Hard Gainer: Gaining muscle mass while remaining athletic

[Ford Prefect]

So I realized I was going to have some free time to play this winter. On the way are two 8-week old short haired puppies that will be here by the New Year, so I don't see myself being able to do much winter moutaineering and snow shoeing. Because of this, I decided to do another fun experiement with my body to see what it is capable of. I had given up all supplements this summer which caused me to shed a little weight. I dropped from 175-180 to 170-175 lbs. This must also be partly do to the fact that I had been hiking like a madman... In the past 6 weeks, I decided to start eating like a normal person with 3 meals/day and snacks in between, and sure enough I'm now down to 157-159 lbs. I shed the last 15 lbs in order to continue with my experiment.

I want to see how much weight I can gain while taking no supplements at all and maintaining a healthy cardio-vascular system. I've "bulked" on 3 seperate occasions before reaching between 185-200 lbs respectively. On my frame, 200 lbs looked huge. During those bulking phases, I always did very little if any cardio and supplemented my diet with meal shakes, protein powders, and creatine. This time out I plan to change that.

My diet will consist solely of vegetables, fruit, nuts, cheeses, oats, and meats. While I'm not going to punish myself and abstain from foods like breads, pastas, and some occasional junk here and there, I'm not going to eat them with any regularity. I'm not even going to religiously count calories. I'll try to "eat big" and go by feel how much I should be eating. Besides heavy weight lifting sessions, I will still be performing bodyweight circuits, gymnastic exercises, and jogging/climbing multiple times/week to keep in shape for the spring climbing season. While the training won't be as intense as that which I have been doing for a while, it will still allow me to jump right back into the swing of things come spring. My recreational exercise during the winter will be just snowboarding, and I'll be giving myself the entire winter until mid-April/May to perform this experiment.

My weight lifting will start with an olympic weight lifting focus until the New Year and then shift to bodybuilding for 3 months. The bodybuilding will consist of Ian Kings 12-week legs plan and chest/back plan. I figure I could gain 5 lbs of lean mass per month which would mean that I'll be carrying at least an extra 25 lbs of lean mass when all is said and done. As an example of my diet, this is what I'm going to eat (have eaten) today.

5:30am: Glass OJ
Workout
7:00am: Glass of Milk
8:30am: 1/2 cup rolled oats w/cinamon and a diced apple; 3 hard boiled eggs (no yolks); 2 cups of milk
Snacking: Almonds
12:00: Salad consisting of Spinach, Red Leaf lettuce, 2 hard boilded egg whites, 8 oz of diced chicken, broccoli, snap peas, carrots, grape tomatos, cucumber
Snacking: Almonds and diced pineapple
3:00pm: Salad consisting of Spinach, Red Leaf lettuce, 3 hard boilded egg whites, broccoli, snap peas, carrots, grape tomatos, cucumber; 2 meat balls
Snacking: Cheese and crackers
6:30pm: Dinner: Chicken or Beef dish with vegetables and milk to drink
Snacking: Cheese, nuts, and fruit

I realize I still need to plain old sugar surges, so I'm doing this with fresh squeezed fruit juice. I have a juicer and have made a whole load of pineapple/apple/kiwi juice. I'll drink it maybe 2x/day as I think I need it in order to add calories. I think it will be interesting to see if I can add weight with limitted fat since my other bulking phases have seen me as high as 9.5% body fat. I'll be taking skin fold measurements to determine my body fat percentage tonight (I'd guess around 7%), and I'll be taking measurements and pictures to track progress.

I'll post updates every 2 weeks as much for my own motivational benefit as for the sharing of knowledge. This should be fun. Without exception, at the end of all the bulking phases I'd felt bloated from all the shakes, tired of eating from the diets, and extremely unathletic and out of shape (despite looking good with low bf%) due to the lack of cardio. I'll find it interesting to see if I can add weight while eating good foods and remaining healthy.

[bodhitree]

Keep us posted man! Sounds interesting. I've been doing supplements, Lifting, and also some cardio, and i've managed to get to the heaviest i've ever been. I'm sure minus the cardio though, i would get huge.

[Akronviper]

The Ian King programs are great, both worked great for me. It will be interesting to see your results. Just by glancing it seems with the lower amounts of protein and the more cardio, it just seems like you will gain slower than you previously had. Good luck it will be fun to watch your progress.

[abobo]

Yay hardgainers. I'm the leanest I've been in a couple of years. First I lost a lot of weight due to atrophy while being injured. While I've been recovering I've decided to compete in track and all of the sprinting has kept me even leaner than usual. I'm interested in your experiment because once the season is over I will probably want my 20 lbs back.

By the way, have you learned any new gymnastic skills?

[IronFist]

Holy s.hit it's Ford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, you know I am very interested in your results.

[Ford Prefect]

Haha! I'll definately keep this updated. I think getting the calories is the hardest part.

Abodo,

I got a set of stil rings that are hanging from my garage ceiling, so I've been messing around on those some. Muscle-ups are so much easier on rings. I've been doing a lot more handstand stuff on the paralellettes. I still haven't gotten the straddle planche yet though. I can hold an advanced tuck planche for a decent amount of time but once I start extending my legs, I collapse. It's easy to see why most gymnasts are not 6' tall guys with long arms. I almost have a full front lever. I have the straddle down and I can bring my feet together, but still not well enough to pass as one, IMO.

One interesting thing is despite all the gymnast work I've been doing, my max amount up pull-ups have suffered and my bench plumetted. It lends to my theory that the people who do well in these strength events and seem to have a lot of carry over are people who are naturally predisposed to maximal strength events. We've all heard stories of the gymnast who tries benching and puts up 300 lbs the first time and what-not, but what lots of people fail to realize is that the gymnast is probably short and stocky, which is good for benching too. Also if they are a good gymnast then chances are he is genetically inclined to lift heavy things (ie create large amounts of tension in his muscles). In all likelyhood, he could roll off the couch after not doing a single thing for a year and still out bench most people.

This is kind of along the same line as talking about sprinting for fat loss and saying "look at olympic spirnters". True sprinting uses energy pathways best suited for fat burning, but olympic sprinters are olympic sprinters because of their innate abilities and natural body types. This seems like common sense, but many times I see the rationale for training one way or another is "look at (x athlete). They train this way, and they perform well and look well, so you can too!" Even some of it makes sense from a logical POV, so I like to mess around with this stuff and see what actually works for the average guy. I'm a little interested to see how fast it takes me to recover my previous strength levels.

[Ford Prefect]

Odd... Well, my scale says that I've gained 4 lbs, but it certainly seems like I've lost a little fat. I was wondering if maybe I was seeing things, but unprompted my wife said "your 6-pack is really popping out now" last night. I expected to gain weight, but I also expected some fat to be gained along with it. It will be interesting to see what the calipers say on Sunday.

[Mutant]

Interesting diet and training plan, Ford.
Sounds like possibly a good livable long-term diet if it works out.

Hey, did you ever do that Denali trip? If so, how'd it go? Summit?

[Ford Prefect]

Denali is a long ways away if ever. Rainier is next year though. I trained on other high peaks this year. Kilimanjaro (and African Safari) is the year after. The Greek Islands are mixed in somewhere in between too. :)

[Ford Prefect]

WOW!!!

Turns out I gained 6+ lbs of muscle and lost 1+ lbs of fat in the past two weeks. I think it can mostly be attributed to starting squatting again. My thigh diamater went up over an inch during this time while the rest of my body stayed relatively the same. That of course is a little alarming, but 2 weeks time and only 6 lbs spread throughout my body, I guess I wouldn't expect much to change past fractions of an inch.

[Serpent]

Very interesting stuff, Ford - keep posting the results. Also, did you ever get that book out that you were talking about?

Edit - Could you also point me to a link for the Ian King programs you're talking about? I'd like to see the workouts you'll be using.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

nice to see ya around serp.

my old lady complains i cant do the things you do the way you do them, and my mom wants her butt plug back.

[Serpent]

Hey, it's nice to be around. But I'm only here because I'm stalking Ford.

Come over some time and we'll go over those techniques again. Bring your old lady. And you can pick up your mom's butt plug while you're here. But I should warn you - it's a little worse for wear now.

[Ford Prefect]

Aw. So you're the guy who I almost shot for peaking in my windows the other night? ;)

The Ian King program is actually split up into 12 seperate articles. 8 for the 12-week legs and 4 for the 12-week chest-back. On the last article in each series, it has links to the all the previous ones, so I'll just post that one...



12 week legs last article (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=9F3F393257FD884F85265F6E8B 86F2C3.hydra?id=460295)">

12-week Chest-Back last article (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=9F3F393257FD884F85265F6E8B 86F2C3.hydra?id=459386)

Also, while it's nice to dream, I see these first 2-weeks results of mine as the exception rather than the rule. I'm just getting back into heavy lifting, so it wouldn't be unheard for gains like that. I expect the next weeks to be full of gaining a little less muscle and gaining a little fat as well. I guess I'll find out...

[Serpent]

Thanks for the links - I'll check those out. Keep us informed of how you go. I would anticipate a fairly quick plateau on the gains you've made so far, but how long that plateau lasts interests me. And how about that book?

Oh yeah, and learn to shoot straight. There are some crazies out here.... er, there.

[Ford Prefect]

Sorry. I thought I had answered that in my previous. The book is a no-go. It feel through. Such is life.

I wouldn't expect myself to plateau really. Gains will slow for sure, and it is doubtful I'll continue to pack on as much muscle while losing fat, but I'll likely have gains throughout the life of the program. I'm not starting King's programs for another few weeks. I'm getting myself back into shape by doing some pyramids with compound lifts, and then doing things like skull crushers, curls, glute-ham raises, etc to get ready for the isolation stuff.

[rubthebuddha]

sometimes it hurts to hear ford say the word "isolation," but i guess even the brightest bulbs sometimes go dim. :D

ford -- how's progress on getting the lifts back to something you're not ashamed of?*








* note -- my squat has always shamed me, so i'm not being a complete asshat here. ;)

[Ford Prefect]

It's coming along. Slowly but surely. I add 10-20 lbs to my squat each session during my 2 sessions/week. Bench is coming along as well. I saw some real progress with my lower body today, so I'm happy.


The isolation is actually kind of fun after going so long without doing any. I expect to stimulate some good arm and calf gains because of it. Then I can prance around in nancy boy underwear and get a full body wax. :)

[rubthebuddha]

(ford's street cred)² < sevenstar's street cred

[IronFist]

(ford's street cred)² < sevenstar's street cred

Oh snap. :eek:

[Ford Prefect]

Anyway b1tches. I'm heading out for a 4 day snowboard vacation in the middle of the week, so I'll be happy if I have 3-4 lbs of total gains over this current 2-week period. It'll be hard to have the diet in order when I'm away and this place probably doesn't have good exercise equipment.

I lifted weights at a commericial gym for the first time in a couple years though. Motivation is definately a lot higher there, so I had very decent showing on all my lifts compared to what I had been putting up. More people there than I imagined at 5:30am.

[Ford Prefect]

Doh! I've only gained 2 lbs thus far. This is right on target as I was hoping to only gain 2-3 week for 20 weeks making 40-60 lbs total before cutting. However with Turkey day approaching and me being unable to access my normal food, I see myself have a net gain of zero for this period.

On a positive note, the ski resort I'm headed to is getting 5-9" tonight followed by snow tomorrow, thursday, friday, and saturday. I'm going to tear it up. Let's hope I don't kill myself.

[rubthebuddha]

ford -- where you going this time? and how was rainier -- i don't remember hearing the verdict on that climb.

[SevenStar]

(ford's street cred)² < sevenstar's street cred


dayum... I dunno whether to be insulted because I have such low cred or happy cuz someone has less than me...

[Ford Prefect]

That's just wrong. I'll remember this! ;)


Rub, No Rainier for me as of yet. I trained a lot on other high, but albiet non-glaciated peaks this year. I should be heading there next summer. The snowboarding trip is to Stowe, VT. I'm leaving work in all of 10 minutes, then I'm heading up north.

Happy Thanksgiving, fellas.

[IronFist]

dayum... I dunno whether to be insulted because I have such low cred or happy cuz someone has less than me...

Well, according to that formula, your Street Cred is at least a positive number. Since yours is higher than Ford's squared, and any number squared is positive*, yours is at least greater than zero :D





* except for zero, but no one should be squaring 0 anyway.

[Serpent]

Well, according to that formula, your Street Cred is at least a positive number. Since yours is higher than Ford's squared, and any number squared is positive*, yours is at least greater than zero :D





* except for zero, but no one should be squaring 0 anyway.
Nerd.

(10 characters)

[Ford Prefect]

All math aside...

I was foiled by the holiday as expected. I gained all of 1 lbs and according to the calipers it was fat. I expect to have better results in this next 2 week block though. I started King's routine, and I was once again reminded why I left commericial gyms. It basically pre-fatigues all assisting muscle groups and has you bench last. As well as being an ego killer because handling 135 lbs for 8 reps at a 613 tempo is hard at that point, but it is also around 6:40am by the time I get to that point... Despite having 8 bench stations, they were ALL taken. At least most were benching. There was one guy who has doing dumbell flyes there even though there were plenty of flat benches available in the dumbbell area. I decided to cut my losses and just to db bench press.

Snowboarding was great though. There were snow storms every day, and the mountain was empty on saturday. I had some words with a skier who decided to be a *****, but other than that everything was great. No injuries.

[IronFist]

I started King's routine, and I was once again reminded why I left commericial gyms.... handling 135 lbs for 8 reps... is hard at that point

I'm sure that's the reason you left commercial gyms. I'm sure it has nothing to do with this:


...but it is also around 6:40am... Despite having 8 bench stations, they were ALL taken.

You could have just gone and done curls in the squat rack.

[Serpent]

You could have just gone and done curls in the squat rack.
Or squats on the preacher seat. You know, just for sh!ts and giggles.

[Ford Prefect]

haha! Iron, that's what I was talking about. This place doesn't even have a single power rack. Luckily they have 3 squat stands at least. Not a single power rack though. It's huge too.

Anyway, I did the first King leg workout. Pretty brutal. I'm almost ralfed.

[Ford Prefect]

Just wanted to conclude this thread.

The final results were actually not bad at all. I didn't finish the full 12 week plans of King's, but I ended up gaining 23 lbs. The ratio of muscle to fat was good as well with 20:3. The reason why I fell short of finishing King's 12-week plans was because of a new puppy I got. I actually got 2 in the last couple months, but the one I got in January has had some health problems which led to major housebreaking issues and the need for constant supervision. I had to take a 3 week break from a regular workout schedule, which was not fun.

The weight gain slowed greatly at around week 7 because the meals just became too much along with the prep time. Prep was cutting an hour off every one of my nights, and the meal schedule was tough to manage with the new dogs and having to come home during lunch to feed and water them. Since leaving the diet, I have shed nearly 12 lbs although it would appear some fat has left with that. I haven't taken caliper measurements recently, but I believe this is an accurate assessment.

All in all, I was happy with the results and the bodybuilding work was a fun break from my normal balls-to-the-wall workouts. The isolation work even helped my pull-up, bench, and squat numbers too. I'm sure that half has to do with addressing a weak link and half with just a volume layoff on those primary lifts. I now feel rather confident that a hard gainer like myself can gain good amounts of quality mass with no supplements and while remaining cardio-vascularly fit. It just takes some dedication to food preperation.

Now it's back to mountaineering prep for the spring - fall.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

weird question ... why no egg yolks.

[Ford Prefect]

Chaulk full of cholosterol.