Fun with lungs!

[Mr Punch]

Well, try having fun without them!!!

OK, so I got mycoplasmic pneumonia from a lungful of river water, which I'm now over, but I've been left with what the docs here are describing as acute asthma.

Now, I didn't know you could 'catch' or develop asthma at the advanced age of 33, and the docs don't seem to be able to tell me if it's gonna be chronic or not, but the one I asked (who was asthmatic himself) seemed to think that

1) I could keep training, if I have a squirt on the inhaler and watch myself;

2) I might well be able to work through it.

Now, being a stubborn fighty kind of ol ******* I don't intend to have this asthma **** for very long... and I do know of at least one person who reckoned he worked his way through asthma in my old karate school.

Does anyone with any experience of asthma, either chronic or having worked through it, have any advice please?

[@PLUGO]

I grew up with Asthma. One can definately get past it. TCM and dietary changes can go a long way in minimizing its impact. It's however easy to "get hooked" on one's inhaler so while it's wise to keep one handy try to avoid habitual use.

[Hard Fists]

I grew up with asthma. It did affect my activity when I was young, usually during certain seasons. But as I grew older, I was able to work through it. The leading research states that a good exercise program can be beneficial to asthma sufferers. Really, I have heard about quite a few people having an easier time controlling it after training for a while. Just be careful in the begining, and don't get discuraged. Check out this link: http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/Asthma/Asthma_All.html

It's to the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute at NIH.

Train hard.

[Mel]

Hi Mat. It's hard to respond to your question because people can have asthma from different things.

In my late teens/early 20's, I was diagnosed with "asthma." I got it because I had a REALLY bad bout of bronchitis that I did not take care of. By the time I saw a doctor, it was too late. Anyhow, I had to use an albuterol inhaler which worked very well, although it did make me a bit shaky and light-headed. As time went on, it seemed that I needed the albuterol more and more. (I tried primatine mist first, but that stopped working for me after a month or two.) This started driving me CRAZY. It made me feel that I was "weak." Yes, that's stupid, I know, but that's how I felt.

I was determined to get "rid" of my asthma. The first thing I did was cut down on the albuterol. I would go through a bout of wheezing and just keep on wheezing. Sometimes I was able to ride the attack out, which could last a few days. Sometimes I finally had to break down and use the inhaler. It was VERY UNCOMFORTABLE. But each time I used the inhaler, I knew I was using it less and less.

I lived in NY at the time and had a Chinese friend who went to one of the Chinese "pharmacies" and explained my problem. They recommended "loquat jelly," which can be purchased in several places in China Town. It comes in a glass bottle in a box that's orange and white, if I recall (it has been 20 years now). I was advised to make a tea out of it by taking 1 tsp. in hot water and drinking it every morning -- FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR, AT LEAST, WITHOUT MISSING A DAY. Yeah, a year. I was told that loquat jelly is an old, old recipe devised for some Chinese monarch whose wife had breathing difficulties. I don't know how true that is, but that's what I was told.

Anyhow, I drank it every day for a solid year, maybe more. I also cut down on the albuterol, as I said above. And I considerably increased my cardio workout--a catch 22, huh? At first the asthma seemed to get worse from doing that, but as I worked through it for a while, I found that my attacks were coming less frequently and not lasting as long. I also had to work on my emotions. Getting all worked up in any direction over anything can trigger an attack. Hell, I even bought a subliminal tape on freedom from asthma! Sounds crazy, huh? But I SO wanted to be rid of it.

Well, guess what? I did get rid of it. It probably took a couple of years, but I haven't had any problems with it in about 20 years now. Once in a great while I'll feel a slight "resistance" in my breathing. When that happens, I just focus on breathing clearly and remaining calm, and it goes away. But it rarely happens.

I don't know if this will help you at all. I know it sounds a little hokey. But I didn't give up and I kept working at it.....and it worked. By the way, I recommended the above to my spouse who also has asthma. The asthma did not go away, but it DID become GREATLY reduced, so that an inhaler is only used very occasionally now, sometimes with months passing between uses.

I hope you can get something useful out of this. If you have any questions, let me know.

[Mr Punch]

Thanks very much for your answers.

I've still had to be taking it very slowly, although I must admit, had it not been raining today I'd have got a bit of a test training session going on my balcony. It is getting better though.

The loquat thing is interesting... should be able to get that easily over here (it's called biwa in Japanese). And wikipedia suggested that some British scientists had been working on positive effects from apples and I've found that eating them stops the coughing, and the constant phlegm production that is making my life a misery... and maybe some of the tightness in my chest although maybe that's psychosomatic.

The questions I now have are:

1) Exercising through it appears to work for some. Mel you mentioned cardio, but would something like chikung also help do you think? I'll let you know in a few days anyway when I've tried it out but if you have any ideas...

2) If I leave it as long as possible without meds (which has been working so far to help me control it and recognise when the attacks are coming) each time, and then I have an attack, will this have a danger of damaging my lungs more than leaving it as long as possible and then taking meds?

I know I should be asking my doc these questions but the docs over here are not very forthcoming and I'm not seeing him again until the end of next week so I'M going for as many opinions as possible.

[viper]

hi mat im 20 years old iv had it since i was lik 8 and i lind in a cold climate then i moved different things effect different people my bro had it treible in the cold then when we moved to the hot he doesn seem to even have it except in cold if he has a cold i find i control my breathing and be mindful i had a friend tell me a big fit guy who plays football peps wit astma loose 20 yrs of life i told him newhere ne time i would whoop him at ne athletic activty besides tackling im 5,6 hahaha neways i practice martial arts 5 times a week at least and play inline hockey and run dont be discouraged u dont sound lik u will ull find ur lungs will be fine iv had a test at a uni and im fitter then 80% of the population man if i can do that ull be fine just be mindful lik colds and when u think ur gettin one take it easy and the inhalers can have side efects lik mak u shaky thats my only beef i dont mind havin it because it just proves to peps dont be discouraed ne ways mate happy trainin ull be fine dont stress it get ya then so happy huntin

[Willow Palm]

Viper,

No offense really but please use a period every now and then. Reading that hurt me man! :D

[Mel]

Hi Mat. When I said cardio, I meant anything that raises your heart level up high and keeps it there for at least 30 minutes straight. In addition to improving your cardiovascular health, you will increase your lung capacity significantly. It doesn't matter what you do, so long as you get that heart rate up and keep it there--and that means no stopping.

I'm not a physician, and I'll bet if a physician read my last response to you, s/he would surely disapprove. I can only tell you what worked for me. I don't know if you will incur additional scarring by trying to work through it. You might want to start by only letting it go so far, then use your inhaler. Then see if you can stretch that time out a bit the next time around. Certainly, you don't want things to become life-threatening. Try not to cough overmuch. Yeah, I know how that sounds.:rolleyes:

One thing I'm wondering: Are you done with the pneumonia yet? Because if not, you should probably wait until you are completely through with it before you try working through your asthma. I know it's a pain, but you've GOT to be certain the pneumonia is gone. The last thing you need is a relapse. Pneumonia is a serious illness, as I gather you have already discovered. Give it the proper time it needs.

Look into different chat groups. I know yahoo has one on curing asthma--I forget the exact name. But see what others are doing out there. My bout with asthma occurred 20 years ago. But there are people who are going through it right now today who may be able to offer you additional advice, and who may have tried things similar to what I have suggested and will be able to let you know how it worked for them.

Above all, listen to your doctor, but don't give up. Don't resign yourself. If you're not happy with your doctor, find another one. Keep in mind that any doctor is going to tell you that there is no cure for asthma. Don't let that be a "sentence" for you. Keep searching and trying.

[Mr Punch]

Thanks again all.

Yeah I am done with the pneumonia, and the hideous anaphylaxic response I had to the mycoplasma or the antibiotics or whatever it was, and my breathing is getting easier, despite living life somewhat on the edge everyday as I don't know what previously innocuous substance is going to turn out to be a trigger next! :D

I also got a partial slipped disc from constantly coughing...! :eek: and when I've finished with the acupuncture and massage treatment I'm getting for that I'll get the needles on the asthma too and start a cardio programme back up before heading back to the dojo and killing myself properly!

[IronFist]

I also got a partial slipped disc from constantly coughing...! :eek:

I tore the lining on my lung once from sneezing really hard.

[manofkent]

I dont know if there are any but you should try serching the net for athsma related forums and ask some Q's there.

[Hephaestus]

I'm a recovering asthma sufferer myself, and I don't have time to post much right now, but I will say this for starters: attacks are often triggered by hyperventilation (among things like allergens). Be mindful of your breathing and slow it down if you should feel an attack coming on, or even just coughing. Slow and shallow breaths can help you ease into the cardio.

[Slade]

I used to suffer from astma from the ripe old age of 6 months old, at the age of 12 or so I got sick and tired off it and started to ween myself off the inhaler and only use it when it was REALLY bad, and not before excercise and stuff.

I started doing running at first I couldnt run more than 150 meters without getting asthma, I didnt use my pump though I just stood there and waited for it to pass, after a while of trying to go as far as I could I worked my way up to 1 km, then 2kms ect ect. by the age of 19 I could run a full marathon. not even cigarette smoke gives me asthma or even dust now.

[n.mitch]

Ive had asthsma since i was 1yrs old, and have done all the sports to build up my lungs(swimming is proberlly the best and lots of it) Ive trained since i was 7(now 28)and providing you have correct medication preventative puffers you can train just like everybody else you will get to now when you are about to have trouble breathing. Lots of people with asthsma have problems because they only use releaver puffers like ventolin. and dont use their preventer like flixotide

[Slade]

Well I think your body seems to get a imunity to the ventolin inhaler, cos I weened myself off mine and im perfectly fine now.

[RAF]

Chinese herbal medicine effective against asthma By David Douglas
Mon Oct 17, 2:42 PM ET



A plant-based compound using extracts of three herbs, dubbed the anti-asthma herbal medicine intervention (ASHMI), significantly improves lung function in patients with moderate to severe asthma. Moreover, the agent produces results comparable to those achieved with the steroid drug prednisone, according to researchers in the United States and China.

"This is the first well-controlled study in which an anti-asthma Chinese herbal medicine has been found to be as effective as a corticosteroid drug," senior investigator Dr. Xiu-Min Li told Reuters Health.

In the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, Li of Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York and colleagues note that ASHMI has shown benefit in mouse studies of asthma. It is a simplified version of a 14-herb based traditional medication used to treat asthma in a Beijing hospital.

To investigate further, the researchers conducted a study with 91 patients who were randomly assigned to the oral ASHMI and a placebo or oral prednisone and a placebo.

At four weeks, lung function significantly improved in both groups. There was slight, but significantly greater improvement in the prednisone group.

In both groups, there was a significant and similar reduction in symptom scores, the need for beta-2 bronchodilator therapy and a blood marker of inflammation

Although both agents were almost equally effective in treating asthma, the investigators conclude, "ASHMI had no negative effect on adrenal function."

Li added that "additional clinical studies of ASHMI in the United Sates are planned. ASHMI may become an important addition to currently used drugs for asthma."

SOURCE: Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, September 2005.

[_William_]

Asthma sucks ass. I have a bout of it whenever I get a cold. Sorry for not replying earlier.

Use ventolin when you really need it, but don't become dependent on it. Long term it causes deterioration of the lungs.

Something I have tried that really seems to help is gently prolonging the length of my breathing, paying special attention on exhalation and a pause after exhalation. Ideally you want to have a:
1)Short inhalation
2)Long exhalation
3)Pause after exhalation

Do this gently and with patience. What you are basically doing is increasing the level of C02 in the blood.

Read this site for more on Buteyko breathing method:
http://members.westnet.com.au/pkolb/buteyko.htm

[joedoe]

Sorry I have not replied earlier. I have had asthma for almost 30 years now, and about 3 years ago it got a lot worse. Thankfully now it is better.

The probable reason you got asthma at the ripe old age of 33 is probably because of the anaphylactic reaction you suffered. This would have irritated the lining of your lungs and airways, causing asthma.

I have found that for me, the key is to keep warm when the weather is cold, avoid icy foods/drinks and make sure you get regular exercise (these are only what works for me - it may be different for others). Start easy at first, then build it up. Try and work through the discomfort if you can, but make sure you take a break before your breathing gets too hard.

Contrary to popular belief, asthma is often a problem with expelling air rather than inhaling air. If you feel an attack coming on, it sometimes helps to breathe out hard, as if you are blowing through a drinking straw. Do not try to take deep breaths as this leads to hyperventilation and makes things worse.

My main advice is to stick with the medications if you need them, but make sure that you find a doctor who is willing to work with you on reducing your dosages, and eventually leaving you drug free.

[Mr Punch]

Thanks for all your help and advice.

It seems to have settled down for now, and now my back's getting better I've started back with a lot of chi kung and some light fu and cardio.

So far, I've had no serious attacks during workouts, though naturally I'm short of breath and a little weak!

I'm just on Theodur twice a day 200 mg, Parmicord two inhalations twice a day and some broncho-dilator patch when I sleep. I changed doc and this one seems intent on decreasing the medicine too.