The Lohan Form in Draeger's Book

[Jarhead101]

I recently viewed this book by Draeger called "Shaolin Lohan Kung Fu" at Border's, and I was wondering if the form is taught here in the states under any specific lineage?

[taichi4eva]

This form is part of Shaolin Hood Khar Pai taught by P'ng Chye Khim. There are teachers who claim to be part of the lineage that teach in Europe- Switzerland and France...I know that for sure at the moment- as well as in Singapore and Australia.

It's an interesting form. Looks like Southern Shaolin. I wonder if anyone has a video of it...

[Royal Dragon]

I worked it out of the book years ago. It's a good form, and it taught me that you actually CAN learn from books and get stuff that works in a fight.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Well, it looks nothing like Northern Shaolin Lohan, or much southern Shaolin Lohan that I have seen or done.

Personally, I don't like that book nor that style, maybe cause I love Northern Shaolin stuff so much. The moves seem like so impractical.

[taichi4eva]

Royal Dragon, I'm interested in seeing your interpretation of this form. Can you post a video of it online? I'd love to see it.

From what I can make out of the form, there is a lot of side stepping. It looks like Northern Shaolin, because of the Hongquan-like pose, but then again, taking into account the stepping and that the form does not move in a straight line, it looks southern.

Later

[Shaolin Master]

The founder of Fojiapai (Hood Gar Pai is in Hokkien) was Shi Gaocan, Abbott of Shuanglin (Sionglim) Temple in Poyah Toya, Singapore.

His martial arts were derived from Wuzuquan, Zhejiang martial arts (Tiangangquan) and Fujian Luohanquan.

Like many Fujianese styles the methods are simple direct and efficient, conceptually they do not emphasise the one hundred techniques that you know rather they are interest in the one that is perfected.

[Royal Dragon]

taichi4eva,
I don't really have any way to put a clip on line as of yet. That is next year's project. Now, I still have to get my Service provider to return my E-mails. My site has been down since the hurricanes.

As for the book, I used to teach the twoman set from that book, and I fond that it has certian holes in it's use. HOWEVER, when I taught it, as my students naturally discovered the holes, I would use those spots to *improve* into free play, and even free sparring. In the end, the holes themselves became valuable teaching aids.

As for the moves being impractical, well like I said, I got VERY useable applications out of the set from just reading the book, working out the form and drilling it untill I went insane.

Case in point, I used to spar with a Kempo Black belt and former Marine. He was one tough individual to say the least. He always bested me, and i could never beat him. At the time my training consisted of Wu Bu Chuan for posure holding, Dreggar's Louhan set for cardio (kicking drills etc too), and free fighting with Russell. He gave no instruction, we would just glove up and have at it. I learned by getting beat...followed by trying to figure out how, and *Something* to do to prevent it next time.

one day after getting beat repetedly, and badly, someting totally out of the oridnary happned. Suddenly He was on the ground holding his nose, with all the fight knocked out of him. At first I didn't know what I did or what happened. One second he was totally overwhelming me as useual, then next second the tables completely turned and we were running for tissues to stop the blood.

Apon further examination, he had forced me into a position that was in the form, and my body just reacted by performing the next few moves from the set, klobbering him right in the nose with full structural alignment. From my perspective, I did nothing and was just as shocked as he was at the outcome.

After that, I took the set more seriously, and began to isolate various moves from the set that I thought I could use against Russ. I had some failures, but also alot of success. By the time we stoppped meeting to spar, I had made it so he could not touch me. I still had limited success getting him (mostly becasue he has awesome footwork), but he could not touch me no matter how hard he tried. I was useing only techs pulled out of that book, and trying to set up and deliver them useing only footwork from that form.

Now, a pureist would say that I got it all wrong I'm sure, my execution of the form was incorrect and such and such, but I made it work, with no teacher, and ONLY reading the book.

So, that said, if I could learn it, and improve my skills that much from the book alone, with NO live teachings from anyone of that lineage, I'd say it's a good form.

[taichi4eva]

You are a very skilled practicioner.

I have not been able to fully comprehend all the moves of my forms. Perhaps I should isolate the moves and discover application for them.

I find that praying mantis is especially hard because it is so deep- my sifu shows me at least 2 apps for one move.

I look forward next year to seeing the video NEXT year then. I was wondering, the Wubuquan you do, does it resemble the wushu one?

Later

[Royal Dragon]

LOL!! Me a "Skilled" practitioner? if you only knew how badly i su-k!!

The Wu Bu Quan I do is the Wushu one. Although, I think it is realy a short segment from the middle of a much longer traditional Cha Fist set. I modified it a bit to work and train a Tai Tzu technique or two though (as Tai Tzu is the art I research), so my end is different, and I do a transition or two more like it's done in a Tai Tzu set, but otherwise it's the same form verbatum.

I have not been able to fully comprehend all the moves of my forms. Perhaps I should isolate the moves and discover application for them.

Reply]
I think originally all moves were learned like this. Based on my research, styles were origianlly taught one, or maybe a few moves at a time. Each technique was fullly digested and explored for as much martial content as possible before moving on the the next one, or next few. Forms were created from this process.

Later with the advent of comercial schools, forms were taught first (read as "Sold first"), and the applications of the techniques got a bit glossed over. Now many are lost and we must "Reverse Engineer" them to figure out the applications, when originally they were taught out right.