Top wc fighters in the world

[schwarzdragon]

I studied under Sifu (Master) John Clayton in Baltimore, Maryland. To me, he is an awesome fighter. His hands are very fast and he can kick quickly either high or low. Personally, I've never seen anyone beat him at chi sao. We used to dread going up against him in free sparing on Saturday afternoons. I've seen some of the Sifu's that he's trained over the past few years, and many of them are excellent fighters, too. Still, I cast my vote for my Sifu as one of the top wc fighters in the world. Could someone list some other top fighters for my edification?

[anerlich]

Rick Spain.

[sihing]

I think most of us would have the tendency to mention our respective Sifu's as the top fighters, this is a given, so I will include mine, Sifu Brian Lewadny (I haven't seen anyone better yet, IMO). Also I would like to mention that there are probably a ton of UNKNOWNS out there that are not into gaining fame or a name for themselves. These are the ones that train and/or thinking about the art all the time and are basically obsessed with it for a variety of reasons.

The topic for this thread is more in line with a popularity contest, and if this is the case then Boztepe would probably be the one mentioned the most since he is a very famous instructor and fighter, from what is said about him and reviews of his teaching attributes. I have lots of his tapes and such and believe he is very skilled at what he does, and it is apparent also that he can actually use it. A rare combination to be a teacher and fighter, but nowadays I believe he is more teaching than anything. IMO there are a rarefied group of individuals out there in the Martial Arts world that can be considered "the Best", with no one individual claiming Top Dog status. It would be awesome someday to have the top WC Sifu's/Fighters together and talk shop (not fight necessarily but compare and discuss Wing Chun concepts/principals). I know I would love to see my Sifu and Sifu Garrett Gee in a room together or Boztepe also and see what topics of conversations arise. If they were to fight only, someone for sure would be killed or seriously injured, so what would be the purpose behind that. Sparring IMO also would be a waste of time, as this is not the intent behind the art. Fighting without proper intensity and intention is not the key thing to fighting effectiveness.

James

[Ultimatewingchun]

Got to get involved in this...LOL.... :cool:

Imo, the best TWC fighters are, in alphabetical order...

Anthony Arnett
Johnny Clayton
Keith Mazza
Joe Moahengi
Shannon Moore
Joe Sayah
Rick Spain

[anerlich]

If they were to fight only, someone for sure would be killed or seriously injured,

I dunno ... the last couple of highly publicised times this actually happened, the results were extremely anticlimactic. It's debatable whether anyone actually got hurt at all other than blows to the ego.

I've heard of a couple of well-known Australian Sifus originally from HK, who got into a fight after a war of words, and one went to hospital, but the loser was back teaching again PDQ afterwards, and still is.

Other than that, James, you are quite right.

[lawrenceofidaho]

To me, the word fighter, means competitive full-contact fighter or MMA fighter. Chi-sau top dog (chi-sau is only a game, after all), or survivor of a few street fights (against out-of-shape drunks at a pub) does not qualify one as fighter IMO. You need to face skilled & conditioned opposition in as realistic competition as possible (i.e. - full contact or NHB rules).

As many wing chun people as there are in the world, only a small percentage of them meet my definition of a fighter.

The most well known were all competitive in Kickboxing / Muay Thai: Rick Spain, Gary Lam, and Emin Boztepe.

Someone many of you might not be as familiar with is WT / Escrima expert Michael Casey. (He appears in about 90% of Emin Boztepe's videos.) He was a German national kickboxing champion before moving to the USA in the late 90's to teach Wing Tsun professionally. -The Boise gang was fortunate enough to have him come up from California and train with us on a few occasions since then....... (Pictured standing next to me in the black shirt.)

He is currently teaching in the Los Angeles area:
http://www.santamonicaselfdefense.com/

-Lawrence

[sihing]

Yes, I've heard of Michael Casey, from the Boztepe camp. I've also seen him in the videos. You can tell the guy is in good shape, and from my impression, it is reasonable to assume that Boztepe would make damm sure that his top guys were ready and capable of fighting. I remember on one of Boztepe's older tapes when he was getting interviewed, he said that to the average person learning WC they only have to know how to get out of things and quickly attack and then run, strictly self defense per say. But about people like himself, as he put it "PROFESSIONAL MARTIAL ARTIST", they should know more details about their system have more skill and know about their competition also. I believe this to be true also.

Concerning the MMA people, well firstly you have to give them credit for going in there and putting it on the line. Secondly, they are the only ones right now that are able to prove they have this or that amount of skill or ability in the fighting realm, as they are putting it on the line on a regular basis. But to say that no one else can be classified as a fighter is not correct IMO. Lots of things happen out there in the world everyday, and as long as you are able to use what you know in a real live environment then you are a "fighter" per say, whether it is against scrubs or guys that have experience. On the street, even though they may be scrubs, the environment is different and totally based on much less information than in a MMA event. In MMA events you know about your opponent before hand and can adapt your training likewise. Some guys are grapplers and some are strikers and some are both, so you can adapt this to your training and go in to the fight with a strategy, this is not the case on the street. So therefore you have to adapt while in the process of dealing with the situation, which might include weapons and more than one opponent. So in conclusion, there is much more unpredictability in a street fight than in a MMA competition (not to take anything away from these guys that compete), which is harder to deal with in general.

James

[n.mitch]

I have heard throught people that Barry Lee( the Machine) from WSL is a very good fighter.
he isn't my sifu or anthing ive just heard it throught people ive trained with, i dont know if he has fought in competition thought.

[hazhardy]

kevin chan, my sifu, www.kamonwingchun.com
he's awesome at WC, and is pretty much world champion at BJJ.
he's the sh!t, and i'm not just saying that.
i'd say he's at the top.
voted 10th hardest in the world by combat magazine....there you have it.
silenced.
hza

[CFT]

Sifu Kevin Chan does have a good rep. but I think you have over-egged the pudding.
Even his own website acknowledges he is "only" a purple belt in BJJ and has won a handful of European titles. To say he is world champion would require some more up to date facts.

Don't know about 10th world hardest, but he did feature in the book "Hard B@stards 2" by Kate Kray.

[eadragon21]

Everyone who is mentioned on here I think is right. All these individuals are great fighters. Heck, my first teacher was an early student of Didier Beddar over in Paris. He told me Didier had a successful fight record when he was younger(this was in Australia.) Again, this is what I was told. However, based upon meeting him and training under him, I can tell you a few of Didier's students are top notch. Most of his students are scattered across Europe, so you don't really hear about him over here, plus I think he's a pretty low key guy.

Sihing, excellent point about the street fighting. I think he's right on here, you don't have months in advance to prepare for the fight. It just happens and you have to react. I certainly respect what those MMA guys do, and their skills are second to none. However, you can't just ignore the brute streetfighter with lots of experience.

[lawrenceofidaho]

Concerning the MMA people...... they are the only ones right now that are able to prove they have this or that amount of skill or ability in the fighting realm, as they are putting it on the line on a regular basis.
Thank you for acknowledging that point. I don't think it can be emphasized enough........


But to say that no one else can be classified as a fighter is not correct IMO.
You're right, James, -but on what basis do we evaluate the innumerable exagerated claims coming from every direction?

If you were to invest your: time, money, energy, emotions, etc. into a training program wanting to learn how to gain some fighting skills, wouldn't you want to learn skills that have been tested against other good fighters in realistic conditions?


Lots of things happen out there in the world everyday, and as long as you are able to use what you know in a real live environment then you are a "fighter" per say, whether it is against scrubs or guys that have experience.
What if some guy claimed that he won his last ten fights by knockout, and some of them included opponents who were using weapons? -Sounds good, right?

Then when you hear the the details, all ten of his fights were against ex-girlfriends, and the "weapons" in the fights were: a frying pan, a kitchen knife, and an (airborne) ashtray........


On the street, even though they may be scrubs, the environment is different and totally based on much less information than in a MMA event. In MMA events you know about your opponent before hand and can adapt your training likewise. Some guys are grapplers and some are strikers and some are both, so you can adapt this to your training and go in to the fight with a strategy, this is not the case on the street.
Take an average amateur MMA guy, and an average wing chun guy with the same amount of training time. Then tell the wing chun guy everything about the MMA guy and give him six months of traditional (non-cross-training) preparation time to get ready for their fight, -and only let the MMA guy know 24 hours beforehand. The MMA guy will probably kick @ss 90% of the time anyway.


So therefore you have to adapt while in the process of dealing with the situation, which might include weapons and more than one opponent. So in conclusion, there is much more unpredictability in a street fight than in a MMA competition (not to take anything away from these guys that compete), which is harder to deal with in general.
An MMA person who trains against attacks from all ranges & all styles is going to be prepared to adapt much better than a person who limits themselves to practicing classic wing chun drills. -Even if weapons or mutiple opponents are involved, an MMA guy has a more realistic view about what he can, or cannot do, while the traditional wing chun guy might have unrealistic fantasies about what is possible due to the nature of the type of traning they often engage in (watch any of the numerous wing chun instructional videos out there or visit your local school, {-a handful of exceptions noted.})

-Lawrence

[Fajing]

wing chun guy might have unrealistic fantasies about what is possible due to the nature of the type of traning they often engage in (watch any of the numerous wing chun instructional videos out there or visit your local school, {-a handful of exceptions noted.}) -Lawrence

The same can be said about ANY martial artist. I know MT guys, Karate guys, and TKD guys who are all the same way. In REALITY if I'm going to attack you on the street, I'm going to lie and wait, then slip up behind you and hook my karambit into your throat and thats the end! I'll snag your loot and roll out. On the street, being aware and avoiding bad places is probably the most important thing. Empty hand combat will only take you so far. Some fighters of all arts are way TOO C0CKY. They lose touch with reality from watching TV.
:confused:

[PlumDragon]

I hear great things about James Sinclair in the UK...Anyone here believe that he does, or does not, belong as a name on this thread?

[Nick Forrer]

Bearing in mind this is purely speculation and a bit of fun I would say

In WT - Boztepe
In WSL VT - Barry Lee (used to get guys to kick him in kidneys for conditioning) and wan kam leung (scary guy w/machete scars down one arm from where he fought three armed attackers and won)
In TWC - Rick Spain (just from hearsay)
In UK - The late Derek Jones was meant to be mustard. Re James Sinclair - couldnt say for sure but I *heard* he lost afight to S Mantis (amongst other things) stylist Paul Whitrod (which isnt to say he cant fight). Of course Im not going to mention my teacher by name but he and his training partner of 30 years were both students of WSL and suffice to say I wouldnt be learning from them if I thought they didnt know anything about fighting. And as mentioned there are plenty of *hard* guys who like to keep a low profile.

BTW Kevin CHan world BJJ Champion???!!!!!!! LMFAO!!

I think Roger Gracie, Jacare, Garcia, Viera bros, Pe de pano, Comprido, Margrida etc. and others would have soemthing to say about that.

[schwarzdragon]

Dear Wing Chun brothers:
Thank you for answering my question. I really am in awe of the degree of response. Keep training until perfection.

[Don J]

My instructor up in Toronto, is pretty **** good his name is Jerome Caballero. He's competed in amateur Muay Thai and Tournament competition. His teaching is very good as well as his fighting footage's he has shown us.

[lawrenceofidaho]

BTW Kevin CHan world BJJ Champion???!!!!!!! LMFAO!!
Aw C'mon Nick....... don't you think Kevin Chan deserves (at least a little bit of) credit for what he's done? -After all, it sounds like he's fought all over the world and done well against competitors at his level of experience.

A young amateur boxer might medal in some type of international competition, and technically, that would make him a (sort of) world champion. Does that mean he ready to jump in the ring with a "world champion" like Winky Wright or Ricky Hatton? -Not for many years, but I think he can still be proud what he accomplished at his level of experience........

I don't know that much about Kevin, but it sounds like he is putting himself out there and really challenging his abilities, so I'll give him some props for that, and let a little bit of the marketing hype slide (unless, of course, it got too out of control.)

:)

-Lawrence

[lawrenceofidaho]

My instructor up in Toronto, is pretty **** good his name is Jerome Caballero. He's competed in amateur Muay Thai and Tournament competition. His teaching is very good as well as his fighting footage's he has shown us.
Sounds cool, Don. -In the fight footage you've seen, how clearly can you see the integration of wing chun, or does Jerome usually stick to more "pure" MT techniques when he is competing?

-Lawrence

[anerlich]

Sifu Kevin Chan does have a good rep. but I think you have over-egged the pudding.

I have to agree. I'm sure he's highly accomplished, but one of the girls from my academy won a gold medal in the World Champs in Brazil last year. So did about seven people from other BJJ gyms in Sydney over the past few years.

A purple belt is not easy to get, though.

My instructor, Rick Spain, got his earlier this year. His BJJ instructor, Anthony Lange, now a black belt, won Gold in the BB Seniors division of the world champs in Brazil a couple of years back.

So, while purple belt level BJJ competition is tough as hell, there are a few people around that can say the same as Sifu Chan (or more correctly can say the same about themselves as what you said about him).

[Nick Forrer]

well..........taking nothing away from Kevin Chan (who im sure is a very good bjj practitioner in his own right), having rolled with a 7 times black belt mundial world champion there is a vast chasm between that level and a purples, even a very tough purple.

Anyway back to WC...........

[stricker]

silly posts and all around! do i follow the pattern and post yeah well MY grappling teacher he's THIS good hahaha! <insert choked out big name bjj bb story here>.

hey nick, two of my bros at mma class trained wc in hong kong with wan kam leung, said he was the hardest bloke theyd ever met. boztepes gotta be a good vote too.

[AndrewS]

Lawrence,

I'll pass the props on to Michael when I get a minute. Were you down in LA a while ago? There was this rumor. . .


Oh yeah, aside from people already mentioned above- Jannis Simonedes of EBMAS. Simply f*ckin' dangerous, impeccable technician, passionate teacher, and one of my favorite people. If he ever gets his health right enough to get in the ring, you'll know the name.

Andrew

[lawrenceofidaho]

Lawrence, Were you down in LA a while ago? There was this rumor. . .
I was in Glendale on a work-related trip from the 12th through the 15th. I tried my hardest to arrange things so I'd have a free night get over to Gary's school for a training session, but it wasn't happening...... I was in conference rooms all day, and at (basically mandatory) business dinners every evening with my boss's boss, and a bunch of other folks in the quality-management dept. that I was supposed to be networking with. -In short, I wasn't able to do anything martial arts-related the entire time I was down there.
:(
-Lawrence

[lawrenceofidaho]

having rolled with a 7 times black belt mundial world champion there is a vast chasm between that level and a purples, even a very tough purple.
Point taken....... :)

[schwarzdragon]

You get often get hurt in wing chun. Every Saturday, we would participate in freesparing against Chinese students from Johns Hopkins Univ. I have been banged and kicked a few times by kids half my age. On my black sash test, I was banged in the mouth so hard during random chi sao that my lip bled inside my mouth. I also had my toe dislocated during the third 3-minute round against 3 different opponents, while executing a kick to the ribs, but still finished the test. I'm not a superman, but a middle-aged school teacher. There is no way to sugar-coat a deadly martial art.

[Matrix]

There is no way to sugar-coat a deadly martial art.I've never heard of someone dying from a bloody lip or dislocated toe. ;)

[Edmund]

I've never heard of someone dying from a bloody lip or dislocated toe. ;)

Come on. It can turn septic!

Then you die during the lip amputation.

[anerlich]

You get often get hurt in wing chun.

You can still train hard and effectively without regular injuries. Short term pain and discomfort, probably not.


On my black sash test, I was banged in the mouth so hard during random chi sao that my lip bled inside my mouth.

Grading before last, I finished with two black eyes, and one side of my chest brusied all over, including a bruised palm imprint in which an image of all fingers except the pinkie were discernible in the bruise.

Other gradings I've witnessed have resulted in dislocated shoulders and a broken fibula. Both gradees completed their gradings and passed. But these were accidents.

In training I've had teeth cracked, broken a toe, cracked a rib, been knocked out, perforated an eardrum, had innumerable bruises, blood noses, split lips and black eyes.

None of this IMO really helped me become a better fighter nor technician. Arguably the time I needed to recover could have been better spent training.

Extreme sports guys, motorcycle racers and rugby players probably deal with much more of this than we do.


I'm not a superman, but a middle-aged school teacher.

I'm a 50-year old technojock.


There is no way to sugar-coat a deadly martial art.

It's effectiveness as a method of self-defense is sound, I'm not particularly interested in its alleged "deadliness" and believe that to denote WC that way is to overrate it.

I've seen very few people seriously damaged in training or in fights by WC (the worst I've seen are ACL tears in training), and I doubt many would be muggers have ended up dead at the hands of WC exponents. None of the fabled rooftop fights in HK ended up with corpses, nor have any of the guys like Emin Boztepe who boast hundreds of streetfights.

If I want to kill someone I'll use a weapon or run them over with my car (or preferably, someone else's car).

[YongChun]

I've seen very few people seriously damaged in training or in fights by WC (the worst I've seen are ACL tears in training), and I doubt many would be muggers have ended up dead at the hands of WC exponents. None of the fabled rooftop fights in HK ended up with corpses, nor have any of the guys like Emin Boztepe who boast hundreds of streetfights.

If I want to kill someone I'll use a weapon or run them over with my car (or preferably, someone else's car).

In 1982 I visited Eddie Chong's Wing Chun school in San Francisco. There was talk at that time that the students at another Wing Chun school claimed to have killed 8 bad street people with their Wing Chun that year all in the name of self defence. As the years go by you hear more and more stories like that and start to doubt all of them.

Ray

[lawrenceofidaho]

In 1982 I visited Eddie Chong's Wing Chun school in San Francisco. There was talk at that time that the students at another Wing Chun school claimed to have killed 8 bad street people with their Wing Chun that year all in the name of self defence. As the years go by you hear more and more stories like that and start to doubt all of them.
Ray
It's wierd that there's people out there who will boast about killing a wino / hobo / bum whose blood alcohol was probably around .30% and probably hadn't eaten a meal in a couple of days. How tough of an opponent would someone like that be? (Basically like a punching bag with bad breath.)

-Lawrence

[AndrewS]

Lawrence,

Dude, you were like *right* between Ernie and me. Next time you're down, drop a line, I've got decent guest quarters and am surface streets off Glendale. At least we should grab a brew of something. . .


It's wierd that there's people out there who will boast about killing a wino / hobo / bum whose blood alcohol was probably around .30% and probably hadn't eaten a meal in a couple of days. How tough of an opponent would someone like that be? (Basically like a punching bag with bad breath.)

*SIIIIINNNGGINNG IN THE RAIN; SIIINNNGINNG IN THE RAIN; WHAT A WONDERFUL FEELING TO BE LAUGHING IN THE RAIN*

Or how not to get panhandled by the film-literate LA homeless.

Andrew

[AmanuJRY]

I don't even like to think about this subject. My opinion on this can change...daily.

Michael Casey is a cool dude, though.:D

[lawrenceofidaho]

Lawrence, Dude, you were like *right* between Ernie and me. Next time you're down, drop a line, I've got decent guest quarters and am surface streets off Glendale. At least we should grab a brew of something. . .
10-4......... Thanks, Bro. :)


*SIIIIINNNGGINNG IN THE RAIN; SIIINNNGINNG IN THE RAIN; WHAT A WONDERFUL FEELING TO BE LAUGHING IN THE RAIN*
Stanley Kubrick friggen rocks!! :D

[hazhardy]

.

BTW Kevin CHan world BJJ Champion???!!!!!!! LMFAO!!

I think Roger Gracie, Jacare, Garcia, Viera bros, Pe de pano, Comprido, Margrida etc. and others would have soemthing to say about that.

yes mate, he came second in the world cahmpionships held in rio a couple of weeks ago, he came second by one point. he had 3 days notice to train for the comp.
he also came second in the championships held in california a few months ago, due to him doing a bicep crunch which was not made out to him that it was 'illegal'.
so before you start being an arragant ***g0t, do your research and you would know that my sifu trains one under R. Gracie himself.
deary me nick,
hza



apart from that great example of arragance, i dnt think he was mentioned in hard *******s 2, lol, but i wouldn't mess either way.

yeah, i mean there are may good fighters out there, and i know few of them, but i would say sifu Kevin Chan is up there too.
cheers
hza

[Nick Forrer]

yes mate, he came second in the world cahmpionships held in rio a couple of weeks ago, he came second by one point. he had 3 days notice to train for the comp.

he also came second in the championships held in california a few months ago, due to him doing a bicep crunch (which was not made out to him that it was 'illegal'.

so before you start being an arragant ***g0t, do your research and you would know that my sifu trains one under R. Gracie himself.
deary me nick,
hza


Its interesting (telling?) that you resort to ho_mophobic insults when someone challenges something you say. How old are you? 14?

However.......I know full well that Kevin Chan trains at Gracie Barra with RG and that he is a very tough competitive purple, in fact, I probably know a lot more about it than you since you seem to think that coming

second (not first)
in his weight class (not open weight)
as a purple belt (not black belt)

makes him world champion.

Of course if you win your division at the mundials then technically you could say you are world champion (as Andrew Nerlich correctly pointed out) but you would have to follow it with belt, weight and age category in order to give a complete picture - otherwise you risk misleading people, especially given the context in which the statement was made i.e. the toughest fighter in wing chun; although in you're case perhaps not deliberately so since you clearly have no real grasp on what you're talking about (as your use of the term 'bicep crunch' makes clear).

Oh and in case you missed it

well..........taking nothing away from Kevin Chan (who im sure is a very good bjj practitioner in his own right), having rolled with a 7 times black belt mundial world champion there is a vast chasm between that level and a purples, even a very tough purple.

Some advice: Read a bit more carefully before you go off on one;)

[CFT]

apart from that great example of arragance, i dnt think he was mentioned in hard *******s 2, lol, but i wouldn't mess either way.Nope he definitely is in Hard B@stards 2. I think there is mention of it on the Kamon website.

I found the book in a bookshop and voila there he was!

[Ludeviews]

Afternoon All,

You can all read about Sifu Kevin Chan's exploits on the Kamon Web site if you so wish....
http://www.kamonwingchun.co.uk/index.asp

There are some photos on there too if interested!

I admit my exposure is limited but I would nominate Kevin as one of the better wing chun fighters, he's very relaxed, explosive, precise and carries some power too!
He has proven ground fighting skills and he's constantly testing himself so that he can continue his learning and progression.

For me, this is obviously theoretical as there are some major strengths required for a fighter that can't really be shown in class.

I'm thinking they would be heart, never say die attitude, willingness to go further than the other chap, ability to work under severe pressure...

Ps
I may be transfering out to Glendale next year, any recomendations on places to train from those in the area? thnx

[Mortal1]

I just wanted to wait and see if anyone would mention him. Sifu Jose Grados in my humble opinion has the best standup I have ever seen. He also claims to have won many street fights using wingchun. If you ever visit the school and see his in depth applicable knowledge of wingchun, you would just know this guy kicks a$$ and has taken his art to another level. He started wingchun at a very young age. His nickname in Harlem was "Tony hands." He even had a gold nameplate with that. I for one believe him because I haven't seen too many bouncers in NYC that don't know and totally respect his skills. He has also hungout with socially, and trained with, the Machado brothers and Rodrigo Gracie. They had a great mutual respect for one another. They would go to clubs together and people would say there goes the best stand up and ground fighter hanging out together. Anybody who is serious about improving their wingchun and fighting skills should seek him out. You will not be dissappointed.

[eadragon21]

Mortal1:

My first teacher also had a lot of good things to say about Sifu Grados. He said he was very fast and moved very well. He claimed Sifu Grados was the best he has seen over here in the states so far(my teacher was originally from Paris.) Again, this was his opinion and not my own, I've never met nor seen Sifu Grados in real life. However, I've seen videos of him and I like the way he moves. It seems like he's very good at deflecting the energy of attacks coming at him, and I particulary like how he is able to quickly transfer from a strike to a takedown or some sort of arm lock/control.

Peace all-

[Matrix]

Come on. It can turn septic! . I stand corrected. ;)

[hazhardy]

so since you clearly have no real grasp on what you're talking about (as your use of the term 'bicep crunch' makes clear).


Some advice: Read a bit more carefully before you go off on one;)

dude. bicep crunch is what it's called. it's on the site and i was told by sifu himself.... 16 not 14.... yeah i do know what i'm talking about... i even training with Mauricao Gomes this weekend. aren't i lucky. and not bad for 16.

ps. i wasn't going off on one.
hza

[UNDERDOG 2]

My vote is for Emin B. Some may not agree but if you have never seen this man in person you do not know what you are talking about. One of the best!

[Fajing]

My vote is for Emin B. Some may not agree but if you have never seen this man in person you do not know what you are talking about. One of the best!


Hey, I haven't seen him in person, but he still gets my vote. That guy's a beast.:eek:
He would woop a$$!

[UNDERDOG 2]

I vote for Phil Redmond Deadliest man LOL!http://www.chathamthisweek.com/story.php?id=100004
He has never even been in a fight even in nam he could not fight being an only child.

[lawrenceofidaho]

I vote for Phil Redmond Deadliest man LOL!http://www.chathamthisweek.com/story.php?id=100004
He has never even been in a fight even in nam he could not fight being an only child.
Dude, your post is in very bad taste. :rolleyes:

[Phil Redmond]

I vote for Phil Redmond Deadliest man LOL!http://www.chathamthisweek.com/story.php?id=100004
He has never even been in a fight even in nam he could not fight being an only child.
You're wrong. We know who you are. Grow up. Thanks for the plug though. ;)
PR

[Ernie]

phil ,
you know you have achieved *STAR* status when you get your own stalkers :D
man i'm jealous :mad:

ps never got the clip ;)

[Ultimatewingchun]

UNDER****2 = Samson = Death Touch = DAVE MEAD.

[Phil Redmond]

phil ,
you know you have achieved *STAR* status when you get your own stalkers :D
man i'm jealous :mad: . . . .
I hear you. One *FAN* has even tried to log in to my account here . . . .
His IP addy busted him though. Dang technology. :D
Phil