New pics

[IronFist]

This was two weeks ago before I got a cold and lost weight (we all know how fast I lose weight). This was also after a workout so I had a bit of a pump:

Here (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ironfistx/abspose1.jpg). My skinny ass arms don't grow.

5'9.5"
170lbs
8-9%bf (estimated)

Legs (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ironfistx/quadspose1.jpg) (my mirror doesn't go low enough to show calves. And those are normal boxer shorts that I pulled up... not some weird-ass underwear).

[Mel]

Is it hot in here, or is it just me?

[Wong Fei Hong]

Lol at the y-fronts justification :D

Nice one man, keep up the good work !

[Ford Prefect]

So is Santa bringing you speedo's for x-mas? Nice work, bro.

[IronFist]

^^ What's a y-front?

^ Thanks, bro.

[Mortal1]

Dude your ripped!

But I could have done with out the leg shot. lolo

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

im with mortal.

good physique, impressive even, but the second pic should be reserved for ming yue and the like.

[IronFist]

Well, I posted a leg pic because I do squats. And after I talk as much smack as I do on here about people who don't do squats/do squats properly, I don't want to be accused of being Mr. I-only-do-bench-and-biceps-curls chicken legs. I labeled it a leg shot, too, so you had fair warning. I can't help it if you guys are hom0phobic :D

[Wong Fei Hong]

lol y fronts are the speedo style underwear that has a slit in the front so you can whip it out easier.

As opposed to boxer shorts.

[IronFist]

I'm pretty sure all guys' underwear, boxers, and boxer-briefs have that y-front.

[Mel]

Don't let them bother you, IronFist. You go ahead and post as many pictures as you want.;)

[Wong Fei Hong]

thats the word for them briefs with the slit in the front.

[Samurai Jack]

Wong sent me a PM saying he'd send you a pair of crotchless briefs if you'd wear them in your next shoot, Iron.

[IronFist]

Sounds good to me, since I left my other pair of crotchless briefs at somebody's mother's house.

[bodhitree]

Iron
just out of curiosity, how do people not do squats properly? Thanks.

nice pics.

[JamesC]

Hey IronFist,

Nice pics man. I'm about your size, but not ripped, just trying to get that way. I'm working on putting on about ten to fifteen pounds of muscle mass. Unfortunately, i'm a hard gainer so it's really hard.

I've been meeting with a personal trainer for help though. She told me that ripping will be the easy part and the mass will be difficult.

BodhiTree, some people like to do squats with their back out of line and using their knees. Very big no no. Though it is nearly impossible to do wrong if they join a gym with a smith machine. My favorite invention...ever.

[JamesC]

BTW IronFist,

What is your purpose for lifting? Martial arts? Health? Bodybuilding? Powerlifting?

[IronFist]

Iron
just out of curiosity, how do people not do squats properly? Thanks.


The biggest mistakes I see are 1) not going down far enough and 2) using bad form. This second one can be broken into a bunch of sub-parts, such as knees coming together at the bottom, knees not following the toes, feet in the wrong position, leaning too far foward, leaning too far backward, rounding the back, using too much back (I've seen people do squats that look like good mornings, and while I understand that some wide-stanced powerlifting squats can look like this, this is NOT what I'm talking about in this case) and the list goes on and on. Those are the most common ones I see.

I still consider it incorrect even if the form is otherwise perfect but the lifter does not go down far enough. The thighs need to be parallel to the ground, and I'm pretty sure in competition the ASIS of the hip has to go below the knees.

[IronFist]

BTW IronFist,

What is your purpose for lifting? Martial arts? Health? Bodybuilding? Powerlifting?

Yes.

Martial arts - my strength has been very beneficial, especially in full-body movements like throwing Thai kicks and grappling.

Health - I never want to be not strong enough to do something. I also try to keep my body strong so I don't ever accidently get injured (such as throwing out my lower back which seems to be common among people).

Bodybuilding - I used to want to be a big bodybuilder but then I realized that I didn't have the genetics for it, even at 6,000 calories a day, now "bodybuilding" has been replaced with "having a good physique."

Powerlifting - I competed last March. Why not be as strong as possible? :D

[Wong Fei Hong]

Man how did we go from a serious debate about crotchless chocolate flavoured briefs to squats :rolleyes:

Jamesc is the smith machine the one that keeps the line of the squat straight i swear by that machine for squats, i heard a lot of negative stuff about it, but when i was shown how to use one, i swear it is amazing for squats its the real deal, i couldnt imagine squatting without one.

As for the hard part being the mass, one thing ive started to realise, being around ppl recently who went from my weight of under 70kilos to under 100 kg in 1 year its quite simple how they did it.

There is no such thing as enough food
There is no such thing as over training !
lol
This is how im going to try it next time round.

[JamesC]

Yeah, the smith machines is basically a squat rack with the bar staying in a straight line throughout the entire movement. You simply turn the bar to lock it into and out of place. A great machine that can be used for a number of exercises including squats, calf raises, bench press, military press, lunges, just about anything that requires a press.

I agree Iron Fist. In fact i'm on the way out of the door with a protein shake. Hitting the gym before work. Hah!

[IronFist]

There is such a thing as overtraining.

Elite powerlifters call Smith machines "knee shredders." Ford can give you more info on that.

I would rather use a leg press machine than a Smith machine for squats. I wouldn't actually consider Smith machine squats to be very close to real squats. Leg presses aren't very close to real squats, either, but at least they safely and effectively work the quads.

[JamesC]

I use both. I only train my heavy lifting on the leg press though, because I get a better pump that way.

My smith machine exercise is usually a burner. Just something I use to weaken my legs as much as possible before I hit the lunges.

I haven't had any trouble with my knees yet though. Then again, I might just not be feeling it.:rolleyes:

[Toby]

Avoid the smith machine. I used to use it for squats, bench (incline and decline, not flat), military press. It forces the lift into an unusual path. Sure you can lift heavier on the smith machine, but it's worth learning the lifts with a free bar IMHO.

[Chief Fox]

You actually are cheating yourself by using a Smith Machine. With a mith machine you don't have to stabilize the weight. So all of those stabilizer muscles are not being worked. You're training your body to not use those muscles when lifting weight. This is bad. Also a perfectly linear path is not natural so a smith machine actually works against your bodies natural movements.

I have no idea why a person would use a smith machine. I can't see one benefit to it. The only thing a smith machine does is pad your ego.

[IronFist]

^ Don't forget the sheer force on your knees. That's worse than using the wrong path or being able to use more weight.

[JamesC]

I would use free weights, but I don't have a training partner. I'm lifting heavy and without someone there to spot me, it can be dangerous. I'll take the Smith Machine.

[Chief Fox]

I would use free weights, but I don't have a training partner. I'm lifting heavy and without someone there to spot me, it can be dangerous. I'll take the Smith Machine.
To each his own but I would rather use less weight sans smith machine. Just try it for one workout.

[JamesC]

Fair enough. I'll give it a try tomorrow.

[FatherDog]

I would use free weights, but I don't have a training partner. I'm lifting heavy and without someone there to spot me, it can be dangerous. I'll take the Smith Machine.

Do deadlifts.

[IronFist]

Or use the spotter bars in the squat cage.

Remember to keep your abs tight and your back tightly arched and your ass sticking out. You can get away without doing that sometimes with a Smith machine, but failing to do so with free weight squats can cause you to get injured.

And start a lot lighter than what you think you'll be able to do. The groove is different with free weights and you need to adapt to it before you can start piling on the weight.

[omarthefish]

You actually are cheating yourself by using a Smith Machine. With a mith machine you don't have to stabilize the weight. So all of those stabilizer muscles are not being worked. You're training your body to not use those muscles when lifting weight. This is bad. Also a perfectly linear path is not natural so a smith machine actually works against your bodies natural movements.

I actually left the upscale gym across the street from my flat for one about a 20 minute walk away just because all they had was that **** machine and no squat rack.



I have no idea why a person would use a smith machine. I can't see one benefit to it. The only thing a smith machine does is pad your ego.

It didn't even pad my ego. The reason has to do with this post:


^ Don't forget the sheer force on your knees. That's worse than using the wrong path or being able to use more weight.

Fortunately for me, the trainers at the gym were there to adjust my form from what I was used to doing squats to what I should do with that **** rack. Basically they made me put my feet out ****her in front of me than I was comfortable with. That made the whole movement more like a leg press. It prevented my back from getting in on the action (for better or for worse) but it protected my knees. The thing was though...it was a suffuciently different movement from a true squat and more isolated on my legs as opposed to leg/buttocks/back/etc. that I actually had to work with 40 lbs LESS than I had been doing with a proper squat rack.

Now it turns out that this was a good thing to learn but it seemed like it kind of defeated the whole purpose of squats and ruined the basic appeal for me.

I'm a relative noob to this whole lifting thing but I did get my squat up to 270 last week after only about a half year of training. I weigh 170 so that's past the 1.5 x bodyweight mark and closing in on the magic 300. Not that 300 is any kind of impressive record but the sight of those 45's...3 on each side...it has a certain appel...waitasec...that's more like 310 isn't it? Bummer. 300 is such a nice round number. Now I have to shoot for 310. *grrrr* :D I guess the real next goal should be 2x bodyweight though. *sigh* that's still to far off to shoot for. 300 I can see just over the horizon!

[Samurai Jack]

Do deadlifts.

Word on that. Deads are the great unsung, or at least they used to be until Pavel's "Power to the People." Now I hear a lot of people talking about deadlifts. I still have yet to see anyone doing 'em, but everyone in my gym used to tell me how great they were when I was doing them. It's one of the main reasons I started training at home. I hate adolescent armchair weightlifters and thier barbell-curls in my squat rack! Get the f@$# outta here!!! I'm supersetting b!#@$!!!

Sorry, I get emotional about my old gym.

Deadlifts rule.

[IronFist]

I'm a relative noob to this whole lifting thing but I did get my squat up to 270 last week after only about a half year of training. I weigh 170 so that's past the 1.5 x bodyweight mark and closing in on the magic 300.

Seriously? That's really good. I weigh 165 ish and it took me forever to get to 300. Are you doing a full range squat where the ASIS of the hip gets below the knee?


Not that 300 is any kind of impressive record but the sight of those 45's...3 on each side...it has a certain appel...waitasec...that's more like 310 isn't it? Bummer. 300 is such a nice round number. Now I have to shoot for 310. *grrrr* :D I guess the real next goal should be 2x bodyweight though. *sigh* that's still to far off to shoot for. 300 I can see just over the horizon!

Three 45s on each side is 315.

[IronFist]

Deadlifts rule.

Word.

10 character limit.

[omarthefish]

Seriously? That's really good. I weigh 165 ish and it took me forever to get to 300. Are you doing a full range squat where the ASIS of the hip gets below the knee?


I had been ****ing around in the weight room for about a year or so before I started truly squatting but I was really just hanging out there because they had a heavy bag to work with. Fact was....I was just scared of the **** squat rack.

Full range? Not sure. I am very carefull to go to parallel but I am still really aprehensive about letting the hips get below the knee. Everything I ever learned about stance training was that this was bad for the knee as it shifted the load off the muscles and on to the tendons.

Once I got up to about 220 I started needing a spotter. Not so much for safety (nice rack with "spotter bars") but because in order to protect my form I have found I need to really look up at the ceiling and not the mirror. As soon as I look forward I tend to tip forward. There's also something psychological about looking up as you squat. I think it helps but now I have someone stand behind me and tell me when I've gone down far enough rather than relying on my proprioceptic (forgot how to spell it) senses.

Pushing past 250 was really tough. I got stuck for a while at 240. One day one of the trainers just threw 270 on the bar and told me to try. I only could make it about 2/3 of the way down without starting to tip forward so what I did for the next week was I started setting the bar on the bottom part of the rack at the height I should be at at the lowest part of the squat, crawled under that bar and squatted up from there. I'd just do singles but starting from the bottom instead of the top. That meant backing up to only about 220 for a while but then the next week I put the bar up high again and managed a 270 squat going down to thighs parallel. Yippee.

So far it's all been mostly just little groups or 3-6 reps or even just doing singles. it seems to be working. I do sets of 8 for deadlifts but for squats they tire me out too quickly so I try to keep the reps low.

[IronFist]

That's pretty awesome, dude. I'm jealous. At the peak of a powerlifting cycle I hit 315 x 1 on squat @ a bodyweight of like 165lbs. This was over a year ago and I haven't attempted it again, but I did happen to get it on video. Haha.

I have naturally weak legs, tho (I'm a total ectomorph), so I was proud of myself.

I was going to give you s.hit if you said you didn't go down all the way, because I see people all the time who are like "yeah man I can rep 300+ on squat" and then I watch them go down MAYBE half way." But instead, I give you props cuz you're making good progress.

Before you get under the bar for a big set, close your eyes and stand on one foot for a few seconds. I read this trick in one of Pavel's newsletters I think. I forgot why it works, but it has something to do with kind of making your body freak out and that gives you a short term boost or something. I really don't remember why, but I know that I made that trick part of my routine on heavy squat days. Even if it's purely psychological, it's still something. Just don't become dependent on it, like "oh crap, I can't squat without doing this first."

Cheers.

[omarthefish]

Actually, I got me a copy of "Dinosaur Trianing" recently and that's been a huge guidline although you have to be carefull because it's easy to get injured that way. I tweaked something in one of my ribs abou 3 weeks ago just from pushing it too hard.

The standing in front of the bar is something he (the Dinosaur author) really emphasises. One big reason I became a fan of the squat and why I was able to get over my anti-lifting prujudice in general was when I was able to really get into the mind body connection involved. Visualizations, breath control and of course the HUGE amount of cross over between squats and proper stance training.

I HATE the terms "ecto/meso/whatever-morph". Just excuses as far as I am concerned. Even if the classifications are real they aren't helpfull. Just bad self programming.

My problem is with the upper body stuff. I can't seem to make any progress on the bench press but I know the reason why. I haven't figured out how to convince my self it's relevant to what I do as a martial artist. The whole motion of the squat, the way it unifies that legs and waist, the way you have to be carefull about the angle of your knees and the placement of your feet, general motion of contraction and expansion of the whole body....that's what punching is. The bench press is still about vanity for me. I don't know how to get psyched about it.

In addition to standing with my eyes closed for a moment I often like to jump up and down a couple times landing hard. I like to feel that little jolt from my feet all the way up to my head as I land. I figure that that is kind of the path I want the power of my squat to take.

Now if you could tell me any tricks to help at the bench press I'd be psyched.

[IronFist]

I HATE the terms "ecto/meso/whatever-morph". Just excuses as far as I am concerned. Even if the classifications are real they aren't helpfull.

I HATE when people say it's an excuse ;) . Everyone has unique genetics, and some people are on opposite ends of the bell curve.

I said I'm an ecto because even when I eat 6000 calories a day for months at a time I hardly gain weight. I do not possess the genetics to carry weight, and no amount of food or drugs will change that. So, I can't call that an "excuse" any more than I can yell at an endomorph who can't lose weight and say "what's wrong with you? You can't lose weight? Look how easily I can lose weight."


What's your bench press program look like?

[omarthefish]

Program?!?

hahahahahahahhhroflhehee lol .. . . . .

I think I read about one of those in a book once....

[Toby]

Now I hear a lot of people talking about deadlifts. I still have yet to see anyone doing 'em ...That's because we all hide out in home gyms ;). Sounds like you started training at home for similar reasons I did.

[Toby]

... I see people all the time who are like "yeah man I can rep 300+ on squat" and then I watch them go down MAYBE half way."I felt my ears burning :D.

[Toby]

Now if you could tell me any tricks to help at the bench press I'd be psyched.I posted this in some other thread, but here ya go:

Feet on the ground.
Arse on the bench.
Arch in the back. Drive your chest and lower ribs up in the air.
Drive your feet into the ground and shoulders into the bench. Sometimes my arse is barely touching the bench.
I like to concentrate on pulling my shoulders down by contracting my lats.
Elbows at about 45°.
Hands placed so that your forearms are vertical in the lowered position, i.e. not to wide, not too narrow.
Lower the bar to about 2 finger widths below the notch at the bottom of your sternum.

That's about it off the top of my head. Thanks to various forum members for all the tips.

[omarthefish]

My favorite thing about that list is how many of those are things that every one at my gym is always on my ass NOT to do. :D

If I could bench even my own weight I'd have told them all to STFU a long time ago. That's what I do at the squat rack.

- "Hey man! You should do at least 8 reps...."

- "Can you squat 270?"

- " . . . "

- "STFU then."
-----------------------------------------

On the bench I am such a wimp that I really don't know if arching my back is good or not. I always want to but everyone would tell me not to. Why? I ask. They say because that lets me "borrow strength from [fill in the blank]"

That's where I get confused. I don't understand how that is a bad thing.

This:


Lower the bar to about 2 finger widths below the notch at the bottom of your sternum.

...is news to me. I'll try it out tonight. As to the rest, just basically giving me assurance I should go with my instincts on this one. Part of me wants to use the same approach I've been using on the squats/deadlift/leg stuff but there's another part which has to admit that I want a little size up top, not just strength.

I can admit it.

I'm vain. Shallow chested, skinny armed and vain. :rolleyes:

[Toby]

My favorite thing about that list is how many of those are things that every one at my gym is always on my ass NOT to do. :DYep :cool:.

My list is pretty much powerlifting-style benching. I'm by no means a bench expert, but I did put about 30kg on my 1RM using this and PTP. That's not from newbie either, I'd been benching regularly for about 4-5 years when I switched to powerlifting/PTP.

Lowering to 2 finger widths ... is to reduce the load on your shoulder I believe. Works for me. Try it now - put your arms in the low position. It's easy to keep your lats contracted and shoulders down. Try putting your hands where they'd be if you lowered to e.g. above your nipples. You've sorta gotta shrug your shoulders and it feels a bit uncomfortable and cramped.

Some (all?) of those things should go together. E.g. if you usually bench with elbows straight out at 90° to your body and you try to lower the bar to the 2 finger width spot, you'll probably drop the bar on your stomach. If you keep the arms at 45°, the arms will be directly below the bar the whole time.

[Toby]

Funnily enough, while I was searching for something else the first link I came across was this thread (http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25515) where Ford and Iron schooled my noobie ass on bench form. Around then was where I first became interested in proper benching. In that thread I was pushing 237lb, I've since added 50lb in 2 years. Damn, I sound like a dick in that thread :p.

[IronFist]

^ Read that thread and ph34r my 1337 ar+ skillzzzz!11!1!!oneone!1!!

[IronFist]

For the n00bs skimming this thread, Toby's "2 finger width" does not refer to how high above your chest you stop the bar :p It refers to laterally the location at which the bar touches your chest.

That's right. The bar touches your chest at the bottom, even tho your friends probably tell you not to because you can lift more weight if you only come down 2/3 of the way.

I'm still not too crazy about that "tear the bar apart" thing. Consciously pulling your hands apart is the opposite of what the pecs do (draw your arms to the center) and while I can see how doing so would engage the triceps more, it seems like it would disengage the pecs a bit. I always thought with powerlifts the object was to generate as much tension as possible throughout the entire body. I can understand consciously flexing the triceps during bench, but I'll have to play around with this "tearing the bar apart" thing more I think...

[IronFist]

One more bench tip:

Tighten your abs as hard as you can (you should be doing this while you squat and deadlift, too). It will feel a bit weird with your back arched and your abdominals elongated (ie. the opposite of the peak contraction in a crunch or situp), but it's good for stabilization, and it's a good way to generate more tension which will in turn help you lift more.

The more overall tension you can generate, the stronger you will be. Contract the glutes, the abs, squeeze the bar as hard as you can, etc.

For normal reps, breathe out as you push the bar up with a "tsssssss" sound. That will help you keep your abs tight. Don't hold your breath (under normal conditions).

[fa_jing]

rather than tearing the bar apart, what works for me is trying to bend the bar, i.e. exerting pressure with the hands as if I was trying to turn my hands palm up. This helps me keep my elbows in among other things. It is also good to identify your sticking point, the point were the rep becomes difficult or impossible.

You shouldn't need to look at the ceiling when you squat. Looking slightly up should be sufficient. Bounce a little (a little!!!) at the bottom no matter if you squat to parallel or all the way down, this takes advantage of the stretch reflex. Bottoms up squats (from the bottom postion up) are definitely cool.

[IronFist]

I believe just squeezing the bar in bench press as hard as you can should help engage the triceps a bit, too.

[Kristoffer]

dude u got lifting skillz

[Samurai Jack]

Thanks for the tips. I sure miss threads like these.

[Samurai Jack]

Especially when they start off with such sexy pics.

[Samurai Jack]

Vash told me to write that last one. ^^^

[IronFist]

^ That's ok. You should have seen the PMs he sent me :eek:




:p

[Vash]

at least, never will again. :mad:

:D

[Samurai Jack]

;)

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[Ford Prefect]

Toby....

what a punk.