Drunken Boxing / Drunken Kung Fu [Archive]

Mantis_Hand

03-04-2002, 08:38 AM

I'm not going to disregard the possiblity that somewhere, at some time there was an entire style dedicated to the Drunken kung fu, BUT I will state what I know and what I've learned.

I don't practice the drunken form, not yet at least. There are no students in my school who know any of the drunken forms and my sifu doesn't teach it.

Drunken Style, from my understanding, is a misconception. Drunken Kung Fu is a form. Many schools have it. I know for a fact that Wah Lum, as I am a student of Wah Lum Pai, has a drunken form as many other systems do as well.

If you're looking into learning a drunken form, ask the sifu in any of the schools you check out if there is a form. Also understand that the drunken form is generally a very advanced form and requires sick flexibility to perform correctly. It's not something you'll learn for a while.

edit: holy cow... I just looked at my registration date. 1970?!?! I've been a member of KFO's forums for longer than I've been a live. :D

daniel_merk

03-06-2002, 12:12 PM

Thanks for all of your input. I will stick to learning before I desire to get ahead of my self. Makes sence.

:-)

ewallace

03-06-2002, 12:18 PM

I get drunk and practice kung fu. Therefore I practice drunken kung fu. Feel free to come to my school :)

daniel_merk

03-06-2002, 12:23 PM

mmuuuuuauaaaaaa!

Mantis_Hand

03-07-2002, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by daniel_merk
Thanks for all of your input. I will stick to learning before I desire to get ahead of my self. Makes sence.

:-) my broken whiskey bottle technique can beat your drunken kung fu! :D

Former castleva

03-07-2002, 12:46 PM

Just like before,I don´t know much about that.
But as you are a new member,I would like to make sure you see this thread.

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7247&highlight=do+you+drink+a+little+drunken

No_Know

03-07-2002, 02:05 PM

There should be a Hung Fot (Fut) School in Ohio. That systm has a drunken set which seems to be one of the highlihgts of the System. -ish Very good.

diego

04-30-2002, 12:18 PM

many styles have these, i know hunggar has these, i know lions roar tibet gf has these, and i think choy li fut and bak mei even have these.

What is thier trianing purpose, and what is the history as many styles have the same makeup kit who started this?.
If You Please:)

DrunkenMunky

05-01-2002, 12:01 PM

I have a couple of questions about the drunken boxing form. There is this roll in it that requires you to kinda do a hand spring, i think the actual move is called a "head kick" cause you're like in a headstand and you have to land on your feet. I'm having difficulty doing this move, anyone have any tips on how i can do it? And my teacher said drunken boxing is useless in a real fight, what do you all think? Thanks for all your help.

No_Know

05-02-2002, 01:42 AM

Look for mainland China competitions. They might have this routine or at least that technique as the Ziujiquan?

first learn rolls (forward), then:

cartwheel
roundoff
handspring
handstand against a wall~
free standing handstand
walking on your hands (feet in the above your waist)
-backwards from the wall
-free standing forwards and backwards
headspring
Kip (up)

Then:

headspring from handstand at wall.
build to diving headspring like in the routine.

This might be something. Meanwhile conditioning lightly your head and neck (flexability/strengthening).

shaolinboxer

05-02-2002, 06:29 AM

When you do a head spring, the trick is to drive your heels back under you as quickly and directly as you can. Try to kick youself in the butt, and push straight up with your arms and neck, not out and forward. You need the sudden push to get you up, and the kick in the butt you turn you over. Above all, be quick!

Keep trying and good luck!

As far as fighting and and drunken boxing...I think the concepts of looseness, fluidity, surprise, and distraction are all good tools for fighting skills....but the specific movements may not bne directed towards combat.

mestre

05-02-2002, 09:03 AM

Its very important to keep your hips out and back arched when doing this as this gives you the memento to land on ur feet.

TenTigers

05-03-2002, 02:32 PM

Different drunken sets train different things, wu-shu is performance oriented, but we practice an eight drunken immortals set that is pure fighting. Takedowns, throws, suplexes,jointlocks,counter jointlocks, leg and ankle locks and breaks, all very effective. They just appear drunk due to the fact that you are rolling on the ground, But take a series of BJJ techniques and do them in a form and it will look similar.

mad taoist

05-05-2002, 06:09 PM

We have a similar move in our style. You do a 'handstand' on two hands, your head and your shoulder. Your hands are both on one side, so your body is leaning to one side. Your feet are together. It is sort of like stance training; we try to hold it for as long as we can. Then we kick, bending our knees and then kicking with our heels together. It is immediately after the snap that we roll backward (were your body is facing) to a stand up.

Hope that makes sense!

joedoe

05-05-2002, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by DrunkenMunky
...
And my teacher said drunken boxing is useless in a real fight, what do you all think? Thanks for all your help.

So why does he teach it? If drunken boxing was useless in a fight, it wouldn't have survived this long.

Julien

05-05-2002, 08:33 PM

hmmm... well, drunken boxing has the confusion factor

i would be confused if i thought a man was going to jab me in the face and actually kicked me in the knee.

Tyger

05-06-2002, 09:40 AM

We don't have a particular drunken form/set where I study, but the
drunken mind-set and way of moving can be adopted by any of the
other sets.

There may be unrealistic drunken techniques out there, but many
motions are intended for health or training and not neccessarily
combat (this is true in many styles/individual sets). In my
experience, drunken fighting is very disorienting to the opponant
and the relaxed power generated by the movements is equal to
more orthadox meathods. It may look a little hoaky at times, but
anybody who says it's worthless probably hasn't had enough
experience with it. But hey, we can't be experts in everything
right?

Vash

02-06-2004, 05:35 PM

Choy Lay Fut Drunken Set Article (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=438)

Video for ^ (http://www.leekoonhungkungfu.com/supplies.html)

Joybotsin (http://www.joybotsin.com)

Shaolin Drunken Set (http://store.martialartsmart.net/pr-gs003.html)

Zui Quan Instruction Manual (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/mavideosrc1/zuiquandrunk.html)

Not Really Worth Clicking (http://www.drunkenboxing.s5.com/)

Thread Roughly Related to Drunken Kung Fu Video (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27860)

Please. Throw out your own links, thoughts on the system, locations of reliable teachers, things like that. The usual Ultimate game.

SevenStar

02-06-2004, 05:52 PM

I chose yes, for nostalgic reasons. When I was younger, I always wanted to train it. I don't have any links to post, but I have two video tapes on drunken - one is an empty hand set and the other has staff and sword sets.

CaptinPickAxe

02-06-2004, 06:09 PM

Here's the question of the day:
What are the chances you could apply Drunken Boxing in a real situation? Not bashing, just curious of its effectiveness. I, too, wanted to learn DB, but kind of forgot about it as I progressed in my training.

Vash

02-06-2004, 08:07 PM

I imagine that'd take hella long time to actually be able to apply.

Still, drunk wrestlers/boxers on the street seem to be the one's we're supposed to be training against.

CaptinPickAxe

02-06-2004, 08:12 PM

Its easy to restrain a drunk. Trying to act like a drunk takes serious control. An old KF brother of mine put it perfectly, "Its being so controlled you look out of control". He knew a drunken form and had been practicing for close to a year and it still looked ridgid. Honestly though, how effective would a drunken boxing move be on the street? The whole misleading thing would be a plus, but how much would that help?

norther practitioner

02-06-2004, 08:21 PM

Some of drunken style is obviously over embelished....

I have taken several things out of a part of a form and used it once (somewhat successfully) in the street (or club for that matter).

The move...

step in diagnol to a straightish punch and block same side (left jab... block left arm outward) kick right leg back hard enough that it throws your body foward.. kick kinda looks like an off kilter scorpion kick...

Like I said, or not but I was really lucky, I think you have to realize your limitations in everything, but db is something I have had fun with...:D

Vash

02-08-2004, 01:49 PM

Shane;

Excellent post. Gotta question.

Do you have any knowledge of/experience with the folks at Joytbotsin (http://www.joybotsin.com) ?

Another question;

You know of any Drunken practitioners in or near Arkansas?

Again, good read. Links were very interesting. Looking forward to hearing from you again.

Vash

02-08-2004, 08:32 PM

Thanks anyway, Shane. Doesn't seem like there's sh!te for martial arts 'round here, with the exception of my school, and another in a close-by town.

Thanks for the responses. Peace.

anton

02-09-2004, 06:37 AM

Drunken style always comes up in MA forums. Just posting to say that this has been one of the most informative threads I have read on the subject... good stuff dudes, esp Shane.

Vash

02-09-2004, 11:10 AM

For those in the know, what are the fundamental differences between the Drunken forms of Shaolin origin and those of the Taoist lines?

Vash

02-10-2004, 07:37 PM

Another thought . . .

Why are there so many styles of kung fu which contain a drunken form? Do these forms share a common ancestry? Are they influenced by a particular person?

Or, were they developed independently, as much as martial arts of the same national origin can be?

Oh, ttt.

PHILBERT

02-10-2004, 11:07 PM

I own that Zuijiuquan book. Half of it is in Chinese and half in English (the Chinese is translated into English so both can read it). It is 155 pages, and has only drawings and its more Wushu. Good book to learn a form and movements, but it doesn't divide it into sections of footwork, hand work, stances, etc. Just the form.

Vash

02-11-2004, 10:02 AM

Ugh. I'm trying to avoid anything Wushu.

Guess I'm a neo-Classical as opposed to a neo-Traditional.

Vash

02-11-2004, 10:22 PM

Does anyone have any more non-wushu links besides those already posted?

Vash

02-13-2004, 08:28 AM

ttt

Gangsterfist

02-13-2004, 10:26 AM

Of course at one point I asked my sifu about drunken style kung fu as well. I am fortunate to have trained with people who have a pretty broad knowledge of martial arts. Of course some knowledge is limited. My sifu has trained in the 5 animal styles of shaolin along with some monkey boxing and a little bit of drunken boxing. He has showed us some drunken crane techniques, and some drunken monkey (also a few others but can't quite remember). Of course I do not know any forms, I was just showed a few techniques and a few movements from some of the forms. My knowledge is limited but I do know a few practical uses for some types of drunken boxing.

Drunken crane seems to be geared against multiple opponets (or at least the few movements I have been shown). There are techniques where you will front kick, and then lean back and strike both arms out with cranes beak attacks, attacking three opponets at once. There are many variations of this movement.

Apparently the history behind drunken monkey boxing is that it was developed by a man in prison. His cell had a view of a huge tree. In that tree dwelled tons of monkey that ate the fruit of the tree. The fruit would sometimes ferment and the monkeys would get drunk off it. He witnessed a smaller monkey fight a larger one while drunk. The smaller monkey would just flail his body around to avoid being grabbed and also used dead weight to avoid being picked up. The prisoner (sorry I am terrible with chinese names I always forget them) mimiced these movements and created drunken monkey boxing based off the actual drunken monkeys in the tree. He then used it to escape prison and taught his kung fu to others. Of course this is all myth I believe, and more than likely some monk one day realized he could root himself in akward stances if he trained for it.

So, the few applications I have learned are really anti-chin na or anti-grappling like techniques. If someone grabs you or bear hugs you drop your weight, post on one leg, then flail your body in cirular motions, wrap your non posted leg around one of theirs to gain leverage and sweep them to the ground with you on top of them. Of course that is one way to do this basic technique, and other systems probably use something similar.

I will have to ask some of the people I train with that know more, and if they know of any really good books, website, etc I will post it here.

Gangsterfist

02-13-2004, 01:21 PM

Good post shane-

I would just like to comment on the animal styles. Initially the animals styles were mimicing animals. However, it is the animals instinct to do what they do to survive. We are copying their instinctual acts. So we then change what they do into something that is more applicable to our structure. There will always be a human factor because we are not cranes, snakes, tigers, leopards, eagles, and so on.

Also, to my knowledge not too many animals get drunk. Monkeys have been known to get drunk off fermented fruit, and I read stories about how monkeys in India will bust into peoples homes, raid their cabinets, and drink their liquor (man monkeys rule).

Out of all the drunken styles and practitioners I have seen, I would have to say some of the best stuff I have ever seen was from Jackie Chan.

Vash

02-13-2004, 07:16 PM

Shane;

Excellent stuff. Please, post as much as you want. You're obviously knowledgeable on the subject, and that's what this thread is for; gathering knowledge.

Another question . . . How many systems are Drunken Styles? From what I've been able to find on that most reliable source that is the internet, I've seen Lau Family Eight Immortals . . . and that's it. Your sifu has exposed you to another Drunken style. I'm guessing that it's not the most common combative art.

Vash

02-13-2004, 08:26 PM

Also, thanks for the link to the plum flower post training article. Very good read.

Well, I ordered that CLF Drunken form tape linked in the inital post. I'm going to watch it soon as it comes in, but I'm not going to start trying to train it 'til I get back full-swing into training. Then, I'm gonna spend about a year learning the form (as much as one can given the circumstances).

Anyway, I'll post a review after I see it.

Xebsball

02-13-2004, 08:33 PM

things i do when im drunk:

smoke
dance
laugh more

Vash

02-13-2004, 09:58 PM

Cool. Thanks. At least I know there is more out there in terms of Drunken instruction. Guess I'm gonna hafta go out of state for it, though.

Gangsterfist

02-15-2004, 06:59 PM

I have only been exposed to drunken animal boxing. My sifu doesn't want to train us in any of that stuff yet. He says a lot of it is not really practical unless you really dedicate yourself to it, and it goes against a lot of what we have trained for in our classes. He wants us to focus on our wing chun and taiji more than anything. So, I will only get bits and pieces from my sifu.

Shaolinlueb

02-15-2004, 07:18 PM

i have a little bit of master hu's drunken form. not that much though.

Vash

02-15-2004, 07:21 PM

Do the styles which incorporate one or more Drunken forms place any particular emphasis on them, or are they regarded as less than essential for fighting?

Gangsterfist

02-16-2004, 08:38 AM

Drunken boxing is designed for combat, there is no doubt about that. The reason I haven't learned much is mainly because of the dynamics and the stances of the art itself. You have to be able to root yourself is akward positions, and non traditional kung fu stances. It can be effective and you could possibly win lots of fights with drunken style. Its just not practical to train it and use it in a fight, because its hard to master and really hard to make it actually combat effective. At least thats the impression I get from everyone who has studied it. Or perhaps they are just reluctant to teach it to anyone else, I am not sure.

Vash

02-16-2004, 09:49 AM

From what I've heard from Sifu Troy Dunwood (http://www.joybotsin.com) it is effective, it just takes a good bit of time to get it down enough to be able to apply it.

Gangsterfist

02-16-2004, 10:52 AM

I never said it was not effective. Its just a lot harder to learn and if you are cross training it with another kung fu it can develope bad habits with your other style of kung fu. It really depends on the person training though I guess. If you can pull it off then more power to ya.

Vash

02-16-2004, 06:49 PM

Indeed. Training two different standup, striking styles probably won't work too well.

Anyone have any reviews of this? (http://www.wle.com/products/b270.html)

Vash

03-01-2004, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by Vash
Choy Lay Fut Drunken Set Article (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=438)

Video for ^ (http://www.leekoonhungkungfu.com/supplies.html)

The video is finally here! I'm gonna watch it tomorrow! Not going to start any type of training on it until several months after I get back 100% into my karate training! Yay!

Gangsterfist

03-02-2004, 08:35 AM

Here go some words of wisdom from a friend of mine who is a drummer in a band. He could never play drunk very well he said. Everytime they would play at a bar and get free drinks he would get drunk and their set would suck. So, he started practicing his drums while drunk, so he could get more proficient at it. Now he can play the drums much better while drunk. Perhaps you should just practice your kung fu drunk eh?

Vash

03-02-2004, 11:01 AM

Well, I finally got a chance to watch it today. Had rather high expectations. And, for the most part, they were met.

The Bad News: Same thing as with any other instructional tape; demonstrations (and applications), but no specific verbal instruction of stances. But, since all is rather easy to see, this is not a big deal.

The Good News: The production quality is high. The demonstrator, Instructor Joe Keit, is obviously quite proficient in the form, and does an excellent job of detailing the form through his slowed movements.

Overall, I'd give this video a 9.0. I was not expecting an indepth, how-to of the Eight Drunken Immortals form, but this came as close as I think a body can to learning a form without an instructor present (:eek:).

And, for the record, here's my expected training routine as relates to this video after I've gotten 100% back into regular training:

There are Eight sections to the form. That's not counting the basic stance work which is detailed by Master Li Siu Hung at the beginning. So, I figure that I can work on the stances for a good six months, then take a step or two from the first section of the form once I've got what I feel is a decent level of proficiency in the stances.

I know I'm gonna catch much in the way of flack for this, and honestly, I'm probably oging to agree with most of it. But, this is something I need to add to my training. I may not be the most able person to apply the lessons contained within the form, but as long as it at least gives me a new angle from which to look at my karate, I'm okay with it.

norther practitioner

03-02-2004, 11:31 AM

Enjoy it bud.. :D

Yeah, you don't have someone there to show you, but there is still some stuff you can learn from it.

Vash

03-02-2004, 11:42 AM

Indeed. When he was doing the form's applications, I noticed something I hadn't seen when he was just demonstrating the form . . . techniques which are nearly identical to a few forms of Isshinryu . . . namely, Kusanku (of Shorinryu origin) and Seiunchin (of Gojuryu origin). The applications he used were nearly identical to those which I have been taught, and which I've seen as part of independent study. Hmmmm . . . this deserves mention in the Ultimate Okinawan Martial Arts Thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28033)

Ooooh. And drunken boxing is mentioned the the perenial text on karate, the Bubishi . . . interesting.

Gangsterfist

03-02-2004, 12:02 PM

Vash,

Good luck in your training of drunken kung fu. I am not a sifu so please do not think I am trying to teach you here. I would just like to give you one practical piece of advice. Be practical with your drunken training. If you want to expand out and cross train then do it. Thats great you are learning new things. However, what you learn from the video should be tested in a controlled manner to see if its practical for you. Just try some techniques here and there when sparring and if you seem to be able to pull them off then train them. If something feels very unnatural and very impractical for you body to perform, then I would say don't worry about it.

It may look cool and seem practical to the master on the video, but its probably not practical for you to use in a real fight.

Vash

03-02-2004, 12:41 PM

Good, practical ideas, Gangsterfist. I'll definetly keep them in mind.

As for the practicallity of the Drunken form, I think that yes, it's gonna be hella hard to apply it to fighting. But, I've heard the same said of Mantis, White Crane, and Hung Gar, and several other kung fu styles. I've seen, though, the ability of the more experienced instructors of these styles fight in the same visual manner as their forms. And they didn't do half bad.

I figure there's a much larger learning curve with this type of training, but the style, once properly understood, could be a most effective one.

I've a few thoughts on the study of forms for combat training (what a heretical thought, but I don't mean it like that), but I don't want to start it here.

Gangsterfist

03-02-2004, 12:55 PM

Well good luck man. I understand your intrest and your thoughts. My sifu's first kung fu he ever took was hung gar and the 5 animals of shaolin. So I have been taught some crane and snake techniques, but he always tells me that are not as practical as others.

Whats even harder is sparring a good white crane boxer. That blew my mind the first time I ever fought someone using crane techniques. Once you get used to it, it doesn't shock you as much.

Let us know how it fairs out.

peace,
GF

Vash

03-04-2004, 09:39 AM

Indeed. Unorthodox techniques and principles can be effective. But, that learning curve is long, depending on how much application/application in sparring you train.

Vash

03-15-2004, 11:55 PM

Drunkard Kung Fu and It's Application (http://www.wle.com/products/b270.html)

Overall, a decent book. Thankfully, it doesn't attempt to get the reader believing the form can be learned from it's pages, only that it represents a snippet of the form.

The applications section was pretty good. Organization could've been improved. Gave a good idea as to how many of the techniques could be interpreted.

Vash

05-08-2004, 08:46 PM

Attack of the Ultimate Drunken, Baby!

Banjos_dad

05-09-2004, 11:45 AM

How's it coming along Vash.

I always like watching drunken style KF in movies, demos etc. whenever possible. Some of those kicks & groundwork are realy somethinng to see.

Vash

05-09-2004, 11:50 AM

Well, I watch the video about once a week ;)

Seriously, though, I'm not healed up yet, but hopefully won't be too much longer.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how certain sections which contain techniques almost identical to my Isshinryu sets flow in relation to those sets. Also, the applications, I'm sure, are gonna be good to work with.

Plus, being able to throw something completely different into our sparring sessions should prove educational.

Vash

06-01-2004, 01:54 PM

Check these out. (http://joybotsin.com/videos.htm)

Moesum

06-01-2004, 01:58 PM

Thanks for the videos, but there nothing special.

Meat Shake

06-01-2004, 02:15 PM

they're.

Cool vids. Thanks for the link.

The Willow Sword

06-01-2004, 02:34 PM

The Applications demos were not very good in my opinion.

the hand and flute sets were okay.

Vash

06-01-2004, 02:46 PM

This is the guy that claims he is the one dude appointed new grandmaster of this style.

Been checking around on this site/school for a few months, haven't really been able to find anything to say "yeah, this is good drunken kung fu."

Of course, that's kindofa heard style to get any solid info on.

Meat Shake

06-01-2004, 06:31 PM

It looks interesting, but as far as fighting goes...
...

...

Brad

06-02-2004, 07:32 AM

I didn't really care for the forms or applications(forms were a bit better than the apps though).

Shaolinlueb

06-02-2004, 08:53 AM

so how many "drunken styles" are there out there?

GunnedDownAtrocity

06-02-2004, 09:02 AM

if you just leave application 4 loop its pretty **** funny.

and sad.

Brad

06-02-2004, 03:19 PM

lol, you're right. It also shows a big pet peave of mine when demonstrating applications... please if anyone decides to film applications and put it on the net, at least make sure the original attack would reach the guy you're supposed to be punching. The defender could've moved forward and still not get hit by that first punch :P

red5angel

06-02-2004, 03:27 PM

crap, I thought this was going to be like a "Party Chicks Gone Wild" type of thread.....:p

mortal

06-02-2004, 04:12 PM

LOLolo I love these guys! The worst stuff I have seen in a while.
He trained everywhere showing he knows alot about nothing.

Troy Dunwood

06-03-2004, 01:47 PM

I couldn't help but take the advantage of passing up a opportunity to converse with fellow martial artist. First Mr. Vast, I don't claim anything, I have all pertinent proof if you care to see I'm in North California Bay Area, I'm not hard to find and am rather taken in by the Chinese community and kung fu community here and as you may know we have a rather large kung fu community in the bay area. My personal friends like chiu chi ling and chu sil kay can atest to this point among others. In reference to the material on our web, it is generally a small insight into what we're about in comparison to others, it is not our goal to teach our skills over the net and as some has made mention, yes those are some of the yet milder skills we use that are added to our website. You see in real drunken kung fu fighting is very unorthodox and very definitive, it is not pretty at all, at the request of many though we've just completed a fighting skills dvd that will truly showcase authentic Lau Family Drunken Eight Immortals Fighting Skills and I promise a learner from any style will be able to find these skills useful to complement with what he or she is learning. And to the general masses I invite you to visit us, ask your questions critique our skills, allow us to show you the effectiveness of the eight immortals style within a friendly exchange of martial skill and maybe then you'll see this kung fu in a different perspective. Believe me as a core choy lee fut, wing chun and hung gar student for over 25years, I have welcomed the effectiveness and simplicity of this style in comparison to other drunken skills and when most see this kung fu they come to claim the same appreciation. May the spirit of Chinese Kung Fu be with us all.

Troy Dunwood
Lau Family Eight Immortals Style
Ying Hung Martial Arts Association
Alameda, California USA

Vash

06-03-2004, 03:33 PM

Mr. Dunwood;

I said "claim" in my post because, though I've conversed with you a bit by email regarding your distance learning courses, when I emailed a few questions regarding your lineage and your position as head of the style, I was given no reply. I believe I inquired in this regard three times.

I do intend to purchase your DVD of the Drunken skills, because research into this particular style is still something which interests me.

Looking forward to the DVD, and hopefully before the summer is out, I'll be able to make it up to Cali.

peace

Troy Dunwood

06-03-2004, 04:18 PM

Our lineage information is located on our history of the Eight Immortals link, there you can find our lineage from wu dan master Yue Ho Lung to myself it is all there. If I have although overlooked your question it was not the intent to do so, but understand i'm corresponding with people all over the world and so this keeps me rather busy along with teaching classes and film production, by the way do you know anyone in hong kong perhaps they can tell you about the documentary that aired on television there that was produced by wing chun sifu leung ting, many of my friends called me from there staing they saw me on t.v., well my friend we'll talk soon.

Troy

Vash

06-03-2004, 04:27 PM

Yeah, I understand stuff like that can get hectic.

No worries.

hasayfu

06-04-2004, 02:51 PM

Just wanted to say that I've met Sifu Troy Dunwood and his understanding of applications is not captured by these videos. Especially within his drunken style.

As a side note, it's always hard to demonstrate good applications without the feel. Even my sifu, Wing Lam's apps are criticized

I look forward to the DVD.

Mediocrity

06-04-2004, 07:25 PM

heh I just wanted to say that the flute form looked pretty crappy. From my understanding you dont really thwack someone with a flute...

But, take my opinions with a grain of salt.

Troy Dunwood

06-06-2004, 09:57 AM

Our flute form has more to do with joint locks. But then again our style is unorthodox simply meaning there are no boundaries, this is what sets us apart from the rest. At times we will, stab, (thwack), pierce, dot, smash etc if the situation calls for it, You see Mediocrity, real drunken fighting is not bound by this or that only what is successful.

Troy Dunwood

Mediocrity

06-06-2004, 11:39 AM

I fail to see what you mean by "no boundaries" or your style is not bound by this or that.

I was simply stating that it wasnt impressive because I see someone holding a short flute in the middle and swinging it, rather than piercing. I dont want to argue semantics because I wasnt there, but it honestly just looked like something I'd try to do if I had drunk a good amount and decided I thought I knew drunken kung fu... and just stumbled in circles.

It may be your intention for it to be deceptive, and you succeeded, but it just looked like a short guy stumbling in circles with a stick. But like I said, I don't really know anything but what I perceive from the videos... so take it with a grain of salt, or less than that if you please.

Troy Dunwood

06-06-2004, 03:48 PM

To be able to converse with someone is a good thing, but to put it in perspective, imagine this, the circling type footwork is actually used as in close sweeping technique, the actual movement of the flute is to slip and thrust against the front and or side region of the neck area, with other variable continuation movements. By the way thats pretty cool, you couldn't figure out the use of our skills.

Troy

Vash

06-06-2004, 04:08 PM

When will you be offering the aforementioned DVD for sale?

Also, before your discussion board was discontinued, the user called joybotsin mentioned repeatedly a "distance learning course." I was wondering, what was involved in that, aside from just your video.

Thanks in advance,

Cody

Troy Dunwood

06-06-2004, 11:20 PM

Yes my friend, we are in full swing now that we have a professional film crew behind us, that was our draw back in times past, our first disc will be fighting skill, followowed by our four heavenly kings fist for starters

mortal

06-07-2004, 11:37 AM

I hope you weren't insulted by my in initial post. You seem pretty sincere and you do have training in other effective arts.

From what I know Drunken style is a artistic form of kungfu. It is done to bring your athletism to another level. I honestly do not beleive those moves could be truly applicable in any situation. Especially against another decent martial artist. Not only that the level of flexability and skill was not that precise. I know the movements are supposed to be hidden and random but in forms training the movements should still be on point.

Having trained in other very martial arts why would you really believe this stuff to be truly effective? Is it to sell videos or get more stundents? Why not just tell them it is artistic and thats it?
Do you find American students only want to practice something if they believe it is good for fighting?

Again I mean no disrespect. Just having a hard time figuring it out.

Troy Dunwood

06-08-2004, 04:08 AM

First of all, our style is called Eight Immortals and not drunken style, although we do teach drunken skills. And as far as effectiveness is concerned, we're pretty happy with it and it's capabilities.

Troy

P.S. As I stated earlier we are always happy for a friendly exchange of martial skills to show the effectiveness of our style.

mortal

06-08-2004, 09:53 AM

I appreciate your response.

I really don't feel the need to test anyones skills. I formed my own opinions just from watching the vids.

Friendly exchanges never end friendly. Lets just hope we never have to exchange anything but words.

Good luck with your training.

Peace

Banjos_dad

06-29-2004, 03:39 PM

<r e s e t>

How now?

SPJ

06-29-2004, 07:00 PM

5 animals sets are among one of the oldest Shaolin Kungfu.

Drunken boxing did have its own characteristic steps and stances.

The other big part is called Dit Tang Quan. Which is fighting on the ground. Your body is on the ground, you may kick, sweep and scissor cut and ---.

2 Common ways to get up. Black Dragon circling a Pillar. (Wu Long Jiao Zhu). Coy fish flipping (Li Yu Da Ting).

Make your own ****tail from above. And add your own school.

Have a good drink.

Drunken Crane and drunken Tai Ji are my favorites.

Drunken monkey is popular, too.

Seriously, one has to practice some steps and stances. One may also need to practice DTQ.

Best of luck.

Deuce Diggler

08-04-2004, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
Here's the question of the day:
What are the chances you could apply Drunken Boxing in a real situation? Not bashing, just curious of its effectiveness. I, too, wanted to learn DB, but kind of forgot about it as I progressed in my training.

I study Eight Immortals Kung Fu under Troy Dunwood of the Ying Hung Kung Fu Club in Oakland, CA and it is very effective.

You learn how to shift your weight around quickly and juke your opponent (similar to football).

Keep in mind that most of the kung fu that people associate with the word "drunken" is the heavily exaggerated appearance from modern wushu and Jackie Chan & the movies.

We don't use those heavily exaggerated movements, but we do shift our weight around with a more realistic approach.

Deuce Diggler

08-04-2004, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Vash
Shane;

Excellent post. Gotta question.

Do you have any knowledge of/experience with the folks at Joytbotsin (http://www.joybotsin.com) ?

Another question;

You know of any Drunken practitioners in or near Arkansas?

Again, good read. Links were very interesting. Looking forward to hearing from you again.

I have knowledge and experience with the folks at www.joybotsin.com, I am a student of the Ying Hung Kung Fu Club.

Troy Dunwood is an excellent teacher.

Ask away and I'll answer your questions.

Deuce Diggler

08-04-2004, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Vash
Another thought . . .

Why are there so many styles of kung fu which contain a drunken form? Do these forms share a common ancestry? Are they influenced by a particular person?

Or, were they developed independently, as much as martial arts of the same national origin can be?

Oh, ttt.

I really can't speak for all of the drunken kung fu out there (there's everything from contemporary wushu to traditional sets of many different kung fu styles), but I will speak for the Lau Family Eight Immortals Style.

Lau Family Eight Immortals ancestry is traced back to Yue Ho Lung of Wu Tang Temple through generations of the Lau Family.

Many peopole use the name Eight Immortals, but that is a common term used throughout China. Everything with the name Eight Immortals attached to it is not related.

Deuce Diggler

08-04-2004, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Gangsterfist
Drunken boxing is designed for combat, there is no doubt about that. The reason I haven't learned much is mainly because of the dynamics and the stances of the art itself. You have to be able to root yourself is akward positions, and non traditional kung fu stances. It can be effective and you could possibly win lots of fights with drunken style. Its just not practical to train it and use it in a fight, because its hard to master and really hard to make it actually combat effective. At least thats the impression I get from everyone who has studied it. Or perhaps they are just reluctant to teach it to anyone else, I am not sure.

It is very practical to train in drunken boxing. Just make sure the drunken boxing you study is rooted in applicable techniques. Much of the exaggerated drunken boxing out there isn't based on martial application. A good traditional drunken boxing teacher will train you in the application of your movements and not focus on appearances.

Any realistic fighting technique works well to complement any style, regardless of what your core style is.

Deuce Diggler

08-04-2004, 01:36 PM

I have seen Troy Dunwood in action first hand (and this was before I becaome a student of his) and I'd have to say that his fighiting ability is amazing. I was so impressed by his martial ability that I sought him out as a teacher. I spent 3 months trying to become a student of his and I am a guy who was never interested in learning a disciplined fighting style.

Let me give some insight on the sample only application videos that people are criticizing. I was there.

When the video was transferred from DV tape to mpeg Troy moved so fast that the mpeg conversion couldn't capture each movement clearly. To overcome that, the camera man had to have him do it in a step by step approach . Otherwise it looked like Troy was teleporting when the clips were converted to mpeg. (The conversion was dropping frames.)

jpaton

08-05-2004, 07:41 AM

Hi all.

I used to take wing chun right were those videos were taken, the lake merrit ( or china town ) bart station. I can attest to the fact that Troy: has been teaching in chinatown a long time, seems to be well respected in the neighborhood, looks like he knows what he's doing up close and was cool to other schools that were being taught just yards away.

as an aside if you were to go to that park, for lack of a better word, any morning you could find up to and possibly more then a hundred people doing all kinds of traditional and nontraditional chinese martial arts. i used to go up there and just sit and watch. as Troy alluded to the bay area is rich in chinese martial arts.

-jonathan

Hakaisha

04-02-2005, 12:55 PM

I practice Tiger Crane Boxing, but have always been interested in learning Drunken Boxing. There are no dojos that teach it here in Modesto, so if anyone could help me find resources so that I can teach myself it would be greatly appreciated. Yes, I know that most people say that you can't learn a martial art without an instructor, but hey, I really have nothing to lose by trying and everything to gain.

Brad

04-02-2005, 03:51 PM

http://www.officialeightimmortals.com is the only kungfu place I know of claiming to teach drunken as it's own martial art (and not a more advanced form within another system). I don't know much of anything about them, but there's a trailer for their instructional videos on the website so you can make up your own mind pretty easilly whether you think it'd be worth it :)

cerebus

04-02-2005, 04:38 PM

Also, if you're interested in just learning a drunken form, both Northern Praying Mantis and Choy Lay Fut have drunken forms in them.

Hakaisha

04-02-2005, 04:54 PM

Actually, I was most interested in learning the Eight Immortals system.

Ground Dragon

04-02-2005, 05:33 PM

I mean no disrespect to those who teach Eight Immortals or any other drunken style, as a complete system in its own. But, what are other people's thoughts on this? I had always heard that drunken wasn't a style unto itself.
I'm not questioning their lineage, just curious. I find it interesting.

And as a side note, does anyone have any comparisons as to their forms and training as compared to other 8 immortal forms?

Hakaisha

04-02-2005, 08:52 PM

From what I understand, Eight Immortals is a complete drunken system developed by the Lau family. Here's a link to their history page. http://officialeightimmortals.com//history.htm

Anyways, my problem is the lack of diversity in Modesto. Everyone teaches either Karate or Tae Quan Doe, which is really annoying. I can't afford to commute either due to gas prices. The closest city that teaches Eight Immortals is either San Fransisco or Oakland, niether of which is close. So as you can see, I'm better off teaching myself. So now I'm begging....Please help me!

cerebus

04-02-2005, 09:23 PM

Well, there's a book and companion video by Leung Ting on Drunken Boxing if you're really intent on teaching yourself.

Brad

04-02-2005, 09:25 PM

You've got the link to the website selling the videos allready, and a trailer on there. For their Lau familly drunken boxing (which seems to be what you want) that's the only resource right there. What else do you need help with? :p

Hakaisha

04-02-2005, 09:31 PM

I know, but any additional information would be helpfull. ^^ I am severely strapped for cash, so I would like to get as much information as possible before I go out and spend money on videos and books.

Sow Choy

04-13-2005, 02:38 PM

If you are interested in the Drunken Form, check out Choy Lay Fut's version in video or DVD

DVD's are now available at www.leekoonhungkungfu.com

I lost many emails of people requesting DVD's so moderators, i hope you don't mind me posting here...

go to :

www.leekoonhungkungfu.com

or ask if available at:

www.martialartsmart.com

The prices are the same as the videos, and there are some deals if you buy 2 or all 5...

Check it out and thanks!!!

-disciple-

12-21-2005, 09:09 AM

Alright, so I'm watching The Legend of Drunken Master, and now it's my favorite movie. Now I understand that it's just a movie, and you don't really get drunk when performing it, so dont get started on that. This isn't a troll post, but a request for information.

Now im seriously interested in Drunken Boxing, not practicing it, but just learning about it etc.I really havn't read or seen much information about it on these forums, so I was wondering if anyone could tell me about it. Also, are there any reliable sites for information about drunken kungfu?

Does anyone still practice Drunken Kungfu forms, and if so, who are they? When did it first "appear" in China, and, is it known who developed it? Any information would be appreciated, thanks.

ZhuiQuan

12-21-2005, 11:02 AM

Do searches for "eight drunken immortals" or simply "eight immortals" or "eight immortals of taoism" or "eight taoist immortals". Or look for books in a library or book store.

The story of the eight immortals and what each immortal represents in the system is really cool. I love drunken boxing, drunken staff, etc. I think the movements look great the way they flow and the way the body moves when practicing it. I haven't learned it yet, but I know I will start learning some things in at least 5 years (no reason to rush into it or skip anything, I shouldn't have to explain the importance of basics)

This link is of a school in Ohio, they put up a pretty interesting explaination:

http://www.ohioshaolin.com/8_immortals_drunken_boxing.htm

And of course, wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunken_boxing

-----
I don't know how accurate these paged describe it, so i'd suggest reading a book.

Mortal1

12-21-2005, 11:29 AM

Drunken kungfu is hard to explain to someone who doesn't practice kungfu. Here goes nothing. Basically this is a higher style of kungfu. Usually it exists in many kungfu styles at higher levels of training.
What makes it higher level is the fact that it takes extraordinary levels of athletism to even learn the movements. It takes hard worked kungfu basics over years. You have to stay loose and relaxed through all the movements. This is harder then you might think. The movements are meant to develop you as a kungfu player. Many people say this is not a martial style. I pretty much agree. But it is meant to make the body limber and stronger. And to make your movements more fluid and relaxed. Those things indirectly help you to be a more formidable opponent.

JamesC

12-21-2005, 01:05 PM

I will learn it in my style eventually.

Some things that I always figured you got out of it were the ability to strike while off balance and to disguise your movements.

Then again, i've never trained it so I am only speaking of what i've observed.

Troy Dunwood is a member here. I believe he teaches Eight Drunken Immortals. I don't know what his new username is though.

Dark Knight

12-22-2005, 06:38 AM

Sifu John Allan at Green Dragon Studios teaches a nice Eight Drunkem Immortals form. They consider it an advanced form. Get his catalog and order it or search ebay for Green Dragon Studios.

He is not on the internet, you will find his ads in Kung Fu magazines

He is not on DVD, only VHS,

Everyone I have talked to gives his tapes high reviews.

-disciple-

12-22-2005, 08:30 AM

Will, i wouln't go as far as to say i know nothing of kung fu. I do practice wing chun, although i am still in my first 2 months of training

Chizica

12-22-2005, 08:59 AM

You can see an example of it here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8659015525088228959&q=kung+fu

lotus kick

12-22-2005, 05:20 PM

this is stupid, drunken boxing is noting more then basic bio-chem.

When Alchohol enters the body. it attack the nerve centre of the barin and makes the body more relaxed and feel no pain. you can notice this by going to a local bar. All the drunk people are happy to be your friend there, even if they had a bad day. boos also impairs your higher logic. so you will think less and react faster.

Alto, Alchohol attacks the brain, it don't attack the memory cells. so you still have all the skills you have from training. Combining Alchohol with the knowledge of combat and you'll have a "Berserker". A guy that attack first and take names later.

There you have it, drunken boxing in a nut shell. You want to master drunken boxing, just get your self drunk. Really Drunk.

greensage22

12-22-2005, 05:23 PM

A bottle of fuki plum wine will get you just about perfect. drunk but alert still.

TenTigers

12-22-2005, 10:51 PM

many of the techniques in Joi Bot Sien are actually throws, and grappling techniques-predates BJJ. If you were to mimic doing a suplex,you would look like you are "lifting the wine pot". This is simply one application, also inclused are various sweeps, sacrifice throws, leg and neck scissors such as the triangle choke. You simply need to examine the forms.
I cannot speak for Sifu Dunwood's Joi Bot Sien, as I don't know it. I am only speaking from the limited experiences that I have been exposed to.

Green Cloud

12-23-2005, 12:43 AM

Tis thread is right up my alley. Youre both right, but yor forgetting the 3rd key element in Drunking boxing. MOMENTUM, by using offbalencing you acheve more powerin your step. The 4rth element is centifical force and counter balance. AS you take steps wich are rythmicaly balaced for example over exagerating your cross stance from right to left by swinging into the movements. That creates momentum, and what keeps you from falling is the counterbalencing that the arms create. That's why the left hand in the sword finger position like when youre using a gim,and the cup is usualy done with the right hand wich is the power hand. The left handed sword finger position is their to balance out the right to create power. Just like a seesaw. As your generating your power from the offbalancing of your footwork what keeps one from falling is centrificall force wich happens from twisting and turning. Twisting and turning is created by performing twisting stances. This creates coiling and uncoiling and also helps with rooting like a cork screw. This cork screw action helps to stop you as your speeding into a turn and allows you to uncoil instantly even though it apears as if one is off balance. Not to mention taht it is very hard to hit a spining target. These movements create powerfull wipping strikes. twisting turning and falling allow the oponent to perform various throws with speed and power. I'd be glad to work on these theories with you guys anytime since this is my area of expertice.

shaolinkid

04-21-2006, 05:06 PM

Hi, Hakaisa
Watching and learning Kung Fu from DVD & Video tape is an option, better yet, you may want to go and take a class....Check this out !

Northern Shaolin Kung Fu
Red Dragon Club
416 I Street
Modesto, CA. 95351
<drakcolman@yahoo.com>

Class Schedule....Monday, Wednesday & Friday evenings 7:30 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.
(Group Instruction) ...........(No Contrracts)

Traditional Chinese Martial Arts for health, fitness & self-defense.
Classical form routines involving empty hand & weapon skills, which utilize striking and kicking methods.
Methods emphasize repelling, restraining, neutralizing tactics and strategies. Health benefits are regulated through correct breathing for improving cardio vascular system. Strength and flexibility exercises make up a portion of class time to aide students in developing skills.
Training drills are offered to reinforce and sharpen fundamentals. Self defense routines are presented to prepare students to respond quickly in neutralizing attackers. Apparatus training with focus pads, wooded dummy and bag work further enhances students knowledge on focusing power; developing accuracy in delivering strikes and kicks. Balance, timing and positioning is emphazes throughout workouts to improve coordination in applying technics. Tradition & philosophy are intrinsic features of developing traditional martial arts skills taught at our school.

jethro

04-21-2006, 06:55 PM

the vids I have seen on it always seem like the person is somewhat off balance. This causes the opponent to strike having know idea what the drunken stylist is going to do. His movements always seem to be out of control, btu the fact that they look that way even though the practitioner is under control really makes it deadly. I have seen too many movies with drunken style in many movies and was surprised to see people practice it in real life so well. It is not as wobbly but very effective looking. The story I heard was a shaolin monk who worked in the library was caught looking at the books like he did every night, when he was caught he was told that he ws not alloweed to read the secret kung fu books, he was drunk and beat down everybody, I know of only 2 stories, but that one is certainly more believable, though not as cool as the eight immortals. BTW, does anyone know where I could get an 8 immortals mythology book?

CaptinPickAxe

04-21-2006, 07:21 PM

Make one up...

It's about as effective.

Chief Fox

07-06-2006, 08:36 AM

I train with my sifu twice a month. Each session lasts about 1.5 hours. He then gives me things to work on, on my own and with his other students. There are 4 of us all together and we work on forms and drill applications together.

A typical session with my sifu is:
- warm up.
- review forms.
- 2 man applications and drills.

My sifu's main style, at least I always thought his main style, is 7 star Praying Mantis kung fu. The forms he has taught us and all the applications he's shown us have all been from the Praying Mantis style.

So two sessions ago he starts having us drill these drunken style applications. All I can say is... THAT STUFF IS COOL!

My sifu is so loose, it really looks like he's drunk when he's doing this stuff.

He explained that it's a very delicate balance game and how you should never fully be off balance. He also explained how you move with your opponent. In some situations you're actually leaning on or putting your weight on your opponent.

The style is very loose, fast and deceptive. I'm really liking it so far.

So anyone else out there study drunken style?

chud

07-06-2006, 09:26 AM

So anyone else out there study drunken style?

No, but I drank beer last night. Does that count? :D

Seriously though, sounds like cool stuff. Cool that you're enjoying things with your new Sifu.

GeneChing

07-06-2006, 09:35 AM

Here's some resources:
The Sword and the Chalice: Master Zhang Anji Reveals the Secrets of Drunken Sword (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=568)*
Drunken Kung Fu by Calvin Chen (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=129)
Drunken Staff (http://www.martialartsmart.net/pr-gs004.html)
The Drunkard Kungfu & its Application Plus the Drunken Broadsword (http://www.martialartsmart.net/prltv2.html)
Drunken Fist (http://www.martialartsmart.net/pr-gs003.html)
The Drunken Form of Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu (http://www.martialartsmart.net/prsh003.html)
Drunken Sword (http://www.martialartsmart.net/pr-gs005.html)
Drunken Monkey Kungfu (http://www.martialartsmart.net/b45eb14.html)
The Drunken Master (http://www.martialartsmart.net/dvd100081.html)

*Unfortunately I published my Shaolin drunken article in another magazine back when I was a freelancer....:o

David Jamieson

07-06-2006, 10:20 AM

projectile chi puking knockout blasts are the highest level of this style.

:p

Chief Fox

07-06-2006, 10:29 AM

No, but I drank beer last night. Does that count? :D

Seriously though, sounds like cool stuff. Cool that you're enjoying things with your new Sifu.
Close.

Yeah, training with my new sifu was one of the best decissions I've ever made. Thanks for the kind words.

Gene, thanks for all the info. Plenty of reading for me to do on these long boring days at work. :D

GunnedDownAtrocity

07-06-2006, 10:28 PM

i really like mma, but sometimes i just miss moving.

most mma guys dont understand that.

BaKu

11-07-2007, 09:38 AM

I'm think about takeing on drunken boxing head core but i wanted to know can drunken boxing be used in a street fight and win.

MightyB

11-07-2007, 09:40 AM

Answer: NO

MasterKiller

11-07-2007, 09:41 AM

can drunken boxing be used in a street fight and win.

No .

sanjuro_ronin

11-07-2007, 09:42 AM

Depends on the booze, I once saw a bottle of JD used very well in a fight.

golden arhat

11-07-2007, 11:48 AM

no

no it cant

Shaolinlueb

11-07-2007, 11:52 AM

depends if you have a gun or not. and or wrist control.

hey if it works for jackie chan then it can work for you.

lkfmdc

11-07-2007, 11:58 AM

KKM is coming to town!

Hi KKM

now, tell us about scientific tai chi! really! :eek:

BruceSteveRoy

11-07-2007, 11:58 AM

i am thinking of taking drunken sitting hardcore. its like drunken boxing but without the boxing (err that is to say falling down) or delusions of usefullness.

doug maverick

11-07-2007, 12:18 PM

real drunken boxing is not for fighting at all actually and is just a nei gung excerise, after jackie chans drunken boxing film alot of kung fu styles started adding it. there's even an eight drunken boxing form in hung ga. but know it can;t be used for fighting and even remeber a video being posted of a karate guy beating the crap out of this guy using drunken boxing. sorry man its only for show and its not a system so who would you learn it from??? just asking cause last time i looked it was just a form.

Takuan

11-07-2007, 01:08 PM

depends if you have a gun or not. and or wrist control.

Derrick Comedy right?

"First I obtain wrist control. Now I pull out my gun. No crack for you today my friend!"

Mook Jong

11-07-2007, 01:34 PM

ngokfei

11-07-2007, 03:05 PM

Personally haven't heared of a 100% Drunken Style. There are Drunken forms/techniques in many Traditional Styles.

such as: 7 Star mantis, Eagle Claw, Lama, Hung Ga's Drunken Lohan Sequence, etc.

Now as to fighting applications, of course.

One has to 1st be strong in the 4 ranges of combat.

drunken skill usually relies on balance, flexibility and softness into hardness. I would say a very evasive .

Acrobatics is not present in always.

Shaolinlueb

11-07-2007, 10:32 PM

Derrick Comedy right?

"First I obtain wrist control. Now I pull out my gun. No crack for you today my friend!"

exactly what im talking about ;)

Laukarbo

11-08-2007, 02:03 AM

you are all wrong !!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDHXXSiMvyc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kwdEJKgIMM

:D:D:D

Goldenmane

11-08-2007, 04:04 AM

I'm think about takeing on drunken boxing head core but i wanted to know can drunken boxing be used in a street fight and win.

Simple answer? No.

Not so simple answer: Anything may be possible. In order for drunken boxing to be of any use in a real "street fight" you would need: to have a good teacher, who was teaching good stuff (and your chances of finding this are, to say the least, slim); what I can only call a natural talent for doing stupid sh!t; a serious amount of time and determination (you would need to spend an ungodly amount of time training); a well-developed acrobatic ability (which includes strength, dexterity, and flexibility - you need these things before you start training in drunken); access to well-trained people to train against (without which no-one develops fighting skill); and an insane amount of luck.

Oh, and an ability to not get hurt doing incredibly stupid sh!t.

And that is the quick, basic, and far from complete list. Which can translate simply as: don't bother.

Unless you can, in all seriousness, say that you fulfill all of these requirements.

Laukarbo

11-08-2007, 06:30 AM

well, to me drunken boxing doesnt need acrobatic..and its maybe just a concept not specific movements..like holding the bottle and cup...:rolleyes:
I once saw a guy taking out 2 guys..we didnt see what happened before..what we saw was a pretty drunk guy who had beef with a bunch of guys in front of a club..the drunk guy hardly could stand straight..when 2 of the guys came close to attack him..this drunk guy all of the sudden went straight into them and knocked them both down. with controlled force..just using normal jabs and straight punches ..it didnt look like anything whether boxing or martial arts..he got those 2 guys by surprise..and then he was sober again..so he obviously just played being drunk..:cool:

now thats for me what could be considered drunken fist...
yall need to forget about the movies and shiiit..

Goldenmane

11-09-2007, 06:07 AM

Lucas

11-09-2007, 06:57 PM

Given the extent at which many Chinese men drink to, its possibly the whole drunken thing just is an attempt at learning how to fight while you are drunk.

guy1: "Man last night I got my ass handed to me at the bar, and I know kungfu!"

guy2: "learn to use your kungfu while your drunk!"

guy1: "No Sh!t, thats not a bad idea" " hey, wanna get drunk and spar?"

guy2: "HELL YES!"

Shaolin Wookie

11-10-2007, 06:47 AM

Well, despite the fact the dude who posted originally was completely trolling, yes, drunken boxing can be used in a fight.

Seriously, any system that teaches punches, kicks, throws, and grappling can be used in a fight. Hey, what a coincidence! Drunken boxing teaches punches, kicks, throws, and grappling! Oh my god! It can't be possible.

Unfortunately, all you guys see is stumbling around, flopping around, 360 "flying dragon" kicks that land on the ground, instead of combinations on the feet, a variety of strikes, methods of extension and evasion, rhythms, etc. (I would say this is because most of you have only ever seen PRC wushu BS drunken styles that are more about dancing and acrobatics, rather than body control and striking combos--which is true--but then that discussion would have to occur over on the infamous thread). All I have is an elementary drunken boxing form, but my system teaches 8 Immortals.

MasterKiller

11-10-2007, 06:52 AM

Seriously, any system that teaches punches, kicks, throws, and grappling can be used in a fight. Hey, what a coincidence! Drunken boxing teaches punches, kicks, throws, and grappling! Oh my god! It can't be possible.

You can use a carrot to block a bullet, but that doesn't mean it will.

Shaolin Wookie

11-10-2007, 07:19 AM

C'mon......if you train with someone and you do drunken boxing, it's the same as any fighting. You punch, you kick, you move, you dodge, you throw, you grapple. What's the difference? I know...the whole drunken, stumbling around thing. But that's just the difference between someone who's trying to live out a movie fantasy vs. someone who's fighting. LOL.....the Kyoshukin v. Drunken Boxing video on Youtube is a perfect example. You get two guys stumbling around, getting smashed up (well, the second guy did. The first guy pulled all his kicks, and when he got kicked in the head, he was often pulling a kick to the groin or knee, so I'd say he just lacked killer instinct...LOL.....

But seriously. Why they stumbled around with predictable rhythm, I don't know. I can see how its mobility functions well. It's not unlike capoeira, and say what you will, the ginga teaches you how to realign your body at an advantageous angle, and kick your leg out of harm's way in the blink of an eye, and put yourself right back into range in another blink.

I know how to punch, kick, and throw. I can do them sober. I can do them while stumbling. What's the difference, except aesthetics? Sure, I like those aesthetics, and that's part of why I want to learn it, but really, what's the difference?

Why do they train for extreme felxibility? For body control and strength conditioning. I remember Frank Shamrock practicing those same movements in some promo, talking about body control....LOL....not that he's the greatest or most likeable MMA guy, but he could whoop any one of our asses.

Shaolin Wookie

11-10-2007, 07:20 AM

You can use a carrot to block a bullet, but that doesn't mean it will.

If it's a kevlar carrot, it will.

Tai-Lik

11-12-2007, 07:59 AM

Baku if your really serious about drunken boxing you should study this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9OJv0IeSLw

mickey

11-12-2007, 08:32 AM

Greetings,

If you are serious about Drunken boxing or fighting in that way, try Western boxing. It has the bobs and weaves as well.

mickey

ittokaos

11-12-2007, 10:09 AM

Yes, of course it can work in a street fight. I suppose that one would have to work really hard to get it to work but it is still a possibility.

**** near anything has a chance or working on the street. It really depends on what's going on at the time. I personally have never met anyone really good at drunken boxing but I am not foolish enough to sya that it doesn't work just because I haven't seen it.

Hardwork108

01-10-2009, 07:19 PM

Here is an interesting Drunken Kungfu form. It seems that the form reflects the fact that this style has aspects that address groundfighting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBBE4JjBrO8&feature=related

HW108

PS. Sorry if this was posted before.

golgo

01-11-2009, 05:59 AM

TenTigers

01-11-2009, 12:05 PM

hakka jai

01-11-2009, 01:38 PM

hi Guys,
Is there any TCMA standalone drunkards system that really exist??.

cheers
hakka jai :)

Hardwork108

01-11-2009, 05:16 PM

this is simply the contemporary wu-shu version of drunken boxing. It is a performance set and not Joi Bot Sien-Eight Drunken Immortals, which although is a drunken fist set, contains many fighting techniques, including strikes and ground techniques. If you want to see authentic JBS, you need to look at CLF, 7 star mantis, and Bak Hok P'ai, not Contemporary Wu-Shu, which borrowed moves from JBS. Do not confuse outwar appearances with content.

To me this set did contain some fighting techniques and I did like its performance. However, your point is taken and thank you.:)

Is there a video link with a Joi Bot Sien-Eight Drunken Immortals set that you would recommend for me to have a look at.

Hardwork108

01-11-2009, 05:22 PM

....Saw a guy make a lot of money once in Saigon beating up Marines with CLF's drunken boxing.

That sounds fascinating! Can you give us some more details and background to this story. I am sure most of us kung fu practitioners will find the facts interesting and I am certain that this story will be an eye-opener for some people here (I still don´t know what they are doing in this forum) who believe that kung fu does not apply to real life combat situations.

HW8

TenTigers

01-11-2009, 06:20 PM

Joi Bot Sien is a textbook of groundfighting. Leg scissors, sweeps, takedowns, throws, sacrifice throws, suplexes, triangles, armbars, etc., are all contained within the movements. If you know what to look for, it's right there in front of you, although not so much in the wu-shu versions, but there is some. If you look at JBS, you would think it's a BJJ Kata! LOL!
(watch, now someone is going to read this and put out an article in the magazines:rolleyes:)
It's funny when people say that Gung-Fu doesn't have groundfighting. Look up Dog Boxing (no, not the one with my dog!) Di Tang Men Grand Earth Boxing as well. BJJ didn't invent groundfighting-although they have refined it.

Hardwork108

01-11-2009, 06:34 PM

Joi Bot Sien is a textbook of groundfighting. Leg scissors, sweeps, takedowns, throws, sacrifice throws, suplexes, triangles, armbars, etc., are all contained within the movements. If you know what to look for, it's right there in front of you, although not so much in the wu-shu versions, but there is some.
(watch, now someone is going to read this and put out an article in the magazines:rolleyes:)

It is more likely that a pseudo kungfu-ist (or as I sometimes call them a Glorified Kickboxer) will read this and post here telling us that "there is no ground fighting in kung fu", or "Gracie is king" or "BJJ/MMA is better", "more functional" etc. ;)

And you can almost bet that he will have spent a zillion years practicing a zillion different fighting arts (including a few years of "kung fu" with god knows who), but will of course consider himself qualified to give implied "expert" advice on kung fu subjects.:rolleyes:

HW108 :)

punchdrunk

01-11-2009, 06:43 PM

Hardwork108

01-11-2009, 07:02 PM

Kansuke

01-11-2009, 07:07 PM

Hardwork108

01-11-2009, 07:23 PM

What is all this "glorified kickboxer" stuff about?

Why ask a question when you already know the answer?

taai gihk yahn

01-11-2009, 07:26 PM

there is a good interesting article in the nov/dec issue of kungfu tai chi by Jake Burroughs (Tim Cartmell student) about xing yi's approach to surviving ground fighting scenarios. It also comments on ground fighting in kung fu in general, check it out you'd like it guys.

Tim Cartmell, BTW, has a BB in BJJ...and will be the first to tell you that TCMA, when it comes to groundfighting, is a bit behind the curve in comparison to things like sambo, BJJ, judo, etc.

Hardwork108

01-11-2009, 07:38 PM

Well that is it, let us all give up practicing kung fu and start learning BJJ. :rolleyes:

taai gihk yahn

01-11-2009, 07:40 PM

It is more likely that a pseudo kungfu-ist (or as I sometimes call them a Glorified Kickboxer) will read this and post here telling us that "there is no ground fighting in kung fu", or "Gracie is king" or "BJJ/MMA is better", "more functional" etc. ;)

And you can almost bet that he will have spent a zillion years practicing a zillion different fighting arts (including a few years of "kung fu" with god knows who), but will of course consider himself qualified to give implied "expert" advice on kung fu subjects.:rolleyes:

HW108 :)

of course there is groundfighting in TCMA; JBS (in various styles) is one example; Dog Boxing is another; certainly shuai jiao does ground work;
however, in most cases, groundfighting in TCMA is focused on creating the opportunity to get back up on your feet as opposed to submitting someone - my guess is that this has a lot to do with the fact that "traditional" CMA was primarily weapons based, and that spending time on the ground during a weapon melee was probably not such a great idea;

the thing is though, that when most people you fight are geared towards the same thing - getting back up on their feet - then the relative skill level on the ground is going to be less advanced, because no one is really practicing ground grappling that much; of course, again, if one isn't interested in staying on the ground, that's fine - the only "problem" is if one comes up against a skilled grappler who might be pretty good at not letting you get back up on your feet, and you haven't had the chance to practie aginst that level of skill, you might find yourself in a tight spot;

at this point, hands down, the people doing the most advanced groundwork (meaning staying on the ground) are BJJ, judo, sambo and wrestling; SC also, but the emphasis is mostly on standing throwing; one critical aspect of these arts are that they are all based on practicing primarily against resisting opponents; the previously mentioned TCMA ground stuff, while extant in the forms, is often not practiced (assuming it is at all) in a way that allows the practitioner to really experience what it is like to have a skilled grappler get ahold of you;

I think people like Tim Cartmell are really the best thing that has happened to TCMA in a long time: he is someone with high level skill in so-called "internal" arts (although he will be the first to tell you that this distinction is bogus), and a BJJ BB, which has enabled him to evolve the standup TCMA in a way that makes it applicable in a context that those old "masters" really didn't want to get into (can't imagine Dong rolling around on the ground with Yang during their meet-up - that would have been funny...);

taai gihk yahn

01-11-2009, 07:40 PM

Well that is it, let us all give up practicing kung fu and start learning BJJ. :rolleyes:

just can't give that pr1cky little attitude of yours a rest ever, can you?

taai gihk yahn

01-11-2009, 07:43 PM

If you look at JBS, you would think it's a BJJ Kata!
actually, CTS showed me and M.P. a very cool 2-person ground set with some things that looked rather JBS-like - it was actually one of the closest things to full-out ground grappling that I've seen in TCMA to date...

Hardwork108

01-11-2009, 08:24 PM

of course there is groundfighting in TCMA; JBS (in various styles) is one example; Dog Boxing is another; certainly shuai jiao does ground work;
Correct.

however, in most cases, groundfighting in TCMA is focused on creating the opportunity to get back up on your feet

That would be because once you have killed your opponent on the ground it is pointless to lie down beside him, unless you happen to be in possession of a good book and that there were no other enemies around to do you harm.

Furthermore, lying down next to a dead man with no apparent reason may make your battlefield comrades think that you were suffering from some kind of gay perversion.

as opposed to submitting someone -
There are more ways than one of defeating an enemy on the ground, but to have those options open one has to have really trained hard at kung fu in an authentic manner as opposed to the more popular McDonald´s variety.

And Real kung fu training will reduce the chance of one being taken down to the ground in the first place!

my guess is that this has a lot to do with the fact that "traditional" CMA was primarily weapons based, and that spending time on the ground during a weapon melee was probably not such a great idea;

Correct!

However, it is no good to stay on the ground in any multiple opponent situation either hence the need to get up quickly having FIRST disabled the opponent on the ground as one does not want to risk him clinging to one when one is under attack from others.

the thing is though, that when most people you fight are geared towards the same thing - getting back up on their feet - then the relative skill level on the ground is going to be less advanced,

Did you know that the wrestling arts were part of Chinese martial arts long before kung fu; during the kung fu era and up to today? This means that all major kung fu stylists foresaw the need for addressing ground fighting scenarios.

So if the McKung fu schools of today don´t address this then the problem is with them, the schools and not with the TCMAs!!!

because no one is really practicing ground grappling that much;

The key point here is that the techniques are there and the arts address the ground fighting scenario. It is up to the individual schools/sifus to train them and these are trained at my Wing Chun school in Brasil and I suspect in quite a few other kung fu schools of various styles on the planet.

of course, again, if one isn't interested in staying on the ground, that's fine - the only "problem" is if one comes up against a skilled grappler who might be pretty good at not letting you get back up on your feet, and you haven't had the chance to practie aginst that level of skill, you might find yourself in a tight spot;

So might the "skilled grappler" if he comes up against a kung fu exponent who knows how to stay on his feet and thumps with his iron palm.;)

at this point, hands down, the people doing the most advanced groundwork (meaning staying on the ground) are BJJ, judo, sambo and wrestling; SC also, but the emphasis is mostly on standing throwing; one critical aspect of these arts are that they are all based on practicing primarily against resisting opponents; the previously mentioned TCMA ground stuff, while extant in the forms, is often not practiced (assuming it is at all) in a way that allows the practitioner to really experience what it is like to have a skilled grappler get ahold of you;

It all depends on the way the arts are trained and don´t for one minute assume that a skilled kung fu exponent will not be capable of surprising his grappling opponent, even on the ground.

I think people like Tim Cartmell are really the best thing that has happened to TCMA in a long time: he is someone with high level skill in so-called "internal" arts (although he will be the first to tell you that this distinction is bogus),

Just that statement has put doubts in my mind about his "high level" skill.

and a BJJ BB, which has enabled him to evolve the standup TCMA in a way that makes it applicable in a context that those old "masters" really didn't want to get into

That is it, thousands of years of evolution was not enough and it was left to Tim Cartmell come and save the enchant art of kung fu....lol....and I am the one who is sometimes accused of "fantasizing" about kung fu....lol.

(can't imagine Dong rolling around on the ground with Yang during their meet-up - that would have been funny...);

Maybe they were good enough to have stayed up on their feet. ;)

TenTigers

01-11-2009, 08:39 PM

Tim Cartmell, BTW, has a BB in BJJ...and will be the first to tell you that TCMA, when it comes to groundfighting, is a bit behind the curve in comparison to things like sambo, BJJ, judo, etc.
well, yeah. Because those arts have taken these very specific skill sets and developed and refined them to a high degree. Joi Bot Sien was always reserved for advanced players, and held back from the regular teaching. How can a system evolve if you aren't devoting any time and effort into it? That doesn't mean its archaic and outdated and useless, it just means that those people who do know it, should invest the time and effort and evolve, just as in any art.
So, in essence, you are right on the money. Nobody's doing anything with it. And why should they, when they can simply go to a BJJ school and learn the skills?
That doesn't mean it isn't salvageable. Or, better still, take the set, and then expand on it in class teachings. In this way, the art is preserved, and it retains its validity.
Then again, that's just me. I'm a stubborn, pig-headed, sumbich.;)

taai gihk yahn

01-11-2009, 08:39 PM

Just that statement has put doubts in my mind about his "high level" skill.
That is it, thousands of years of evolution was not enough and it was left to Tim Cartmell come and save the enchant art of kung fu....lol....and I am the one who is sometimes accused of "fantasizing" about kung fu....lol.
oh yeah, Tim's a real hack - all that time living in China studying TCMA, translating Sun Lu Tang's stuff - yeah, what would he know :rolleyes:

BTW, keep it up w/all your little sarcastic digs, etc.; odd's are that you're back here on some sort of probationary basis, so your reflexive baiting, insulting, all that stuff, it's certainly just the thing that you should do more of...

taai gihk yahn

01-11-2009, 08:43 PM

well, yeah. Because those arts have taken these very specific skill sets and developed and refined them to a high degree. Joi Bot Sien was always reserved for advanced players, and held back from the regular teaching. How can a system evolve if you aren't devoting any time and effort into it? That doesn't mean its archaic and outdated and useless, it just means that those people who do know it, should invest the time and effort and evolve, just as in any art.
So, in essence, you are right on the money. Nobody's doing anything with it. And why should they, when they can simply go to a BJJ school and learn the skills?
That doesn't mean it isn't salvageable. Or, better still, take the set, and then expand on it in class teachings. In this way, the art is preserved, and it retains its validity.
Then again, that's just me. I'm a stubborn, pig-headed, sumbich.;)

agreed - if you look at JBS, a lot of the skills it teaches are like basic BJJ stuff: like getting out of being mounted, shrimping, even some sort of guard-like looking things; but of course, practicing them in the abstract isn't going to get you far, and, in a way, if they are pretty much the same as what you learn in another system of groundfighting, the incentive for most peeps to labor over it is minimal, when they can acquire the skill set more readily elsewhere

TenTigers

01-11-2009, 08:44 PM

jeez, Chris-your sig quotes are taking up as much space as your posts!

-feel free to use that as a sig quote!:p

TenTigers

01-11-2009, 08:53 PM

And Real kung fu training will reduce the chance of one being taken down to the ground in the first place!
So might the "skilled grappler" if he comes up against a kung fu exponent who knows how to stay on his feet and thumps with his iron palm.;)
It all depends on the way the arts are trained and don´t for one minute assume that a skilled kung fu exponent will not be capable of surprising his grappling opponent, even on the ground.

let's not forget about the deadly ch'i blasts.
I have met very few BJJ guys who were aware that the deadly ch'i blasts even exist.
see? That's where we have them! The element of surprise. When they put the h3ll choke on you, right at the moment when they are distracted by the smell coming up from your pants...you STRIKE! SKA-DOOSH!

taai gihk yahn

01-11-2009, 08:54 PM

And Real kung fu training will reduce the chance of one being taken down to the ground in the first place!
assuming it's practiced against someone who is good at taking you down to the ground

However, it is no good to stay on the ground in any multiple opponent situation either hence the need to get up quickly having FIRST disabled the opponent on the ground as one does not want to risk him clinging to one when one is under attack from others.
I agree; I also believe that this is one of the signs of the Apocalypse...

Did you know that the wrestling arts were part of Chinese martial arts long before kung fu; during the kung fu era and up to today? This means that all major kung fu stylists foresaw the need for addressing ground fighting scenarios.
wrestling was the basis of pretty much every "ancient" culture's hand-to-hand: Gilgamesh and Enkidu didn't duke it out, they wrestled; the counterpoint to that was fighting with weapons, which was always more efficient than punch / kick when it came to "real" fighting;
as far as TCMA addressing groundfighting: again, it can be in the forms, but if no one is practicing it, pfft, buh-bye; and if you are practicing it against limited corpus of students in combination with all the other things you do in your style, it's not going to be as good as a system that emphasizes it; which is really my main point: TCMA groundfighting, in comparison to other extant systems that focus on it, is behind the curve; end of story;

So might the "skilled grappler" if he comes up against a kung fu exponent who knows how to stay on his feet and thumps with his iron palm.;)
most "skilled grapplers" are quite used to being hit rather hard by palms, elbows, forearms, knees etc.;

It all depends on the way the arts are trained and don´t for one minute assume that a skilled kung fu exponent will not be capable of surprising his grappling opponent, even on the ground.
ultimately it comes down to the individual at that moment, not the style: anyone can surprise anyone given the proper circumstances...

Maybe they were good enough to have stayed up on their feet. ;)
propriety would not have allowed any exchange of that nature to go to the ground, as it would have been unseemly for that to occur in front of the Mandarin royals for whom they were "demonstrating"...

Hardwork108

01-11-2009, 08:54 PM

oh yeah, Tim's a real hack - all that time living in China studying TCMA, translating Sun Lu Tang's stuff - yeah, what would he know :rolleyes:

You know don´t assume that just because someone goes to China then that means that he will be taught the closed door stuff. I have a kung fu brother who is from Singapore and according to him there are very few schools that even teach foreigners.

Also there are some Chinese sifus who believe that a lot of "essence" is lost in translation of Chinese MA and indeed Chi Kung texts.

Now, I am not saying that this guy, Tim is bad. All I am saying is that he may not be as "qualified" as you think, otherwise why study BJJ when he could find the same stuff in kung fu. Shouldn´t he be "qualified" enough to practice the techniques realistically to a workable and effective level?

BTW, keep it up w/all your little sarcastic digs, etc.; odd's are that you're back here on some sort of probationary basis, so your reflexive baiting, insulting, all that stuff, it's certainly just the thing that you should do more of...

What did you find so "insulting" in my previous post?

TenTigers

01-11-2009, 08:57 PM

let's not forget about the deadly ch'i blasts.
I have met very few BJJ guys who were aware that the deadly ch'i blasts even exist.
see? That's where we have them! The element of surprise. When they put the h3ll choke on you, right at the moment when they are distracted by the smell coming up from your pants...you STRIKE! SKA-DOOSH!

my BJJ buddy put the he11 choke on me this weekend.
I would've then sprung on him and released my ch'i blast...come to think of it, I think I might have.
um, no...I think I sharted.
well, it was a blast, nonetheless....

Hardwork108

01-11-2009, 08:59 PM

let's not forget about the deadly ch'i blasts.
I have met very few BJJ guys who were aware that the deadly ch'i blasts even exist.
see? That's where we have them! The element of surprise. When they put the h3ll choke on you, right at the moment when they are distracted by the smell coming up from your pants...you STRIKE! SKA-DOOSH!

LOL! I have seen the video too, but that was some kind of a BJJ/grappling contest. Now I know why those guys always win.;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knjpsjbQftk&feature=PlayList&p=98744E1E5311BCBA&playnext=1&index=3

TenTigers

01-11-2009, 09:01 PM

LOL! I have seen the video too, but that was some kind of a BJJ/grappling contest. Now I know why those guys always win.;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knjpsjbQftk&feature=PlayList&p=98744E1E5311BCBA&playnext=1&index=3

please, hasn't that guy suffered enough?:o
He's probably hung himself by his obi.
I know I would have....

TenTigers

01-11-2009, 09:03 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7q065_l3M&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

discussion closed.

taai gihk yahn

01-11-2009, 09:12 PM

You know don´t assume that just because someone goes to China then that means that he will be taught the closed door stuff. I have a kung fu brother who is from Singapore and according to him there are very few schools that even teach foreigners.
unless your KFB has the inside scoop on the specific schools Cartmell studied at, his perspective is not of any particular relevance;

Also there are some Chinese sifus who believe that a lot of "essence" is lost in translation of Chinese MA and indeed Chi Kung texts.
while that may be true, a lot of Chinese sifu's also believe that no non-Chinese would ever be able to do TCMA as well as a Chinese person would for the same reason - so no such thing as ethnocentric bias coloring that belief; anyway, it's really all about who is doing the translation - one can loose the essence if one does not have both advanced training in Chinese classical literature as well as a native knowledge of English at the collegiate level (fortunately, my sifu has both - and a lot of his translation actually does fly in the face of more "mainstream" works and which has made much of the internal practice more accessible to his students);

Now, I am not saying that this guy, Tim is bad. All I am saying is that he may not be as "qualified" as you think, otherwise why study BJJ when he could find the same stuff in kung fu.
it's not about what I think...check around on him a bit;

Shouldn´t he be "qualified" enough to practice the techniques realistically to a workable and effective level?
hey, why don't you e-mail him and ask him that? or PM his student Jake Burroghs, who is "Three Harmonies" on the forum; I'm sure he'd be happy to give you a sense of where Tim is "at" in that regard;

What did you find so "insulting" in my previous post?
I'm sorry, my mistake: obviously your use of "tai gihk yawnnn" was in the laudatory sense...:rolleyes:

taai gihk yahn

01-11-2009, 09:15 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7q065_l3M&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

discussion closed.

I wonder, what did guys like that do for togs before those Shaolin uniforms were readily available for purchase state-side?

jeez, Chris-your sig quotes are taking up as much space as your posts!
please, have you seen the size of M.P.'s? (err, that is to say, his sig line...)

anyway, I was actually thinking the same thing, and have rectified the situation...

-feel free to use that as a sig quote!:p
I will, although it kinda looses some of it's "oooph" subsequent to my editing...

Kansuke

01-12-2009, 12:20 AM

You know don´t assume that just because someone goes to China then that means that he will be taught the closed door stuff.

When you trained in China, how was it?

brothernumber9

01-12-2009, 06:36 AM

I once saw a guy do this form in public.
Except he had an octupus stuck on his face and couldn't get it off.
That guy looked like he was stuck in a closet with mirrors on each side and couldn't stand his own reflection. That wasn't drunken style. It was Nosferatu style and he got caught in the sun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7q065_l3M&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

discussion closed.

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 07:12 AM

well, yeah. Because those arts have taken these very specific skill sets and developed and refined them to a high degree. Joi Bot Sien was always reserved for advanced players, and held back from the regular teaching. How can a system evolve if you aren't devoting any time and effort into it? That doesn't mean its archaic and outdated and useless, it just means that those people who do know it, should invest the time and effort and evolve, just as in any art.
So, in essence, you are right on the money. Nobody's doing anything with it. And why should they, when they can simply go to a BJJ school and learn the skills?
That doesn't mean it isn't salvageable. Or, better still, take the set, and then expand on it in class teachings. In this way, the art is preserved, and it retains its validity.
Then again, that's just me. I'm a stubborn, pig-headed, sumbich.;)

Hey, I wish there were more "stubborn, pig-headed sumbiches" like you in this forum. Then we could all actually discuss more what is good about kung fu, how to preserve it and how to improve the way it is taught rather than the "greatness" of MMA, BJJ(fashions).;):)

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 07:14 AM

When you trained in China, how was it?

Where did I say that I trained in China?

sanjuro_ronin

01-12-2009, 07:28 AM

well, yeah. Because those arts have taken these very specific skill sets and developed and refined them to a high degree. Joi Bot Sien was always reserved for advanced players, and held back from the regular teaching. How can a system evolve if you aren't devoting any time and effort into it? That doesn't mean its archaic and outdated and useless, it just means that those people who do know it, should invest the time and effort and evolve, just as in any art.
So, in essence, you are right on the money. Nobody's doing anything with it. And why should they, when they can simply go to a BJJ school and learn the skills?
That doesn't mean it isn't salvageable. Or, better still, take the set, and then expand on it in class teachings. In this way, the art is preserved, and it retains its validity.
Then again, that's just me. I'm a stubborn, pig-headed, sumbich.;)

I don't knwo of anyone that has been exposed to advanced
ground work in CMA and the ground work in BJJ, Judo, Sambo and Submission grappling, that well tell you that CMA has anything over those systems mentioned.
John Wang is on this forum and probaly the highest ranking Shaui Jiao gut here, easily, so you can PM and ask him.
Andreas Hoffman is another you can ask too.

Ground work is a specialized skill set and as such, it is "only" as good as who it is trained against and in that regard, we will agree that the BJJ, Judo, Sambo and Sub grappling guys are the elite of that field.

As for Tim Cartmell, I don't see how anyone can even question his qualifications.

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 07:30 AM

unless your KFB has the inside scoop on the specific schools Cartmell studied at, his perspective is not of any particular relevance;

It is relevant when you put together what he said with two respected Chinese sifus had told me in confidence.

while that may be true, a lot of Chinese sifu's also believe that no non-Chinese would ever be able to do TCMA as well as a Chinese person would for the same reason - so no such thing as ethnocentric bias coloring that belief;

Their "bias" gains credibility when one looks at some of the "expert" comments by the none Chinese kung fu "sifus" here in the forum, including some "enlightenning" statements on the internals.;)

anyway, it's really all about who is doing the translation - one can loose the essence if one does not have both advanced training in Chinese classical literature as well as a native knowledge of English at the collegiate level (fortunately, my sifu has both - and a lot of his translation actually does fly in the face of more "mainstream" works and which has made much of the internal practice more accessible to his students);

My sifu can "beat" your sifu.;)

it's not about what I think...check around on him a bit;

What I say still stands. Why practice BJJ to a black belt level when you are said to be a high level kung fu practitioner, instead of putting the same effort in researching/practicing the parallel grappling techniques in kung fu?

hey, why don't you e-mail him and ask him that? or PM his student Jake Burroghs, who is "Three Harmonies" on the forum; I'm sure he'd be happy to give you a sense of where Tim is "at" in that regard;

With all due respect, I already have a sense of where Tim is "at". He seems to be a well respected exponent and I take my hat off to him, but what I said still stands.

I´m sorry my mistake: obviously your use of "tai gihk yawnnn" was in the laudatory sense...:rolleyes:

Believe it or not that was an honest manifestation of what I was feeling when I read your post and besides I have seen WORSE from you!

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 07:56 AM

assuming it's practiced against someone who is good at taking you down to the ground

Of course and as you may or may not know there are numerous of takedowns in most kung fu styles. If they are present then one must assume that in a good training program they will be practised in par with the striking techniques.

I agree; I also believe that this is one of the signs of the Apocalypse...
:confused:

wrestling was the basis of pretty much every "ancient" culture's hand-to-hand: Gilgamesh and Enkidu didn't duke it out, they wrestled; the counterpoint to that was fighting with weapons, which was always more efficient than punch / kick when it came to "real" fighting;

And?

as far as TCMA addressing groundfighting: again, it can be in the forms, but if no one is practicing it, pfft, buh-bye;

That is my point! Nowadays, Kung fu is not generally taught the way it should be!!!

and if you are practicing it against limited corpus of students in combination with all the other things you do in your style, it's not going to be as good as a system that emphasizes it;

Contradictory statement. If your kung fu style and school addresses effective groundfighting and you devote time and effort to it then it will all fit together with all the other stuff within the style.

If one practices bjj, together with a dozen other martial arts, including kung fu then one will still have the same problem that you mentioned and that is time and dedication to the grappling (or any other) aspect of his training.

However, some people seem to have the time to be good at grappling and striking, even if their kung fu amounts to a little more than a form of Glorified Kickboxing.

In a kung fu school where kung fu is trained authentically and holisticaly then it would be up to the individual to brush up on all aspects.

By the way, having trained against a "limited corpus of students" did not seem to effect the fighting abilities of some of the kung fu sifus I have come across.

which is really my main point: TCMA groundfighting, in comparison to other extant systems that focus on it, is behind the curve; end of story;
You still have a lot to learn about the depth of kung fu!

most "skilled grapplers" are quite used to being hit rather hard by palms, elbows, forearms, knees etc.;

So are boxers and they get knocked out regularly when they are hit by powerful shots.

ultimately it comes down to the individual at that moment, not the style: anyone can surprise anyone given the proper circumstances...

Correct!

propriety would not have allowed any exchange of that nature to go to the ground, as it would have been unseemly for that to occur in front of the Mandarin royals for whom they were "demonstrating"...

It would be even more "unseemly" if one of them was taken to the ground and defeated, don´t you think? But then I wouldn´t really know as I am not personally acquainted with any Mandarin royals, eventhough I should be.:D

Kansuke

01-12-2009, 08:41 AM

Why practice BJJ to a black belt level when you are said to be a high level kung fu practitioner, instead of putting the same effort in researching/practicing the parallel grappling techniques in kung fu?

Do you honestly not know the answer to this question?

Kansuke

01-12-2009, 08:45 AM

If one practices bjj, together with a dozen other martial arts, including kung fu then one will still have the same problem that you mentioned and that is time and dedication to the grappling (or any other) aspect of his training.

However, some people seem to have the time to be good at grappling and striking, even if their kung fu amounts to a little more than a form of Glorified Kickboxing.

What exactly are your qualifications to pass judgement on, well, everyone?

Kansuke

01-12-2009, 08:56 AM

Where did I say that I trained in China?

You didn't? Oh, it sounded like you wanted to suggest you were personally familiar with it.

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 09:01 AM

Do you honestly not know the answer to this question?

Do you honestly know the answer to this question?

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 09:02 AM

What exactly are your qualifications to pass judgement on, well, everyone?

What are yours to question me?

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 09:06 AM

You didn't? Oh, it sounded like you wanted to suggest you were personally familiar with it.

I really and honestly think that you are on something, probably illegal narcotics. So go and get some help. There are organizations that dedicate time and effort to helping people like you.

All you need to do is take that first step.

Kansuke

01-12-2009, 09:07 AM

Do you honestly know the answer to this question?

Yes, yes I do.

Kansuke

01-12-2009, 09:08 AM

What are yours to question me?

That answers that. I guess it will be pretty clear to anyone reading this.

Kansuke

01-12-2009, 09:11 AM

I really and honestly think that you are on something, probably illegal narcotics.

Nope, but thanks for your concern.

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 09:12 AM

That answers that. I guess it will be pretty clear to anyone reading this.

I sure hope so!

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 09:14 AM

Nope, but thanks for your concern.

The denial syndrom, eh?

As I said all you need is to take the first step as burying your head in the sand is not going to help your problem.

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 09:16 AM

Yes, yes I do.

Good for you my boy, good for you.:rolleyes:

bawang

01-12-2009, 09:17 AM

please delete ur stooopid msges for other pplz

about the video of wang li jun, i guess he has decent taijiquan but that drunken form was obviously made up movements with a couple of common break falls

Lama Pai Sifu

01-12-2009, 09:17 AM

please, have you seen the size of M.P.'s? (err, that is to say, his sig line...)

Don't be jealous because mine is....Large! Size Matters! Well, at least with Signature Lines anyway.....

sanjuro_ronin

01-12-2009, 09:19 AM

Don't be jealous because mine is....Large! Size Matters! Well, at least with Signature Lines anyway.....

Mine is better than yours :p

Kansuke

01-12-2009, 09:28 AM

The denial syndrom, eh?

As I said all you need is to take the first step as burying your head in the sand is not going to help your problem.

I told you that you were wrong. Why would you continue to make the same assertion?

Kansuke

01-12-2009, 09:29 AM

Good for you my boy, good for you.:rolleyes:

Wow, you really seem determined to create discord here. Why?

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 09:34 AM

Maybe if I ignore the junky who has invaded MY THREAD, then he will go away.:rolleyes:

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 09:35 AM

about the video of wang li jun, i guess he has decent taijiquan but that drunken form was obviously made up movements with a couple of common break falls

What do you think of wang li jun´s performance of the form?

Kansuke

01-12-2009, 09:48 AM

Maybe if I ignore the junky who has invaded MY THREAD, then he will go away.:rolleyes:

Your thread? Is that how you think a forum works?

TenTigers

01-12-2009, 11:28 AM

first of all, It's actually my thread, because I said the coolest things.:p
Second of all, could you guys please delete your nonesense, as we had an interesting discussion, and now we have to wade through all your ( rap to see if there is anything of value. (none thus far)
remember-"When you argue with an idiot, nobody can tell which one is which."

lkfmdc

01-12-2009, 12:23 PM

NOrmally I'd say don't feed the troll, but as this thread will get him banned again, continue as you were

SimonM

01-12-2009, 12:32 PM

My signature line is batman.

And he can breathe in space.

punchdrunk

01-12-2009, 02:12 PM

sanjuro_ronin

01-12-2009, 02:19 PM

taai gihk yahn

01-12-2009, 04:26 PM

As for Tim Cartmell, I don't see how anyone can even question his qualifications.
obviously, the fact that he felt the need to do BJJ belies his lack of depth in regards to the other arts he dabbled in :rolleyes:

It is relevant when you put together what he said with two respected Chinese sifus had told me in confidence.
well, that certainly settles the issue:rolleyes:

My sifu can "beat" your sifu.;)
yes, I'm sure he could;

What I say still stands. Why practice BJJ to a black belt level when you are said to be a high level kung fu practitioner, instead of putting the same effort in researching / practicing the parallel grappling techniques in kung fu?
maybe he did, and found them lacking :eek:

Believe it or not that was an honest manifestation of what I was feeling when I read your post and besides I have seen WORSE from you!
exactly! please, continue to "manifest" your true feelings - again, I personally don't care, but it's all just a slippery slope for you...

If one practices bjj, together with a dozen other martial arts, including kung fu then one will still have the same problem that you mentioned and that is time and dedication to the grappling (or any other) aspect of his training.
on the other hand, one may have practiced one or two Chinese arts in great detail over many years, and then decided to add BJJ because of what was lacking in what they studied;

You still have a lot to learn about the depth of kung fu!
truly, we could certainly all learn a great deal about digging deeply from one such as yourself!

It would be even more "unseemly" if one of them was taken to the ground and defeated, don´t you think?
actually, it would be considered a hollow victory on the part of the one doing the takedown, essentially demonstrating that he was unable to sufficiently control the other while they both remained standing - in other words, if "A" could take "B" down, certainly "A's" skill would be considered superior to "B", but if "A" were a true master, he could control "B" while allowing "B" to remain on his feet - indeed, the ultimate victory would be that only "B" would know he was being owned, whereas to everyone else, it would appear to be a draw, thereby maintaining face for both (which, as I understand, is what happened, with Dong being the "unknown victor");

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 05:08 PM

I guess the argument that has ensued comes down to Hardwork beleives that traditional kung fu contains all the solutions already contained in it, while some others beleive that kung fu is individual and must evolve and grow with time and experience... fair enough on both sides, of course the question could be answered in person by sparring. Some good points could come from both camps in a mature discussion without calling someone a junkie.
If you read the article i mentioned you'll enjoy it whether your a "traditionalist" or not. Peace.

Good post. It is just the person I was rude to is a troll who lives off harrassing people he doesn´t like. He used to post here under a different name. I am sorry if that came across as rude on my part.

To my knowledge he does not practice kung fu and he is a wrestler. That means that he has quite a few friends among the MMA-ist ("kung fu-ists"?) in this forum. Of course none of them are going to come out and call him a troll as they are, and have always been selective with their morality.

Under his old forum name he had been rude to many including newbies and guess what? Well lets just say that the silence was deafening!
What did the same people who are criticising me now do about it? NOTHING!

It seems that if one wants an easy time here then he should agree with all these modernists´ ludicrous "improved", "functional" and "there is something missing from kung fu" approach or otherwise take up Bjj and/or kickboxing plus a few more, as additional arts to be with the In Crowd.

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 05:16 PM

first of all, It's actually my thread, because I said the coolest things.:p

Nods with agreement.:D

remember-"When you argue with an idiot, nobody can tell which one is which."

That is why I am going to ingnore the idiot and not let him destroy this thread and make me contributor, like he has done in the past.

Going back to the subject matter. Can you post any video links showing applications of some of the techniques from the Drunk Boxing form.

I think that this unorthodox approach to combat has a lot to offer and the more we see of the applications then the more we will appreciate it.

Kansuke

01-12-2009, 05:18 PM

Instead of going on and on about your personal agenda, why not let it go and just have a discussion?

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 05:42 PM

obviously, the fact that he felt the need to do BJJ belies his lack of depth in regards to the other arts he dabbled in :rolleyes:

You took the words out of my mouth there, "amigo".:D

well, that certainly settles the issue:rolleyes:

Well that took you long enough didn´t it.

yes, I'm sure he could;

I knew that you would come to my way of thinking.:)

maybe he did, and found them lacking :eek:

And maybe he didn´t.:eek:

exactly! please, continue to "manifest" your true feelings - again, I personally don't care, but it's all just a slippery slope for you...

Who would have guessed that we would one day be living in a world where manifesting your true feelings would put you on a slippery slope.:eek:

on the other hand, one may have practiced one or two Chinese arts in great detail over many years, and then decided to add BJJ because of what was lacking in what they studied;

I wish I had a dime for everytime somebody told me that kung fu was lacking in something.

truly, we could certainly all learn a great deal about digging deeply from one such as yourself!

You certainly can as regards digging deeper into kung fu. It is never too late to learn. However, my prescription for you would be to go back to the basics and practice your forms very hard. Relax the mind at all times and repeat the moves until it hurts and then repeat them more until you get to a meditative state as the pain of tiredness is replaced by what I call "automated tranquility".

When you are in this state then everything will make more sense. Try it.

actually, it would be considered a hollow victory on the part of the one doing the takedown, essentially demonstrating that he was unable to sufficiently control the other while they both remained standing

Better that the hollow victory belongs to you rather than your opponent (specially with royals watching ;)).

- in other words, if "A" could take "B" down, certainly "A's" skill would be considered superior to "B", but if "A" were a true master, he could control "B" while allowing "B" to remain on his feet -

That is the scenario I described when I said that maybe they were too good to be taken down.

indeed the ultimate victory would be that only "B" would know he was being owned, whereas to everyone else, it would appear to be a draw, thereby maintaining face for both (which, as I understand, is what happened, with Dong being the "unknown victor");

Point taken but I still think that during a fight a lot of things can go "wrong". EG. How would one fighter really know how far the other one was willing to go to win, irrespective of what happened in the Dong fight. Remember that some kung fu fighters in the past had killed people during combat.

You know, you have attributed some of my quotes to Sanjuro_ronin, knowing very well that he lacks my depth of knowledge regarding kung fu. Shame on you!:D

Kansuke

01-12-2009, 06:03 PM

That is the scenario I described when I said that maybe they were too good to be taken down.

NO ONE is too good to be taken down.

taai gihk yahn

01-12-2009, 06:15 PM

until you get to a meditative state as the pain of tiredness is replaced by what I call "automated tranquility". When you are in this state then everything will make more sense.
hearing that from you, everything makes a great deal more sense now...

Better that the hollow victory belongs to you rather than your opponent (specially with royals watching ;)).
perhaps - but again, if you slam the other guy down, it could be considered boorish - and you might just find yourself out of work all the same!

Point taken but I still think that during a fight a lot of things can go "wrong". EG. How would one fighter really know how far the other one was willing to go to win, irrespective of what happened in the Dong fight.
of course, anything can happen, but my understanding is that this sort of "demo match" was more for the entertainment of those watching, and as such were somewhat of an artifact: how one comported oneself was important, because committing some sort of faux pas reflected as much, if not more, on one's employer; so maintaining a sort of dignified detachment was important;

Remember that some kung fu fighters in the past had killed people during combat.
my first sifu being a case in point; the interesting thing is that all the stories about him doing so were told to us by other people, he never volunteered that info until someone else had "broken the ice"; all of his stories were about how he had his asz kicked by someone better than him, and how he then went and studied that style; including boxing!

taai gihk yahn

01-12-2009, 06:17 PM

NO ONE is too good to be taken down.

Chuck Norris doesn't get taken down; he pulls the planet up!

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 06:23 PM

hearing that from you, everything makes a great deal more sense now...

See, you are never too old to learn. This holds specially true in the case of TCMA studies. Good luck on your new journey.

perhaps - but again, if you slam the other guy down, it could be considered boorish - and you might just find yourself out of work all the same!

And if the other guy slams you down you might find yourself maimed for life.

of course, anything can happen, but my understanding is that this sort of "demo match" was more for the entertainment of those watching, and as such were somewhat of an artifact: how one comported oneself was important, because committing some sort of faux pas reflected as much, if not more, on one's employer; so maintaining a sort of dignified detachment was important;

If this was the case then point taken. However, not all cases were so "honorable".

my first sifu being a case in point; the interesting thing is that all the stories about him doing so were told to us by other people, he never volunteered that info until someone else had "broken the ice"; all of his stories were about how he had his asz kicked by someone better than him, and how he then went and studied that style; including boxing!

You mean a real kung fu master lost to a boxer???:eek:

And he was your teacher? Things are beginning to make sense now......

HW108

P.S. The boxer must have caught him on an "off day".:D

taai gihk yahn

01-12-2009, 06:53 PM

See, you are never too old to learn. This holds specially true in the case of TCMA studies. Good luck on your new journey.
and good luck on your upcoming one...

And if the other guy slams you down you might find yourself maimed for life.
true - walking the razors edge between economic and bodily ruin!

If this was the case then point taken. However, not all cases were so "honorable".
of course not;

You mean a real kung fu master lost to a boxer???:eek: And he was your teacher? Things are beginning to make sense now......
P.S. The boxer must have caught him on an "off day".:D
ignoring the fact that you are making light of a highly respected TCMA master's experience, the fact is, he stepped into a boxing ring with no idea what he was getting into; from what I understand, it took him about 3 bouts to figure things out, and after that, he did rather well; in general, he always spoke about boxing in a positive light (unlike WC, which he used to rank on - but he was CLF, whaddaya want), and he was very much in favor of it as a style of fighting

Hardwork108

01-12-2009, 07:10 PM

and good luck on your upcoming one...
Thank you.:)

true - walking the razors edge between economic and bodily ruin!

Well I for one would not want to be in their shoes.

ignoring the fact that you are making light of a highly respected TCMA master's experience,
Not really.

the fact is, he stepped into a boxing ring with no idea what he was getting into;

Well that was a mistake. Stepping into a ring with boxers who generally "live" in it is a mistake. It is like taking on a Bjj fighter on the mat. And of course there are the rules. I am sure that if it was an all out street fight your master would have done a lot better in his first encounters.

from what I understand, it took him about 3 bouts to figure things out, and after that, he did rather well;

Well hats of to him for going there. I suppose some people just have that warrior spirit that pushes them to such lengths.

Having said that I will add that in my own case it is far more likely for me to end up fighting a boxer in a street scenario than the ring.

in general, he always spoke about boxing in a positive light (unlike WC, which he used to rank on - but he was CLF, whaddaya want), and he was very much in favor of it as a style of fighting

I am not surprised about his view of Wing Chun. I have met other respected kung fu sifus from other styles that consider WC as incomplete and unfortunately for the most part they are right, because from what I have seen nowaday´s WC is practiced in an incomplete manner in most schools and that has been one of my issues here with other posters.

sanjuro_ronin

01-13-2009, 06:49 AM

obviously, the fact that he felt the need to do BJJ belies his lack of depth in regards to the other arts he dabbled in :rolleyes:

well, that certainly settles the issue:rolleyes:

yes, I'm sure he could;

maybe he did, and found them lacking :eek:

exactly! please, continue to "manifest" your true feelings - again, I personally don't care, but it's all just a slippery slope for you...

on the other hand, one may have practiced one or two Chinese arts in great detail over many years, and then decided to add BJJ because of what was lacking in what they studied;

truly, we could certainly all learn a great deal about digging deeply from one such as yourself!

actually, it would be considered a hollow victory on the part of the one doing the takedown, essentially demonstrating that he was unable to sufficiently control the other while they both remained standing - in other words, if "A" could take "B" down, certainly "A's" skill would be considered superior to "B", but if "A" were a true master, he could control "B" while allowing "B" to remain on his feet - indeed, the ultimate victory would be that only "B" would know he was being owned, whereas to everyone else, it would appear to be a draw, thereby maintaining face for both (which, as I understand, is what happened, with Dong being the "unknown victor");

WTF ???
Those aren't my quotes !!

Hardwork108

01-13-2009, 04:50 PM

WTF ???
Those aren't my quotes !!

I think that tahh gihk yaahn made an honest mistake.:)

You must have been on his mind when he was posting to me.;)

knocturnal_fang

01-24-2010, 12:04 AM

does anyone know any good refference material to start studying drunken kung fu for a beginner? thanks

Hebrew Hammer

01-24-2010, 03:29 AM

Show up to your kwoon after happy hour.

Its not a specific style, and usually not for begginers...there are some subsets of styles that include Drunken Kung Fu (ie Choy Lee Fut) but are usually taught at a more advanced level. This one is going to take some dedication son.

PS I was disappointed to find this out as well when I was first looking into Kung Fu. Makes for great film but might not be the best in to use for self defense...I prefer to use the rare yet powerful Captain N Coke and Nacho breath weapon when inebriated...and I'm undefeated in three states.

uki

01-24-2010, 03:55 AM

unleash your inner beast with some fine scotch. :)

David Jamieson

01-24-2010, 11:40 AM

It's "step drunk"

not

"be drunk" lol.

uki

01-24-2010, 12:42 PM

It's "step drunk"doing more spin in forms creates a naturally non-alcoholic state of equilibrium distortion. :D

bawang

01-24-2010, 02:33 PM

1. buy 5 bottles of 60% alcohol saki laced with pcp
2. give to homeless guy
3.
4. now u learn awesom drunken boxing

goju

01-24-2010, 04:37 PM

if the actually drunken kung fu as fancy looking as the preformance wushu version?

No_Know

01-24-2010, 08:23 PM

Drunkard Kung Fu and its Applications- Dr. Leung Ting

No_Know

TenTigers

01-24-2010, 09:49 PM

if the actually drunken kung fu as fancy looking as the preformance wushu version?
not at all. Although certain movements from the original forms have been added to the wushu version, they have made it into an acrobatic performance routine.
There have been several magazine articles by people who do the performance routine, claiming to be experts, and showing ridiculous applications and theories.
Mostly, the real Joi Bot Sien consists of mainly throws, takedowns, and grappling movements. It only appears to resemble a drunkard due to these techniques-the stumbling was added to the form to give it the overall appearance, and to possibly hide the applications.
Face it, if you did the movements of a suplex-without a partner (as in a form-Goliath lifts the wine pot) you would appear as if you had fallen on your back. A leg sweep, or a hip throw (especially if you look at the walking drills in Chinese wrestling) appears like a stumble, etc. Really no mystery to it.