WL Little Mantis

[mooyingmantis]

I have recently had the opportunity to start studying the "Little Mantis" form of Wah Lum. I was wondering if anyone could provide some information concerning the origin of this set? Any apps would be nice too.
My instructor is in the next state, so we are not able to get together regularly. When I was there he taught me the movements for the entire set, but I am interested in digging much deeper. Plus perfecting the form that he taught me. It is a sweet little set.
Thanks in advance!
Mooyingmantis

[yu shan]

Take a trip back to see the guy who taught you. He knows more about WL than any other teacher in the style. He is about as thorough as they come.

[spiralstair]

Hi mooyingmantis

You could do some research on this name:
Tie men suan. Iron Door Bolt
An old set that is related to WL Little Mantis.

A lot of apps. for that set involve moving your stance 'into and through' your opponent's stance. Work your apps. in that way and the hands will fall into place.

When working your apps. hit hard or you won't catch the 'truth' of the movement. Most people work their apps. too gently, and conclude "that won't work", when really they just need to bring more commitment to the app. A partner willing to "feel your pain" helps :)

Good luck, it is truly a fantastic set of Chinese Kung Fu.

[mooyingmantis]

Yu Shan,
Yes, I agree, he is an excellent and knowledgeable instructor. It is just nice to hear what other instructors, or past instructors, of the same style have to say. Each has a different perspective I am sure.

Spiralstair,
Thanks for the advice and information!

Mooyingmantis

[18elders]

there was an old article by chan wan ching in a hong kong magazine on little mantis

[mantid1]

Do you have a copy?

[Donkwoon]

I love that set and it does have a ton of apps. I don't know the name of that first kick at the begining of the first run (the right kick behind the left leg) but that's a very powerfull kick at close range if the timing is right.

[18elders]

I myself don't have a copy but i know someone who does, i will see what i can do next time i see him.

[mantid1]

Thanks

I would appreciate that.

[mooyingmantis]

I love that set and it does have a ton of apps. I don't know the name of that first kick at the begining of the first run (the right kick behind the left leg) but that's a very powerfull kick at close range if the timing is right.

Yes, that is a sweet technique. I do not know the Wah Lum name for the kick, but WHF called this bei tui (Mandarin), which means, "At the Back Kick". Not very poetic, but accurate in description. :rolleyes:
Mooying

[mooyingmantis]

Many years ago I remember seeing a book that Chan Pui wrote a on a Wah Lum fist set. Was the fist set Little Mantis, or another Wah Lum set?
Thanks in advance!
Mooying

[woliveri]

mooyingmantis,

As far as I know MC wrote three books.

Toranado Broadswords
WL First (fist) Form
Right Hand Stick/Fatal Flute combo.

Could be others so what you're referring to is probably the WL First Form book.

[mooyingmantis]

Woliveri,
I am referring to the Wah Lum First Fist Form book. What is the name of the set featured in the book? Or is it just called "First Form"? I haven't seen the book in probably ten years, so I can't remember anything about the form. I had wondered if the book featured the Little Mantis set. If so, I was going to buy it for a visual reference.
Thanks for your original information!
Richard

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Some of the Wah Lum forms are numbered so the book shows Wah Lum First Form, that's the name of the set.

If you want to see Little Mantis check out the Living Legends vol 1 tape.

I also had a look at the reference in the Movies thread on the main forum and it's a variation of Wah Lum Right Hand Stick although it's called Fatal Flute Staff. Could be someone got confused when learning it from the book.

[mooyingmantis]

Hua Lin Laoshi,
Thank you for your response! I am finding Wah Lum very interesting. Especially in contrast to the Qi Xing Tang Lang that I am learning.
Respectfully,
Mooying

[yu shan]

Mooying, do you have the Living Legends video? If not get it. The person who taught you LM can get it. It is cool to see and hear Master Chan`s energy and to see how he performs the set.

You care to share your view on the differances between Qi Xing and what you have seen of Wah Lum? I know for a fact the man that demonstrated WL for you was straight up good. He knows his forms inside and out. Just not sure how much you got to see.

I did Bengbu at the MQ gathering in Ohio. We have this kick behind (bei tui?) in our BB. Hu Xilin was very curious to see this in use and took me to the side and had me show him how I use.

[mooyingmantis]

Mooying, do you have the Living Legends video? If not get it. The person who taught you LM can get it. It is cool to see and hear Master Chan`s energy and to see how he performs the set.

You care to share your view on the differances between Qi Xing and what you have seen of Wah Lum? I know for a fact the man that demonstrated WL for you was straight up good. He knows his forms inside and out. Just not sure how much you got to see.

I did Bengbu at the MQ gathering in Ohio. We have this kick behind (bei tui?) in our BB. Hu Xilin was very curious to see this in use and took me to the side and had me show him how I use.

Yu Shan,
I have seen Master Chan's performance of Little Mantis on that video. He is awesome. I watch it daily to gauge my own performance.

Dave has demonstrated several of the WL sets (fist and weapons) for me. I was amazed how many sets he was able to keep fresh in his mind. He must not have had as many kicks to the head as I have had in my MA career. :D He is certainly a shining star in his system.

As far as the differences I observed between Wah Lum and the other branches of Praying Mantis I have practiced or seen, WL seems very Bei Shaolin oriented. IMO, It plays more like Gung Lik Kuen than Qi Xing, TCPM, or Bimen. It is very fluid and quick, but without the many circles I have observed in TCPM. It seems like a very rich system, with some unique weapons (flute, hidden dagger flute, horsehair whip). The precise stance work reminded me of a good Hung Gar/Choy Li Fut player. I was very impressed! I would really like to see Big Mantis now, to see how it compares to the Qi Xing and TCPM versions of Beng Bu.

Regards,
Mooying

[Shaolin Dude]

what is this wah lum flute/dagger form?

[yu shan]

It was actually flute/gim, but it looked more like a long dagger to me. The weapon itself was impressive, gim hidden inside of a really sweet looking flute. It was a seminar form taught back in the early 90`s at a Shifu re-test and sort of kung fu retreat. Master Chan had only a few made so they are rare. I`m giving mine to my kf brothers son. The form is so so, nothing to get excited about... compared to the WL weapon sets.

[mooyingmantis]

It was actually flute/gim, but it looked more like a long dagger to me. The weapon itself was impressive, gim hidden inside of a really sweet looking flute. It was a seminar form taught back in the early 90`s at a Shifu re-test and sort of kung fu retreat. Master Chan had only a few made so they are rare. I`m giving mine to my kf brothers son. The form is so so, nothing to get excited about... compared to the WL weapon sets.

Yeah, it just looked like a 6-8" dagger blade hidden in a flute about 18" long. The form looked like a short stick set until the dagger was pulled out of the flute for a few moves at the end of the form.

BTW, I like Shifu Chan's philosophy of continually retesting those whom he allows to teach the system. I think that it is a smart quality control measure.

Mooying

[Chop Socki]

There's no such thing as 'too much concern' over the quality of a system that carries your name, let alone one you've dedicated your life to teaching. If tradition is important, the best way to carry it forward is by maintaining a strong link to the past, and validating every new instructor while insuring the retention of your existing instructors is a great way to do this.

I've seen that video (though an early version before it was split into pieces and 'productized'), and as entertaining (and impressive!) as the material presented is, I've learned a lot about the philosophy of the masters who appear on it by watching their interactions with the students who assisted them during their demostration of the applications.

- CS

[mooyingmantis]

I've seen that video (though an early version before it was split into pieces and 'productized'), and as entertaining (and impressive!) as the material presented is, I've learned a lot about the philosophy of the masters who appear on it by watching their interactions with the students who assisted them during their demostration of the applications.

- CS

Can you expound on that statement? What did you learn about them?
Thanks,
Mooying

[spiralstair]

Dear CS,
Please, let's not go there...
It is, after all, the season of Peace and Love...

Spiralstair

[Chop Socki]

Spiralstair -

Apologies if my comment came off as inflammatory. That wasn't my intent, though reading back, I can see how it may have been interpreted that way. In truth, I never intended for 'different' to be seen as 'good' or 'bad', only... different.

In this season, as in all others, all paths should lead to peace, so I'll accommodate your wisdom and leave it where it lies.


- CS

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

It was actually flute/gim, but it looked more like a long dagger to me. The weapon itself was impressive, gim hidden inside of a really sweet looking flute.

Just think of the trouble we would have been in if we got pulled over with that on the way home. I didn't have my concealed permit back then. :(

That's why it was a one shot deal. It was fun but would be nicer with more blade moves.

You were there mooyingmantis?

[mooyingmantis]

Just think of the trouble we would have been in if we got pulled over with that on the way home. I didn't have my concealed permit back then. :(

That's why it was a one shot deal. It was fun but would be nicer with more blade moves.

You were there mooyingmantis?

Hua Lin Laoshi,
A concealed carry permit only covers firearms (I am a concealed carry instructor in Ohio). So, it wouldn't have done you any good.
Yes, the form definitely needs some more blade wqrk in it.
No, I wasn't there. A friend demonstrated it for me.

Mooyingmantis

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

That might be true in Ohio but here in Florida I can carry all types of weapons concealed. Firearms, stun guns, knives, blackjacks, cane swords, flute gim, whatever.
:p

[mooyingmantis]

That might be true in Ohio but here in Florida I can carry all types of weapons concealed. Firearms, stun guns, knives, blackjacks, cane swords, flute gim, whatever.
:p

Wow! That is a very lenient law. I checked out your state's legal code and you are 100% correct. I wish our laws were that open ended.

Mooyingmantis