Northern Mantis vs Southern Mantis

[Mega_Fist]

Right, I already know the answer but just checkin to see if you do.

Who would win- Northern Mantis or Southern Mantis?

I will only accept answers if they have a good reason.

[Ben Gash]

Deep breath, all together now: THE BEST ONE ON THE DAY! This is so lame, both are totally valid systems, this is just a pointless troll (a bit like you).

[Fei jiao]

I got a better one!
Between Batman and Spiderman, who would win?

[Ben Gash]

As Batman has no special powers per se, I'd have to go with Mr Parker ;)

[Mega_Fist]

As Batman has no special powers per se, I'd have to go with Mr Parker ;)

You accuse me of trolling!!! Unbelievable. I am trying to create an interesting debate. I wish everyone would stop being so racist against me.

[Andrew Brookman]

It is quite sad to see that perhaps the more seasoned members of the forum treat the newer ones with lack of respect and do not respect someone's post. In my opinion the true way of the Mantis is through the heart of the "Zoul" and the spirituality of Wei Lang Ban's tiger fist.




"The people in the Navy look on motherhood as being compatible with being a woman. This is the true way to achieve a spirituality beyond the normality of everyday life."

[TonyM.]

No Andrew we're just tired of retarded trolling.

[Lu Bu]

Thread starts, hilarity ensues...amirite?

:rolleyes:

[blackmantis]

Andrew Brookman does sort of have a point. I don't like trolling etc. but is it not possible that Mega_Fist is actually trying to start a proper debate? He's obtained a pretty bad reputation but this thread doesn't seem too troll-laden! I think people should not be so quick to judge and should be more tolerant.

Mega_Fist, it's impossible to say who would win because it depends on the circumstances of the fight. A more interesting question is "What are the differences between Northern Mantis and Southern Mantis?"

S

[Ben Gash]

Exactly, but he didn't ask that, did he? He asked an inflammatory question, offered no real input of his own, and bailed, typical troll behaviour from someone who is typically a troll.

[Shadow Skill]

you claim you know the answer to the question of who is better. So who would win and why do you think that? My Sifu used to tell me that his school (spm) in FT. Pierce FL. would go to the Wah Lum temple and crush them. Personaly I've never seen ant Northern Praying mantis in real life so I can't really form an opinion on the subject. But it be I fight I would love to see

[Ou Ji]

My Sifu used to tell me that his school (spm) in FT. Pierce FL. would go to the Wah Lum temple and crush them. Personaly I've never seen ant Northern Praying mantis in real life so I can't really form an opinion on the subject. But it be I fight I would love to see

Cool, you mean like challenge fights or something?

I heard Poo Yee's SPM guys are pretty good fighters. Is that the school you're talking about?

I thought Poo Yee and Chan Pui were good friends. What prompted them to fight?

[Jook Lum]

Regardless of style the better fighter would win!


" You accuse me of trolling!!! Unbelievable. I am trying to create an interesting debate. I wish everyone would stop being so racist against me."Mega_Fist


To be called a troll is NOT racism, it is an opinion of a personality reflection.

[Lu Bu]

"Regardless of style the better fighter would win!"

Truth indeed.

"My Sifu used to tell me that his school (spm) in FT. Pierce FL. would go to the Wah Lum temple and crush them."

SPM versus Wah Lum would be a highly amusing thing to see, also. And please, do not judge other northern mantis styles against Wah Lum. Not trying to bash Wah Lum, as I used to practice it, but it's not the most...erm...traditional mantis style, I guess you could say. And oh look...I seem to have opened a rusty, old, highly aggressive can of worms. :(

I have always wanted to see a highly skilled Northern Mantis fighter against an equally skilled Southern Mantis fighter. I have seen both but never in opposition to one another.

[blackmantis]

8-Step praying mantis versus Bamboo Forest Temple

That would be cool!

[Mega_Fist]

Thank you for taking this debate seriously. I would say that Southern Mantis is more spiritual and Northern Mantis is more philisophical and chi-orientated.

[BIGG S-MANTIS]

I Just Want To Know What The Difference Is Between The Two Styles. To See It In Action Would Be The Coolest Thing Ever

[mantis108]

Well, here's what I could imagine:

The SPM guy (whatever styles) is going to assume a ready stance.

1) Feet about shoulder width, toes inward and gripping the floor, and relatively high and relaxed yet all slacks in the body structure tightened.

2) Hands up in some kind of a guard (bai Jong Sau) most likely right pheonix eye punch and left hand a palm.

3) Elbows down and closing access to the center line.

4) Head leveled to lower (chin tugged). Chest hollow, back rounded, and Dan Tien is firm.

This would also have the hip a little more squarely facing the opponent. The advantage is the it will have all weapons available to him.

The NPM guy (say a TJPMer) is going to be mobile more or less in a Bi Shi (closing posture). He will be bringing in the Monkey disposition and footwork for searching an opening in the ready stance of the opponent.

Assuming there is not eye poking and groin shorts, here's what will happen.

Strategy for the SPM guy:

It is more than likely the SPM will wait for the other guy to initiate.

1) Stop Kick to the knee of the opponent and pheonix eye punch (PEP) to an openning of the opponent preferrably a weak point (ie throat)

2) Toe trap and PEP in rapid succession. Follow in if opp. retreats in time. Maintain straight line attacks.

3) If opp attemps to block punch while arm stretched out; clam down hard with elbows as breaks or with grinding motion to trap temporary. Or some types of hooking punch or down angled punch as "leaking" hand.

4) Keep opp in front and at bay. Don't want to give any access to the side or back. Stomp and stop kicks to distroy the opp's lower line attacks.

5) End fight as soon as possible. Use angle entry avoid getting hit as much as possible but will absorb punishment if need be (points deducted in that case).

6) use sallow, spit, surface, and sink to unbalance the opp in close range and to add more omph to the strikes.

Strategy for the NPM guy:

It is more than likely that the NPM guy will initiate some form of attack (ie a back hand slap.) and attempt a disciplined plan of offense.

1) will use the 12 key words with 5 types of Shou Fa (ie Gou Lou Cai, Fanche Lulu, Mo Pan Shou, etc..) for entry and take whatever that is available. Discipline takes over after the initial clash.

2) close gap as quickly as possible. Sticking and leaning as soon as an opening is availble. Using Shuai (throwing) and Na (grappling) to takedown.

3) Dodging, Deceiving, leaping and shifting to get to the side and/or back of opp.

4) In close range elbow hard and knee hard.

5) Takedown and establish control. Ground fighting if necessary.

BTW, that's only my perspective and experience as NPM guy (CCK TCPM). Others may drastically different. I would take as long as it needs to finish the fight. My motto is "make haste without being hasty", "using slow to yield to the fast" and "Don't fight fire with fire, be like water...". ;)

The rest of course is depended upon the contestants and it's highly speculative until proven with actual match.

Mantis108

[Lu Bu]

Nice post, Mantis108. :D

[Andrew Brookman]

Well, here's what I could imagine:

The SPM guy (whatever styles) is going to assume a ready stance.

1) Feet about shoulder width, toes inward and gripping the floor, and relatively high and relaxed yet all slacks in the body structure tightened.

2) Hands up in some kind of a guard (bai Jong Sau) most likely right pheonix eye punch and left hand a palm.

3) Elbows down and closing access to the center line.

4) Head leveled to lower (chin tugged). Chest hollow, back rounded, and Dan Tien is firm.

This would also have the hip a little more squarely facing the opponent. The advantage is the it will have all weapons available to him.

The NPM guy (say a TJPMer) is going to be mobile more or less in a Bi Shi (closing posture). He will be bringing in the Monkey disposition and footwork for searching an opening in the ready stance of the opponent.

Assuming there is not eye poking and groin shorts, here's what will happen.

Strategy for the SPM guy:

It is more than likely the SPM will wait for the other guy to initiate.

1) Stop Kick to the knee of the opponent and pheonix eye punch (PEP) to an openning of the opponent preferrably a weak point (ie throat)

2) Toe trap and PEP in rapid succession. Follow in if opp. retreats in time. Maintain straight line attacks.

3) If opp attemps to block punch while arm stretched out; clam down hard with elbows as breaks or with grinding motion to trap temporary. Or some types of hooking punch or down angled punch as "leaking" hand.

4) Keep opp in front and at bay. Don't want to give any access to the side or back. Stomp and stop kicks to distroy the opp's lower line attacks.

5) End fight as soon as possible. Use angle entry avoid getting hit as much as possible but will absorb punishment if need be (points deducted in that case).

6) use sallow, spit, surface, and sink to unbalance the opp in close range and to add more omph to the strikes.

Strategy for the NPM guy:

It is more than likely that the NPM guy will initiate some form of attack (ie a back hand slap.) and attempt a disciplined plan of offense.

1) will use the 12 key words with 5 types of Shou Fa (ie Gou Lou Cai, Fanche Lulu, Mo Pan Shou, etc..) for entry and take whatever that is available. Discipline takes over after the initial clash.

2) close gap as quickly as possible. Sticking and leaning as soon as an opening is availble. Using Shuai (throwing) and Na (grappling) to takedown.

3) Dodging, Deceiving, leaping and shifting to get to the side and/or back of opp.

4) In close range elbow hard and knee hard.

5) Takedown and establish control. Ground fighting if necessary.

BTW, that's only my perspective and experience as NPM guy (CCK TCPM). Others may drastically different. I would take as long as it needs to finish the fight. My motto is "make haste without being hasty", "using slow to yield to the fast" and "Don't fight fire with fire, be like water...". ;)

The rest of course is depended upon the contestants and it's highly speculative until proven with actual match.

Mantis108

"Mantis108" (if that is your real name) you clearly have too much time on your hands - instead try to practice the tiger spiritual. I'm sure I can help you out with this famous quote by me: "If you are a tiger, then you are no one's lesser. If you are a dragon, then you are no one's lesser. If you are an idiot, then you are everyone's lesser. If you are a tiger, then you are someone's lesser. The true tiger spiritual achieved through not just wisdom, but acknowledgement of your dark and light sides."

[CHAZ]

"Mantis108" (if that is your real name) you clearly have too much time on your hands - instead try to practice the tiger spiritual. I'm sure I can help you out with this famous quote by me: "If you are a tiger, then you are no one's lesser. If you are a dragon, then you are no one's lesser. If you are an idiot, then you are everyone's lesser. If you are a tiger, then you are someone's lesser. The true tiger spiritual achieved through not just wisdom, but acknowledgement of your dark and light sides."

What:confused:

Excellent post from Mantis108

[ThaiMantis]

...Good Effort Mantis108 ;)

[mantis108]

Thanks for the support. I really appreicate it.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[Frogman]

I agree Mantis 108 has always been a great source of information. I also can see how the main question is seen as trolling. Is this style better then that style or my big brother can beet up your big brother… is a bit immature. I think it would have been better put to compare the strengths and weakness of each style, and how they can be used to counter each other. Much like mantis 108 did. To say that southern is better then northern is to say I train in southern and know nothing about northern styles, but since my Sifu said we’re better then we must be…. I have not seen much southern mantis but from what I did see it is mostly hand movements. I do like the lunging forward grabbing movements. I can not detail how I would fight any given style and it would be foolish to generalize it in that fashion. As even in the same style different people move differently. From my perspective I would be more interested in my opponents stature then style. I have not trained long enough to know this style or that style, so for me it is more important to understand my style. If the opponent is rooted or bigger then I am I would be more inclined to evade and trap the arm. I am a firm believer that if you can control the arm you can control the body. Even if it only gives you enough time to run away, and avoid getting the sh!t knocked out of you. If the opponent is smaller or more agile or just jumping around I would try to adhere to them and then find they weakest angle and knock them down, and of course if necessary run away. I do not believe in fighting someone else’s style. If they like to box or wrestle I am not going to try it their way I will stick with my own method. As for the challenge a the temple in Orlando, how about some dates and names it might be a bit more convincing if you could provide more then my Sifu said… Did this individual go to the temple and fight some one or was it more like they won in a tournament??? Seems any two equally skilled fighter have equal chance of winning and if one wins the first time the other may very well win the next. Any given Sunday.

Happy Halloween everybody…
RibHit
fm
:D

[Frogman]

I have a question in the comparison of NPM and SPM. Does SPM use the same 12 word poem? And how did SPM come about? I have heard some stories but I’m not sure if they were about SPM or just different versions of the NPM story. The whole kicks from the north and hands from the south is a bit general and has been used to describe kung fu as a whole and not so much individual styles. Would like to hear more about Southern styles. Not just PM.


Thanks,
fm
:)

[brothernumber9]

depends on which line of SPM one follows. The origins or developments are explained differently, although several lines tie back to Fukien Shaolin of a Hakkanese monk. Some lines say the style was born of the observation of a fight between a mantis and a bird. Others may say that SPM isn't really mantis at all and that it was labeled that during dangerous times to hide it from persecutors and that it was developed entirely outside of any shaolin.

[J-hon]

http://cclib.nsu.ru/projects/satbi/satbi-e/martart/wushu/sm.html - Great resource on SPM.

But I'm really interested in reading about NPM. If anyone knows any informative sites can you please link?

BTW.... SPM would OBVIOUSLY win! Why? Cause its my style. Am I terrible for saying that? I dont see why I would be. Its like me saying that the Eagles are the best. Why? Cuz I live in Philly! Its called pride and I very much enjoy rooting for the the home team just like I root for my style. I don't think its immature at all... I'm just having a little fun. But seriously though.... Jook Lum Southern Praying Mantis is ultimate. Seriously.

J-Hon

[Frogman]

Thanks guys.
J-hon I can agree with that. Cause the Buccaneers are the best and even though I live in the south I must root for the northern style cause that's the style I train in. So no that does make you a bad person, just misguided as far as the Eagles anyway, LOL. I am kidding since the Bucs will be lucky to pull 500 this year way there playing. Seriously though the style and techniques are important but it is the fighter that makes it mean something. I can do hook puck grapple all day long does not mean it will work as well for me as it would say mantis108 or others. I will have to check out the website later as I have to get to class.
Thanks again,

fm
:p

[BIGG S-MANTIS]

Wow. Mantis 108 That Was Deep Thanks For The Big Picture. I Think In Just Excited To Learn More About Both Styles Being That Im A First Year Student, The Way U Broke That Down Was Amazing

[Shadow Skill]

previously mega fist stated he knew the answer about who would win. And the winner is..............

[BIGG S-MANTIS]

Yeah Who Do U Think Would Win. Most Would Say The Better Fighter But What Makes A Better Fighter. The One Who Threw More Punches And Did The Hitting Or The One Who Used His Foot Work And Defensive Hand Techniques And Never Got Hit

[RizMan]

:cool: 1. Do not boast of ability or wealth. Do not act arrogantly. Practice humility.
2. The highly educated must not underestimate others.
3. Speak in a low voice with respect to seniors and elders.
4. Be polite and chivalrous in front of ladies. Do not use off color language.
5. No one sided talk in favor of wealth or money.
6. Do not blame yourself in poor living.
7. Speak the necessary words and keep from excess with silence.
8. Patience is the antidote for an angry tongue.
9. Do not exaggerate or speak untrue.
10. Do not boast of yourself, your school, or your teachers.
11. Do not criticize others, especially other schools, teachers or students.
12. Do not indulge in too much imagination. Reach for the stars, keeping your feet on the ground.
13. Do not be stubborn to your point of view.
14. Always be wholesome, clean and true speaking from the heart.

[BIGG S-MANTIS]

Not Boasting About It By No Means He Said He Knew, I Just Wanted To Know Why He Thought He Knew

[Frogman]

J-hon, I have been reading the link you posted and must say it is very interesting. I still believe that any given style can beet any other given style on any given day with equally matched fighters. I do northern style but we have some southern flavor in it and I can appreciate getting up close and personal. I do think it would take more then three years to learn such skill. Now back in the day when folks would train all day, every day I can see that it would be more likely and of course they had a strong motivation. War is hell! So in interest of conversation how would two equally matched students be determined??? If it take less time to learn the southern style would it be appropriate to say that a five year student of the south has the advantage? Then if you take more time to learn a system then I would think the information has a greater depth. So a ten year student of the north would have the advantage,, maybe not…. I personally believe that knowing a few good techniques and practicing them over and over would produce instinct like reaction. But after fifteen twenty years now you have two students that have been practicing for many years one who has the fast leant aggressive system and one who has the in-depth slow learnt precision????
Anyway the one thing I have gathered NPM and SPM are two different styles and to compare the two in a sense of who is the better fighter takes away from many of the other comparisons, of a technical sense.

fm

[BIGG S-MANTIS]

Now I Can Agree With That And Most Would Say The Better More Experienced Fighter Would Win But Just Knowing A Few Techniques That Are On Point No Matter How Much Skill U Have U Cant Say Who Would Win Be It You've Practiced For Only 2 Months Or Ten Years Its What The One Of These 2 Persons Know What To Do And How To Out Think One Another