember me from 10 years ago. then they might pee in my food. well hell ... i wonder if they do remember me and just arent saying anything.
travelsbyknight
10-06-2005, 09:21 PM
When I was in college all I noticed were racial cliques. Black americans with other black americans, nigerians all hanging out, chinese clubs, japanese clubs, an irish club, greeks hanging out(not fake fraternity greeks, but greeks from Greece). The list goes on and on. If they video taped a day a day at my college you'd see me walking around outside of all of these groups shaking my head in disapproval.
I'm an asian guy...but I don't like asian chicks. Racism? Maybe. Preference? Hell ya. I've never pictured myself with an asian chick. White chicks? Hell ya. Black chicks? **** yeah. European chicks? Hell fukin yeah!
Am I going to hell for "going against my own kind"? Who cares!
This is probably getting waay to personal with all of you. I feel very uncomfortable around large groups of asian people. I avoid large groups of asians like the plague.
Ok, Father, may I be forgiven for my sins?
There was a Xiao Lin temple near Foo Zhou. Not Shaolin, plz.
The teacher asked 2 young student monks.
What color do you like?
Monk A said I like blue. The sky is blue. The deep ocean is blue.
Monk B said I like green. The tree is green. The mountain is green.
The teacher monk said. Yes. very good. Look at the rainbow stretching from the blue lake, green mountain all the way up to the blue sky.
The student monks were both confused. they were debating why my color is better than yours.
I was a guest. I said that. Yes, teacher. All the colors make up the world.
What do you like SPJ?
Blue.
And what do you like?
:D
Scott R. Brown
10-07-2005, 12:17 AM
I understand how frustrating and depressing it can get, but the important thing is you did something about it!
And now you got the babes following you in China!:cool:
I am a fan of your China blog. Plz keep going i miss it when you dont have any new adventures to share!:)
SimonM
10-07-2005, 08:35 AM
:D You like me! You really like me!:D
I'll keep trying to have new adventures to keep you guys all entertained about. I've been meticulously telling everyone I know about my blog so I can hardly stop now.
SPJ, I wonder how many people have tastes like yours. Every time I see a model on a catwalk, I cringe. You can see almost every bone of their skeleton! And yet, that's supposed to be "beautiful." I always say, "Someone has got to get that girl a pizza!"
Ou Ji
10-07-2005, 10:27 AM
I get a kick out of how nowadays human nature is viewed as an ailment. If you prefer asian women you have an unhealthy asian fixation. If you don't like being around asians you're racist.
If you like to fight (nobody here like that huh?) you have a violent streak. For some reason all these things have deep rooted psychological failings. Something that needs behavior correction.
Political Correctness is taking the human out of human being.
I still think asian girls are some of the prettiest in the world. Deal with it.
FuXnDajenariht
10-07-2005, 02:35 PM
and i still think any girl that'll tolerate my ass is the prettiest in the world...
lol to each his own..
zip it up and zip it out.
SimonM
10-07-2005, 04:46 PM
If you like to fight (nobody here like that huh?) you have a violent streak. For some reason all these things have deep rooted psychological failings. Something that needs behavior correction.\
Me caveman, like smash! ;)
To each his own.
Goldilock and 3 bears.
The chair too big, too small and just right.
The soup too hot, too cold and just right.
The bed too hard, too soft and just right.
Granted you may LOL at to each his and her own.
since it is to each his own.
my own is that it make some senses.
And so is the story of the Goldilock.
:D
FuXnDajenariht
10-07-2005, 10:42 PM
its does make sense bro.
im just laughing cuz at the end of the day most guys type is the type that'll give em some tail. :D
GeneChing
09-29-2010, 09:19 AM
I could barely get my head around this iPhone app. It had to be shared with you all.
Design Your Dream Asian Girl (http://ax.itunes.apple.com/app/id390208184?mt=8) By Spendthrift Studios
solo1
09-29-2010, 10:05 AM
Not being attracted to some women is not racism.
You are just not attracted. Do I have to have sex with all the black women, in order to prove that I am not a racists.
sorry i couldnt resist this: " Do I have to have sex with all the black women, in order to prove that I am not a racists" ?
No and you dont have do vote for a black guy to prove your not racist either. just saying.
David Jamieson
09-29-2010, 10:37 AM
I could barely get my head around this iPhone app. It had to be shared with you all.
Design Your Dream Asian Girl (http://ax.itunes.apple.com/app/id390208184?mt=8) By Spendthrift Studios
wow, talk about superficial! lol
David Jamieson
09-29-2010, 10:37 AM
sorry i couldnt resist this: " Do I have to have sex with all the black women, in order to prove that I am not a racists" ?
No and you dont have do vote for a black guy to prove your not racist either. just saying.
TO really prove you're not racist, you have to have sex with a fish.
Badger
09-29-2010, 10:57 AM
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb87/henrytea/Yukie-Kawamura_5.jpg (http://www.blingcheese.com)
I dont see how you can only focus one one group fo women there are so many good looking ones in all the races:D
MasterKiller
09-29-2010, 01:21 PM
Seriously. They're all pink on the inside.
Lucas
09-29-2010, 01:53 PM
my favorite kind of women is the hot one i happen to be 'talking' with at the time.
really though, each ethnic background of women have their own special qualities. imo. some of these are simply cultural, and a great many are physical.
some girls got the great badunkadunk and some dont. some color of chicks have a way better chance of having this great treat, but it can also be found across the board.
i mean if you were into fair skin, lots of freckle and a flaming attitude, you have to narrow down your search quite a bit.
in america you have a few illustrious breeds that may seem much more rare, as the opportunity to meet these creatures is much less common. for example not many cultures can compete with the supreme ladilikeness of a beautifully educated iranian/persian woman.
who needs bird watching...
David Jamieson
09-29-2010, 03:38 PM
Seriously. They're all pink on the inside.
If you hump them, do they not squeal?
really, if they aren't then maybe be a bit more cunning about it. :D
dirtyrat
09-29-2010, 04:41 PM
If you hump them, do they not squeal?
really, if they aren't then maybe be a bit more cunning about it. :D
Well said! You're a cunning linquist.
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