9th Duan holders

[Taijiren]

Can anyone direct me to a list of China's 9th Duan holders? Preferably a list with both their names and styles (and short bio would be even better!)

[brothernumber9]

why would you ask a KUNG FU forum about a list of 9th Duan (Dan)?!?

[Oso]

actually, there is a list, saw it once a long time ago but can't remember where.

it listed like, 7th, 8th, and 9th duan levels for particular people.

seemed like a chinese govornment thing

[GeneChing]

...I can't remember which issue though. It'll come to me.

Meanwhile, we've done cover stories on two 9 duan masters. See our articles on Ma Xianda (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=244) in our Nov/Dec 2002 and Cai Longyun (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=625) in our issue on stands now (Nov/Dec 2005)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i have 10 9th dans.

i'm a fu cking badass.

[GeneChing]

The early 9 duan holders are Cai Longyun, He Fusan (deceased), Liu Yunhua (deceased) Ma Xianda & Zhang Wenguang. The next group of 9 duan holders were established recently: Wu Bin, Pang Lingtai, Cang Shouyan, Lu Zijian, Qu Pixan & Liu Yuhua.

[Oso]

Gene, was it a govornment appointment type thing like I'm remembering?

[GeneChing]

...but you have to remember that PRC's organization of martial arts and the duan system is very different then what you might imagine. Of course, it's very political. The national duan system is divided by government levels. 1-3 is city or muncipal, 4-6 is provincial, and 7-9 is national. That being said, all the 9 duans are quite extraordinary, given the huge population of China and that there are only a few of them. When the duan system was initiated, there were only three 9 duans. Also, Shaolin has it's own independant duan system. I've heard of some organizations outside of China that have established there own duan system too, ironically going to 10th duan, which doesn't make sense from a Chinese cultural standpoint. Anyway, we've been trying to get all the 9 duan holders in the mag for some time now. It's one of our longterm goals. All the 9 duan masters are absolutely fascinating. And before anyone jumps on these guys as being wushu, note that they are all old men, trained from childhood. That means that their foundations are all traditional, given their age. They are all treasures to the field of CMA.

[Oso]

Thanks, Gene.

Organization is organization. From a govornment standpoint that stratification totally makes sense.

The 10th level thing has to do with the idea that '10' is perfect in some way????
Just recently read a reference to that so I don't really get it as a concept.

[brothernumber9]

Ahh I see

I thought it was a karate thing. So I learned something. Now I know.




And knowing is half the battle.

"G.I. Joooooeeeee, A Real American Heroooe"

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

yeah but to win the battle you still have to be completely ****ing badass. like me.

[GeneChing]

The 'perfect 10' notion is very western, which is why I made my comment above. Number 9 is held in more regard in Chinese culture. It's the number of the Emperor, the highest single digit (keep in mind, the one thing China didn't invent was zero (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=468)). If you visit the Forbidden City, it's all laid out in patterns of nines. Anyway, that's why 9th duan is the highest.

Take a look at the cover stories I posted above to get a better sense of who a few of the 9 duans are. They are real heavy hitters in the CMA world. As for the rest of the duan system under 9, the 8's are interesting, the 7's aren't as interesting, below that there are just too many to keep track of. We've done some feature stories on some of the other 9 duans, but I'd have to dig for them.

[Taijiren]

Have you done any articles on Zhang Wenguang?

[Oso]

Thanks, Gene.

[GeneChing]

I've never written anything on GM Zhang Wenguang, but it looks like we'll be doing something for our following issue - watch for the Mar Apr 2011.

RIP Zhang Wenguang (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1063335)

In our upcoming issue, January February 2011 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1063319), there's an updated list of all the 9 duan masters. There are almost 40 now, including the three deceased.

[SPJ]

for most people, 3 levels enough

beginner

intermediate

advance.

m-girls 3 is enough.

4 may be a crowd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFDYSrVPUxk&feature=related

:D

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aztY_fpjJeQ

atomic girls 3 too.

:)

[ittokaos]

The reason that 9 is the highest is due to ancient chinese numerology. 9 is the number of the highest level of change or something to that effect. Interestingly enough it is also the highest individual number meaning the highest that an individual can go.

Also, it is one less than the ancient number for God (not in china though).

10 is the number of God in many cultures(even the ones that have a non Christian view) and that is why we in the west rate between one and ten.

One=man

7(perfection) + 3(Father, Son, and Holy Ghost)=10=God

[Violent Designs]

i feel good about being disciple number 7 now. :cool:

[Syn7]

...but you have to remember that PRC's organization of martial arts and the duan system is very different then what you might imagine. Of course, it's very political. The national duan system is divided by government levels. 1-3 is city or muncipal, 4-6 is provincial, and 7-9 is national. That being said, all the 9 duans are quite extraordinary, given the huge population of China and that there are only a few of them. When the duan system was initiated, there were only three 9 duans. Also, Shaolin has it's own independant duan system. I've heard of some organizations outside of China that have established there own duan system too, ironically going to 10th duan, which doesn't make sense from a Chinese cultural standpoint. Anyway, we've been trying to get all the 9 duan holders in the mag for some time now. It's one of our longterm goals. All the 9 duan masters are absolutely fascinating. And before anyone jumps on these guys as being wushu, note that they are all old men, trained from childhood. That means that their foundations are all traditional, given their age. They are all treasures to the field of CMA.

can you post info on how it all works... is it the same as like japan??? or are we talking about something else altogether???

[Syn7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aztY_fpjJeQ

atomic girls 3 too.

:)

now dont tell me you can stomach this drizzle just to gawk at video hoes?!?!?!?
very original stuff man...

[Syn7]

also, because the hindus created the numeral system we use today, you gotta assume that china was exposed to the concept pretty early... before europe im sure... they must have been toying with it when the arabs grabbed onto it...

[SPJ]

3 at city

3 at province

3 at national

3+3+3=9

I was rite. good idea.

2 is a couple. 3 is a company. 4 is a crowd.

:)

[SPJ]

now dont tell me you can stomach this drizzle just to gawk at video hoes?!?!?!?
very original stuff man...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fwrV7sg_88&feature=related

drooling all over the telli yeah

:)

[GeneChing]

Making the Grade (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=927) catches you up on where the duan system is now. That's in our 2010 November/December issue (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=923), which is still on the newsstands for another week or so.

[Taijiren]

Gene,

As an article request, how about publishing not just the names of the 9th duan holders, but also brief blurbs about their styles and accomplishments. You know, just a paragraph (or even a sentence or two) on each person. Since there's 38 of them now, maybe break it into two articles, 2-3 pages each.

Or even better, how about a brief profile in each magazine? If you can't get an interview, just do a re-occuring one page feature on each person? Grab a couple of pics and write up a couple paragraphs on their background. 38 folks = 3+ years of articles. Yay!

BTW, I love that all the pages are in full color now!

-Alvin

[GeneChing]

It's more difficult than you might think. For example, there was no published list of the nine duan that we could find that was complete, not even in the official IWuF or CWA materials. We had to compile the list from several official news announcements. You'll find that present list in our January/February 2011 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=936) in our Dongyue Taiji: New Fusion for the New Millennium By William Oh. This article discusses the only nine duan couple - Men Huifeng and Kan Guixiang. We had the honor of hosting Kan Guixiang and her daughter Man Ganhong back in July.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs200.snc4/38321_447760014362_135964689362_6028028_7685708_n. jpg

L-R Gene Ching, Rainbow Chen, Jinglin Wayne, Men Ganhong, Kan Guixiang, Joanna Pei, Jonny Oh, Gigi Oh, Christopher Pei

We'll have an obituary on Zhang Wenguang (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59194) in our next issue.

We'll cover all the nine duan in good time.

[pazman]

A perspective on the duan system:

The Chinese duan system has no relationship to the Japanese dan ranking. Probably the most basic difference is that their is a separate system for Chinese nationals and foreigners. The duan for Chinese allows them recognition for achievement and coaching qualifications. Foreigners can receive qualifications for coaching, but they must teach outside of China. Foreigners also pay much more for ranking, as per Chinese cultural norms.:rolleyes:

Second, concerning the traditional gongfu ranks, the only skills tested are taolu. Usually when people talk about the traditional gongfu in China, they mean the taolu for competitions. And example of this would be tanglangquan.

In China, this is proper tanglangquan: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTU0MjExMTI=.html

What many people outside of China would consider Mantis, like Bengbu, is not recognized as Mantis in China. Furthermore, applications and two man drills are rarely, if ever, practiced, even in "traditional" styles.

Having some experience with the Japanese dan ranking, my opinion is that the Chinese duan system will not work out well for traditional gongfu. In Japan, or the world for that matter, having a 5th dan in Judo means something very concrete and very measurable. In China, having a 5th duan in, say, fanziquan, may mean you have considerable traditional knowledge, or it may mean you are just good at the competition form and have a political connection.

While I will probably end up taking a couple of duan exams before I leave China (just to make my mother even more proud of me:D), I'd be wary of mainland Chinese offering their duan ranking as their primary qualification.

[TenTigers]

...mine goes to eleven.