Announcement pt 2

[Three Harmonies]

One Ron Aviles has written to IKF in the Dec 05 issue (page 10) regarding Steve Cottrell Laoshi's "claim" to be a disciple of Lai Laoshi, basically saying he is not.
Dave Cater (the editor) replies:
"Thank you for your letter, but we must disagree with your assertions regarding Steve Cottrell and Master Brendan Lai. I spoke several times with master Lai prior to his death and on each occasion he was clear in his support of Cottrell's lineage. That is good enough for us."

I do believe the younger generation would have one thing to say about this.....

SNAP!! :p :D

Straight from the horses mouth, so to speak of course.

Cheers
Jake :)

[shirkers1]

BOOYAAAA!!!!! BIIIAAATCH!!!

Oh no you didn't,, ugh ungh ... yeah that's right. :eek:


cool jake thanks for that info. :D

I thought the issue was dropped and already answered, but I just wanted a chance to say booyaaa biatch, and do the cabbage patch in my office cube.

[BeiTangLang]

Not everyone has access to the forums where Sifu Cottrell already explained his position in detail.

I read no ill will in the letter, but a statement clarifying his positionon the subject.
No harm, No foul.


Best wishes to all,
~BTL

[Oso]

irrelevent of either sides position, Steve has chosen to deal with it the way he has and we need to respect him for that.

I agree the situation stinks. But I'm not sure that this is doing anything but fanning the flames which won't do Steve any good.

just a thought, guys.

[Three Harmonies]

This forum is getting a bit sensitive for a bunch of kung fu dudes!
No one is fanning ****, I am merely quoting the magazine! No one outside of the individuals *****ing are fanning any flames. I am merely the messenger ;)
If you do not like it, do not read the posts! Just like if you do not like Howard Stern..... CHANGE THE FREAKIN CHANNEL!!!!!

Jake :cool:

[WhiteMonkey]

So what does that mean, I can type up a post that i spoke with....blah...blah...blah, and they stated that....blah...blah....
come on??

You guys are supporting a guy who claims to be something he's not....just like his teacher....figure it out.....hahahahahahah

laughing all the way, you guys belive everything you read???

If you only knew.....now watch BTL close this one!

lets discuss.....

[mantis55]

Since this is my coming out post, I'll make it a good one for you.

I am one of Master Lai's senior students, having studied with him since 1970 as a teenager. I am teaching privately in the Sacramento CA area with a core group of about ten students.

Firstly, I was surprised to see that Cater would post what I thought was a personal message. I'm not suprised that he truncated his reply to exclude a couple of key facts, specifically, the dates of his conversations with Master Lai. Let's call it pre-2000 and post-2000. I will leave it at that.

Cater and I have exchanged a few msgs on our personal emails and have come to an understanding. One of them is the posting of Steve's announcement in the January issue of IKF.

BTW, Steve and I know each other and have met each other at his school in TX in 1997. I can say with a high degree of confidence that his relationship with Master Lai was initially helped along by me since Master Lai asked me to interview him.

I support (as do my classmates) all of his efforts in what he has done to further education and interest in the Northern Praying Mantis lineage.

Someone other than Confucius once said, "a lie told a thousand times soon becomes the truth". My message to Dave Cater was to maintain the course for truth.

Sincerely,
Sifu Ron Aviles

[BeiTangLang]

You guys are supporting a guy who claims to be something he's not....just like his teacher....figure it out.....hahahahahahah

If you only knew.....now watch BTL close this one!

lets discuss.....



Why would I close this if the dicussion is a good level-headed one about mantis??

Who are they supporting who claims to be something he's not....just like his teacher?? This sounds interesting. :D

[Oso]

Jake, c'mon man?!?!

Look, I agree with you 100% and I support Steve 100%.

Inflamatory posts won't get anyone anywhere in this situation.

Steve has his reasons for following the path he is taking on this matter and those of us who support him will better support him solidly and quietly.

[bungbukuen]

I agree with Oso. It is a rather sensitive issue for Sifu Cottrell. He basically got caught with his hand in the cookie jar so to speak. He said he was a disciple and according to his official post is not. The Lai family lineage seems to be handling it quite diplomatically considering the circumstances. Sifu Cottrell is also making the best of a self induced situation.

Personally I did not like it when Sifu Cottrell in his letter explained that his use of “Disciple” was merely an outward expression of appreciation and respect for Master Lai. I thought it was taking the entire mess, turning it around, and somehow shifting focus onto Master Brendon Lai. IMHO that was just skillful writing and think that Sifu Cottrell’s behavior was more motivated by self interest. Why else would someone make claim to be a disciple when they are not. Everyone can make their own judgment call on that.

I am not trying to slander anyone in these matters, but I think that since Sifu Cottrell made such a public statement that it is definitely up for healthy debate. I definitely agree that Sifu Cottrell is a good promoter of Mantis, but I also think he has taken something away from it in these matters. One step forward two steps back seems fitting.

Jake, I mean this in the sincerest way but I think the swearing in your posts takes away from your message, come across as being overly sensitive, and probably does not present your school in the best light.

Just my humble opinion.

[mantid1]

I think the students/disciples of master Lai have been very repectful about this whole situation.

I have not read or heard anything nasty or negative about this form Master Lai's group. In fact they compliment Mr. Cottrell for his hard work in promoting the Mantis styles. They give credit where credit is due. They do not let negative pull them in.

I am not sure about this whole disciple business. if I ever wanted to be one I think I may look up on of master Lai' disciples for a good example of what one is supposed to be. It seems they just want to promote their style and their sifu's teachings quietly and positivly with no need for fame. They dont even want to be named.

They set a good example that we all could follow.

I am sure that if Master Lai could see his students now he would probably be proud of what he has produced. Even the ones who make mistakes from time to time.

[Three Harmonies]

Oso
Again what is everyone getting their panties in a bunch about? I did not write it, I read it in IKF. If you are feeling this is wrong, or "starting" something get upset with Cater.

BBK
Thank you for your concern, but please understand the post said , (female dog expression :rolleyes: ), and for pete sakes (is that better ;) ) that is what they were doing! Sensitive about what? Look at the actual post where I used freakin instead of ****ing! Or do you include that too?

Thanks
Jake :)

[mantis55]

Jake,

You did not just act as the messenger, you added your commentary, which in my opinion, was juvenile.

I'm from the old school and an older generation...you would not pass my character test and certainly not my late sifu's either. Same goes for you, Shirkers.

Sifu Ron Aviles

[Three Harmonies]

Okay again I will bite.......
Ron, how is what I did any different than you? Did you not add your own commentary to the situation, or is this just between you (specifically) and Steve Cottrell?

[Three Harmonies]

As for the "charachter test".......... if this is the way you all behave towards brothers, I would prefer not to be associated with your kind.
Do not presume to think you have any clue of my charachter bro!

Thanks
Jake

[shirkers1]

Jake,

You did not just act as the messenger, you added your commentary, which in my opinion, was juvenile.

I'm from the old school and an older generation...you would not pass my character test and certainly not my late sifu's either. Same goes for you, Shirkers.

Sifu Ron Aviles

Well I'm sorry I tried to make light of a situation that frankly I'm sick of hearing about. Political garbage period.. As for your character test, I didn't know that I needed your personal opinion of me to wake up every day with a smile on my face. ;) For you saying that you failed MY personal character test.. :eek: how do you like that mr older generation TRUE senior student guy? :D I'm sure my comment means little to you.. Just like titles, political garbage, or your views of my personal character mean little to me.... flame on.

Welcome to the boards by the way, and to do it with a blatant personal attack is a good move on your part. :rolleyes: (read my signiture and you'll see that sarcasm was just used)


As for mantis, maybe these other cats were right... Looks like maybe we CAN'T let all of this title, political garbage sit down and let the greater learning good stand up and breathe free. Looks like this whole idea of gathering together for the greater good was just a waste of time and we will just end up bickering over useless stuff like all the other Martial families out there. :mad:

[BeiTangLang]

Well,...so much for keeping this one together & level-headed. Lets stick with mantis issues here & not get into personality squabbles....

Some are more traditional that others and this should be respected just as much as the non-traditionalists. This goes along very well with the subject of terminology & how people takes things. To some, disciple (live-in,...closed door student, long-time student,..etc.) is a very strong term and to others a lesser term to describe someone that teaches or promotes.

Lets keep defamation out of this discussion & we can all get a lot more out of it.

Best Wishes to all,
~BTL

[-N-]

I have not read or heard anything nasty or negative about this form Master Lai's group. In fact they compliment Mr. Cottrell for his hard work in promoting the Mantis styles.That is the way it should be. Let other forums concentrate on trash talk if that is their thing.


Some are more traditional that others and this should be respected just as much as the non-traditionalists. [...] Lets keep defamation out of this discussion & we can all get a lot more out of it.
Thanks for being a chill dude, Bei. I appreciate that.

N.

[Americanmantis]

Discipleship and lineage are irrelevant.

I have heard a lot of great things about Steve's character and skill as a martial artist.

He is the same person regardless of whether or not he is a disciple, or belongs to some lineage.
_____________________________

"American Mantis; I had to do something in my spare time learning the basics."

Dr. George Lisjak

[Young Mantis]

This forum is getting a bit sensitive for a bunch of kung fu dudes!
No one is fanning ****, I am merely quoting the magazine! No one outside of the individuals *****ing are fanning any flames. I am merely the messenger ;)

Again what is everyone getting their panties in a bunch about? I did not write it, I read it in IKF. If you are feeling this is wrong, or "starting" something get upset with Cater.



Three Harmonies,

You say you are not fanning flames and only being a messenger but this topic was over with, Sifu Cottrell stated his position, the thread was closed. Anyone who picked up IKF could have read that article. You chose to re-open this topic on both this forum and the MQ forum. How are you not instigating anything? Cater did not bring it to the forums, you did. You re-opened this closed topic. I wonder what your motivations are for doing so.

There are personal and sensitive issues that are being kept within the Lai Gung Fu family. Not everything needs to be made public and there are details withheld to protect the very person you think you are supporting. Be careful what you wish for.

There are some on these Internet forums that seem to think everything should be shared and made available to the public domain. They honor and praise those that share and belittle and ridicule those that don't. Not everyone qualified to teach wishes to do so. Not everyone who has the information wants to be be known and sought after. Why can't their privacy be respected without making such blanket statements as "those who don't share don't know anything worth sharing anyways"? It is a choice, they simply choose to remain quiet and keep to themselves.

Vance

[Three Harmonies]

I guess it is making matters worse, yet you respond to these posts. I cannot instigate if no one responds. You are right, anyone could have picked up IKF and read the news. I guess I am the a.... big meanie head :p because I posted it on the boards. Sorry for wasting everyones time.
"Not everything needs to be made public......"
Dude...........what can I say about jumping on the hipocrite bus :rolleyes: . I believe how all of this started was the word "disciple" was used in a magazine (that anyone could have picked and read on their own :p ), and certain individuals within the "Lai Family" decided it was in everyones best interest to air their laundry and wave their political flag! You wonder what my motivations are??? Do not sit here and shame me (or anyone else for that manner), when you are going to do the same thing!
If this is a "private family matter" then no one should have ever heard about it on the boards, nor in letters to IKF! If it is indeed being handled privately between all the parties, then why bother responding to my "immature" posts?
So my apologies to all. BTL if you deem it proper, lock her down with your fist of steel ;) . My motivation was solely to make this letter and statement from Dave Cater known to the general populace that may not read IKF. Sorry to Ron and Steve if I escalated anything.
On the flip side of that coin, some of you all need to watch where that finger is pointing before calling me (and others) on certain things! The double standards on this board are getting a bit out of control.

Later, much later,
Jake

[BeiTangLang]

There are personal and sensitive issues that are being kept within the Lai Gung Fu family. Not everything needs to be made public and there are details withheld to protect the very person you think you are supporting. Be careful what you wish for.

I cannot help but agree that family issues are an internal matter. I believe there are details in all families that are withheld to protect many subject matters & this one is no acception.

Be careful for what you wish for are truely words to live by.

I believe this thread is loosing its usefullness as a knowledge bin.
I'm closing it.

White monkey, if you think there is something that still needs to be dicussed, post it on a new thread.

Best wishes to all,
~BTL