Wing Choon

[Phil Redmond]

I've been asked a few times why there are so many spellings for Wing Chun. Many of you here know already so this is old news.
Hong Kong was a British colony for years. The Brits used the term "water closet" (WC) for toilet. Wing Chun people didn't want to associate the initials WC for their beloved system so they changed the Romanization to 'VT'. Leung Ting designated his branch with the initials, WT.
When a native Cantonese reader sees the Chinese characters for Wing Chun they will pronounce it "Wing Choon" regardless of what Romanization we Westerners use. Some people use Bil Jee. It should really be "Biu" like chew. Also there are no "R" sounds in Cantonese so larp (lop), garn (gan), gerk (geuk), are not correct. OK, rant over.
Phil

[reneritchie]

There are also dialect differences, and regional differences.

E.g, someone in Guangzhou and many in HK will pronounce the first set like Siu Nim Tao. Cetain areas in HK, however, will pronounce it closer to Siu Lim Tao (they replace initial 'N' sounds with initial 'L' sounds). This is like how some English speakers say 'sofer' instead of 'sofa'.

That same group in HK will also drop initial 'Ng', so Ngoi (as pronounced in Guangzhou and HK) will sound closer to Oy.

And don't even get Phil started on the difference in Toishan pronounciations... :)

[Stevo]

...Also there are no "R" sounds in Cantonese so larp (lop), garn (gan), gerk (geuk), are not correct. OK, rant over.
Phil

Don't forget that "R" in those cases is not pronounced in non-American/Canadian English. So we can spell it "garn" and pronounce it "gahn".

[Matrix]

Don't forget that "R" in those cases is not pronounced in non-American/Canadian English. So we can spell it "garn" and pronounce it "gahn".Since we are romanizing here, it hardly makes sense to me to insert silent characters. At least that's how I see it.........

[reneritchie]

I think that was an attempt to get English speakers to, for example, pronounce 'Gan' less like the 'a' in 'man' and more like the 'a' in 'father'.

Some dialects, like Mandarin, use tonal accents as well, but they have 4 tones where Cantonese has roughly double that (which is why other use the accentls plus insertion of silent 'h' to indicate low tones).

[El Tejon]

Thank you for the language lesson, Sifu Redmon.:)

No sich tang yeti Gwandungwah-- but it needs a lot of help!:D

I am told I have a Vietnamese accent by my mantis brothers, which is really strange considering I am a tall, lanky WASP.:D

[Phil Redmond]

Since we are romanizing here, it hardly makes sense to me to insert silent characters. At least that's how I see it.........
Think of music with it's Treble and Bass cleffs. There are some differences of opinions but generally Cantonese has 7 tones. Four tones are upper level (trebel cleff). Three tones are lower level (bass cleff). In order to distinguish between upper and lower level the letter 'h' is added to the word.
Phil

[Phil Redmond]

There are also dialect differences, and regional differences.

E.g, someone in Guangzhou and many in HK will pronounce the first set like Siu Nim Tao. Cetain areas in HK, however, will pronounce it closer to Siu Lim Tao (they replace initial 'N' sounds with initial 'L' sounds). This is like how some English speakers say 'sofer' instead of 'sofa'.

That same group in HK will also drop initial 'Ng', so Ngoi (as pronounced in Guangzhou and HK) will sound closer to Oy.

And don't even get Phil started on the difference in Toishan pronounciations... :)
I remember hearing Moy Yat speaking Toishan when we'd go out to dinner. I was just learning Cantonese then and could catch very little. Now I'm trying to talk to people how speak Haak Ga. Rene, that's a diffult dialect. For those of you on T.O. there's a REALLY good Haak Ga restaurant near the bus station called Indochine.
Phil

[Phil Redmond]

Thank you for the language lesson, Sifu Redmon.:)

No sich tang yeti Gwandungwah-- but it needs a lot of help!:D

I am told I have a Vietnamese accent by my mantis brothers, which is really strange considering I am a tall, lanky WASP.:D
M'goi sai. M'gan yiu ah. Ngo haih haak yahn dahnhaai Ngo sihk gong Gwondung Wah. Neih hou chungming yahn ah.
Fei Lihk (Phillip)

[kj]

Don't forget that "R" in those cases is not pronounced in non-American/Canadian English. So we can spell it "garn" and pronounce it "gahn".

That's how some of my Bahstonian friends pronounce it too.

Regards,
- kj

[Matrix]

In order to distinguish between upper and lower level the letter 'h' is added to the word.Phil,
I'm not musical at all. However, my point was more with respect to Steveo's use of "r" as in garn, as opposed to gan or gahn. I don't how an "r" would help. IOW, I was agreeing with your comment. But then again, I speak Canadian, eh. ;)

[Phil Redmond]

Phil,
I'm not musical at all. However, my point was more with respect to Steveo's use of "r" as in garn, as opposed to gan or gahn. I don't how an "r" would help. IOW, I was agreeing with your comment. But then again, I speak Canadian, eh. ;) Man, I always keep a couple of Toonies in my pocket. ;)
Phil

[ntc]

M'goi sai. M'gan yiu ah. Ngo haih haak yahn dahnhaai Ngo sihk gong Gwondung Wah. Neih hou chungming yahn ah.
Fei Lihk (Phillip)

Phil:

Gong dut m chor... hou !!!

By the way, I think the translation of your name fits better with Fei Leep (instead of Fei Lihk).... the "lip" in Philip sounds better and more pronounced this way. Just a thought..... ;-)

[Stevo]

That's how some of my Bahstonian friends pronounce it too.

Regards,
- kj

OK, I know I speak funny, but there's no need for insults, kj! :)

[kj]

OK, I know I speak funny, but there's no need for insults, kj! :)

Not at all - I find it rather endearing. You should hear our unusual Rehchester accents. :D

Regards,
- kj

[Stevo]

Not at all - I find it rather endearing. You should hear our unusual Rehchester accents. :D

Regards,
- kj

Euh mah Gehd!:D

[JPinAZ]

There are also dialect differences, and regional differences.

E.g, someone in Guangzhou and many in HK will pronounce the first set like Siu Nim Tao. Cetain areas in HK, however, will pronounce it closer to Siu Lim Tao (they replace initial 'N' sounds with initial 'L' sounds). This is like how some English speakers say 'sofer' instead of 'sofa'.


Cool thread.
Phil posted this thread on another thread recently and I was reading through and have a question. Isn't Siu Lin Tao and Siu Nim Tao 2 distinctly different things (Big vs Little Idea) and not just a pronounciation thing?

JP

[stonecrusher69]

Cool thread.
Phil posted this thread on another thread recently and I was reading through and have a question. Isn't Siu Lin Tao and Siu Nim Tao 2 distinctly different things (Big vs Little Idea) and not just a pronounciation thing?

JP

I thought the difference was nim ment to think or continplate where as lin meant to practice .

[Mr Punch]

That's how some of my Bahstonian friends pronounce it too.

Regards,
- kjFor stats fans, most linguists will tell you that in fact rhotic accents (who pronounce the mid-/post-vowel 'r') are actually in the minority in the English-speaking world. General American English (GAm - a merger of Western American English, Central American and what is sometimes known as Standard Midwestern despite being slightly East of the centre - Michigan etc - it's an geographical distinction, technically not an isoglossic one) is rhotic, but most NE American accents and Southern dialects are not. Approximately 2/3 of the States is rhotic, a minority in Canada (mostly limited to predominantly Irish/Scottish immigrant origin areas) and 1/3 in the UK. Australia, Africa and NZ don't have any rhoticism at all.


Since we are romanizing here, it hardly makes sense to me to insert silent characters. At least that's how I see it.........


I think that was an attempt to get English speakers to, for example, pronounce 'Gan' less like the 'a' in 'man' and more like the 'a' in 'father'.Of course, gahn is a perfectly reasonable way of transliterating, to avoid the nasal 'ae' of GAm 'cat', 'man' etc. 'Garn' also makes sense in non-rhotic accents.

Linguistics lecture over!

[Phil Redmond]

I thought the difference was nim ment to think or continplate where as lin meant to practice .
You are right. Lihn is pratice and Nihm is thought/concept/idea. In Spanish "b" and "v" are interchangeble. It's that way in HK Cantonese according to some.
When I was in college my Cantonese professor who was from Canton, was adamant about the proper pronounciations of "l" and "n". She always said that the HK Cantonese speakers didn't distinguish between the two.
For instance Neui (girl), would be Leui in HK. So I can see the where there can be confusion between SLT, and SNT
Some WC lineages do use practice (lihn) instead of concept (nihm) though. Languages evolve and now I've even heard people from Canton saying leui for girl.
I remember learning the word Siuje which meant Miss. A Chinese friend of mine was in China and called a waitress Siuje and was told by his friends that Siuje
meant hooker in some places. I remember when a Hoe was a garden tool....lol

[Vajramusti]

For stats fans, most linguists will tell you that in fact rhotic accents (who pronounce the mid-/post-vowel 'r') are actually in the minority in the English-speaking world. General American English (GAm - a merger of Western American English, Central American and what is sometimes known as Standard Midwestern despite being slightly East of the centre - Michigan etc - it's an geographical distinction, technically not an isoglossic one) is rhotic, but most NE American accents and Southern dialects are not. Approximately 2/3 of the States is rhotic, a minority in Canada (mostly limited to predominantly Irish/Scottish immigrant origin areas) and 1/3 in the UK. Australia, Africa and NZ don't have any rhoticism at all.)Mr. Punch)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For me the r in "court" is fairly silent...same for my number 2 son-same for my late father.

3 generations pronounced "court" witha relatively silent r- to convince an elementary school teacher in New mexico some years ago that none of us needed speech therapy.<g>

joy chaudhuri



----

[LoneTiger108]

What a thread! Superb subject matter, and excellent posts! I just hope I can join in without being throttled by one of my Bruvs lol!

First off 'Wing Choon'. As far as my study goes, 'Choon' is not really a good example coz if you say that like 'tune' the character will not be the springtime as we know it but 'song' or 'verse'. Chun I've always related to the english 'run', but thats just my head trying to make sense of sounds.

I agree that there are varied dialects, but its interesting to see an 'English' thread trying to explain Chinese characters. When we noted our lectures, we were asked to make it understandable to ourselves and tried not to get riddled with confusion by following a 'state' example which was still changing. This meant that we all had our own interpretation and ways to spell characters in English which you could say totally individualized what we each took into the mind(?)

I can say this though, I spell Siu Lim Tao like this as 'Lim' refers to 'recite/revise' whereas I have also seen Siu Lien Tao where the 'lien' is 'to practise'. Many ways, infiniate conclustions but only one character in the end which depends on your 'intentions'.

I've never claimed to be the best Cantonese speaker, as my conversational is total garbage! But my 'tones' and understanding of what I learnt is, IMO, the best I could have done at the time and I'm still studying...

[UKBBC]

I feel most offended when I hear people refer to a punch as a 'chewy' just because they have seen it spelt 'chui'. :mad:

[CFT]

I can say this though, I spell Siu Lim Tao like this as 'Lim' refers to 'recite/revise' whereas I have also seen Siu Lien Tao where the 'lien' is 'to practise'. Many ways, infiniate conclustions but only one character in the end which depends on your 'intentions'.Your 'lim' is what is known as lazy tones (laan yum). Classically it is 'nim', but the HK Chinese started drifting into using initial l-sounds instead of n-sounds for quite a while now as far as I know.

Nim tau = idea
Nim shu = reciting literature

Same 'nim' character

[Phil Redmond]

What a thread! Superb subject matter, and excellent posts! I just hope I can join in without being throttled by one of my Bruvs lol!

First off 'Wing Choon'. As far as my study goes, 'Choon' is not really a good example coz if you say that like 'tune' the character will not be the springtime as we know it but 'song' or 'verse'. Chun I've always related to the english 'run', but thats just my head trying to make sense of sounds.

I agree that there are varied dialects, but its interesting to see an 'English' thread trying to explain Chinese characters. When we noted our lectures, we were asked to make it understandable to ourselves and tried not to get riddled with confusion by following a 'state' example which was still changing. This meant that we all had our own interpretation and ways to spell characters in English which you could say totally individualized what we each took into the mind(?)

I can say this though, I spell Siu Lim Tao like this as 'Lim' refers to 'recite/revise' whereas I have also seen Siu Lien Tao where the 'lien' is 'to practise'. Many ways, infiniate conclustions but only one character in the end which depends on your 'intentions'.

I've never claimed to be the best Cantonese speaker, as my conversational is total garbage! But my 'tones' and understanding of what I learnt is, IMO, the best I could have done at the time and I'm still studying...
Ok, I speak Cantonese and it is pronounced CHOON, not CHUN as in gun. Ask any Cantonese speaker. I think you might be speaking about the radical that it used with the "Wing" character in most WC. Btu is not used is Chi Sim Wing Chun. That radical to the left of the character "wing" means to recite/speak/praise. There has to be Chinese people where you are so that you can check out what I say. You're waaaaaaay off base.

[Phil Redmond]

. . . . I can say this though, I spell Siu Lim Tao like this as 'Lim' refers to 'recite/revise' whereas I have also seen Siu Lien Tao where the 'lien' is 'to practise'. Many ways, infiniate conclustions but only one character in the end which depends on your 'intentions'....
Lim meaning recite? You'd better look that one up again man.


. . . .I've never claimed to be the best Cantonese speaker, as my conversational is total garbage! . . .
No offense but that's obvious. :rolleyes:

[Phil Redmond]

Your 'lim' is what is known as lazy tones (laan yum). Classically it is 'nim', but the HK Chinese started drifting into using initial l-sounds instead of n-sounds for quite a while now as far as I know.

Nim tau = idea
Nim shu = reciting literature

Same 'nim' character
I hear you. I told a friend from HK once that girl is neui not leui. He replied, "I'm Chinese. I know Chinese" I cracked up. I also told him that five was Ng and not Um.
I guess a black guy correcting a native speaker didn't sit well with him . . .lol
We still laugh about it.

[CFT]

Ok, I speak Cantonese and it is pronounced CHOON, not CHUN as in gun. Correct, not CHUN as in gun, but then also not CHOON as in cartoon! ;)

You could say: choen/tsoen but it *is* difficult to present as text. Anyway, I'm sure Phil knows what he is talking about.

Gotcha on the 'ng' and 'um'.

How about 'gwok' (country) pronounced as 'gok' (corner/angle)?
It is so easy to be 'lazy' though, especially if you speak fast and slur a bit. I have to watch myself a bit with my son in case I'm teaching him incorrect pronunciation and tones.

[Phil Redmond]

Correct, not CHUN as in gun, but then also not CHOON as in cartoon! ;)

You could say: choen/tsoen but it *is* difficult to present as text. Anyway, I'm sure Phil knows what he is talking about.

Gotcha on the 'ng' and 'um'.

How about 'gwok' (country) pronounced as 'gok' (corner/angle)?
It is so easy to be 'lazy' though, especially if you speak fast and slur a bit. I have to watch myself a bit with my son in case I'm teaching him incorrect pronunciation and tones.
Correct, Chuen or the way you spelled it would be more correct but definately not the "gun" pronounciation like most westerners use. I'll check my dictionary for the Yale Romanization.
Thanks for the input. :)
Phil

[LoneTiger108]

I agree that there are varied dialects, but its interesting to see an 'English' thread trying to explain Chinese characters. When we noted our lectures, we were asked to make it understandable to ourselves and tried not to get riddled with confusion by following a 'state' example which was still changing. This meant that we all had our own interpretation and ways to spell characters in English which you could say totally individualized what we each took into the mind(?)

Quoting myself again here because I feel that some are trying to discredit me here on my 'own' way of writing 'sounds'. Seems crazy but its true. I, in no way, suggested this is how the latest dictionary spells the word in english. And I tended not to use many dictionary examples because, like I said earlier, there was no 'state' example being promoted by the Chinese government.

Does this make me wrong and line me up to be shamed? I wouldn't think so, but some of you are quite harsh! lol!

PHIL "Correct, Chuen or the way you spelled it would be more correct but definately not the "gun" pronounciation like most westerners use. I'll check my dictionary for the Yale Romanization."

I actually agree here, but you will still find 'Chun' in the dictionary (American?) and it was just easier to teach beginners as this was how we also spelt in English, except in the obvious VT, WT lineages.

PHIL "I think you might be speaking about the radical that it used with the "Wing" character in most WC. That radical to the left of the character "wing" means to recite/speak/praise. There has to be Chinese people where you are so that you can check out what I say. You're waaaaaaay off base."

I wasn't referring to the 'Wing' character here either. I was talking of the word for 'song or verse' which is a different character altogether found on certain scrolls which talk of 'spreading the word'.

CFT "Nim tau = idea
Nim shu = reciting literature"

Finally, this one has always interested me. Are you saying that the sound for the written N is still actually an L? Or are you saying my Sifu had a lazy tongue? I guess you would also ask someone: Ni Hao Mar? instead of Lay Hao Mar?

[YungChun]

Ni Hao Mar? instead of Lay Hao Mar?
This is one crazy thread..

In any case, that sounds like Mandarin vs Cantonese and I don't even speak...

[CFT]

Finally, this one has always interested me. Are you saying that the sound for the written N is still actually an L? Or are you saying my Sifu had a lazy tongue? I guess you would also ask someone: Ni Hao Mar? instead of Lay Hao Mar?The original words actually have an initial "n" sound rather than "l".

Examples:

Boy/girl
Original: nam/neui
"Lazy": lam/leui

Year
Original: nin
"Lazy": lin

You
Original: nei
"Lazy": lei

The drift has been going on for some time, so yes your sifu could be "lazy". It is prevalent in the HK media so overseas Chinese could easily pick it up too. I also think there is a village/city distinction/prejudice working here as well.

In answer to your question, I would say "nei hou maa" but I would guess most HK Cantonese speakers *would* say "lei hou maa". It has become the norm but the classical way is not wrong either; you just might be taken for a village yokel though.

[Phil Redmond]

. . . I wasn't referring to the 'Wing' character here either. I was talking of the word for 'song or verse' which is a different character altogether found on certain scrolls which talk of 'spreading the word'.
Oh my bad. You were refering to the word Cheung as in Cheunggo(sing a song).

[Phil Redmond]

. . . .The drift has been going on for some time, so yes your sifu could be "lazy". It is prevalent in the HK media so overseas Chinese could easily pick it up too. I also think there is a village/city distinction/prejudice working here as well.
In answer to your question, I would say "nei hou maa" but I would guess most HK Cantonese speakers *would* say "lei hou maa". It has become the norm but the classical way is not wrong either; you just might be taken for a village yokel though.

I got the same impression about some sort of "eliteness" from my Cantonese teacher. She would say things like "Siman yahn m'wuih gong" Intellectuals wouldn't say it that way. Eliteism (sp)? is the same in most languages though.

[CFT]

I got the same impression about some sort of "eliteness" from my Cantonese teacher. She would say things like "Siman yahn m'wuih gong" Intellectuals wouldn't say it that way. Eliteism (sp)? is the same in most languages though.I wouldn't say that "si man yahn" necessarily refers to intellectuals. It is more like "civil people", maybe "cultured people" but the latter would imply a degree of intellectualism IMO.

[Phil Redmond]

I wouldn't say that "si man yahn" necessarily refers to intellectuals. It is more like "civil people", maybe "cultured people" but the latter would imply a degree of intellectualism IMO.
Yeah, she probably should have used Chungming yahn . . lol

[ntc]

Acutally, I think the context in "Si Man Yahn" actually refers to either the "well-mannered" person or the "educated" person. "Si Man" basically implies non-rough and in Hong Kong it is frequently referred to a polite, well-mannered individual. "Chung Ming" does mean intellectual, but the intellectual can also be a rough person and not necessarily civil. Just as being "si man" does not automatically imply that the person is an intellectual ("chung ming"). We typically don't associate "chung ming" with "si man". A civil person, however, is going to be well-mannered and less likely (if at all) going to be rough-natured.

[CFT]

Acutally, I think the context in "Si Man Yahn" actually refers to either the "well-mannered" person or the "educated" person. "Si Man" basically implies non-rough and in Hong Kong it is frequently referred to a polite, well-mannered individual. "Chung Ming" does mean intellectual, but the intellectual can also be a rough person and not necessarily civil. Just as being "si man" does not automatically imply that the person is an intellectual ("chung ming"). We typically don't associate "chung ming" with "si man". A civil person, however, is going to be well-mannered and less likely (if at all) going to be rough-natured.None of us are "si man" then ... <burp>, <pfft> ;)

[Phil Redmond]

Acutally, I think the context in "Si Man Yahn" actually refers to either the "well-mannered" person or the "educated" person. "Si Man" basically implies non-rough and in Hong Kong it is frequently referred to a polite, well-mannered individual. "Chung Ming" does mean intellectual, but the intellectual can also be a rough person and not necessarily civil. Just as being "si man" does not automatically imply that the person is an intellectual ("chung ming"). We typically don't associate "chung ming" with "si man". A civil person, however, is going to be well-mannered and less likely (if at all) going to be rough-natured.
Actually I was taught that for a man "si man" meant gentleman. You and CFT are native speakers so I can always learn from you both.
Phil

[ntc]

"Actually I was taught that for a man "si man" meant gentleman. You and CFT are native speakers so I can always learn from you both.
Phil "
--> You are actually correct. Because a gentleman gives the impression of well-mannered and mild-natured. And so, when we say that a person is "si-man", there is an implication of good manners, gentleman-like attitude, clean-cut type.

Oh, and by the way, from what I have observed on this thread, your Cantonese is pretty good.

[Phil Redmond]

"Actually I was taught that for a man "si man" meant gentleman. You and CFT are native speakers so I can always learn from you both.
Phil "
--> You are actually correct. Because a gentleman gives the impression of well-mannered and mild-natured. And so, when we say that a person is "si-man", there is an implication of good manners, gentleman-like attitude, clean-cut type.

Oh, and by the way, from what I have observed on this thread, your Cantonese is pretty good.
Thx, Actually it used to be better when I was in NYC. When I moved to Detroit most of the Chinese there spoke Fu Chow (Fuzhou) so I lost some of my tones. Now I have to repeat myself to get the right tone. There is a stance in the pole form called Diu Mah (hanging horse).
I was explaining it during class and had to ask a one of the Cantonese students the right intonation since it sounds so much like the infamous Cantonese swear . . .lol

[Phil Redmond]

This thread was specifically about proper Cantonese Romanization. I thought it was important because some people think the WT, VT, WC, etc, are different, yet the Chinese characters are the same. It may not be important to some but among some Chinese there still in the feeling that Westerners aren't able to fully grasp Chinese martial arts because of language. It may not matter to some but it does matter to me. I don't speak incorrectly in any language. I'm multi-lingual and I strive to pronounce any language properly. My adversion to the teaching of "Ebonics" in the States is one example. If you're going to do something then do it right. If anyone pronounces the "V" in Ving Tsun you might not be inderstood by a native Cantonese speaker. Recently someone seemed offended that I spelled Ip Man's name, Yip Man. Now I understand that individuals have the right to spell their names anyway they want and I respect that. But, if I'm talking to a native Cantonese speaker I WILL say Yip Man in order to be understood.
Peace

[stonecrusher69]

Hey Phil is cantonese harder to learn then or mandarin?

[LoneTiger108]

This thread was specifically about proper Cantonese Romanization.

Wow! I remember this thread! (But had forgotten about it like most others)

The Ip/Yip as far as pronounciation goes makes sense the way you say here Phil as I too would do the same. Although when I write the name these days I will always use Ip, as this was (apparently) an instruction by the Ip Family. Noted more now seeing as this was the way they wrote it on the movie!

I never thought at the time of writing on this thread that there would ever be an Ip Man movie, but here we are.

[Phil Redmond]

Hey Phil is cantonese harder to learn then or mandarin?
Most definitely. Most scholars agree that there are 7 tones in Cantonese. Whereas there are only 4 in Mandarin. A word's meaning can be completely different based on the "musical note" you use. Hai can be the verb 'to be', a shoe, a point in space, and woman's sexual organ, a crab, etc. I lived in Detroit for 10 years and lost my ear for tones. Most Chinese there spoke Fukinese or Mandarin. I never had that problem when I lived in NYC. Now when I teach the Diu Mah stance (hanging horse) in the pole form I have to be careful how I say it. It could mean (fill in the blank) your mother.

[Phil Redmond]

Wow! I remember this thread! (But had forgotten about it like most others)

The Ip/Yip as far as pronounciation goes makes sense the way you say here Phil as I too would do the same. Although when I write the name these days I will always use Ip, as this was (apparently) an instruction by the Ip Family. Noted more now seeing as this was the way they wrote it on the movie!

I never thought at the time of writing on this thread that there would ever be an Ip Man movie, but here we are.
I've been in the habit of writing Yip but if the family prefers Ip then I should respect that. I hate it when people write my name with one L. :(

[LoneTiger108]

I hate it when people write my name with one L. :(

Hmm :confused: You hate yourself?

I still never clarified what 'Choon' I was referring to and on the same PC, so know chinese characters to put here for you...

Nevermind. It can wait another few years I suppose!

[Phil Redmond]

Hmm :confused: You hate yourself?
Actually I was referring to my "complete" name which is Phillip. Some people spell it Philip. ;)


I still never clarified what 'Choon' I was referring to and on the same PC, so know chinese characters to put here for you...

Nevermind. It can wait another few years I suppose!
I wrote Choon but Cheun is closer to the correct pronunciation of WC,VT,WT.

[CFT]

Depending on your romanization scheme, Yip/Ip could be spelled Jip/Jyip. We should get to hung up on romanization. We all appeciate what characters they represent.

[Phil Redmond]

There are some people who still think that VT/WT/WC are different systems. There are differences among all martial arts teachers even in the same style but WC/VT/WT/YC still use the same Chinese characters. We have to understand that. Chinese people do.

[Runlikehell]

The same core system, different expressions, IMHO.

[LoneTiger108]

There are some people who still think that VT/WT/WC are different systems. There are differences among all martial arts teachers even in the same style but WC/VT/WT/YC still use the same Chinese characters. We have to understand that. Chinese people do.

Well said Phil :)

Some who do sit outside of 'character' are the 'Weng Chun' group fme as they tend to connect their name to the weng chun tong of Siulam (Shaolin) This Weng character is pretty much the same but it's missing some initial strokes.

http://www.wengchun.co.uk/

Still, if we all agree that our martial heritage passed through Shaolin, the Opera Boats or Leung Jan, then we are all connected. The system is the system. Personal style is where we all see differences, and sometimes that will be because the system itself was not understood or taught completely :eek:

Ip Mans curriculum itself is far from complete imho which has not helped westerners at all

[Lee Chiang Po]

M'goi sai. M'gan yiu ah. Ngo haih haak yahn dahnhaai Ngo sihk gong Gwondung Wah. Neih hou chungming yahn ah.
Fei Lihk (Phillip)

UUh, you want fish or clam sauce with that?

[Phil Redmond]

UUh, you want fish or clam sauce with that?
Mou, Ngo jungyi si yau

[Vajramusti]

UUh, you want fish or clam sauce with that?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A touch of good tamarind sauce or mint sauce would do fine. thank you. But please no ketchup.

joy chaudhuri