wah lum testing/ranking

[Corwyn]

well, I just got through reading all 9 pages of "why I left Wah Lum"
and I'm somewhat confused.

I really don't care of believe in the qi kung stuff (for any one who believes they have control of this supernatural power, head over to http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/forumindex.php and claim your $1million prize.


What I am concerned with is several comments made about how forms are stretched and broken into smaller and smaller pieces all for making money.

As a total newbie my son at http://www.wahlumkungfuacademy.com/
is willing to make the 5-10 year commitment to stay and I am willing to make the financial commitment to let him, BUT NOT if it should take 4 and it's being stretched for no other reason then to line the pockets of the school.


What is the "ranking" system and what klind fo time frame should it involve?

C

[Donkwoon]

I hope that some of what I say can help you.

Firstly, try to let go of preconceptions that you may have about chi kung. Certainly don't look to Western science for proof. Even if they could rig up some sort of machine to a person and then say "there, we have found evidence of the life energy" would that really have an effect on your life? Would it make you more healthy? I would think not. If you want to know more about chi kung then make a good faith effort to practice it yourself.

As far as what school to send your kid to is concerned I think that location is the most important thing. To me this is a no brainer; you need to get him there on a reguler basis without it being a problem. That not withstanding, I think that the most important thing is the charactor of the instructor him/herself. Watch to see how his children behave (in and out of class). This can tell you alot.

Why do you care if the forms have been altered or not? As long as your kid is learning good Kung Fu that's the only thing that matters. If he is a Wha Lum sifu, then he most likely knows what he's doing.

Rank? Who cares. I know of 5th degree black belt that got suckered punched and then fell down a flight of stairs because he was so drunk. But I also know that this man has some good qualities as well and has helped hundreds of people learn to defend themselves. The point is that it's the man that makes the martial art, not the rank.

5 years. 10 years. 25 years. I wouldn't even think about it. Take one day at a time. Personal growth, family, relationships and of course learning how to defend yourself are the things that Kung Fu training should address. It is difficult to put a time limit on stuff like that so why bother.

Good luck. D

[gwa sow]

i have seen in a few cases that some things need to be stretched out. a lot of people now do not want to spend the time on the "boring" basic stuff and do not understand that this is the most important to learn. so i can see strecthing out some things to kind of force people to learn certain things better. many times people fly through the primary levels and lose many of the basic techniques and strengths that are supposed to be learned in the beginning. back in the old days they would do stance training for hours at a time for months or years. this would seperate the dedicated from the ones who thought that it would be "neat" to try kung fu. unfortunately haveing a kung fu school as a business this cannot really be done. also, as far as i know the ranking system was something that started here in the US. once it caught on in some schools it kinda forced other schools to have a similar system. people see a black belt and it can go to their head sometimes. it is a good way to seperate a class so students can better learn or train with students in their own level but i really dont like the level testing thing. i think testing should be done when a form is finished before moving on, but thats just me. anyways, best thing to do is just check ouot the school and compare it to others in your area. better to have a good teacher than just pick any "stlye" that you think you might like.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

No legitimate school, or teacher, can give you a set amount of time to reach a certain level. The ones that do, IMO, are just selling you a belt/rank.

Everyone progresses at their own rate and there are a number of factors to consider. How much effort a student puts in (including time outside of regular class time) could change things significantly.

With that said I can tell you that the typical new Wah Lum Sifu has 10+ years of training before they take the Sifu test. This year there were quite a few new Sifus added to the system but the head instructor at the school you linked to has been around quite a bit longer than that.

There is a standard curriculum put out by the Grandmaster at the headquarters school and all the branch schools follow it with minor variation. Master Chan does allow some flexability on what and how each Sifu teaches but the overall pattern is the same.

Please check the white student handbook for the requirements for each level. There is so much material in the Wah Lum system there is really no need to stretch things out.

Also, if you were to look at the pace of training nowadays compared to the old days in China you will see that it's extremely sped up. Nobody in this country in these times is willing to go through the old style training so you end up moving through the material faster.

Depending on his dedication he could be taking the Sifu test in 10 years, which is minimum 8th level and up.

You might want to make a comparison with the local Karate schools, some of which have little or no weapons and as little as 10 or 12 forms. You should also consider what you and your son want to get out of it. Does he want to be a full contact fighter, open a school, be a bodyguard, stay fit and healthy? If he wants to fight in the UFC you might want to look elsewhere.

[Corwyn]

Thanks for all your feedback.
Do to our location and the issue of getting him there on a regular basis, the number of options are limited.

Luckily Sifu McGuire is about 8 minutes from our house so this problem s solved.
Again most of the stuff I read was more related to politics and at this point I don't think that's a concern. I also know about the ranking system being an americanization and I guess my son is different in that he isn't seeking instant gratification. He (we, I am also thinking about starting so it's something we could do together) doesn't mind spending a year(s) learning stances
IF it is because it is a legitimate part of learning the art. Based on his request, we started looking for a traditional style. I do mind if it's being done to rip me off! It doesn't sound like the case with this teacher. But I was just looking to see if there was some sort of structure and there HAS to be some general idea of time to achieve a certain level of knowledge by the average student attending an average of say 2 classes a week. Someone asked why he is doing this and I honestly can't answer that question with eloquence.
He is most decidedly NOT interested in combat or full contact fighting. He loves the challenge and discipline of forms and weapons and this is what drew him away from Kempo after his Black belt to Kung Fu.

[phoenixdog]

You don't mention your son's age? Your son will probably quit the wah lum sifu long before the wah lum sifu quit's the son. Either way he will definately be exposed to tradition and gain leg strength so your money is well spent. Forget about rank unless you're in the army.

[yu shan]

Thanks for sharing this interest for your son, I appreciate this thread.

I have met Shifu McGuire, he seems to be of good nature and his kung fu is good. And you cant beat 8 minutes from the house! And it is very cool of you to want to do this with him.

The ranking system is very good! It really makes alot of sense and I do not think of this system as American-ized. Master Chan has put together a challenging way of learning, your son will benefit greatly.

Pay attention to Hua Lin Loashi`s post, he sums it all up. Wah Lum has this kind of closeness associated with it, he will probably make some great friends. Training the difficult hand and weapons forms will make him a better person. You are making the right decision, train and have a good time.

[MantisWarrior]

i study under wah lum in florida, been studying for about 5 months. trust me it's a lot better to get the basic down completely first since almost all the stuff u learn afterward will be base on those moves just a bit more advance and complicated. for example the 8 basic punches will, needless to say, comes up over and over again. also when u get the basic down it will be so easy to learn the other stuff

[yu shan]

The way the WL structure is laid out one will surely learn the basics, it is right there in the handbook. Another distinctive quality is WL`s student handbook. Your son will turn to this book over and over. I think it is nicely arranged. One of our projects in Pong Lai is to put together a handbook like this.

[woliveri]

My "opinion"

The place where I've seen forms broken up into parts are seminar forms at the temple. This was a long while ago so I don't know what's going on these days. I would stay with the core to the completion of 8th level. That's a lot of material and should your son still be interested after that then you can re-assess the situation then. After that see where your son wants to go.

If it were me going to WL now, that's what I would do. Stay with the core, work on basics, and re-evaluate at the completion of 8th level.

Also, did I mention, work on basics. Basics, Basics, Basics.

In fact, I would suggest a year of basics before learning forms, but that's me.

Basics poor = poor kung fu

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Sounds about right woli.

[Shaolin Dude]

the new handbooks are alot nicer. alot of stuff is updated

[Chop Socki]

Corwyn -

You've had a few weeks to experience the school now, has it worked out for you and your son?

When looking at a new school, I've found it helpful to check out the students as well as the instructors in order to truly help you guage the environment. Are there many senior students? That means that others like the experience enough to stick with it. Are there many junior students? That's generally a sign of a healthy, growing school. Is it a sharing atmosphere? That means the sifu has successfully instilled the proper learning philosophy among his students. Some schools are generally 'cool' towards new students until they've been around a while, being hesitant to invest a lot of time getting close to people on a 'trial basis', but you should be able to learn a lot from the interactions of others there.

Share!

- CS

[Corwyn]

Well so far we're very happy. I guess that we're still going through the first impression stages, but we're happy enough that we've commited to the next year.


It is a very friendly environment and everyone involved in our class has come up and introduced themselves and offered to help before and after class with anything.

The school seems to be a core of more older people and I guess that we're the
first new students in months. I am guesing at this as the people in our class have all seemed to have tested for 10b/a already. I don't know if this is just because of the time of the year or what.


C

[Chop Socki]

I'm glad it's been such a good experience for both of you, and I hope it turns out well.

Your observations may be exactly right. Obviously you want a school that's 'healthy' and growing, but I've yet to determine a really reliable pattern in any program I've been involved with that works for predicting when the big growth times are.

For younger kids, I've seen increased sign-up rates during winter months when martial arts is being used as an alternative to town sports like soccer or baseball. When Spring comes along, some stick around, others leave. I've also seen people show up in groups - either 2 or 3 friends will decide to try out some sort of 'intro program' or 'free week' together, or one person will try it for a few weeks and, once they decide that they'll stick around, they'll tell a few friends about it.

I guess the neighborhood is a big factor, and of course, not all martial arts teachers have boundless pockets for advertising dollars. ;)

Thanks for the update, and best of luck with your training!

- CS