Unusual Standing Post

[fiercest tiger]

Hi All,

Has anyone seen or practise Jaam Jong with there feet together? Is this normal and what do you think could be the bad or negative reactions and positive reactions to standing like this?

Since ive tried it in the beginning was harder the feet shoulder width, also my balance was all over the place. Since over time i feel that my balance and body has internally stablized and during Jaam Jong since the feet are together you feel like you have melted together. Anyway please feel free to comment love to hear what you all think?

FT:)

[TenTigers]

I believe Sun Lu-Tang does this with feet together as well. I've tried it, but ended up separating my feet for the same reasons-I felt off, but you've inspired me to work on this, as body awareness, and detecting thesubleties of skeletal alignment, balance, connection are what it's all about. Thanx!:)

[fiercest tiger]

Hi 10 Tigers,

Your welcome! What type of standing you do as in hand positions?

FT:)

[Wong Fei Hong]

I do that sometimes, tbh, i find that if you are open to energy flow its more powerful it flows through you, whereas if you have blockages, it shakes you to bits, you feel uneasy out of balance and like you are compressing too much power into too small a body.
Thats what ive found.

[fiercest tiger]

WFH,

When i 1st started Jaam Jong it was like that with my legs shoulder width but that isnt like that anymore, but now my feet are together its completely different.

Does anyone use front bow and arrow stance at all?

FT:)

[Shaolin Master]

Hi FT,

Zhanzhuang with feet together is fairly common practice in Hebei and Shaanxi methods. The key is to note that the subtle shift must be stabilised which would then improve all else. We practice standing upright and Dun (squatted) which is lowering as far as possible, thereafter various methods are practiced which contribute to Yang Dantien (Nourish Dantien). typically hands sit above the knee/thigh in either a hooked formation or simply palms upwards.

The front method is often known as Hubuzhuang in our styles and it is also common practice but the unique aspect is that feet are more linear than in gongbu (Bow Step) also the body is aligned to the rear leg rather than the usual shaolin upright body approaches.

Regards
Wu Chanlong

[fiercest tiger]

Hiya,

Thanks, ive never tried in a front bow stance, but was wondering is that stance would produce any good chi cultivation comparing to normal jaam jong standing?

Even is the weight was 50/50?

FT:)

[woliveri]

fiercest tiger,

What factors would you consider allow for optimal qi building?

[fiercest tiger]

wolfy,

1st and formost being totally relaxed, holding no tension, proper posture, natural as i could bu i am open for sugestions and ways of different methods.

Garry:)

[onyomi]

In Bagua there is a series of eight zhan-zhuang positions, beginning with wuji, continuing to liangyi, taiji, sancai... up to bagua positions. The wuji position has the legs together (slightly bent) and the hands at the sides. From there it continually opens and stretches further and further.

[woliveri]

ft,

In over 15 years I've come across only 2 Qigong Masters of high level. Both of them gave exactly the same outline for standing zhan zhuang (wuji).

1. Relaxation (of course).
2. Stance/Alignment.
3. Placement of mind's Attention (the only thing different between the two teachers).


My first teacher's student wrote a book about standing here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0964997606/qid=1133840201/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2243865-0253641?n=507846&s=books&v=glance


In Wuji we have three lines of alignment looking from the front and one line of alignment looking from the side.

The feet should be the same distance apart as Jian Jing points (GB 21) on the shoulders. This distance can be achieved by placing the heel of one foot in the arch of the other forming a sidewards "T". Then turn the foot with the heel in the arch of the other on the ball of it's foot 90 degrees to the front so it's parallel with the other foot. Then advance this foot to be equal to the stationary foot and so both are parallel.

Correct position is found with JianJing directly over YongQuan points (on the feet). Then from BaiHui a line dicects the center line of the body down through Huiyin and to a point between both feet where a horizontal line going though both YongQuan meet.


I hope this is not too confusing.

[fiercest tiger]

Wolfy

Thanks for the breakdown, i think some people use too mucH intent on the principle and structure and lose the most important point the energy and relaxation.

Cheers,
FT

[imperialtaichi]

Hi FT,

There's one called Dun Hou (Squatting Monkey) stance where it's done with feet together, knees bent, body leaning forward slightly, hands together palm facing forward in front of knee, heels slightly off the ground, and trying to elongate the back all the way from Baihui to Changciang. Pretty hard to do, but great for developing power.

Cheers,
John

[fiercest tiger]

Hi John,

Hows it going mate? What type of power would the squatting monkey develop?

Garry

[Shaolin Master]

Storage (Potential Energy) thereafter Contraction and expansion (Kinetic Energy)

Dun Hou Shi is typically from Xinyiquan.

THe zhuang is the preliminary posture and emphasised heavily in Dai Shi Xinyiquan. It is the most favored posture to nourish and develop the dantien since it ensures that breathing is not kept superficial and since it works on a central cycle of qi rotation. In trying to compress and shrink to as small as possible but still very relaxed creates a second nature uniqely. Unfortunately the posture is sensitive in that if not taught properly it can develop many issues of stagnation and thereby worsen health.

Proper training is from Yangdantien (dunhoushi) to zhan dantien (Standing) which develops the contracting and expanding methods of Daishi xinyiquan. These are further developed within stepping and once the zhanzhuang is practiced further methods of practice such as san yuan shou, liuhe shi and the the like. Since all daishi xinyiquan works on the same principles throughout this is all very essential.

The keystones of xinyiquan: jitui, longshen, xiongyao, yingbang, houbei, hubaotou and leisheng are the desired outcomes.

[TenTigers]

FT=
I do several types of Jahm Jong-one simply standing, feet about shoulder width. No thought,simply allowing my body, and mind to connect.
another is with awareness on small heavenly cycle/dan-tien governer/conception
another is embracing the tree with emphasis on opening up gates at third eye,throat,heart,solar plexus, dan-tien,pernium,and crown linking all of the above.I forgot the name, something with water, it's in my notes. There are sounds and visualization connected with each gate., not the six healing sounds as seen by Mantak Chia and others. I must also apologize,as I am not at liberty to go in detail of this. Please understand.
TT

[woliveri]

cjurakpt,

Interesting, I've learned a form which I think is a Swimming Dragon form based on what I can find on the web. This exercise, with the feet together, the palms cupped to each other in prayer fashion, moves the palms in basically, three circles. One around the head, one around the middle torso and down by the feet.

Does this sound similar?

This exercise is suppose to help align the spine and also help lose weight. I think practicing with the feet together helps mental functions.

I have another qigong exercise where the feet are in a "bow" stance but with the inseams of the feet on a straight line. This would make the practitioner easy to push over from the side. But this I think, again, has some mental/brain exercise associated with it.

[woliveri]

Yes, that describes the exercise fairly well (the infinity statement) Sounds like the same exercise.


see? all that from one simple movement...

Yeah, but Opening Channels sounds much better :D

[Shaolin Master]

You know when my teachers taught me, it was more do this because you have to and you do it.

So this brings the question, who brings in all the western physiological aspects into it ?? Is it your own interpretation.

Because, so many times I hear generic impacts in terms of health which many forms of excercise can provide equally or other times I hear some wierd fantasial qi phenomenons that are often very misleading.

[Shaolin Master]

cjurakpt,

Not a point but rather asking a question as follows:

I am asking did your teacher or your teacher's teacher explain the western physiological aspects or did you try and understand by your own means ??

Thanks

[cam]

Spot on cjurakpt, it is important to know the how's and what's of standing practise put into a modern understanding.
The ten essentials may be easier to understand for those who don't have a degree in Human Kinetics but it's nice to know that they are in agreement.

[Xin Yi Liu He]

Hi FT,

There's one called Dun Hou (Squatting Monkey) stance where it's done with feet together, knees bent, body leaning forward slightly, hands together palm facing forward in front of knee, heels slightly off the ground, and trying to elongate the back all the way from Baihui to Changciang. Pretty hard to do, but great for developing power.

Cheers,
John

Hi,

I was just wondering where you got this information regarding, dun hou shi (squatting monkey) as it is absolutely wrong.

You never lean forward, you never have any space under the heels, doing so is going to stick your ass out and you will have 0 ding jin (pressing upwards force), you will also have no, wei lu (tucking the tailbone).

Please for gods sakes don't talk about anything unless you know what you are talking about, due to the fact that someone will read this and think it is fact, when it is fiction.

I would like to talk to you online and discuss where you learned this and from whom, so please contact me at daixinyi@gmail.com

Jon.

[Xin Yi Liu He]

Storage (Potential Energy) thereafter Contraction and expansion (Kinetic Energy)

Dun Hou Shi is typically from Xinyiquan.

THe zhuang is the preliminary posture and emphasised heavily in Dai Shi Xinyiquan. It is the most favored posture to nourish and develop the dantien since it ensures that breathing is not kept superficial and since it works on a central cycle of qi rotation. In trying to compress and shrink to as small as possible but still very relaxed creates a second nature uniqely. Unfortunately the posture is sensitive in that if not taught properly it can develop many issues of stagnation and thereby worsen health.

Proper training is from Yangdantien (dunhoushi) to zhan dantien (Standing) which develops the contracting and expanding methods of Daishi xinyiquan. These are further developed within stepping and once the zhanzhuang is practiced further methods of practice such as san yuan shou, liuhe shi and the the like. Since all daishi xinyiquan works on the same principles throughout this is all very essential.

The keystones of xinyiquan: jitui, longshen, xiongyao, yingbang, houbei, hubaotou and leisheng are the desired outcomes.

Hi,

I would like to ask you a few questions regarding to comments on this post.

Some of the termoinogy is not used in Dai Xin Yi Quan, it comes from Guo Weihan's Xin Yi (as written by Jarek) and XYLHQ, which should not be confused with each other.

Jay.

[imperialtaichi]

Hi,

I was just wondering where you got this information regarding, dun hou shi (squatting monkey) as it is absolutely wrong.

You never lean forward, you never have any space under the heels, doing so is going to stick your ass out and you will have 0 ding jin (pressing upwards force), you will also have no, wei lu (tucking the tailbone).

Please for gods sakes don't talk about anything unless you know what you are talking about, due to the fact that someone will read this and think it is fact, when it is fiction.

I would like to talk to you online and discuss where you learned this and from whom, so please contact me at daixinyi@gmail.com

Jon.

Hi Everyone,

This is not really my main focus area so please if any experts in this area disagrees with me please feel free to point it out. It was just a casual statement base on what I know in reply to an old friend.

Daixinyi, if you would like to discuss where I've learnt this from, and the reasons behind the odd method, please feel free to email me on imperialtaichi@yahoo.com.au

Cheers,
John

[imperialtaichi]

Hi FT,

There's one called Dun Hou (Squatting Monkey) stance where it's done with feet together, knees bent, body leaning forward slightly, hands together palm facing forward in front of knee, heels slightly off the ground, and trying to elongate the back all the way from Baihui to Changciang. Pretty hard to do, but great for developing power.

Cheers,
John

The purpose of what I describe above, is to develop "resilience", for a lack of a better word to describe it.

It is not to just stay static in the position above, but to "pulse" it from a balanced sitting back position to the "Stretched" position. Each "stretched" position should last for a few seconds at most, before returning to the resting position.

When contact is established with an opponent, the whole body "stretches" in a "pulse" quickly from a resting position, bouncing out the opponent with very little movement.

One of the point to watch out for is the Mingmen and Lumbar area that should stay aligned to avoid injuries, and don't over do the stretch.

Please play with it; as I said before, this is not my area of focus so if you do not find this rewarding just do what you've been doing and comfortable with.

Cheers,
John

[Xin Yi Liu He]

The purpose of what I describe above, is to develop "resilience", for a lack of a better word to describe it.

It is not to just stay static in the position above, but to "pulse" it from a balanced sitting back position to the "Stretched" position. Each "stretched" position should last for a few seconds at most, before returning to the resting position.

When contact is established with an opponent, the whole body "stretches" in a "pulse" quickly from a resting position, bouncing out the opponent with very little movement.

One of the point to watch out for is the Mingmen and Lumbar area that should stay aligned to avoid injuries, and don't over do the stretch.

Please play with it; as I said before, this is not my area of focus so if you do not find this rewarding just do what you've been doing and comfortable with.

Cheers,
John

Please add me to your Skype at Lohan88864 and if you have time we can discuss this.

Jay.

[Xin Yi Liu He]

The purpose of what I describe above, is to develop "resilience", for a lack of a better word to describe it.

It is not to just stay static in the position above, but to "pulse" it from a balanced sitting back position to the "Stretched" position. Each "stretched" position should last for a few seconds at most, before returning to the resting position.

When contact is established with an opponent, the whole body "stretches" in a "pulse" quickly from a resting position, bouncing out the opponent with very little movement.

One of the point to watch out for is the Mingmen and Lumbar area that should stay aligned to avoid injuries, and don't over do the stretch.

Please play with it; as I said before, this is not my area of focus so if you do not find this rewarding just do what you've been doing and comfortable with.

Cheers,
John


I think it is best for people to don't play with anything they don't understand.

If you don't learn, dun hou shi (squatting monkey) from a qualified instructor, you can do more harm than good.

For example you can injure your spine or chest if the right alignments are not learned properly.

Squatting monkey is no joke, traditionally in Shanxi you were required to learn this solely for 3 years before you learned anything else.

Jay.

[imperialtaichi]

Please add me to your Skype at Lohan88864 and if you have time we can discuss this.

Jay.

Hello Jay,

Sorry, I don't have skype.

I have tremendous respect for Shanxi Xinyi Liuhe, I will be more than happy to talk to anyone who has some expertise in this area.

And since you are only in NZ, if you're ever in Sydney just let me know!

Cheers,
John

[imperialtaichi]

I think it is best for people to don't play with anything they don't understand.

If you don't learn, dun hou shi (squatting monkey) from a qualified instructor, you can do more harm than good.

For example you can injure your spine or chest if the right alignments are not learned properly.

Squatting monkey is no joke, traditionally in Shanxi you were required to learn this solely for 3 years before you learned anything else.

Jay.

OK, if you feel so strongly about it, I am not in a position to argue with you.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Aligning center of body-mass over yongquan will set the spine off its perpendicular relationship to the pull of gravity.. the spine will be oriented several degrees to the rear, such that any activation of energy from the ground upward will initiate a movement oriented to the rear/retreating.. Setting the spine in the vertical alignment, perpendicular to the pull of gravity, is the neutral position.. even-though the body-mass is slightly forward, it is also oriented in the direction of our attention.. this alignment shifts the weight from the heels (static) to the 'bubbling well' (active), but it does not disconnect the heels.. the heels become bracing supports.. When bending the knees, shift their position forward, over the toes.. this will naturally rotate the hips and orient the sacrum downward without having to engage the abs.. The legs will support the relaxed upper body in a most unique way, with the spine vertically over the sacrum, gravity pulls the pelvis into alignment while the upper body relaxes into structure.. the gentle pull of the 'body-mass forward' actually opens up space between the vertebra, and sets a natural 'bow'..

Now, as i have learned, the real trick is to incorporate this alignment into our Taiji..

Be well..

[mkriii]

WFH,

When i 1st started Jaam Jong it was like that with my legs shoulder width but that isnt like that anymore, but now my feet are together its completely different.

Does anyone use front bow and arrow stance at all?

FT:)

What exactly is Jamm Jong and how do you do it?