Best lessons

[EarthDragon]

Morning to all ............ after reading some of the new threads I was wondering what part of your MA training do you find taught you the best lessons?

[bo_hou_chuan]

"boot to da head" "na na na naaaaa" ;)

[Chief Fox]

sparring sparring sparring

[Oso]

deep insightful contemplation of the theories of combat over tea.

[Oso]

;)
.............

[MightyB]

My Sifu says "Use soft to defeat hard".

I've often used that lesson in interpersonal relationships and in managing people. Try this the next time somebody wants to draw you out into an argument. Stay calm, state the facts, acknowledge their position on the issue but be sure to clearly and calmly state your position on the issue-- don't argue and don't shout. It works. Then, when their diffused... use the second part of the lesson... "Use soft to defeat the hard, then use hard to kill". This doesn't imply shouting, but a strong, firm and direct closer statement.

[bo_hou_chuan]

My Sifu says "Use soft to defeat hard".

I've often used that lesson in interpersonal relationships and in managing people. Try this the next time somebody wants to draw you out into an argument. Stay calm, state the facts, acknowledge their position on the issue but be sure to clearly and calmly state your position on the issue-- don't argue and don't shout. It works. Then, when their diffused... use the second part of the lesson... "Use soft to defeat the hard, then use hard to kill". This doesn't imply shouting, but a strong, firm and direct closer statement.

That never works. :p

[EarthDragon]

Oso & Mightybe
great answers.. I wondering about this after reading the latest threads.

I wondered if in this day and age all we care about it martial technique, getting what we paid for, more information, videos, corrections and the building of an arsenal etc etc.

I wondered what happened to the building of character. humbelness, good values, respect, loyalty etc etc.

seems as much is lost from kungfu at least teh spiritual side as a whole and evetything has turned in some sort of MMA ready for the end of the world. perhaps vaules and tradtions have not been streesed and taught as much as proper foot alignemt or power generation.

[Oso]

well, for the most part, it's gone commercial. your 'average' student isn't there for you to tell them how to live their lives. they want something physical and are willing to pay you for it. end of class...they go home...you go home...'here endeth the lesson'.

don't get me wrong...I don't want to teach a trouble maker be they child or adult.

Rule #1: Don't get in trouble with your kung fu.

I mostly talk to kids about this and I let them know that once the principal and their parents get done talking to them...they have to talk to me.

I tell my adults that if they fight with their kung fu, and I find out, they will have to justify their actions to me.




...i also see this thread heading to the main board...

[EarthDragon]

Oso,
yes lets keep this about lessons in praying mantismantis so bei doesnt have to move it.
I ask serious questions on this board becuse I get serious answers. Once it gets moved to the kids board it is not worth responding to the childrens comments.

[Oso]

so...technical lessons or is there a mantis specific moral code that I've never seen?

[yu shan]

Learning the ling side to the forms being taught to me has taken my training to another level. It really has opened my eyes. Also the two person hand drills and kicking drills are hardcore, not to mention the conditioning that Ponglai has to offer.

[-N-]

Ok, a small technical eye opener that surprised me.

I had been trying really really hard to speed up a technique that we were drilling in class. After all, Mantis is supposed to be fast. I was really frustrated, because I couldn't get any more speed out of the movement.

Somehow, my teacher was able to point out to me that my problem was not with the move I had been trying to speed up. It was with the movement immediately preceeding it. That previous motion had been slowing down the entire combination. After that, I made a point to look at movements and their context.

N.

[-N-]

Another... "empty glasses make the most noise". One of my teacher's expressions.

This was related to the lesson to pay close attention whenever the teacher demonstrated something. Instead of yakking, "Oh yes, I know that technique, it's just the same as blahblahblah", just watch and pay attention with every fiber of your existence because the best lessons and explanations are nonverbal and can be overlooked if you're busy talking or jumping ahead.

N.

[Oso]

i wish I could remember the lesson where I learned to really pay attention to what my teachers were showing me...I need to pass that one on :rolleyes:

[-N-]

i wish I could remember the lesson where I learned to really pay attention to what my teachers were showing me...I need to pass that one on :rolleyes:Hmmm... did that lesson involve severe physical pain by any chance? :)

Actually, I think that is a lesson that each student learns when he or she is ready. Some students never do learn it.

In my case, after doing Ou Lou Tsai and whatever for a couple of years, I noticed a detail of the coordination between the lead hand and lead foot when my teacher demonstrated the movement. He had been showing us the same way all along, but up until that point, I was too preoccupied just trying to keep up that I never noticed it.

After I picked up on it, all my attacking motions improved, and I also realized that I had to try as hard as I could to be aware of every possible detail, no matter how subtle.

N.

[Oso]

lol, sometimes, but then again, i spent my first 7 years of martial training in the 'old school' method...never paid any money...just effort.


i dunno, it was a very simple thing and they just weren't friggin' listening

[mantid1]

Teaching moral character and values? It is getting harder these days to find someone who has good moral character and values. If you dont have them its hard to teach them.

I had a student who has been around the martial arts and many other instructors for about 20 years make a comment to me about how great of a person I am. He said "Sifu, you are a great guy and a good Example. You dont cheat on your wife, hang out in bars, abuse alcohol, smoke or cause trouble getting into fights".

It is a shame that in this day and age you are considered a good person just because of reasons like that. I think that not cheating on your wife, not being a drunk and being a good person is the minimum. I should have to do alot more than that to be looked up to.

My first lesson was about 25 years ago when my instructor was teaching a senior how to call points in sparring for an upcoming tournament. My instructor was sparrring me. My instructor said" my god cant you see my techniques that I am scoring one him"! "You have to watch"! then I said "Sifu, I dont complain when he doesnt call my points". The seniors counted about 20 punches and about five kicks in the five seconds before he choked me out.

Cant do that now days.

I never forgot that lesson.

[TaichiMantis]

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho]If you want to:

- Go to bed with a girl then you buy her a fancy dinner first.

/QUOTE]


And if you believe that last one....

[EarthDragon]

wow these are some great responses. i enjoy hearing about the lessons learned from all our years of hard work.
As -n- said some of the best lessons are non verbal.

also think that the best lessons are not the ones taught but the ones learned.

I remember hearing a story of a student whom trained to fight everyday in defense that he would some time sooner of later have to use what he had trained so hard for.
People would ask him why are you training so hard? he would reply incase I am attacked I will be able to execute my defense flawlessly. His teacher upon seeing this said the only real enemy that cannot be beaten is you........... Your training for the wrong defense train to conquer your ego. For that is your worst enemy.

techniques are important for fighting but the martial aspect is only a small piece of the art.

[Oso]

i dunno.

I'm in the camp that says that if you are going to do a 'martial' art then the assumption is that you have the goal of being able to use that skill to defend yourself one day.

there are certainly people that go overboard with paranoia.

there are plenty of things you can do, dance being one of them, that take as much 'kung fu' as a martial art and will give you the same 'spiritual' benefit.
if you don't have some sort of desire to be able to defend yourself physically then I feel you are wasting your time in a martial art. take up dance, or yoga or 'for health' tai chi.

i agreee that ego should be controlled and that you should not look for fights or situations to utilize your skills and that non combative means to deescalate a situation should be attempted before damage is done (from either side). But, the root of this thing we do is the ability to kick ass if need be.

[yu shan]

Well I will say this... kung fu has always been just a hobby to me. Now it is a hobby I do everyday but just a hobby. I dont play golf or fish or hunt etc. I just do my kf and try to be a good husband/father and to produce well at work. I apply my hobby/training to these areas. Years of doing my kf hobby I think has made me a better man, far from perfect though. In my eyes, it takes a differant person to do what we do, yes no maybe so?

One day while practicing broadsword in front of Chan Pui, I asked him, are my movements with the sword correct? His answer, I am not watching the sword, I am watching what your empty hand is doing! So to this day, I pay close attention to this.

[-N-]

One day while practicing broadsword in front of Chan Pui, I asked him, are my movements with the sword correct? His answer, I am not watching the sword, I am watching what your empty hand is doing! So to this day, I pay close attention to this."Don dao hon sau, serng dao hon jau."

"Single broadsword watch hand, double broadsword watch running."

An old kung fu expressioin meaning that to determine the skill of the person doing single broadsword, you watch the movement and coordination of the empty hand. To determine the skill of the person doing double broadsword, watch the movement and coordination of the footwork. The reason being that the beginner will focus on the sword, and will more or less get the sword movement correct. It is the other details that will show the level of mastery.

This is related to the lessons I described previously about Ou Lou Tsai and footwork coordination, and about preceeding movements and context affecting the overall speed of a combination.

N.

[EarthDragon]

-N-
you bring up great points that made me remember a lesson I learned form my sensei........ he had lighting fast hands.
When I asked him why my hands wernt nearly as fast, he asked me what am I focusing and concentrating on? I said the strike, and the speed in which I do it. he said if you want your speed to increase, focus and concentrate on bringing the technique back, this will enhance and improve your speed.

alas! a different way of looking at many things which to me at the time an uncommon point of perspective. Now so much the norm somtimes I forget to teach my students this simple but valuable tip......

[Americanmantis]

Hi guys~ With reference to moral character, and not to push my religion...

From a Christian perspective, although I believe it is universal to all benevolent religions, it is wrong to physically injure someone.

However, in an imperfect world where there is constant struggle between good and evil (like yin/yang), fighting and wars are inevitable. Actually evil has no power...it exists only by deception.

If conflict does arise, and one is forced to utilize martial arts, I believe it is critically important to be "spiritually correct", and not initiate the fight. Not to be confused with being politically correct. Correct punctuation could make all the difference though.:)

Spiritually, the real victory lies in avoiding a fight altogether. If there is no other way...at least you know God is in your corner.

Dr. George Lisjak

[mantid1]

War and fighting are wrong, but it is also wrong to be unprepared to defend your self.


I read that somewhere.

[-N-]

"If you can see your own hand, then you are not fast enough. Your attack must be faster than even you yourself can see."

uh... blinking doesn't count :)

N.

[-N-]

"Vicious, more vicious. As if you will kill even your opponent's ancestors."

and 3 years later....

"Smile! Think happy thoughts!"

N.

[-N-]

"But what if the other person has a gun. What do you do then?"

"Kill him."

N.

[-N-]

Famous Wing Chun teacher - "If you want to join the class, come back tomorrow. Class will be tomorrow."

Prospective student - "You will be here tomorrow?"

Famous Wing Chun teacher - *turns and walks away without saying another word*

Apparently, that first lesson was free :)

N.

[EarthDragon]

Buddhist koan............ a eager young student walks in the mountains looking for a famous master.
Upon seeing an old man chopping rice the young student says to the old man can you tell me where to find the famous Master Yi? the old man smiles, the young student (in a louder voice) asks again the old man replies I bought this sickle for 35 cents and it works quite well...............

[Willow Palm]

One important lesson for me was when sifu is correcting someone else during a class, I take it as if he's addressing me directly.

A terrific side effect of kungfu has been how it influences other aspects of my life. Everything becomes much easier by comparison and I don't just mean other physical activities, but friends, girlfriends, work, shopping, the list goes on and on. It's made me more compassionate, thoughtful, and considerate of others.

To sum it up;

"If life is a treacherous river, then kungfu is my unsinkable vessel. Once there are no distinctions between kungfu, life, and myself, the vessel and river disappear entirely so I may go where I wish."

Warren

[EarthDragon]

williow palm,.......... wonderfuly said

[David Jamieson]

Through continued practice, you will come to realize your capabilities. You will also come to know your limitations.

Failures are often our greatest teachers.

[bodhitree]

pain! sparring. moving.

[Mel]

Earthdragon, you KNOW who my Shufu was. I always liked the philosophy aspect of class. And I also like the saying, "If the body fails, you fall, but if the mind fails, you stand."

[EarthDragon]

Mel,
LOL yes I do and how about his only you could bet on would come up in every class............... "horse stance" :D

[greensage22]

the best lesson is getting to teach. instructing someone else helps you to find your own flaws. fights can be avoided using your mind, so you don't have to use
your fists.

[Wong Fei Hong]

Weird as it may sound but my most important lesson was that theres 2 types of martial artists out there be they traditionalists paid fighters or whatever.
Theres the best and theres allllllllllllllllllll the rest.
It doesnt matter how good you are, you are always one of the rest, you could win so many fights train so many years and still not be in that category with the best you are just an improved version of a begginer.
And you can really see this in boxing you go through the years and look at the greatest fights of the greats and they look like they are doing exactly what the other guys are doing , but theres just something about the way they do it that stands them apart from the rest.
So i think the lesson i learnt isnt to keep on improving or else we will just be better versions of the begginers we were , i think we need to see what sets the top people above from everyone what they do and do that.

On a funny note when i first got to spar with my sanda teacher about 6 years back i had a heavy heavy background in wing chun so when i realised i couldnt touch him trying to fight him in any other way, i reverted to wing chun i sort of running jumping roll punched him he takes a step back and laughs he is like erm DONT do that.
Thats when i realised some of what we spend years learning doesnt work as prescribed. :D