Questions about specific brands of jow.

[Wong Fei Hong]

Just wondering what everyone thought the best jow was, i thought i would ask having seen plumdragons post on another page and looking through the posts in search function the ones that get mentioned continuously are plumdragons jow and biggies jow is especially raved about !

If anyone has tried any of the following please tell me your comments.

Wing lams jow

james mcneils/little nine heaven jow

a series of jows by a company called oriental herb co, their series is quite confusing as they have jows for different levels of iron palm, but only one for iron fist one for iron forearms and i dont understand why this is so. Also one level is meant to condense chi into the bone and the other level into the muscle etc, i would think that a good jow would do it all. :confused: http://www.iisports.com/search.asp?brand=ORIENTAL%20HERB

This ebay seller has 25 different formulas of jow but doesnt state what the difference is, if you click on sellers store and jow you will see what else he sells.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Golden-Lotus-Iron-Palm-Fist-Dit-Da-Jow-Liniment_W0QQitemZ7126436669QQcategoryZ16044QQcmdZ ViewItem

Anything from this website
http://www.ditdajows.com/commerce.cgi
Their shaolin soap looks too good to be true :p and all their jows look the same


I have personally tried wing lams jow and i found that it is excellant to heal, but not much in terms of making the body tougher, it worked wonders on old injuries and to not ache the next day, but i didnt feel it making the hand more powerful.
I find it an all purpose jow and isnt exactly what i was looking for.

Also could you guys that used biggies jow describe why its so great ? I couldnt find where they sell it.

Plumdragon i visited your website and i saw why your jow rocks but could you describe the effects of using it is it more healing or more for toughening ?

[Dale Dugas]

Wing lams jow is watered down compared to anything you could make for yourself.

Mike Biggies jow rocks the world. You can contact him directly at Mantisbxr@aol.com He sells both Iron Palm as well as an excellent injury formula that is not watered down.

James Mcneil has decent lineage but his iron hand herbs, the one you soak in doesnt cost more than 6 bucks at the local herb shop. He sells it for 20 dollars or so plus shipping.

Email me off forum for more specifics.

Dale

[yu shan]

Wong

I use Mike Biggies bruise medicine with great results. He will send you the herbs choose the alcohol of choice and there ya go. I just set some up myself.

[EarthDragon]

Wong fei hung. PM me and I will make arrangments to give you our 350 year old recipe.for bone.
It is the strongest jow available to any I have seen however you must supply the herbs but they cost less than 12.00.

Dont just buy already made stuff. You have to keep buying it....

teach a man to fish....................you know the rest

[GeneChing]

...I've developed a severe allergy to dit da jow. It was due to an overdose of a homebrew liniment in China. So do be careful becuase I so miss my dit da jow sorely, especially now as winter approaches.

We've had a dit dat jow review thread on the TCM forum (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37680) for a while now. Check it out.

And don't forget our dit da jow (http://www.martialartsmart.net/45100.html)! I'm told it's good, but like I said, I'm allergic and we picked up this line after I developed my allergy.

[PlumDragon]

Plumdragon could you describe the effects of using it is it more healing or more for toughening?
When you say toughening I assume you mean conditioning/strengthening of bone/muscle, etc? The bruise liniment is primarily for healing but its been used with good success for limb knocking conditioning where "toughening" is one of the goals. The warmer liniment has a larger focus on working to "toughen" and strengthen (especially with bone) than bruise liniment and is what should be used for more demanding conditioning exercises. I have some customers who like to keep 1/2 gallon of both types on hand and others that swear by a single recipe.

I think youll find that most sellers (with some exceptions) have sound recipes that work well and do their job. The difference in quality, IMO, usually is a result of how it is made/stored/bottled.

Email address is therin@knology.net if you have further questions. ;)

Josh

[Wong Fei Hong]

Wow thank you for all the replys, ive pm a few people emailed others.

Gene sorry to hear about your allergy i read about it on the other thread and was wondering if you could do anything to fix it, im surprised a good acupuncturist or herbalist hasnt found why your body has reacted like this permanently and given you something for it. Logically it would be a single ingredient not the whole mixture that gives you a reaction .

[Wong Fei Hong]

On a more detailed note i was wondering if some of you who have knowledge in tcm could explain to me why all these are different, Below is a list of ingredients with what the jow states it does.
To me the way i understand it is heal the damage, increase the chi to the body part condense it in, and make the body part's bones and muscles tougher, so what is the difference between all these offered by one company ? Is it just a gimmick?


'Arms of Steel'
For forearm toughening
Ingredients: Alcohol, Purified Water, Salt, Perilla Frutescens, Carthamus, Angelica Sinensis,Cinnamomum Cassia, Bombax Ceiba, Piper Nigrum, Hibiscus Syriacus, Prunus Persica, Metha Haplocalyx, Pyritum, Sangius Dragonis, Lignum Sappan, Ephedra, Coptis, Frankincense, Myrrh, Achyranthes, Eupatorium.

Iron Palm
This Iron Palm formula brings chi energy up to the hands to strengthen the skin, flesh, and bones.
Ingredients: Alcohol, Water, Myrrh, Frankincense, Carthamus, Coptis, Saussurea.

Immortal Monk
Regular training will cause chi energy to be pushed and condensed inside the muscles and connective tissues that lie along the bones
Ingredients:Vinegar, Water, Salt, Pinellia, Arisaema, Stemona, Zanthoxylum, Euphoria Longan, Os Draconis, Gentiana Scabra, Aster Tataricus, Veratrum Nigrum, Aconitum, Lycium Chinesne, Sulphur, Cinnamomum Camphora, Aconite Carmichaeli, Periostracum Serpentis.

Iron Fist
Ingredients: Alcohol, Water, Curcuma Longa, Curcuma Zedoaria Angelica Sinensis, Chaenomeles, Clematis, Cynanchum, Pyritum, Ligustrum, Lucidum, Morus Alba, Frankincense, Myrrh, Dipsacus, Lycium Chinense, Melia, Aster Tataricus, Perilla Bark, ****lomena, Sparganium, Cynanchum, Oldenlandia, Pseudoginseng, Bupleurum, Resina Pini.

Jade Goddess
is a cold liniment causes the chi to condense in the bone marrow
Ingredients:Rice Alcohol, Rhizoma Rhei, Boehmeria Siamensis, Sanguisorba, Tuber Asparagi, Morus Alba, Rhaponticum Uniflorum, Bulbus Shancigu, Phellodenron Amurense, Phragmites Communis, Anemarrhena, Sophora Subprostrata, Lithospermi, Semen Abutiloni.

Eagle Talon
will increase the concentration of chi condensed in the marrow of the hands,
Ingredients: Alcohol, Water, Myrrh, Frankincense, Carthamus, Sanguis Draconis, Saussurea, Paeoniae Rubra, Lignum Aquilariae, Ligusticum Wallichii, Platycodon, os Tigris, Gardenia Jasminoides, Paeonia Suffruticosa, Schizonepeta Tenuifolia, Angelica Sinensis, Poncirus Trifoliata.

[IronFist]

I had better luck with Arnica gel than with WLE's jow as far as bruise removal is concerned.

Gene, an allergy? So you can't use any now, or is it just a particular ingredient to which you're allergic?

[EarthDragon]

Wong fei hung, to answer your question about the gimick? it is just that.....
a gimick. it is a sales ploy to convince you to purchase all the formula's they offer and thier are major ingrediants missing.

Again you want the recipe! why buy a small bottle of milk when you can buy the whole cow?

[GeneChing]

After I became allergic, I did experiment a little, but with no success. It's either one of the main ingrediants or a combination of main ingrediants. I'm allergic to a lot of Chinese meds now, mostly because I over-used them too much in my youth. I can still use stuff like Tiger Balm or White Flower Oil, but no dit da jow or similar things. It's a really nasty rash and it lasts for a while, so it's just not worth it for me to experiment anymore. And like some many attachments, once you give it up, you don't miss it. I use an aruyuvedic bruise and strain med now. It's not nearly as effective as dit da jow, but it works well enough for me if I'm jonesin' for a jow fix...

[phantom]

Mr. ching, I am curious as to how much jow is using too much? I always thought you are supposed to be liberal in your use of jow when doing conditioning or treating an injury? Thanks in advance.

[Blacktiger]

Hi Guys,

Old thread - can anyone here give me the low down on this business selling jows and liniments in the USA.
Good, bad otherwise?

https://orientalherb.com/martial-arts-training/

Just trying to get an idea of the quality and if any members have used the formulas.
And if so good or bad results.

Cheers,

BT

[Mor Sao]

Many of their formulas use Rubbing Alcohol.

You NEVER want to use Rubbing Alcohol/Isopropyl Alcohol as it breaks down into acetone in the liver.

FYI I use to work for Shaolin Brand but no longer do.

Let me know how I can be of service.

[Blacktiger]

OK thanks for the info...

Correct me if I am wrong here but liniments such as these have always fallen into 2 categories: Oil based and Alcohol based.

Is there gear effective or not?

Have not heard of the issue of "Rubbing Alcohol/Isopropyl Alcohol as it breaks down into acetone in the liver" before???

[Mor Sao]

OK thanks for the info...

Correct me if I am wrong here but liniments such as these have always fallen into 2 categories: Oil based and Alcohol based.

Is there gear effective or not?

Have not heard of the issue of "Rubbing Alcohol/Isopropyl Alcohol as it breaks down into acetone in the liver" before???

Not only using isopropyl as a liniment but smelling the fumes can cause acetone production. Not good. Anything with rubbing alcohol is NOT to be used and usually means people are using rubbing alcohol to get around ethanol laws in their state.

Blue Poppy also uses isopropyl as their solvent in their liniments. Do not use them.

They will cause you harm over time.

[Mor Sao]

Traditional Buddhist liniments were made with Black Vinegar.

Buddhists would not use wine.

[Blacktiger]

OK thanks very much for the info...

You would have to be using ALOT of liniment to get these negative health issues though no???

There are more ingredients than just the rubbing alcohol in a formula - its not straight rubbing alcohol undiluted...
It would be a percentage as the carrier/base for the formula 14% - 20% for example...

[Blacktiger]

Just a follow up on this for people looking at liniments/jows for training from Oriental Herb.Com

I ordered some out of curiosity to check the quality.

In a nutshell forget it - these formulas are watered WAY down. You would get more benefit from something straight off the shelf like Zheng Gui Shui by a mile. Not even close to the mark these formulas need to be at.

Save your cash and look elsewhere :)