Chinese vs Japanese

[Ronin22]

I was wondering if there are any people out there who are taking a traditional Chinese and Japanese MA at the same time? I'm curious because I might be traveling down this road at some point and I was hoping to get some insight as to how difficult it would be to study to different arts at the same time. I'd appreciate any thoughts


Thanks

[bodhitree]

Shaolin do would be born!;)

[David Jamieson]

I was taught isshinryu when younger.

Frankly, I find Okinawan karate to be not all that dissimilar from chinese martial art. Plenty of tiger, plenty of circular moves, alot about angles etc etc.
Mind you, my martial art knowledge is on the overall not the most broad with only a few styles studied. I have seen cma that doesn't resemble karate in anyway, but I've also seen many cma that use japanese weapons in tehir traditinal forms.

go figure, it's a big fusion thing here.

I think many North Americans don't care if they mix and match...as can be seen in many many websites for many many schools. Or even in the movies. My most recent favourite was the tibetan ninja squad in batman begins. lol

[Scott R. Brown]

I have trained in

1) American eclectic Shaolin derivative (Not Shaolin Do)
2) Boxing
3) White Crane
4) Tai Chi Chuan
5) Aikido
6) Aki-jujitsu
7) Judo
8) Aiki-ken
9) Aiki-jo

Maybe a few others, I can't remember them all sometimes!

[Scott R. Brown]

Oh yeah, to the rest of your question:

Normally it is recommended that you be proficient in one style before you experiment with others. I was in the MA for 15 years or more before I started training in Aikido and Aiki-jutsu. I found them fairly easy to grasp. My learning curve was very short.

[Mr Punch]

I'd done aikido for six years and reached shodan before I started wing chun and tai chi, though I'd always learnt bits and bobs of other things and sparred with other styles, so I'd always had some exposure to other principles. I didn't have too many problems and now can incorporate elements of all of my arts into my sparring (now inc shooto: boxing, muay thai, jj and wrestling).

There are crossovers in the principles with most arts and the body only moves so many ways.

I think Scott is probably right, that for most people it's probably better to be adequate at one thing before you mess with others. Of course, everybody's different, so some people may have more trouble and some people may have less, and some people (maybe You Can Guess Who) would dismiss things without having had any experience :rolleyes: or because of his/her failure to succeed with more than one thing at once.

[Wong Fei Hong]

Ronin22, i have done bothe trad cma and jma.
The difficulty arises if you do a martial art that puts you in a specific shell, for example if you do wing chun and karate, its difficult because they have 2 tottaly different styles of sparring. Its confusing because you dont know which to fall back to.
However many many styles of m.a have at a higher level the same concepts same moves different hand positions. For example a tiger block or a shuto block (knife hand) one from hung gar and one from karate is pretty much the same concept move your forearm inside to outside meet the opponents arm only one uses outspread fingers and one a chop style hand.
So it depends how you look at it, also as an end result ideally you want to get the hell out of the way and hit the other guy. So if both styles teach this method of get out of the way and hit him then its all good !
Some styles are so differnet they are complementary on the other hand, things like jujitsu and hung gar one is stand up fighting and the other is throwing, and they use the same stances.
Other arts are very very similar like aikido and taichi you will learn to flow withboth of them but apply them differently.

The thing i find most aggravating in training different styles is the difference in stance work, when one person is trying to tell you to kick from cat stance and another is telling you to kick in bow and arrow and makes you spar in these respectively you get a bit muddled as to your basic stance.
Other arts like you could say sport taekwon do or relaxation tai chi you can do them as a supplement to your martial art either for stretching or gaining speed or buildign up internal power etc.
Hope this helps.

Most important is to find a good teacher, and thats what counts.

[wiz cool c]

I study Judo and the interrnal arts now and they go great together no problem at all. In fact judo seems perfect for filling the gaps no ground work in kung fu.

[Ronin22]

Thanks for the replies.

Wong Fei Hong hit on the two styles I was thinking of getting into which is Aikido and Tai Chi. I kinda thought these two would be similiar but just wondered exactly how difficult it would be to seperate the techniques, language, etc. I'm not new to MA I have some years in Kyokushin and Krav Maga (I don't think I can consider that a MA for some reason) so maybe it will be easier for me but who knows I guess the only way to find out is to give it a shot.

[Ray Pina]

Kill all the Japs:mad: ......

Oh, did I just say that? Must be that Chinese growing in me.;)

[Mr Punch]

Kill all the Japs:mad: ......

Oh, did I just say that? Must be that Chinese growing in me.;)That was funny.

Pr!ck.

Oh did I just say that? Must be the 'Kill all pr!cks' growing in me. ;)

[Mr Punch]

Thanks for the replies.

Wong Fei Hong hit on the two styles I was thinking of getting into which is Aikido and Tai Chi. I kinda thought these two would be similiar but just wondered exactly how difficult it would be to seperate the techniques, language, etc...Those are the two styles I would caution against doing unless you are well familiar with one of them. Some of the concepts are quite similar on the face of it but quite different further in. If you just take the attitude that I did in my first post above that the body only has so many ways to move I think you'll probably be missing the slightly deeper aspects of one or both of these arts without a foundation in one first.

This is because these two arts take more of a mental/spiritual paradigm shift than most arts. Maybe it's just the way they are usually taught but you can't usually just take a couple of moves form one of those two and apply them in fighting straight away, as you can with many arts.

Practically, if you don't have a base in one, the footwork will confuse you a lot: it's very different.

The techniques and language are not at all difficult to separate. The language is different! And in aiki mostly you'll be taught technique technique technique, and in a (rare) good school some principles too, whereas in tai chi you'll be taught form form form and in (rare) good schools application (technique) and principles too.

[Face2Fist]

Kill all the Japs:mad: ......

Oh, did I just say that? Must be that Chinese growing in me.;)


kill all the e-chuaners!!!!

was i thinking out loud? oops must be the MMAer growning in me!!!

such an idiot, i guess after this comment.. it explains all your other post..lol

[Ray Pina]

First of all, I was just kidding. If you spend a lot of time with Chinese you get the whole thing about the Rape of Nanking and what not. This being a Chinese martial arts board, a Chinese vs Japanese post ... I wrote that in a light hearted way. Forgetting its the internet and people will take it in the most negative way they could.

But it also raises the point: can you learn Isreal's top secret while learning Palestine's top secret? Could be hard to pull off to someone who's worth learning from in the first place.

.........
Face2Face, the thing about E-Chuan is that we welcome you wannabe E-Chuan killers.:)

[Face2Fist]

i was going to continue this argument with you, but that comment made earlier, shows me how ignorant you really are and i rather just not bother with you at all.
i feel sorry for you. honestly i do.



.........
Face2Face, the thing about E-Chuan is that we welcome you wannabe E-Chuan killers.:)


yawn! ok, hong kong fuey i m sure !!

[Ray Pina]

I apoligize for my comment. I certainly don't have any miscontent for the Japanese. I studied Issin-Ryu for many years and respect the discipline they instill into the practice and art. And sushi is good and bukkaki girls are hot and Katanas are great weapons. The Japanese are alright.... especially since their days of trying to conquer Asia are over.

And I like bonzei though they're of Chinese origin.... and I like the Chinese choptstick better too. And I think Northern Chinese girls are prettier but Koreans are the prettiest.

Yup. Glad to get that off my chest.

[Ray Pina]

yawn! ok, hong kong fuey i m sure !!


Well, being completely serious, you're welcome to come try anytime. And if you can't get to NYC let me know, there's a good chance I can come to you.

[Wong Fei Hong]

Ronin aikido and taichi are really deep and multi faced multi level arts, because of this it depends what you learn from each of them , what kind of difficulties you encounter, you might do tai chi which is just relaxation a form, and no fighting , and in the aikido you just do techniques and applications, which is really easy to pick up.
On the other hand you might do fighting in aikido and tai chi and get confused with the footwork as mat said.
Or you might only do applications of techniques in aikido as well as the circular mini dances, and ki excercises , and do the fighting and push hands in tai chi , in which case again one is more hands on than the other and you wont get confused with applying in a sparring.
Having said that youve done kyokushinkai, just learn how to cultivate inner peace and internal strength with aikido and tai chi and forget about sparring, just use kyokushin to kick ass :D After 30 years of tai chi you will find out your tai chi looks like kyokushin did 30 years before just more round and internal.

[Face2Fist]

Well, being completely serious, you're welcome to come try anytime. And if you can't get to NYC let me know, there's a good chance I can come to you.


come on! grow the f up, will you!! sh*t i m tired of hearing you calling people out!! i m going to show you want "e-chuan" can do! yet! you re f'ing punch, sloppy at that. just grow up get a girlfriend or boyfriend whatever youre into and bang them and this will keep you busy and away from challenging people. one of these days you find someone who will set your @ss straight and i hope its sooner than later..

one more thing stop hugging your master's n*ts! youre a grown man but act like a manchild!! are you a retard? or bi polar? answer that!!! now f off

[Chief Fox]

come on! grow the f up, will you!! sh*t i m tired of hearing you calling people out!! i m going to show you want "e-chuan" can do! yet! you re f'ing punch, sloppy at that. just grow up get a girlfriend or boyfriend whatever youre into and bang them and this will keep you busy and away from challenging people. one of these days you find someone who will set your @ss straight and i hope its sooner than later..

one more thing stop hugging your master's n*ts! youre a grown man but act like a manchild!! are you a retard? or bi polar? answer that!!! now f off
Observation: you tell him to grow up and yet your resort to school yard name calling. How mature.

[Mr Punch]

Good post Wong. To summarize, Ronin, try it out and see. If you find you've forgotten how to tie your shoelaces by the end of the first month perhaps it's not for you! :D

Good post Ray, way to go using cultural stereotypes like bukkake girls to explain how you're not a racist. If you say 'Kill all n!ggers' and then say, "Only kidding..." you're still a pr!ck.

[Ronin22]

Having said that youve done kyokushinkai, just learn how to cultivate inner peace and internal strength with aikido and tai chi and forget about sparring, just use kyokushin to kick ass :D After 30 years of tai chi you will find out your tai chi looks like kyokushin did 30 years before just more round and internal.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. I don't do much sparring anymore so I was looking at arts that promote qi development and internal peace/strength. I was also going on the thought of learning a art that could still be practiced when I get older. Bottom line is I just need to try them and see what happens.

Mat- After the first month I hope I can get out of bed let alone tie my shoes!:D


Thanks for the advice guys

[Shaolinlueb]

it all depends on teh practioner. you can yell at the style is better all you want. it all depends on how the person trians.

its like the saying bjj sucks but then you fight a bjj guy and you lose. does it mean bjj is better and superior? no, it just means you dont train as hard to fight as those guys. am i saying the kung fu guy sucks? no he has to trian harder.

[cranebeginner]

Most other martial arts originated in china anyway.... okinawan karate originated from fujian white crane

[lkfmdc]

Perhaps this will start another flame war? Who cares... :D

There are only two kinds of martial arts

good martial arts and bad martial arts

The only real issue is that today, bad martial arts outnumber good martial arts by about 250 to 1....

[Ronin22]

lkfmdc

This is very true and something I'm trying to sort through now. I'm not too impressed with the options here in southern CT and figure I will have to go to NYC to find what i'm looking for. Although, I'm sure there is a lot of bad MA there as well. I'm fine with the Aikido it's trying to sort out all the Tai Chi, qigong, and other CMA teachers in the city.

Peace

[Shaolinlueb]

Perhaps this will start another flame war? Who cares... :D

There are only two kinds of martial arts

good martial arts and bad martial arts

The only real issue is that today, bad martial arts outnumber good martial arts by about 250 to 1....

i think its more then that. maybe about 500 to 1.

[mufty]

To answer the origional question:

I do.

However I have been training in Bujutsu since 1972. And still train and teach Bujutsu.

However in 1995 I decided for my own personal growth to look into the White Crane. I feel that maybe all old Karate ka end up in this place.

Anyway I have found that the Southern Chinese Fujiban baihe is very close to my Okinawan karate, and really like the White crane. The problem with Language is a little difficult, however with a little knowledge of Kanji I am able to work out the connection.

As already stated I also feel that you should only look around when you have actually practiced constantly for many many years in your first school.

:)

Regards