ATTN Face2Face: Looking for MMA video

[Ray Pina]

I looked for the technical wave punching video but it's too fast to capture on video and see what's going on, or me or the other guy has our back to the camera at that point. I have video of my master doing it to me but I hesitate to release it.

What I will do is submit this kick defense for you one more time. Now, Ideally I would get uner that kick and wedge it, uprooting the guy. But we both know how rare the ideal is in the chaos of fighting. But, even though I couldn't get under it, I absorbed it, completely took the power off of it WHILE COMING IN.

Now, I remember you saying this is basic in Thai Boxing. That raised my curiosity. We now have over a decade and what I'd imagine to be what, thousands of hours of UFC, Pride, K1 video. Could you please post a video where someone is absorbing a low-mid, to high-low roundhouse kick like this while coming in? I'd love to study it.

Thanks in advance
Ray Pina

[Judge Pen]

Even assuming that you were able to absorb the kick while coming in, how can we tell how much power that kick had on it in the first place? This wasn't a grudge match, but a friendly but intense sparring session. Even in these types of situations I rarely if ever put all I have on a kick or punch. Fault me for being a nice guy. . .

[MasterKiller]

This might work better:

[Judge Pen]

From MK's animation of the photos, it looks like you were able the shed the round-house off of your body with your left-arm (a good defense, imo). It also looks like his kick wasn't what I would refer to as a Muay Thai kick.

[Ray Pina]

Wow, that's too cool Master Killer!

JudgePen... he's not a Thai Fighter. He has 10 years of TKD but pretty serious about it ..... instructor. School in NY. Now he's focusing on grappling. It was a pretty serious kick and friends who've seen the video are like, "Man, he did get ya good with that one."

When I play it back in slow motion, they can see my hand gets to his knee (which carries the weight and momentum of the body) and slows it down. By the time the foot gets to my body it's reduced a lot, just a flappy leg. But the noise on video is pretty loud. A big WHACK, like a multiple black belt (that he is) kicking an air shield.

As for the power and intention, you have to take my word for it (whatever value that has). But know that he knew we were fighting to the end, and the end comes via tap or KO.

Something to think about:

1) My master once witnessed a Japanese karate master who boasted he could break 20 bricks only break 5. But the next day, on cement basketball court he broke all 20..... the first day he tried braking the bricks on a dance floor.

How little does a dance floor absorb? How much power did it remove from the strike?

2) Does this make sense in theory? Can it be tested? For me, yes. I have tested it enough to see the value in training absorption. If I tried a karate-like low block, or a double forearm block, I would have been injured.

3) I should have dopped the elbow in the later frames to chip away at the lower leg or foot. The kick came fast and caught me a bit unaware, that's why I missed the wedge and didn't have the presence to chip away. I was just glad that didn't catch my rib. The guy did succesfully disengage though. I didn't get him until the next pass, when he opened with a straight, cross combo.

[Mortal1]

It always bothers me when I see someone kick with the heel of the supporting foot up in the air. In my opinion those type of kicks have a lot less power. It also is a lack of flexabilty. I always keep my supporting foot flat to be stable and generate power from the ground.

[Ray Pina]

From MK's animation of the photos, it looks like you were able the shed the round-house off of your body with your left-arm (a good defense, imo). It also looks like his kick wasn't what I would refer to as a Muay Thai kick.

Looking at it the way MK has it, kind of reminds me of Hsing-I wood element but it's not.

I also think my hand drops a little too low afterwards. But the key is forming a solid structure in the arm, keeping the elbow between me and the other guy (huge principle of my master's) and absorbing with the shoulder.

The hand is fast, can get to the knee. Then just apply the airbreak to reduce the power.

The training is not in getting the hand there. That's easy. It's in obsorbing and keeping the structure. If you panic and get stiff you get moved like a strong statue. It's training certain parts to be strong while other parts absorb or accept.

[Ray Pina]

It always bothers me when I see someone kick with the heel of the supporting foot up in the air. In my opinion those type of kicks have a lot less power. It also is a lack of flexabilty. I always keep my supporting foot flat to be stable and generate power from the ground.


I agree with you. In training, the heel should never come up. In fighting ... that's another story sometimes. I see pros do full spins on the balls of their feet after missing.

[Mortal1]

"I see pros do full spins on the balls of their feet after missing."

I know what you mean. I watch all the ultimate fighting I could get my hands on. That is another one of my big pet peeves. Can't you kick and snap it back? People practice on kicking fast but not pulling it back as fast. That way you don't sacrifice structure. I am also not a fan of the spinning back fist for the same reasons.

[Golden Tiger]

I might not be seeing it right but it appears to me that you slapped the knee to stop the kick. That might have thrown him off a bit but as far as absorbing the kick, I am not seeing that at all.

What is looks like happened is that the guy was going hi with the kick (TKD training right? plus the fact that he raised up on the ball of the foot, natural impulse for kicking high) and you sort of jammed the knee before it gained momentum. If he had been going to the tummy or lower, the knee was already to the stopping point. All he had to do was extend from there. But hitting half way up the leg (the knee), its not going to have that much speed or power to absorb in the first place. Like hitting a baseball half way down the bat.

It was a good block though, I'll give you that. Blocked, advanced and attacked. Spot on!

[Ray Pina]

"I see pros do full spins on the balls of their feet after missing."

I know what you mean. I watch all the ultimate fighting I could get my hands on. That is another one of my big pet peeves. Can't you kick and snap it back? People practice on kicking fast but not pulling it back as fast. That way you don't sacrifice structure. I am also not a fan of the spinning back fist for the same reasons.

I think it's a matter of cost/benefit. They put so much into the kick looking for a big pay off they're willing to sacrifice structure.

I guy I fought this Sun. did the same thing about 3 times and I didn't jump on it because I feared running into a donkey kick.

Interestingly enough, I saw a beatiful spinning back kick take some duded rib out in the UFC just this week. The guy was a TKD guy. Or TKD background. I don't like spinning kicks but it was beautiful.

[Ray Pina]

But hitting half way up the leg (the knee), its not going to have that much speed or power to absorb in the first place. Like hitting a baseball half way down the bat.

The big power of a kick is contained from the hip to the knee but it is slow .... this is the ideal place for my fast hand to get too. Best would have been for my hand to slide inside so I could wedge it out, but it landed right on. If I knew this was coming, I could have striked just above the knee. My master does that to me but I'm not that good. So having contact with the powerful part I can slow it down, reduce the power. That's all I need to do. Not get injured from his kick and capitalize on the fact he's on one leg.


The fast part of the kick is below the knee .... but its fast and very flexible so chasing it with my hand is foolish. Now, ideally, I would touch the powerful part (the knee) with my fast part (the hand) and then deal with his fast but weak part (foot) with my slow but strong part (elbow).

That would be ideal. Unfortunately the other guy wanted to hit me too so I was able to negate the kick but he got away. I didn't land that strike.

[lkfmdc]

Give me a day or two to post some live action Muay Thai shots that are almost exactly your pics....

That being said, it's a crappy kick, and don't feed me the "it's a TKD kick" because I have a Kukiwon 2nd Dan from the 80's, back before TKD became a complete joke

First of all, the kick is thrown at the wrong angle, which is precisely why you are able to "wedge" it as you say, MT guys call is a spike FYI

He's using his knee, to "flick" it, killing all the power

HIs shoulder is not in harmony with his hips and knees

As for the pivoting comments, I guess I'm no longer shocked at the level of ignoarance demonstrated here, but for those who made the comment, swing a baseball bat or chop down a tree for me without turing your hips and shoulders, then we can talk

Or, come on down to the gym and absorb some of our round kicks...

you're choice! ;)

[lkfmdc]

A quick google search and I didn't find the exact picture I was looking for but found plenty of variations on a theme

http://www.bangkok-hotel-resort.com/images/thai_boxing.jpg

http://www.phuket.com/images/thaiboxing.jpg

http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand-travel-guide/images/thai_boxing1.jpg

http://www.cti.hull.ac.uk/~lcm0sjc/Thai2.jpg

http://misheli.image.pbase.com/u40/dougj/upload/26137413.IMG_5264CS.jpg

This, by the way, is a failed attempt to do the same thing
http://sandaclub.net/images/kickboxing-Kung-fu-wushu-sanda-sanda-vs-muay-thai-antico-00.jpg

[Mortal1]

I actually love the spinning back kick in all my ingorance. :p

[Lama Pai Sifu]

lkfmdc
A quick google search and I didn't find the exact picture I was looking for but found plenty of variations on a theme

http://www.bangkok-hotel-resort.com/...hai_boxing.jpg

http://www.phuket.com/images/thaiboxing.jpg

http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand-tr...ai_boxing1.jpg

http://www.cti.hull.ac.uk/~lcm0sjc/Thai2.jpg

http://misheli.image.pbase.com/u40/d...IMG_5264CS.jpg

This, by the way, is a failed attempt to do the same thing
http://sandaclub.net/images/kickboxi...-antico-00.jpg

I like the one where they are at the beach together. They look very happy together and are obviously having lot's of beach fun! Makes me want to go to the beach and take pictures of myself in the water with boxing gloves and shorts on....