How do you fight a taller person?

[Shaolin Dude]

any tips? It's a little hard to reach their head

[bodhitree]

It depends on how they fight.

If they know how to use there height, you need to press forward, get inside, possibly take them down. WHat kind of fight are you talking about, street, mma, boxing, wrestling? It all depends. One thing, just don't stay at there comfrotable range. Always take the opponents fight away from them.

[YMC]

"Monkey steals peach" Dude! If you can't reach the head, go for what most guys think with. :D

Shaolin Dude, you know me so you know that what I have to offer isn't worth much, but try to work your way inside (easier said than done of course.) To echo bodhitree's point, many times, taller guys get used to their reach advantage and don't feel as comfortable close up.

[n.mitch]

kick em in the knee cap bring em down to your height. ha ha

[viper]

drive forward im 5 , 6 so almost anyone is taller then me just go straight at them. My genreal with long armed people get to the elbows seems to be my range and tere uncomfortable. Once your there jumping knee upper cuts thats if you just want to hit the head but theres more to a person the4n there head bigger target area. happy hunting

[n.mitch]

The easiest way that i have found is to deflect their 1st or second strike then rush them and get in close once in close you have nulified there height and reach advantage stay close to them and fight as normal

[monkeyfoot]

I find it extremely daunting if I were to fight a big guy. I wouldn't want to catch a punch in the face so I would want to rush in to reduce being hit by a full swing. But then I have the problem of getting bear hugged or if they use their strength up close with grabs/throws.

In the end if the head is high then shoot out a finger strike to the throat and drop them with that. Also try a lower leg bumping kick and take off their knee cap so you can work around to their sides.

How the hell did luke skywalker take our the walking heavy armour, he screwed up the legs!

craig

[Shaolin Dude]

we just do regular kickboxing in my school. this dude is like almost a foot taller than me.

[Phil Redmond]

Shin, knee, thigh kicks, body shots.
PR

[Sifu Darkfist]

well all above posts are correct esp the infighting advice however the infighting is only good if you have superior skill. All other situations call for what my master has taught me is the mainstay of SEVEN STAR praying manits. "go to his 45"
45 45 45 45 degree attack" Go outside but stay in contact do not break contact slide out around the punch and rush to his 45 with relentless attacks. he will not recover his balance due to natural feet position. all who know the first punch in Bung Bu already know one method. if not just experiment and watch out for elbows meanwhile use yours like there is no tommorrow.

[monkeyfoot]

Agreed sifu darkfist, the beginning of bung bo is most effective. Like you mentioned, the positioning of this move allows you to really catch them in an awkward position. I personally prefere using the outer gate when fighting people, if you stay low and drive in fast to their organs and weak points you can take them down effectively.

In wingchun the use of an outer gate right tan sou followed by a left pak sou when being hit from a straight punch is also a great way to get that angle and rush in.

Sifu Darkfist - the 2 moves after 'catching the cicarda' in the beginning of bung bo.....do you personally link these from the 2 moves before, or do you use them as separate applications to simply charge down your opponent from head on. Im only interested as I have seen different takes on the application to this.

Craig

[Sifu Darkfist]

i dont want to highjack this thread and thats exactly what this question will do lol so meet me in northern praying mantis.

[Mr Punch]

In wingchun the use of an outer gate right tan sou followed by a left pak sou when being hit from a straight punch is also a great way to get that angle and rush in.Sure, go to the 45... but a) it's very difficult getting to the outside of a longer armed guy safely and turning his corner if he doesnt want you to, and b) open that gate and control the inside of his arms on your way in (eg bouncing off his bicep with a tan-hook-elbow).

Anyway, my advice is the flying headbutt!;) :D

[Cobra Commander]

If its a real life situation, pick up a stick if you can.

And strike the city full of sinners as if you are God...

[Chief Fox]

I fight a taller person the exact same way I fight a smaller person. I try to cover or deffend my easy targets while I try to exploit their easy targets.

Taller person: They have reach on their side so I try to close the gap and get in close to take their legs away. I cover up high so they don't pound on my head. I go for low kicks, body shots and that wonderful upper cut. Among other things.

Smaller person: I use a lot of over the head hammer fists to get them thinking high and then follow up with a kick to the body. Among other things.

[SevenStar]

Taller people generally have the advantage of reach. When this is the case, the only thing that will help you is footwork. You have to be able to move inside of their range. Once you get inside, work their body, make use of hooks, knees, elbows and uppercuts and make angles on him - don't stand in one place. Think about tyson in his prime. He was short for a heavyweight. He used superior footwork to get inside of everyone. Now, watch him today - he can't get inside anymore and he gets killed. footwork is key.

darkfist has the right idea, but I disagree that once you take his 45 and attack that he will not regain balance. There are no absolutes in fighting. Ideally, you don't want him to regain, but realistically, he very well may. you can't always retain contact either.

[Cobra Commander]

Do not give in to their physical intimidation through their body langauge, tone of voice, or bravedo.

YOu must stand your ground yet be relaxed and not too threatening. Often a bully know's his prey...

Stepping in is good as long as you occupy his hands/feet from not damaging YOU while you are counter attacking Tall guy.

Remember not every tall guy is the same. Some may actually be very efficient in fighting and what not.

Never anticipate but adapt and accept the possibilities both negative/positive.

[TheSnake]

I dont have much combat experience on the street, but my step dad was always knocking people out on the street when I was younger. He was black, angry, 6'5", 250 pounds, he was a 4th degree black belt in ishinru, and also had training in other arts like Kune Tao(I think this is how its spelled).

I will say this, for everything there is a complimentary. If someone is trying to intimidate you, you can bend with their intimidation encouraging their arrogance and helping them to get ****y. When you are thinking about everything(All your tools), and if you have the total approach to combat, there is ALWAYS a way. If you have some sort of segmented approach to combat(Style), you will have your limitations, especially when going up against someone larger than you. Against someones larger size, you have your own size as an advantage. The smaller size should be looked at as a complimentary advantage to the larger opponent.

You need to practice your techniques in a real life situation of course and you have to be practical. Here is some practical advice. Like I said above, you can always trick your opponent mentally or confuse them by encouraging something that will give you an advantage(THeir own arrogance). In conquering adversity, you must first bend with it. Play as if you are intimidated by him, and apply your fighting skills in this way for a short time, then you can instantaneously and swiftly change your tempo and your gameplan and utilize your speed for some explosively hard shots. Use ALL YOUR MIGHT! Remember, emotional content is necassary. When expressing a technique, especially against a giant, you need emotional content. Make the committment and punch through his face when he thinks your weak.

Mike Tysons powerful punching techniques improved because of the emotional content involved. What would have been a regular technique, became completely anger fueled. You wanted this same devastating power, but without the anger. And you have to erupt at the correct moment. The power that you have, your opponent should not believe in.

[SevenStar]

Stepping in is good as long as you occupy his hands/feet from not damaging YOU while you are counter attacking Tall guy.

Remember not every tall guy is the same. Some may actually be very efficient in fighting and what not.

Never anticipate but adapt and accept the possibilities both negative/positive.

whether or not he is adept at infighting doesn't matter. If you are at the reach disadvantage, you MUST get inside in order to hit the guy. consequently you have to make angles and move in. You don't have to occupy his hands and feet either. There is no need to chase limbs. Rather, you avoid them. I'll refer again to tyson in his prime for that one.

If you make angles, where his limbs are are of less importance also. when he punches, if you slip to the outside, you just zoned off most of his weapons. Angles and footwork.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

everything seven star said and learn to root and be mobile at the same time. or just make sure when you hit you hit like a train ... it's easier for them to hit you so you got to work harder at making sure yours count.

forget the head if its too high .... just work with whats there and the head will ask to be hit eventually. people underestimate body shots. couple solid hooks/elbows to the floating ribs are no joke.

learn to grapple. if it wont help you in your current class learn it anyway. i think its even more important for us smaller guys to know the ground than bigger guys. get good at chokes (short arms are awesome for chokes from what i've been seeing) and i'm guessing throws. being good at throws seems to make sense due to a lower center of gravity, but i'm just now starting to work on it so i can't say for sure.

[Zaharia]

As a shorter person myself, I can add this valuable piece of informationg..... GO FOR THE BALLS!!!! Check it out....

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.harmonline.net/images/jerry/monkey_steals_peach.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.harmonline.net/jerry/archives/000761.html&h=594&w=338&sz=24&tbnid=0XiJyDJB8O0J:&tbnh=133&tbnw=75&hl=en&ei=Uvi-Q6CWJ5mgQZuI6LwO&sig2=cbkKKsE3XXjZq_EBmj70EA&start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3DtHE%2BMONKEY%2BSTEALS%2BTHE%2BPEACH%2 6svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff

[hskwarrior]

i would agree with zaharia,

go for the jewels.

but you have to realize something first. In a street confrontation most of the time people tend to be head hunters. always trying to knock a block off, but since you may be shorter and to knock his block off would require you to punch upwards, it is much much easier and more effective to use body shots, or punch kick tear, juggle, squeeze, bite, or whatever his nasty ass BALLS!!!

once you demolish the family jewels, he will come down to your level where you can finish the job.

something else you should realize. the head is able to take some very severe damage, while the body can't. people have been hit in the head with baseball bats and were still able to continue fighting, but if you break a rib, arm leg, or whatever the fight could be over instantly.

another thing, and this is my personal secret but its time to share with everyone.
when faced with a violent confrotation, two men are likely to get nose to nose and try to intimate each other. NEVER take your eyes away from his. This is the perfect opportunity to execute a devastating nut shot. No man wants to feel like he's been punked, so if you were to get him to think he has the upper hand you can STRIKE when he's clueless.

trust me it works.

[Samurai Jack]

My ex-wife really liked that technique. I think the attorney taught it to her.

[hskwarrior]

SHHHHHH, don't let my girl know that, she may use that sheet on me.:mad:

but seriously, has anyone here ever taught their girlfriends a few techniques only to have it backfire because she used it on you?:rolleyes:

My girl (my spicy latina killing machine;) ) is a little fighter, she loves to kick so i won't teach her any kicks. but the funny thing about it is i am always throwing punches at her (just playing around with her ) and when she got iritated she began putting her hands up and start blocking. buy after almost 3 years of me doing this to her she is now blocking me without thinking now.

just the other day I went to play slap her and i knew she would block it so i tried to set her up. I threw the first blow and when she blocked i instantly threw a second shot at her and withitout flinching she block it also and suddenly all you hear is screaming "OOOOOOHHHHHHHH" the i say "so you think you're the sheet now, huh!?!?!?!:mad:


hsk

[Zaharia]

Agghh - FLASHBACK!!!! - BAD RELATIONSHIP!!!! - BAD RELATIONSHIP!!!!

[hskwarrior]

sorry, you'll be ok.

[Zaharia]

Thanks for the support, dude.

[Gen3sis74]

Depending on how big the person is I would suggest you take them to the ground especially if you are short and stocky. Ive seen how short people do against taller people, just the other day I saw a shorter black guy (around 5'4" and 135 pound) fight against a white guy (5'10" around 160 pounds). The two went at each other, the black guy went low and landed two jabs on the white guy, the white guy missing and they both went into a standing grapple, the white guy stopping the black guy from punching anymore. The 2 stood grappled for a rather long time, the white guy was eventually able to lift the black guy up and scoop slam him, however along the way the black guy was able to get a nice grab around the white guys head. As the two fell, the black guy was able to put the white guy on his head as they went down. The black guy then held him there and the black guy kept him held while the white guy struggled to get free. Sadly a dog from down the street came up barking and bit the white dude on the face, the white dogs owner was also white, im assuming this happened because the white dude was on top. After the bite the black guy let the white guy go. The white guy was holding his head and face also revealing several scratches he had taken from the fall. The black guy appeared completely unharmed and was ready to fight the white guy again, the black guy actually struck him in the face afterwards, and the white dude did nothing. The black guy was short and pretty stocky, he had some pretty big forearms as well.

[SimonM]

whether or not he is adept at infighting doesn't matter. If you are at the reach disadvantage, you MUST get inside in order to hit the guy. .


Sevenstar is right. I am a big guy. I like infighting. I like it a lot. Elbows, knees and throws are three of my favorite tools. And yet when I've faced shorter people the ones who let me keep them out at long range get slaughtered. Those who close have done much better. There are two people who I used to spar with regularly who could massacre me. One was exactly the same height as me. The other was MUCH shorter than me and he did basically exactly what SevenStar said: he made good use of angles, he got in, got his shots, and then got out.

[Zaharia]

Going down to the ground is fine - assuming that you are in a safe environment i.e. there is no glass, or any other hazardous material on the ground, and that you are only facing one opponent. Needless to say, if you go to the grount when your opponent is part of a gang, the chances are you're going to be massacred. Like I said earlier - go for the balls. Or, you can go for the legs, in particular the outer thigh, as this will give your opponent a 'dead leg', thereby debilitating him, and subsequently finishing the opponent off with a vast aray of 'weapons'.

[SimonM]

The outer thigh may not be the best of targets unless you have a godawfully powerful kick. I have a tendency to walk straight through kicks to the outer thigh. Hip joint, knee joint and kidney are my choice of roundhouse targets... Depending on angle and availability.

[Zaharia]

True. However, if one can get inside the opponent and make contact with the upper forearm, e.g. by blocking a punch, the effect of kicking the outer thigh will be devastating. This is taken from Chinese accupuncture - they believe that the meridians in the upper forearm are the element *metal*, and the meridians in the outer thigh are *wood*. Metal cuts wood, and therefore the effect is greater. Trust me, it works.

By the way, to roundhouse kick someone directly to the kidneys is practically suicide, as your opponent can easily grab your leg. This would be good for a progressive/follow up attack, though.

Also, one has to be careful when roundhousing the hip joint, as one must use the shin to collide with the target.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i hate to give you tall ****ers any more of an advantage on us short guys, but i would also warn for shorter people to watch overhead.

well see how i do now in a month or so, but before i used to always get clobbered by anything that came from over my head no matter what the target was. id tuck my chin a lil and start targeting their ribs or chin then blam ... id get nailed with a nazi punch to the bridge of the nose.

maybe its just me though.

[SimonM]

Who me? A head hunter? No...

:D:D:D:D:D

[green_willow]

Who me? A head hunter? No...

:D:D:D:D:D

What about using TKD and lots of high kicks. you could use that to KO the taller guy. If your legs can't reach - use the jumping reverse turning kick. The shorter guy can always jump to get the height advantage

[Zaharia]

That's all good and well, assuming that your opponent has the reactions of a sloth, and you can pull of the kick with maximum proficiency. Besides, you could never pull of such a move if you were in close range, as is the case in most street-fights. Also, such moves are 'fine-motor skills', so the chances are, no matter how proficient a TKD man/woman one is, adrenaline is going to prevent one from performing such a skill, unless of course one has been in many fights, and no longer feels the effects of the adrenaline. The best attacks one can use are 'gross-motor skills', such as headbut's, knee's, and elbow's, (in the close quarter range, that is).

[green_willow]

That's all good and well, assuming that your opponent has the reactions of a sloth, and you can pull of the kick with maximum proficiency. Besides, you could never pull of such a move if you were in close range, as is the case in most street-fights. Also, such moves are 'fine-motor skills', so the chances are, no matter how proficient a TKD man/woman one is, adrenaline is going to prevent one from performing such a skill, unless of course one has been in many fights, and no longer feels the effects of the adrenaline. The best attacks one can use are 'gross-motor skills', such as headbut's, knee's, and elbow's, (in the close quarter range, that is).

Fortunately big and tall people are generally slower. you must stop them from getting into close range and getting you in a bear hug. In that case, your best hope is that the big guys gets over confident and monologues before trying for a big finish. if you're on the ground and kick their knee caps you fall them like an oak tree.

[SimonM]

What about using TKD and lots of high kicks. you could use that to KO the taller guy. If your legs can't reach - use the jumping reverse turning kick. The shorter guy can always jump to get the height advantage

I love it when twerps try stuff like that. I call it: Simon puts some dumb TKD point sparrer on their a$$.

[green_willow]

I love it when twerps try stuff like that. I call it: Simon puts some dumb TKD point sparrer on their a$$.

The TKD sparrer will remind you that you don't get points for this.

[SimonM]

I'd imagine that head butts, elbows to the face and the good, old-fashioned, jab to the nose don't get you points in TKD tournaments. I'll still keep on using them though...

[Zaharia]

Fortunately big and tall people are generally slower. you must stop them from getting into close range and getting you in a bear hug. In that case, your best hope is that the big guys gets over confident and monologues before trying for a big finish. if you're on the ground and kick their knee caps you fall them like an oak tree.

That is just a generalisation: of course, if your opponent is fat, he will be sluggish, bit if he is muscular, his strikes will be very powerful. The bigger the muscle mass, the greater the potential for power and speed.
Also, most of the time, one is not able to control the opening range of a fight, esspecially by trying 'fine-motor attacks'.
And a bear hug is probably the easiest submission to get out of: elbow's to the head, biting, knee's to the balls, outer palm chops to the kidney's, etc; these all work in getting out of such a submission.
There's one thing that everyone should remember: planning a defence against any situation is pointless, as the situation may, and inevitably will vary. Therefore, one must learn a variety of possibilities of how to defend oneself in such a situation.

[Mr Punch]

I take it you're joking?:D
Fortunately big and tall people are generally slower. To paraphrase Kungfu Cowboy, only if they graduated in Lumbering at Oafery University. Done any surveys to back this up? Of the four people I train with who are taller than me (I'm 6'1: they're 6'3, 6'5, 6'5, 6'6) only one is slower than me and I'm pretty **** fast. And of the others, we're pretty much even, and it doesn't make a lot of difference. One guy who's the same height as me at 25 kgs heavier (and it ain't all muscle) is only a tad slower, and his strength more than makes up for it.


you must stop them from getting into close range and getting you in a bear hug. Now I know you're joking... If they're bigger than you and they've graduated in Lumbering at Oafery University before the Masters in Two Handed Bum's Rushes at the Scooby Doo Villains' School of Continuing Studies. Who the **** rushes in with a bear hug as their primary attack!? :D


In that case, your best hope is that the big guys gets over confident and monologues before trying for a big finish.'Monologues'?! Yeah, if you're fighting a guy who's bigger than you, graduated in Lumbering at Oafery University, mastered in Two Handed Bum's Rushes at the Scooby Doo Villains' School of Continuing Studies and doctored in Melodrama at the James Bond School of Higher Education.

You do know what monologue means? I guess you've really got an advantage if the poor dumb moose suddenly stops and hits you with the Hamlet... :rolleyes:


if you're on the ground and kick their knee caps you fall them like an oak tree.That's definitely true. From experience, oak trees are ****ing hard to fell, and you have about as much chance just trying to kick their knee-caps from the ground as trying to fell an oak tree with the same tactics!:p

[Zaharia]

[QUOTE]if you're on the ground and kick their knee caps you fall them like an oak tree. [QUOTE]
"The bigger they are, the harder they fall.... on you".

[Matrix]

Done any surveys to back this up? Of the four people I train with who are taller than me (I'm 6'1: they're 6'3, 6'5, 6'5, 6'6) only one is slower than me and I'm pretty **** fast. And of the others, we're pretty much even, and it doesn't make a lot of difference. One guy who's the same height as me at 25 kgs heavier (and it ain't all muscle) is only a tad slower, and his strength more than makes up for it.
Hey Mat,
Great points all around.
So, how about sharing some of your insights and experience to answer the original question. You never know, there may be some Scooby Snacks in it for you. ;)

Any pointers??:)

[Mr Punch]

Nah, not really.

Seven's on the thread: I get tired of following that c0cky suvabeech around saying 'What Seven said.'! :D

OK, so sometimes I disagree with him, but he seems to have this one all sown up. Apart from that YouKnowWho's 'knee seizing' sounds like a good idea from what I've seen of shuai chuao (sp?) but it isn't in my skill set.

If we're talking techs, I like a simple double leg shoot, but making sure you reap sideways, as opposed to going straight back. In wing chun I do the same as shooto: work combos to keep them busy, esp changing the height etc, as I try to work in to the inside and bounce tan into hook/uppercut/elbow off the inside of their arms if they're good at the close-up game.

I'm very happy very close, and quite good at working sweeps, trips and all that lovely chi gerk stuff into the clinches. I suck at getting there, and if they're bigger than me I expect to eat a big one on the way in. That's life!

One more thing to add. As I said I'm 6'1 myself so I can usually pressurize the head... I find that headhunting as part of a set of short kick combos is very effective... and I do like to bob and weave when neccessary even in wing chun (I find it an ideal vehicle for some of the principles from Biu Gee) and these things combined often lead to a good clear uppercut, and when I have that aiki head controls follow on like clockwork (eg, after the first percussive uppercut/bounce punch/elbow etc) a good palm-heel drive up centreline into the chin, angling the hand to roll the head around for the kuzushi.

It ain't foolproof but what is?! They do have a tendency to slip their head out of it, esp if you lose your footing (its difficult keeping that drive going through if they're really big) but... It does put a lot of pressure on, and get them off balance so even if you cant get a throw/takedown / sweep etc, it still takes them a while to recover.

[Zaharia]

Good points. You mentioned something that I forgot to mention. If one is smaler than one's opponent, a knockout can be attained by simply uppercutting him. The area between the groin and the chin is a blind-spot, so your opponent won't see it coming.

[Sekabin]

Good points. You mentioned something that I forgot to mention. If one is smaler than one's opponent, a knockout can be attained by simply uppercutting him. The area between the groin and the chin is a blind-spot, so your opponent won't see it coming.

Very true, but remember the tall person is no stranger to being tall and unless they're from the Lumbering... what Mat said, they'll be pretty used to covering up and very conscious of a shorter guy getting close in for that sort of setup. Having said that, headbutts have caught me off guard a few times. :o

[green_willow]

Good points. You mentioned something that I forgot to mention. If one is smaler than one's opponent, a knockout can be attained by simply uppercutting him. The area between the groin and the chin is a blind-spot, so your opponent won't see it coming.

Yeah tell me about it. I was at this club once and had a few too many. anyway this bouncer was some sh1tty little dwarf. I told him where to stick it and Bam he head butted me in the nuts.

That's the last time I look down on small people. Some dwarf move so fast like when they know caporera or something - what they lack in size they make up in attitude.

[Mr Punch]

LOL! :D

You sure got me on your last one, Green Willow![/Shaggy from Scooby Doo voice]

Sek:

they'll be pretty used to covering up and very conscious of a shorter guy getting close in for that sort of setup...Sure, but some classic combos are classics because they have a high chance of succeeding! And even quite experienced people often have difficulty recognising the combo before the last one hits them! In fact, the more you strain to recognise a combo the slower your reactions... but anyway... sure, generally I agree.

Also, of course, the more you train with the same big mutant, er, large gentleman, the more used to your strategies he is, eh Sek?!:p ;) I used to be able to get on your inside much better: then after I'd got in with a couple of shots your eyes would just glaze over and you'd go kind of limp, remember!? :D Just like you used to be able to reach over and slap the top of my head...! :mad: :( :o

Having said that:
Having said that, headbutts have caught me off guard a few times... you don't seem to be able to read that set-up! Hehehe.:cool:

[Matrix]

That's the last time I look down on small people. Some dwarf move so fast like when they know caporera or something - what they lack in size they make up in attitude.That's some story. :D
It really does make it clear that anyone can be threat to you. Making judgements about people based solely on physical appearance often leads to us to the wrong conclusion. Therefore always assume that the person in front of you can hurt you.
This also goes for TKD sparrers. As a rule, most of them fall into a farily weak category, but there are some guys who will had you your head on a plate if you're not careful.
Any type of generalization can get you trouble...

[Zaharia]

Very true, but remember the tall person is no stranger to being tall and unless they're from the Lumbering... what Mat said, they'll be pretty used to covering up and very conscious of a shorter guy getting close in for that sort of setup. Having said that, headbutts have caught me off guard a few times. :o

True... but if you can open you opponent up i.e. by striking to the kidneys, ribs, etc... you may be able to get your opponent to drop his guard. One should only do this when the oppertunity of a one-strike knockout does not arrise

[green_willow]

That's some story. :D
It really does make it clear that anyone can be threat to you. Making judgements about people based solely on physical appearance often leads to us to the wrong conclusion. Therefore always assume that the person in front of you can hurt you.
This also goes for TKD sparrers. As a rule, most of them fall into a farily weak category, but there are some guys who will had you your head on a plate if you're not careful.
Any type of generalization can get you trouble...

But sometimes little people get too large for the shoes when the accept a challenge agaisnt any man, beast or machine.

http://www.fmft.net/archives/BBC_NEWS.htm

[tansaujosh]

it all depends on the factors the fight involves. firstly is the guy tall and built/heavy or is the guy tall and slim/light. lets say the guy is heavy, ull wait for the guy 2 make the move ....lure the guy, if he isnt moving jus go strate dwn the middle fast and accurate. if its a success and u get inside ur opppnent pound him kik the knee caps shins and groin as u pund the neck and face and move as fast as u can strate bak out, that shud do the job if ur strikes are powerful. if he is lite and slim, move in fast and do the same but stay there and dont stop till the guy is dwn.





Simplicity, Efficiency and Practicality~~~~~~~~WING CHUN

[Trey]

Well it seems this topic has benn beate..TO DEATH! And i didnt even bother to read the whole thread, but ill tell you what UI would do, and indeed it is in conjunction with what some of you have already said.

If I were to face someone taller than me, no matter what, I would B Line straight for them, thus taking away alot of their power and weapons. Basically what im saying is that I would explode into them like a frigging locamotive, but dont get me wrong, it would be very controlled. I would also utilize a low fighting stance as well as fighting on angles, to find openings that could otherwise not be located.
Very simple...very effective.

[SimonM]

Ooh! A baseball! Kerack! Home Run!!!!!

[Zaharia]

If I were to face someone taller than me, no matter what, I would B Line straight for them, thus taking away alot of their power and weapons. Basically what im saying is that I would explode into them like a frigging locamotive, but dont get me wrong, it would be very controlled. I would also utilize a low fighting stance as well as fighting on angles, to find openings that could otherwise not be located.
Very simple...very effective.

That's all good and well, assuming that your opponent doesn't have particularly good body awareness. In JKD, we have what is called a 'Critical Distance Zone', which is basically an area in which your opponent can hit you. An adaquate JKD man could simply keep you at bay with something so simple as a sidekick to your knee.
If your fighting a Judo or Jiu Jutsu man, making a B line for them would simply give them another weapon. They will use the extra force of your thrusted body weight, and use it against you.
Your low stance is a good technique, assuming you know how to do it and not give away your intention. Your opponent may be able to see what you plan to do by such seemingly inconspicuous things as your footwork. Also, if you're in a public place, lets say a bar, for arguments sake, taking a stance may not be a good idea. If you want your attack to be as inconspicuous as possible, taking no-stance would be a better idea.

[Zaharia]

If I were to face someone taller than me, no matter what, I would B Line straight for them, thus taking away alot of their power and weapons. Basically what im saying is that I would explode into them like a frigging locamotive, but dont get me wrong, it would be very controlled. I would also utilize a low fighting stance as well as fighting on angles, to find openings that could otherwise not be located.
Very simple...very effective.

That's all good and well, assuming that your opponent doesn't have particularly good body awareness. In JKD, we have what is called a 'Critical Distance Zone', which is basically an area in which your opponent can hit you. An adaquate JKD man could simply keep you at bay with something so simple as a sidekick to your knee.
If your fighting a Judo or Jiu Jutsu man, making a B line for them would simply give them another weapon. They will use the extra force of your thrusted body weight, and use it against you.
Your low stance is a good technique, assuming you know how to do it and not give away your intention. Your opponent may be able to see what you plan to do by such seemingly inconspicuous things as your footwork. Also, if you're in a public place, lets say a bar, for arguments sake, taking a stance may not be a good idea. If you want your attack to be as inconspicuous as possible, taking no-stance would be a better idea.

[Erny]

Seriously grap a bottle a fork a bat a chair or anything that is in front of u.Aim for weak points.ofc we r talking the case u r defending yourself and not your ego.

[Gen3sis74]

Stabbing people will usually reward you with some serious charges, whether it was self-defense or not, that is up to the court to decide. If your going to stab people, you better be ****ed sure they have a weapon and or intent to inflict some serious bodily damage. Laws do vary location to location, a disorderly conduct charge sure beats the hell out of an assault with a deadly weapon charge in the United States. Stabbing versus cutting someone may inflict serious internal wounds. When faced in a situation where your not looking to get your ass beat to hell, i suggest slicing or bashing your oppenent with a weapon, never stab them because there is a higher chance that you will puncture organs and or arteries. Regardless, when you bring a weapon into the equation and use it aggressively and the other guy is wielding nothing, you are the one who is going to serve a prison sentence.

[Zaharia]

Exactly. I've known martial artists who've gone to prison for defending themselves with a weapon, even though their opponent was the aggressor, and had a weapon. In the eyes of the courts, you are trained to be able to handle such a situation amicably, not tear your opponent apart.

[Trey]

That's all good and well, assuming that your opponent doesn't have particularly good body awareness. In JKD, we have what is called a 'Critical Distance Zone', which is basically an area in which your opponent can hit you. An adaquate JKD man could simply keep you at bay with something so simple as a sidekick to your knee.
If your fighting a Judo or Jiu Jutsu man, making a B line for them would simply give them another weapon. They will use the extra force of your thrusted body weight, and use it against you.
Your low stance is a good technique, assuming you know how to do it and not give away your intention. Your opponent may be able to see what you plan to do by such seemingly inconspicuous things as your footwork. Also, if you're in a public place, lets say a bar, for arguments sake, taking a stance may not be a good idea. If you want your attack to be as inconspicuous as possible, taking no-stance would be a better idea.

Well I guess youd just have to see how I fight then to understand. There would be no added force by me charging in, as it is a contolled movement, not unweildy and wild in nature. The way my stance is, again youd have to see it, it would prevent a side kick or any other kick for that matter to my knee. Lastly it doesnt matter if he knows what to do or if he wants to strike me, im not particularly worried about taking a shot or two in order to knock him out, if I were to attck this tall fictional character it would be a continuos onslaught, not a well here I go, im gonna tap you lightly now. Also im not worried about being inconspicuous, if im going to attack someone in defense, im going to let them know that I have every intention of bringing them down.

[Zaharia]

Firstly, such a large movement would tell your opponent straight away that you are goingt to attack them. If you are fighting an experienced opponent, he may not nescessarily keep you at bay, but allow you to charge, only to strike you down when you do, as he has read your intention.
Also, you say that you don't care if you take a shot or two, but what if that shot or two comes from someone who's got a very good shot, i.e. a boxer. The fact that you are charging towards them would only make the effect of their strike greater, as you are moving towards it. And, an experienced martial artist would/should be able to throw a punch with the same degree of power, speed and accuracy as when his/her opponent is stationary.

[Trey]

Well considering the fact that I am an ex-boxer, who has been trained by a well renouned trainer (Giachetti; trained tyson, holmes, and 6 other world champs), then I would have to say that ive been hit by some pretty d a m n good boxers ( I sparred with almost only proffesionals). I came into martial arts simply due to the fact that its better, and more all encompasing ( in my opinion).
Like I said, I dont care if he knows my intention, I want him to, it makes no difference whether or not he knows what im doing.
You are almost right in saying that an experienced martial artist should be able to hi with the same degree of power speed and accuracy when stationary as when moving. Except two things, one is that experience does not always prevail. Yes most of the time it does, but there are exceptions. Two is that when the principles of Baji Quan are applied, an individual can get much more out of a punch (specifically the one punch).

[Zaharia]

Like I said, I dont care if he knows my intention, I want him to, it makes no difference whether or not he knows what im doing.

If you are fighting a SKILLED fighter, the fact that he has read your intention will give him a major advantage, and you a major disadvantage. If that's what works for you, then so be it. All I'm saying is that if you were to go up against a talented JKD'er and try that, he'd just knock you on your ass.
Also, when I said strikes, I didn't only mean a punch. It can be any strike, even, especially in JKD, an eye poke, or a tigers claw. It doesn't matter how tough you are, if you get caught with one of those, you'll be rolling around like a bowled over skittle.

[Trey]

Thats true... no one can train to resist an eye poke lol. But thats just another advantage to the way my stance is, it does make it slightly harder to pull off an eye poke. A tiger claw would be slightly easier, if he could get to my ear or neck (since my face is mostly covered) before I get in a shot in.

Also it was never clarified what kind of individual this imaginary man is, i was assuming just some tall crazy guy you run into on the street. Regardless, I believe the technique that i stated would work 99% of the time, as long as the individual was in peak condition, and trained to fight out of it. I was just saying how I would do it, not reccomending it.

[Sifu Darkfist]

Well I guess youd just have to see how I fight then to understand. There would be no added force by me charging in, as it is a contolled movement, not unweildy and wild in nature. The way my stance is, again youd have to see it, it would prevent a side kick or any other kick for that matter to my knee. Lastly it doesnt matter if he knows what to do or if he wants to strike me, im not particularly worried about taking a shot or two in order to knock him out, if I were to attck this tall fictional character it would be a continuos onslaught, not a well here I go, im gonna tap you lightly now. Also im not worried about being inconspicuous, if im going to attack someone in defense, im going to let them know that I have every intention of bringing them down.

herein lies the concept of the relentless attack encompassed by the phrase "something that is given and thrust upon the target not negotiated or defended into existance"
THis style of fighting is the one feared worldwide without exception.
Consider the beszerkers in nordic folklore, these men entirely naked ran into combat to kill without any fear or thought about the possible outcome or what may become of them.
Doe this mean they were unruly?
Not at all, they were skilled killers with the heart of killers and nothing in mind but killing no other outcome occurs to them except victory through the destruction of their enemies at all physical cost.
that is the Mike Tyson, Ali or Li Shu Wen of Baji.

[bcbernam777]

Have you considered platforms






seriously dont look at their size, forget about their size and dont be so obsessed about their face, I have no idea why people have a fascination with the face, they think it is the best place to hit, it is the last thing on my list, Lets see, you have the throat (brochial stun), you have the heart, you have the diaphragm, you have the testicles, you have the kidneys, all much more effective than a head shot.

[Zaharia]

True.... but it all depends on what kind of damage you want to do to your opponent. Certainly, the most humane way to disable ones opponent is to hit him in the face to achieve a knockout. This is a flawed technique, however, as it depends on the toughness of your opponent. If you were to try that on a skilled boxer, he'd 'take it on the chin' and ensue in demolishing you (assuming that you can not hit as hard as other boxers, of course). That is why you must READ YOUR OPPONENT'S INTENTION before attacking.

[SevenStar]

seriously dont look at their size, forget about their size and dont be so obsessed about their face, I have no idea why people have a fascination with the face, they think it is the best place to hit, it is the last thing on my list, Lets see, you have the throat (brochial stun), you have the heart, you have the diaphragm, you have the testicles, you have the kidneys, all much more effective than a head shot.

here's a litmus test. Go find a boxer. tell him you want to fight him and have those targets available. Then see how easy it is to hit his throat. the throat is a moving target, like the head - and it is much smaller. This makes it harder to hit. I've had a match with someone under such a rule - and they never touched my throat. small, moving and defended targets aren't easy targets. As for the heart, do you realize how hard you would have to hit a person to hurt them seriously?? you'd be better off hitting them in the jaw. the diaphragm is easier, but you can train to absorb body shots well enough. You're still gonna have to hit him mad hard to drop him there. I've been hit in the nads while in a confrontation. Guess what - I didn't feel it at all until after the confrontation had ended. hitting there is not an end all.

However, I do agree with you on one thing - there is a fascination with the face. This comes from the notion (albeit a true one) that you can KO someone by hitting them in the jaw. a good liver punch can do the same thing, but if you are off the mark, it will merely hurt. a good head rattling will drop a person easier.

[SevenStar]

True.... but it all depends on what kind of damage you want to do to your opponent. Certainly, the most humane way to disable ones opponent is to hit him in the face to achieve a knockout. This is a flawed technique, however, as it depends on the toughness of your opponent. If you were to try that on a skilled boxer, he'd 'take it on the chin' and ensue in demolishing you (assuming that you can not hit as hard as other boxers, of course). That is why you must READ YOUR OPPONENT'S INTENTION before attacking.


meh. that's more an issue of neck strength than skill. There are several sucky guys who have a decent chin.

[SevenStar]

If you are fighting a SKILLED fighter, the fact that he has read your intention will give him a major advantage, and you a major disadvantage. If that's what works for you, then so be it. All I'm saying is that if you were to go up against a talented JKD'er and try that, he'd just knock you on your ass.
Also, when I said strikes, I didn't only mean a punch. It can be any strike, even, especially in JKD, an eye poke, or a tigers claw. It doesn't matter how tough you are, if you get caught with one of those, you'll be rolling around like a bowled over skittle.

eyes go into the same category as throat. not only that, but this thread is about fighting a taller guy - that means it will be that much harder to hit his eyes.

[SevenStar]

That's all good and well, assuming that your opponent doesn't have particularly good body awareness. In JKD, we have what is called a 'Critical Distance Zone', which is basically an area in which your opponent can hit you. An adaquate JKD man could simply keep you at bay with something so simple as a sidekick to your knee.
If your fighting a Judo or Jiu Jutsu man, making a B line for them would simply give them another weapon. They will use the extra force of your thrusted body weight, and use it against you.
Your low stance is a good technique, assuming you know how to do it and not give away your intention. Your opponent may be able to see what you plan to do by such seemingly inconspicuous things as your footwork. Also, if you're in a public place, lets say a bar, for arguments sake, taking a stance may not be a good idea. If you want your attack to be as inconspicuous as possible, taking no-stance would be a better idea.

how hard is it for a trained person to stop or evade a side kick to the knee? Anyway, you are missing his point. As I stated earlier in this thread, the taller person has an advantage at the outside - he likely has longer limbs. this means that HIS sidekick will be keeping YOU at bay, unless you can get inside of him, as the inside is the only way you will be able to hit him.

[SevenStar]

Going down to the ground is fine - assuming that you are in a safe environment i.e. there is no glass, or any other hazardous material on the ground, and that you are only facing one opponent. Needless to say, if you go to the grount when your opponent is part of a gang, the chances are you're going to be massacred. Like I said earlier - go for the balls. Or, you can go for the legs, in particular the outer thigh, as this will give your opponent a 'dead leg', thereby debilitating him, and subsequently finishing the opponent off with a vast aray of 'weapons'.

It may seem like I'm picking on you, but I'm not... I just don't like any of your posts ;)

"safe ground environment" is about as overused as the "all fights go to the ground" thing. I work in a bar and have gone to the ground several times. Only once have I been scraped, and it was minor. Also, only once have I been hit by another person while on the ground... that was the same day I got the scrape. Not to say those things can't happen - sure they can - but they don't happen as much as everyone thinks. especially in a crowded bar.

as stated earlier, don't depend on the balls.

as for the leg, I'd rather roundhouse them on the front of the quadricep, right above or on the knee, as opposed to the side of it. the dead leg you are referring to comes from kicking the sciatic nerve - for one, you may not hit it properly or with enough impact, and secondly, people have different pain tolerances. It may take several of those to make his leg go numb.

[SevenStar]

True. However, if one can get inside the opponent and make contact with the upper forearm, e.g. by blocking a punch, the effect of kicking the outer thigh will be devastating. This is taken from Chinese accupuncture - they believe that the meridians in the upper forearm are the element *metal*, and the meridians in the outer thigh are *wood*. Metal cuts wood, and therefore the effect is greater. Trust me, it works.

the punching hand is in motion. You would have to be blindingly fast to kick him while keeping contact with the arm. AND you'd still have to kick him with sifficient force. I'd love to see you pull it off though. really.


By the way, to roundhouse kick someone directly to the kidneys is practically suicide, as your opponent can easily grab your leg. This would be good for a progressive/follow up attack, though.


by the very nature of the kick - arcing - the sidekick is easier to catch than say a front or side kick.

[SimonM]

here's a litmus test. Go find a boxer. tell him you want to fight him and have those targets available. Then see how easy it is to hit his throat. the throat is a moving target, like the head - and it is much smaller. This makes it harder to hit.

Also keep in mind that most boxers keep their chin tucked just a bit, making the throat a sheltered target and even harder to hit.

[SimonM]

It may seem like I'm picking on you, but I'm not... I just don't like any of your posts ;)

"safe ground environment" is about as overused as the "all fights go to the ground" thing. I work in a bar and have gone to the ground several times.

One time I was doing some sparring on concrete... The epitome of the "unsafe ground environment". I was fighting a guy whose standing game was better than mine so I decided to try and take it to the ground. I managed an opening for a throw leading off of a jab he left hanging out for a microsecond too long and hucked him to the ground. You know what? Throwing this guy over my back (IE: Up 6 feet) and then smacking him with the concrete ground didn't even wind him. He literally kicked at my legs once and rolled back to his feet because I was too slow going down and trying for a mount. My point? The ground is not necessarily fatal in the street. Now still I'd not want to be on the ground facing multiple opponents.... but I never have been.

[SimonM]

the punching hand is in motion. You would have to be blindingly fast to kick him while keeping contact with the arm. AND you'd still have to kick him with sifficient force. I'd love to see you pull it off though. really.



I don't think I even bothered replying to that one because I disagree with the entire pressure point median premise. But good retort without denying the premise in question. :D

[kidswarrior]

Many good posts/ideas here. Will just add my two cents in case I can offer something--and so help--in a way not already covered (I read about 2/3 of posts before jumping to the end).

With a taller person, what I would look for first, and what I try to teach my students, is to try to guage what we're up against (often we can tell in his posture, foot stance, demeanor). Much depends on the opponent. What opening might he be giving/ what opportunity is he presenting: e.g., is he stationary/stiff (so easy to move around or draw a bead on); is he primarily a boxer, so very strong and fast from the waist up, but maybe unprepared for leg attacks; is he a kickboxer and therefore maybe very fast in striking with all four limbs, but used to rules/gloves (and so open to fingers to eyes, nose, throat, strikes to groin); is he a grappler, trying for a takedown (I use longer strikes to keep him at a distance; with a taller person who is also a confident grappler, may have to chip away a bit to wait for the right moment for a finishing blow--much like a boxing jab to set up a left hook or right cross). Anyway, this doesn't completely answer the question, but in my mind, and if one of my students were asking this, it's where I'd begin. Then we could pick two or three techniques that might be pretty effective.

Second consideration is me--or you--or the student I'm instructing. What kind of fighter are we at heart: a striker, a grappler, a good mix; what am I naturally good at (e.g., I personnally have good hand speed and long arms, so at 50+, can still out 'box' most teenagers--but I'm a terrible grappler and always will be); do I like to relentlessly attack, and take the punishment he might dish out, or am I a careful fighter, waiting him out for just the right opening; is age a consideration (the older we get, the faster it pays to end it since I'll become winded more quickly), etc.

Anyway, lots of good material to work with on previous responses. Just thought I'd add some of my own impressions.

Peace.

[Mr Punch]

With a taller person, what I would look for first, and what I try to teach my students, is to try to guage what we're up against (often we can tell in his posture, foot stance, demeanor). Much depends on the opponent. What opening might he be giving/ what opportunity is he presenting: e.g., is he stationary/stiff (so easy to move around or draw a bead on); is he primarily a boxer, so very strong and fast from the waist up, but maybe unprepared for leg attacks; is he a kickboxer and therefore maybe very fast in striking with all four limbs, but used to rules/gloves (and so open to fingers to eyes, nose, throat, strikes to groin); is he a grappler, trying for a takedown (I use longer strikes to keep him at a distance; with a taller person who is also a confident grappler, may have to chip away a bit to wait for the right moment for a finishing blow--much like a boxing jab to set up a left hook or right cross). Anyway, this doesn't completely answer the question, but in my mind, and if one of my students were asking this, it's where I'd begin.Welcome to the forum.

With respect, you've got a helluva lotta too much there! You're talking about a whole strategy for sussing out and weighing up your 'opponent' (I'm assuming the thread has moved on to the street, since this is the street forum):

1) If we're talking about the street; it isn't an 'opponent', it's a guy who may or may not have weapons, may or may not have friends, may or may not be on drugs and may or may not want to kill you.

2) You won't have time! I think I'm a pretty good judge of posture and things when I see someone walk across the room, but in the heat of the moment (and this isn't sparring or some kind of match where you sometimes get a couple of 'feeler' punches to see what they're made of) there is no chance.

All this assessment training will get your kids stabbed in a real fight.


Then we could pick two or three techniques that might be pretty effective.Bingo! Stick to that! KISS!

BTW, of course your idea of working with your students' strengths and weaknesses is good.

Small technical points:

is he a kickboxer and therefore maybe very fast in striking with all four limbs, but used to rules/gloves (and so open to fingers to eyes, nose, throat, strikes to groin)If he's some kind of kickboxer or not the chances are he'll have faster head movement and footwork than your chances of hitting him accurately in the eye with your fingers. The throat is also easy to cover AND usually covered by kickboxers etc, not to mention a small fast target. And the groin will not necessarily put someone out quick enough if at all.

[kidswarrior]

Welcome to the forum..

With respect, you've got a helluva lotta too much there!


OK, I can take that. I did go on and on. But it was a pretty sweeping question.



All this assessment training will get your kids stabbed in a real fight..


Actually, I 've lost 16 students in 16 years, and it's usually not using their heads/rushing that got them killed. (And ditto for three-five times that number who got injured but survived).


Bingo! Stick to that! KISS!

Well, the 'Stupid' part certainly fits :D I've got much to learn.


BTW, of course your idea of working with your students' strengths and weaknesses is good.

Yes, this is where my whole post was headed, but the preface is an important part of a martial arts student's training. No, it may not be simple--may take years to become proficient and quick--but still necessary, in my opinion.


Thanks for furthering my education, Ronin.

Peace.

[kidswarrior]

Guess what I'm really trying to say is, self-defense/protection and even combat is as much about awareness and smarts as technique. And I believe we can train that awareness and smarts to a degree. Or in the obverse, perfecting techinique without the mental training/mindset, while possibly OK for some, is not my way of practicing the arts.

Peace.

[Zaharia]

To be a proficient martial artist, one must learn to make quick judgements of ones opponent. What works on one is not nescessarily what will work on another