ex-8step (from a different thread)

[BeiTangLang]

#42 Yesterday, 01:55 PM
ex_8step
Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2

Response Again

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently somebody deleted my post yesterday because they did not want other to read my story. I write as being genuine and sincere in my account. Because of my technical background, I have saved a copy and has repost it again. If it get delete it again I will post it as a separate thread or to another martial art website. I want people to know me and not the misrespentation in this thread.

Thanks.


I am the short Chinese guy (Kin, but my master always call me Kim) that was mentioned in this thread. I am only responding to the information that was misleading about me and my relationship to my master Shyun. Mike’s information about me is partial and closest to being correct.

From time to time I surfed on the Internet regarding 8 Step information just to keep up with what’s going on with the system because I still have a personal passion for the Mantis style.

I am of Chinese descent born in Hong Kong (impossible for me to be a spy since I am not from Taiwan) and came to the US when I was very young. I speak fluent English and broken Chinese (Cantonese). The only small amount of Mandarin Chinese that I learned is when I studied under my master Shyun in SF.

Before 8 Step, I studied 7 Star in NYC under Stanley Moy and Cheung Wah who learned from Master Chiu Leung. Also I knew Stephen Laurette who is my 7 Star sifus’ kung fu brother and Tony Puyot’s sifu. Tony is Mike’s sifu. I met Tony in SF during my studies.

Here is my condensed 8 Step timeline. Back in the fall of 1986 I came to SF for 3 weeks to train with my master Shyun. What sparked my interest in 8 Step is the fact that 8 Step has an advanced ground fighting form according to master Shyun’s first Inside Kung Fu article. Before I came to SF, I called my master at the school and convinced him to give me private lessons because of my short stature.

It was my first time being in SF, so during the day time I was sightseeing SF for the first week and trained in the evening. The next two weeks I spend most of the time training. Afterward, I returned back to NYC and continued with my 7 Star training.

Then around September of 1987 I was again in SF for more training of 8 Step. At that time master James Shyun was invited to Taiwan in December for the Tai Chi tournament. So he was teaching Tai Chi to me and some of the students that were going to Taiwan to participate in the tournament. While in Taiwan, we had the privilege of visiting and paying respect to Grand Master Wei’s grave site. I returned to NYC after the trip to Taiwan.

I moved out to SF in the summer of 1988 hoping to study 8 Step full time. But some times it does not work out the way you want it to. I was having a hard time looking for work to sustain my living expense in SF to continue my 8 Step studies. My master’s brother in-law was very helpful and got me a job working with the company that he works for (7pm-3am (S-Th)). Because of my work schedule I could not participate in the regular class schedule. This is why my Master taught me privately.

Before Dean moved back to Buffalo, my master videotaped me performing the 8 Step forms and his other Tai Chi student the Tai Chi forms. This is for the Dean to reference to for both systems.

My master did teach me a lot of 8 Step because I helped him out doing some minor work with some of his business ventures outside of martial arts. He has not charged me tuition since I moved to SF (No, I did not do his laundry and house work).

Also my master never kicked me out of his house or school. I still have a master/student relationship with him to this day. He has been good to me and I always had the highest respect for him. I moved back to NYC in late fall 1992 while he was away in Taiwan doing business.

Around 1995/1996 (I’m don’t remember the exact date) when he came to NJ to do a seminar, I took him and his student Jack Skutnik to dinner in NYC Chinatown.

My master’s family (wife, son Anthony, daughter Anita, brother and brother in-law) can verify my relationship to my Master and his family. I still keep in touch with his son Anthony via email.

Currently I am not active in martial arts and have no present/future intention of any involvement with 8 Step/7 Star. My present career is in the computer technology field.

There is no secrecy surrounding my relationship with Master Shyun. I am just like all of you that were/are learning 8 Step because it is a great and effective martial art system.

I have left out details which I felt it was unnecessary in this post, but enough for you all to know who I am.

My wish/prayer for all of you is to continue to focus on studying and mastering the martial arts (physical and philosophical) and to keep it alive for future generations.

With great respect to all I end here.




Whatever my master Shyun has told you regarding me, I know he has his reason at that time. I will personally speak to him on this matter for clarification.

Please speak to my master James Shyun, his senior students, his kung fu brothers or his kung fu brothers’ student for clarification on the names of the forms that you are seeking. I do not have the authority to speak on it nor will I break my teacher/student bond with my master.

I am going to make one recommendation to you. Please do not publicize the internal affairs of any martial art systems whether it is true or false. This does not help to promote the martial system, but only to destroy it. - Kin


Abandoning gossip, he abstains from gossip; he speaks at the right time, speaks what is fact, speaks on what is good, speaks on the Dhamma and the Discipline; at the right time he speaks such words as are worth recording, reasonable, moderate, and beneficial.

Majjhima-Nikaya
From "365 Buddha: Daily Meditations," edited by Jeff Schmidt. Reprinted by arrangement with Tarcher/Putnam, a division of Penguin Putnam Inc.


ex_8step
View Public Profile
Send a private message to ex_8step
Find all posts by ex_8step
Add ex_8step to Your Buddy List

#47 Yesterday, 06:45 PM
Three Harmonies
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 397

****IT I could care less, but I do want to know about the groundfighting form, or techniques or whatever, since this is the FIRST time I have ever heard of any such thing in Babu Tanglang!!!!

Thanks
Jake
__________________
"Gravity never lies, and the ground never misses."
Jake Burroughs
Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
Albuquerque, NM
www.threeharmonies.com


Three Harmonies
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Three Harmonies
Visit Three Harmonies's homepage!
Find all posts by Three Harmonies
Add Three Harmonies to Your Buddy List

#48 Yesterday, 07:36 PM
Michael Dasargo
Registered User Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: San Diego, CA USA
Posts: 45

Kin Shibo,

Thank you for clarifying the history of your relationship with Shigong. I deeply appreciate your gesture in coming forward in this matter. It is also very exciting for me to now be in touch with someone from the days of old. With your permission, I would like to contact you privately to learn more about our history.

Sincerely,
M.Dasargo
__________________
The Traditional Kung Fu Academy
www.MantisSkills.com

The Kuoshu Union 501(c)3
www.Kuoshu-Union.org


Michael Dasargo
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Michael Dasargo
Visit Michael Dasargo's homepage!
Find all posts by Michael Dasargo
Add Michael Dasargo to Your Buddy List

#49 Today, 08:16 AM
EarthDragon
SHRFU FOR LIFE! Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 688

Kin, why the secrecy? you said you dont have the authority to say what you have learned? or break the bond you have by naming the forms? I didnt think tyou needed authority to list the names of the sets. I am not asking to teach them just list them.

You say to ask his senior students? there is only 1 of his students senior to me and that is Dean and he doesnt know the names either.

May I ask what kung fu brother you speak of? Shrfu Lin perhaps?


I appriciate your advice and recommendation however much has happened in the ACMAF since the old days. And the "cat" has been let out of the bag many years ago.

I am now to the point in my training that I am trying to sort out Wei's ba bu from Shyun's and attempting to reveal what has came from where. Many have helped me sort this out however there has always been curiosity to he last 5 sets and thier origin. Therefore I dont think that by listing the names of these forms is breaking any bond nor taking authority.

I do appriciate you comming forward and clairifying the situation. Just asking for a little help in my clairification. thanks
__________________
www.eightstep.com
Please visit us

The more we learn, the less we know

[ex_8step]

Let’s see……

1. You never really met me, but publicly tarnished my character whether the rumors are true or false.
2. You are unapologetic even after I publicize my account for clarification.
3. You publicly trash talk my master Shyun, his students and the 8 Step Preying Mantis System that he teaches.
4. You are no longer part of the instructor list of www.8step.com.

Mmm…If you were me, would you be helpful to someone who has no respect to you, your master or your system. :confused:

[EarthDragon]

ex_step


1.May I ask how I tarnished your character? I simply repeated what had been told to me by my teacher James Shyun. If anyone tarnished your character it was You for your actions, and Shyun for telling his other students about what you had done.

2.Are you looking for a apology from me? I didnt think I said anything to offend you, disrepect you or that I should be sorry about. Please expalin if I did..

3. thirdly Shyun is not your teacher nor master. According to him he kicked you out after finding that letter. I never trashed talked him. I simply stated facts I had learned and then decided to leave the ACMAF with 4 of my kung fu brothers for that information that had surfaced. Also he does not claim to teach 8 step praying mantis but Shyun style praying mantis. Which we have all found out why...

4. I am no longer affiliated with the ACMAF. But I am still a certified Shrfu. He cannot take my acomplishments or ranking away just becuse I refused to pay the dues and follow his cult. But I am still ranked, still used to be the HQ scool of NY and still a 6th generation and BTW your name was never on www.8step.com and you were never a grade 1 shrfu. Dean's name is not on the new website and he is the first, the best and only 5th generation under shyun, so what does that mean? he stopped paying the ridiculous dues also.

If I were you .............Yes I would help out other people interested in 8 step to promote and help open the system. I would be glad to answer anyones questions, clear up confusion. and help the system grow in any way i can. enough with the BS already. this has been the demise of the 8 step system since Shyuns comming to the USA. the CAT as i said has been let out of the bag. But just becuse you took some private lessons with him does not entilte you to call him anything but james/shrfu shyun. For it is these reasons his version of 8 step has been questioned, laughed about and discredited thus far... there are not 10 stes in ba bu this is why so many people are curious about what it was you learned. Do you think you learend the secret master Wei's sets handed down onlyt to James Shyun? the the sole inheritor of 8 step???????????????????????????
Mmm…If you were me, would you be helpful to someone who has no respect to you, your master or your system.

I do appriciate you comming forward and clairifying the situation. Just asking for a little help in my clairification. thanks

[ex_8step]

I see where this is heading, so this will be my last post and I will not be visiting this site again. I don’t like to deal with inconsistencies. I only came forward to clarify my relationship with MY MASTER and the system on the first post. Whether you all believe it or not, I will let you all decide. My account with my master and 8 step can be validated by my Master’s family. I welcome all to make inquiries to my master’s family regarding me.

If everybody would read my original post again, I NEVER made any specific claims on what I was taught, learned or even being an instructor. I only said “My master did teach me a lot of 8 Step”. Remember if someone says “a lot” and makes no details to the claim, it means nothing. So you all can say I learned NOTHING.

As for those 10 8 step “Shyun” mantis forms in the video tape, I make no claims to it. All other 8 Step gurus can try to figure out their names or whether it is real or fake.

Anything claimed that was said by my Master, I will speak to him this week for clarification.

I tried to call my Master Shyun Friday night, but he was away teaching his students. He will be returning tomorrow (Monday) and I plan to call him this week to pay my respect to him. It’s been too long since I last spoke to him. I will also inform my master on what’s these sites have been talking about him.

The other good thing is that I was able to talk to Anthony (Master Shyun’s son). It’s been a few years since we talked, we usually communicate via email. I had a nice long conversation with him, we reminisce our days back in SF. We also talked about what went on with him, his father and his family after I left.

Again my wish/prayer for all of you is to continue to focus on studying and mastering the martial arts (physical and philosophical) and to keep it alive for future generations.

With great respect to all I end here.

BTW - I scanned one of Grand Master Wei’s book (out of print) that I photocopied from my Master Shyun. Here is the cover of the book and I chopped it up to fit the size requirement. I have attached to this post. :)

[Three Harmonies]

So is it safe to assume that NO ONE is going to talk about this mysterious Di Tang Babu set???????? :confused: :confused:
I have never heard of this, and yet certain people want to bring it up on the web but do not want to elaborate! So until further notice I am calling BULL**** on this one! :rolleyes:

[yu shan]

Does not look like it Jake. Dude said he was out of here.

[Forkintheroad]

Hey Jake,
I've never heard of a Di-tang set in Ba Bu, only that Master Wei studied it prior to learning 8 step (I'll double check on that though, as I'm unqualified to speak on such things). There are ground moves in the 4th Session, but I myself have yet to learn it, and can't really comment on it (out of ignorance, not out of secrecy). I thought the Di-Tang set was the in Plumb Blossom's 7th essential, that came from Song's line. I have heard of "Low mantis" in Shyun's 8 step, as well as adding ground fighting from MMA (I base this on past threads regarding Joel Sutton's tape of ground fighting, broken down into the 8's), but I don't think that came from Master Wei, I could be wrong, but nobody else was commenting, so I threw in my 2. If I hear other wise from my instructor, or the wonderful people affiliated with and including Master Chang who have been more than generous with us, I'll repost.

Later,
Rich

[Three Harmonies]

Rich
Thanks. Indeed Ditang is in certain parts of the Zhai Yao (I too have not learned them so I can only comment so far) of many styles, but I have never heard of a whole form in Babu. Just certain techniques found in the 6 or 7th road of Babu Zhaiyao. I learned the Di Long Jing (Ground Dragon Classic) from my Xing Yi coach Tim Cartmell, but their is not much to it.
I would like to hear more about Di Tang in Mantis (or any style for that matter). I believe these skills are quickly becoming lost, and would like to preserve them.
Sutton.....sounds familiar. What tapes does he have out? Any good?

Thanks
Jake :D

[Forkintheroad]

Hey Jake,
Joel Sutton had a few fights in the UFC, won some and lost some. Any way the tape he made was for James Shyun, and some of his instructors, I don't believe it was ever available to the public, and I don't have a copy of it either. I'll see if I can dig up one up before giving a description. Tim Cartmell... he writes good books, if I'm thinking of the same person (Effortless Combat Throws) and from his descriptions of entrances, and dynamics seems like a good teacher.

Have a good one,
Rich

[BeiTangLang]

Does not look like it Jake. Dude said he was out of here.


Which is why I deleted his first post,...a "Look at me" post right in the middle of someone elses thread. Sorry but I think its pure chicken-sh!t to put up such a fuss then bail out when the real questions are asked with no fore-coming answers;,....wich is also why I made this thread as opposed to letting him do it then delete it as so many others have done.

Sorry for going off on this one but its a cr@ppy day & I need to pound someone.
I'll be back when I cool down a bit.

Trolls s#ck,.....I hate everyone...including the imortal monkey master,.....the b@statrd.

~BTL

[commoner]

This is what little I heard about James Sun's ground fighting mantis. I heard from a friend of mine who hung out in SF's pan handle park where Brendan Lai and Adam Hsu used to teach. This was back in the early '90s. One of Sun's student talk about the ground fighting mantis form having a lot of moves (over 200). The moves has a lot mantis techniques added with the ground fighting techniques that you see in a lot of North styles' groundfighting. It has different rollings, low kicks, sweeps, and leg sissor cut. I heard that the mantis ground fighting is used only when the opponent's skill is equal to or greater. Basically it is the tie breaker.

Don't hold me to the story. This is only what I heard. :rolleyes:

[TaichiMantis]

This is what little I heard about James Sun's ground fighting mantis. I heard from a friend of mine who hung out in SF's pan handle park where Brendan Lai and Adam Hsu used to teach. This was back in the early '90s. One of Sun's student talk about the ground fighting mantis form having a lot of moves (over 200). The moves has a lot mantis techniques added with the ground fighting techniques that you see in a lot of North styles' groundfighting. It has different rollings, low kicks, sweeps, and leg sissor cut. I heard that the mantis ground fighting is used only when the opponent's skill is equal to or greater. Basically it is the tie breaker.

Don't hold me to the story. This is only what I heard. :rolleyes:

In CCK TCPM we have a form, Lao Hop Jung, that has sweeps and scissor cut moves done from the ground. Two people in our class our learning it now and my sifu allowed me to see a tape of Grandmaster Cheng's son doing this form. Truly amazing!

[bo_hou_chuan]

Which is why I deleted his first post,...a "Look at me" post right in the middle of someone elses thread. Sorry but I think its pure chicken-sh!t to put up such a fuss then bail out when the real questions are asked with no fore-coming answers;,....wich is also why I made this thread as opposed to letting him do it then delete it as so many others have done.

Sorry for going off on this one but its a cr@ppy day & I need to pound someone.
I'll be back when I cool down a bit.

Trolls s#ck,.....I hate everyone...including the imortal monkey master,.....the b@statrd.

~BTL

Shouldn't you have started a different thread regarding this? :eek: ;) :D

[BeiTangLang]

Shouldn't you have started a different thread regarding this? :eek: ;) :D

BAH! LOL!

[mickey]

FWIW,

Adam Hsu also learned the 8 step style. If there is a groundfighting set, he may have it as well. I do remember reading that he taught students this style for the sake of keeping it alive for another generation.

mickey

[ex_8step]

I spoke with my master James Shyun and yes he is still my master. He has confirmed to me that I am still legitimately part of his 8 step praying mantis system. My entire 8 step was taught by my master Shyun. (Note: Some of my senior classmates taught me some basics when I first started with 8 step). You can contact him or his students can verify it through him.

Grandmaster James Shyun wants everybody to know that they are welcome to talk to him or his active students to clarify any false claims against him or his school. Also he can verify the name of students that studied directly under him.

Grandmaster James Shyun wants the 8 eight praying mantis system to grow and flourish. He has been putting all his efforts to making it happen.

I apologize to you guys for not being forthcoming in details to what I know about 8 step. I had to talk to my master first to confirm my status with his school. He also updated me on what has been going on with him and his schools. I have not been actively part of his school for about 15 years, so whatever I say about the system may not be 100% accurate. I am sure that if you have any questions on 8 step, his current students can provide an answer.

With great respect to all,

:)

[EarthDragon]

May I ask why you said you are still legitamatly part of the 8 step system but your name does not appear on the website? Do you see my point? My name is not on he website either although I lived with him for over a year and authorized by him to teach 8 step , neither is Dean, Robert, George, Steve or Tony.

The only students on the new website are the ones who pay 100.00 per month to be on there. But he has many others who choose not to continue affiliation but still ranked by him as Shrfu's

Are you insinuating that I am not one of the students whom learned directly under him? Please check the mantis cave and my website for certification.



Also he can verify the name of students that studied directly under him.

Grandmaster James Shyun wants the 8 eight praying mantis system to grow and flourish. He has been putting all his efforts to making it happen.

agreed

OK Kin, sorry you couldnt answer my questions about the sets, thats your progitive. I wish you well in your travels...

[Michael Dasargo]

Moderator:

This following message has to do with both story and forms. Please feel free to delete one of the two duplicate messages based on which thread is more appropriate for the post. Thanks in advance.

Shifu Puyot is having trouble posting from his work computer.
The following message was sent to me by Shifu Puyot:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Puyot
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 8:44 AM
> To: Michael Dasargo (E-mail)
> Subject: Kung Fu Mag Post
>
> Mike,
>
> I tried to post but again it kick it out. Could you please post this for
> me on the thread about kin and eight step forms.
>
>
>
> I thought I would try to give some clarification on some of the topics
> that have come up. These are my experiences at the time.
> I remember Dean, Robert, Kin and all the others that were there at the
> time.
>
>
> I learned nine forms from Master Sun over a five year period. Around 1990
> I was back in San Diego and commuting to SF to study. On one of these
> trips I noticed that forms had changed. The way I had learned them was
> not the way they were now being taught to the new students. (techniques
> had been changed) I confronted Master Sun about this in a closed door
> session. What he told me was that he did not trust people and had changed
> some of the material. I was very upset and told him I was out of there.
> He promised he would "teach me right". The damage had been done, I could
> not trust what I was learning and walked out. We talk and over the years
> we have had dinner on several occasions. I may not agree with the way
> Master Sun does things in business but he did tech me more about
> application than all my other teachers.
>
> Now for the forms:
> 1. Chi Shou
> 2. Siu Fan CHe
> 3. Lee Pee
> 4. Da Fan Che
> 5. Tang lag Shou
> 6. Lan Jit
> 7. Luen huan Jeung
> 8. Jak Yu
> 9. ?
>
> I do not remember the name of the last two sets. I will try to look at my
> old notes.
>
> As for the ground form. master Sun said it was that last form taught in
> the system. I never saw the form but he did tell me he was the only
> person to learn the set from Master Wei. I remember Su Yu Chang going to
> the school one time. When i asked Sun what he was doing in SF he said he
> was trying to learn the ground form from him. He said said Chang was the
> only other person that had the entire system with the exception of the
> ground form.
>
> Jake, you had asked about any other ground forms. My teacher Steve
> Laurette did study with Chan Sao Chung. The monkey king in Hong Kong. I
> learned the three Pek Kwar hand forms and one ground form (Sai Ping Da
> Tong Kuen) The form consisted of rolling, twisat ups, leg locks with your
> legs and sweeping. I think I could still do the form with the help of my
> notes.
>
>
> On a side note: when ever Sun would do a throw in practice, he would
> always finish the enemy with a Chin Na move on the ground.
>
>
> From back in the day,
>
> Tony P

[EarthDragon]

Michael,
thanks so much for the post from Tony. Although I have never met him as I statrted in 1989 I have mad respect for what he has accomplised.

It is interesting that he saw what james Shyun was doing. he would always tell us that the senoir students learned the REAL way and that the younger students had to prove themselves and he did not trust anyone with his "inheritted" system. I teach the same way I was taught...... no holding back. I see the shyun version of 8 step and it is much different now then it was back when I learned. who knows what version is right. sometimes he would forget moves right in the midddle of the sets and we would kid him that he changed them to much he cant even remember. LOL but anyways I am glad Tony stepped up and spoke out about this. many of us are still concerned about the furture and what is left of 8 step.... be well...

Its a shame that Kin would not elebrate on what he started. As BEI said he avoided the real questions when they came at him.. Oh well know we know what and whome James Shyun meant when he said mistrust.........

[Three Harmonies]

Puyot Laoshi-via-Desargo Laoshi
Thank you. So Sun was the only one to learn the ground form eh :rolleyes: ?

Did Chan do a lot of apps? I heard he is mostly forms.

Thanks
Jake :)

[Michael Dasargo]

Hey Jake,

I just got back from having lunch with Puyot Laoshi. He recalled Chang being at Suns school to learn the ground form. Apparently, Sun had high respect for Su Yu Chang because he (Chang) was known in Taiwan as the one who all the Mantis Boxers on the island invested their knowledge into.

M.

[Three Harmonies]

Desargo laoshi
Su indeed did have a reputation on the island that was most favorable. One of the best of his generation without a doubt. Cool that they shared knowledge like that.
As for Matute being all that he is said to be.........I have heard from various individuals that such stories may not be as accurate as first thought. Not sure though since I have no first hand knowledge of any of it.
Thanks
Jake :)

[Michael Dasargo]

Hey Jake,

Thanks for the respectful title, but please call me Mike. Anyway, I do take back my previous statements about Matute...it was impulsive and a quick recollection of what I read on his site. But luckily a good friend smacked me upside the head with a good reminder of the validity of those claims.

Anyway, back on the question of Apps...

All that I can say is that Su Shifu learned from all the TLQ teachers on the island, and that I am currently unaware of any experiences Su Shifu has had. However, I do know of Sun Sifu's reputation as a fighter and a thug (no disrespect). I understand that Sun Shifu was a no BS guy when it came to fighting, and yet he highly respected Su Shifu.

M.

[-N-]

However, I do know of Sun Sifu's reputation as a fighter and a thug (no disrespect). I understand that Sun Shifu was a no BS guy when it came to fighting, and yet he highly respected Su Shifu.Hehehe.. I had heard that he was a badass. I did see him at one of the Lily Lau events at Golden Gate park years ago. It was very obvious from how he moved that he was the real deal.

N.

[EarthDragon]

Michael D,
Again thanks for posting Tony's thoughts about the sets. Quick question.

I noticed that in his list he had #5 as Tang Lang Shou.
As it is taught now #5 is Lan Jie (intercept)and tang lang Shou is not taught.

Also wondering how many of the 8 sets listed are specific to 8 step. I would like to know where shyun got those sets from. As mentioned in another thread he added the tan tui and orignally said they came from Wei, though we now know that is not true.

So I am wondering what else he added to 8 step that was never implemeted ort taught for the 3 generations before him. Thank you....

[Michael Dasargo]

Hello ED,

Actually, the list is from memory, so the chronological sequence may be out of order.

Shifu Puyot wanted me to clarify that in no way is he an authority on 8-Step or Xun Guang Long. He is merely sharing his notes from his experience and perspective.

With that being said:

Tang Lang Shou is not the same as the one represented by Gao Dao Sheng.
Shifu Puyot recalls Xun Shigong referring to the list as all 8 Step.
In Wei Xiao Tangs book, "Pratical Praying Mantis", Xun pointed out a few "mistakes" when the book refers to the sets and which system they are associated with. Xun wrote notes in Shifu Puyot's book identifying which sets came from specific branches of TLQ.

As far as where Xun got the sets from, he may be the only who can tell you. Everything else will always be questionable and subjective.

In regards to "old sets" vs. "new sets" it is my personal opinion that when the general public (people with no fighting experience) began to learn TLQ, the teachers needed to adapt by adding developmental sets to transition the students into the sophisticated movements and principles indicative of TLQ. I don't have a doubt in my mind that Xun Shigong did the same thing.

Regards,
M.

[EarthDragon]

Michael, thanks so much for the quick repy, and thank Tony for the info.

you said

Xun wrote notes in Shifu Puyot's book identifying which sets came from specific branches of TLQ.

this is exacly what I am lookig for...

As far as where Xun got the sets from, he may be the only who can tell you. Everything else will always be questionable and subjective.

Shyun had taught me that all 10 sets were form Wei, though recent findings make this untrue.

In regards to "old sets" vs. "new sets" it is my personal opinion that when the general public (people with no fighting experience) began to learn TLQ, the teachers needed to adapt by adding developmental sets to transition the students into the sophisticated movements and principles indicative of TLQ. I don't have a doubt in my mind that Xun Shigong did the same thing.

Agreed however when I moved out to S.F. to live and train directly under him. he told me that after 6 years in the system I should now be shown the correct way as taught to him by Master Wei. At the time I didnt know there was any variation which to me there shouldnt be, but the whole trust thing always came up after he was burned by Kin the starter of this thread.
This tainted Shyuns teachings and he changed so much even he would get confused who he taught what to who!!!!!!!!!!
then he would find himself changing the movements in he sets in the same day. I have them on tape with out editing the mistakes the "MASTER" made while demonstraitng the first 5 sets for us sifu trainee's back in 95


I teach what and how I was taught by him so my students dont know the new way versus the old way. But this was apparent to them when other schools got together and did the forms differently. They realized they had learned he proper way. LOL well at the time who knows now?

I guess i am trying to find out the truth from the untruth. This is much harder than it sounds. But little by little I am getting there, with the help of peoplew ho hjave herlped me such as your self tony and many others that know who they are.. wink wink. thanks to all.

[commoner]

ED,

YOU KNOW AFTER EX_8STEP (KIN) GAVE HIS SIDE OF STORY. YOU STILL BELIEVED HE BETRAYED SHYUN? WHO ELSE CAN BACK YOUR STORY?

WILL SOMEONE WHO IS STILL AN ACTIVE STUDENT OF SHYUN COME FORWARD AND STRAIGHTEN OUT THIS SH**T ABOUT THIS EX STUDENT OF SHYUN. AND PLEASE PROVIDE FACTS DIRECTLY FROM SHYUN HIMSELF IF AT ALL POSSIBLE!!

PERSONALLY I AM NOT 100% CONVINCE BY YOUR STORY. THIS MAN IS NOT FROM TAIWAN AND MICHAEL DASARGO CONFIRMED WITH HIS SHIFU TONY (THANX MICHAEL). SO WHO IS REALLY LYING KIN OR SHYUN? WHO IS TRYING TO DECEIVE SHYUN'S STUDENTS AND FOR WHAT REASON. WHAT DOES SHYUN OR KIN HAVE TO LOSE BY LYING. MAYBE SHYUN TAUGHT KIN EVERYTHING IN PRIVATE AND SINCE HE IS NOT TEACHING, HE MADE THE RUMOR UP IN ORDER TO BREAK THE LINK TO HIS SCHOOL. POSSIBLY TO KEEP OTHERS AWAY FROM KIN DUE TO THE TURMOIL WITH THE BUFFALO SCHOOLS. A CONSPIRACY???

ON A SIDE NOTE, IN SOME OF YOUR PAST POST YOU WENT ALONG WITH SAYING SHYUN NEVER LEARNED THE REAL 8 STEP OR NOT THE REAL SOLE INHERITOR OF WEI'S 8 STEP. WHY ARE YOU STILL BOTHERING WITH SHYUN'S VERSION OF 8 STEP AND WHY NOT MOVE ON WITH A DIFFERENT MASTER THAT TEACHES REAL 8 STEP LIKE CHANG, PAUL LIN, OR OTHER WEI'S SENIOR STUDENTS. YOU NEVER GAVE US AN ANSWER. WOULDN'T YOU BE TEACHING YOUR STUDENTS SHYUN'S FALSE SYSTEM AND NOT THE TRUE TRADITIONAL 8 STEP.

ED, I DON'T MEAN TO DISRESPECT YOU, BUT I AM ONLY BEING THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. ;)

:confused: :rolleyes:

[commoner]

Ed,

Please clarify the discrepencies of your posts. In this thread to Michael, you said you started in 1989 and have not met his shifu Tony. But in an old post to Michael (see below), you stated you were around during the years of robert the photographer 1986-87-88. You said you met shifu Tony during that time. This was during the time that shifu Tony was studying in SF. I think we are all confuse of your account. Please clarify the discrepencies. :confused:

PS - Again I mean no disrespect only need clarification. :)

Michael D. - Please help clarify the confusion.


EarthDragon08-24-2005, 08:29 PM
Mr Desargo,
Please say hi to tony for me. I met him many years ago in the Irving street school upstairs and still have him on tape doing the 40 throws on the the blue carpet.

Ask him hwe will remember, also mention that I was around in the years of robert the photographer 1986-87-88He took all the large pictures 24 x36 of the then young shyun 4 of which I still own and have hanging in my school.

I beleive I am the only one who has these prints as well as the original magazines autographed by Shyun. Tony should remember all thsese things, and yes Dean is tony's 5th generation kung fu brother and the starter of the ACMAF

he is part of the original group of students from the 80's dean then moved to Buffalo and produced 5 sifu of his own those being kevin, george , steve, jack, and jerry. I got raqnked up to 5th silver then was fortunate enough to be accpeted to move to SF and live at teh school and got ranked shrfu dircetly from shyun as did only 3 people in the US the old fashion wa, , up until the money making scheme came into play.

three harmonies
I can tell you about thse money schemes as I know first hand.

1. federation dues 100.00 month to call your kwon kung fu usa, supposed to pay for flight and lodging for the annual sifu camp.. IT DOES NOT

2. shrfu uniform embroidered 450.00
3. solid gold mantis sifu pin 250.00 it is plated brass, I took mine to a jeweler.
4. grade testing 35.00 for sash and certificate, OK this one is ledgite
5. shrfu test 5,000.00 OK this one just sucks fro everyone
6. monthly collections for mantis mountian varies

those are right off the top of my head, those who do not comply with these fee's/ dues even though they are certified 8 step shrfu's and instructors are not even listed on the 8 step website.. howeve4r i was sent a letter that if i would like to pay 1,200.00 for past federation dues m name would be included on the site... I CHOOSE NOT TO.......

[EarthDragon]

Commoner,
wow who are you? you come out of the woodwork with so much information about 8 step but you only have 11 posts? can you indetify yourself for us? are you posting under a fake mane? for what reason? however for you because of perhaps your genuine interest and non disrepecting quesitons and comments I will try to answer your questions and clear up the confusion. I might have explained myself incorrectly.

I started 8 step in 1989 in clarence NY. I was previously in Gojyu ryu since 1983. I went to a seminar hosted by Dean and James Shyun where i met several of Shyuns students from S.F After the seminar I was so impressed I joined the ACMAF in 1989 and began to train with Dean untill 1995 when master Shyun allowed me to move to S.F and train direcly under him until i reached shrfu grade. It was there I met Robert who had since stoped training in 8 step but he gave me 4 huge pictures of a very young master shyun performing the stances that i still have hanging in my school to this day. i heard tony's name several times while living there but never met him personally. I was given a tape of him and someone doing the 40 throws. I did meet several of the old students whom stopped by the school to visit, like young danny shyuns golden child. and Robert and others also whos name escapes me who married a girl from mexico, he to also knew quite a bit of 8 step. So I have a tape of tony doing the throws but never met sorry about the confusion. my mistake.

As far as Kin goes who knows. truth or not perhaps the ony ones who need to know the truth are Kin and Shyun.

And yes many things lead me to believe shyun perhaps is not the sole inheritor as he claims. But i got married and cannot travel to learn from other masters of 8 step I am not young anymore and not able to move around like I did in the 90's have a wife, business and home.

Commoner no disrespect taken, just please clairify who you are and why you care so much? are you hiding something? I hope I covered everything. if not please PM me so we dont waste board time. be well.

[commoner]

Hello EarthDragon,

Thank you for your frank account. As my profile states I’m living in SF. I did meet Dean and Shyun briefly during a visit to his school many years ago. A past friend of mine whom I lost touch with (Christina K.) took me to the school to check it out. If you ask Dean he will remember Christina. She is half Japanese/Swedish(??). The last I heard she was in Colorado attending med school. That was many years ago.

After many years working in the business world, I am tired and was looking for a change. I am presently enrolled in the master program in UC Berkeley majoring in Asian Studies with a focus in Asian American studies. The Asian culture especially the Chinese and Japanese are my favorite. I will be finishing my master degree after next spring semester and I will continue on to the PhD program in Asian studies. My ultimate goal is to move to China to experience its culture first hand. I hope to do it within the next 5 years.
As for the martial arts, I learned Northern Shaolin from a student of Wing Lam for a few years. I have good friends in other MA like 7 Star & 8 Step. As you can see I made a post about a 7 Star form I learned. We teach each other what we know to get a familiarity of different martial art specifically northern styles.
Presently I am working on a thesis about the Chinese Kung Fu culture in today’s America. I hope possibly to expand my thesis and turn it into a book. This is where I want my real name to be anonymous. I hope the proceeds from the book can help fund part of my PhD studies.
A friend of mine whom often visit this site told me about the politics that were going on within the 8 Step communities. He said this would be helpful to my martial arts portion of my thesis. I joined this forum to get a first hand look on what goes on in the Internet in regards to the MA community.
My participation in these threads is not with bad intentions. I only wanted to document other people’s reaction and response for my studies. My studies of different Chinese MA is strictly for my own purpose of understand this particular aspect of the Chinese culture. I don’t have any intention to teach because I have no desire and do not have an allegiance to any particular styles. I hope I shed some light on my background.
I had also hoped some of Shyun’s current students would come forward to provide more insights.
To answer your questions regarding how fast I gain the knowledge about 8 step. I have a propensity for investigative journalism. I did research prior to my posting.
PS – This is where my name “commoner” means. I am not a master but a common person in the MA community

[EarthDragon]

Commoner,
Well with that explanation I apologize for comming across as frank and harsh. I saw your post as an attack on my old teacher and friend Dean. I sometimes jump the gun and go on defense mode when new members post things that seem trollish and I always ask them for thier motives and reson for thier posts. please excuse my aprehension. I will be happy to help you with any questions you have. You can always PM me so as not t waste the board time. PS love SF and miss it dearly.... Dean still lives there in the sunset, but does not speak to Shyun anymore. be well. PM me if you wish