8 Step Lineage Holder

[commoner]

Hi EarthDragon,

Happy Holiday! Please let us know when did you become a lineage holder in Shyun's 8 Step? Did you go through the traditional ceremony? You must have received the title before you left Shyun's school. Are you offically 5th or 6th generation 8 Step?

Please if you can tell me about the process of becoming a lineage holder in 8 Step. It would be great information for my research.




http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39543&page=3

12-14-2005, 04:15 PM
EarthDragon
SHRFU FOR LIFE! Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 748

being a lineage holder in the ba bu tang lang system. I was given the name "Shyun Di Long" which I'm sure everyones figured out translates to EARTHDRAGON as you can tell from my screen name.

Although I have been called much worse things . LOL

someone said if water dragon and myself fought, would that mean we would then both be a mud dragon. Still laughing at that one.
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Last edited by EarthDragon : 12-14-2005 at 04:18 PM.


http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5598

10-10-2001, 07:53 AM
Kagerou Posts: n/a

Michael to Earth

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I was wondering , is "Earth Dragon" your generation or diciple name? Did James Sun give you that name? :confused:

Just wondering, thats all

Kagerou


Kagerou

#2 10-10-2001, 11:35 AM
Nutt'nhunny Posts: n/a

How dare you question his name? Who are you to judge. I happen to be a student to Earthdragon's even though he doesn't know who I am. He's the best for the money in the area. Sorry sifu, I know I'm a jerk on this, but I am reforming thanx to Sifu's wisdom and patience. I grilled him at first on this and then later became a student after I saw his web site and saw his posts.


Nutt'nhunny

#3 10-10-2001, 03:16 PM
EARTH DRAGON Posts: n/a

although I have not officaly been named a generation as of yet my generation is 6th which is di or earth and long simply means lucky or dragon.
honey havent seen you in class in a while LOL whats up ?

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[EarthDragon]

Commoner, I would be happy to explian although it still confuses me.
while living in S.F with Shyun. Dean was given the ceremony for 5th generation. this name is tien or "Heaven". While I was technically Dean's student I would have to become a generation under him 6th or Di "Earth" as he was the only 5th genaeration in our family. However when I moved to SF I became Shyun's direct student and was privledged to call him Shrfu Shyun not master as I was then considered his student. I was certified and had my tradtional picture taken with me standing an him sitting and was told that i would then be named in the ceremony with Kevin loftus and jack skutnik the 2 other 6th generation diciples. Di hui and Di ren. I was named and placed on the mantis cave by Shyun but then the controversy came about and the actual lineage was questioned whether it was even a leigit lineage......... 3 years later I left the federation.

[commoner]

EarthDragon,

I did not mean to open a can of worm with master Shyun's school. I was more curious about the lineage holder process in today's schools. Anyway thanks for sharing your perspective.

[EarthDragon]

Oh, my apologies commoner, I thought you were reffering to me personaly as you addressed the question to me. other than the tea ceremony, the tradtional picture and generation name given, taken and written in the family charts/books I am not sure about other rituals that other families have. but there are quite a few lineage holders out here that perhaps could answer your question better than I.

[commoner]

Hi EarthDragon,

I was directing the question to you (8 Step), but it seems to have open some of your old feelings. Sorry and thanks for your response.

[onyomi]

Um, I think only one person can be the "lineage holder" for a give style at any given time.

[ChaoticMantis]

Old8step,

I will not answer your questions about Dean being the only 5th generation. This will stir up into a heated discussion. I know he has other 5th generation instructors. You could possibly find this out from his website.

Master Shyun has done away with the generation inheritor (lineage holder) after him. He realized eventually when he is no longer around, there might be infighting among his students as to who will be the designated inheritor of the system.

He has created a disciple group to carry on the management and preservation of his 8 Step lineage. Presently the disciple group is made up of Master Shyun’s senior instructors. The disciple group members will select a senior instructor into the disciple group if any disciple members decide to retire or when he/she reaches the mandatory retirement age of 75. A grandmaster must also retire at the age of 75 and new member who has reached the 9th duan level will elevate to the 10th duan grandmaster. If there are more than one 9th duan level disciples, the most senior will be elevated to grandmaster.

In keeping with tradition and lineage, there is a private database created to log all of Master Shyun’s student instructors as to who they were taught by.

Please note there might be some inaccuracies as I only spoke to him briefly about it.

[EarthDragon]

CHAOTIC, if shyun is not the sole inheritor of 8 step how could he pass it along? just curious. Also every other student of Shyun's was a off spring of Dean's original studetns. dean was the only one of Shyun's studetns whom opened a school adn taught others. it was Dean who spread the system to NY then onto the masses. no one else...........

[old8step]

chaotic: I understand you not wishing to stir up a debate and do not worry by not answering my question you have given me all the answers i need. I see that you speak to sifu frequently yes? I wonder have you had the time to ask about me or my Dai Low. Do you know who we are yet? I know that you left SF in the early 90's but during my time I was one of only two student's who were given a key to the School along with my Dai Low. I am also sure that with the people you know you should with out a doubt know him as he trained on Irving he helped move Sifu into the new studio from Irving to Noriega He also knows Shawn well and he knows Bruce who you have mentioned. I know you have stated you are not interested in specific events so I won't go into anything like that but if you speak to Sifu ask of Michael I'm sure he will remember us.

[ChaoticMantis]

Mr. Michael Haley,

The argument about Grandmaster James Shyun and his lineage can be endless and tiring. I see why many of his students stop contributing to this forum. I thought I had enough patience to present a neutral and different point view of Grandmaster James Shyun and the 8 Step that he teaches. I guess I was wrong because my patience is running really thin. So before I say something I regret I am leaving this forum.

Like you said everybody has an opinion, but your opinion toward 8 Step always come off as negative. Many people have tried to encourage you and it don’t seem like it is helping.

Dean was yesterday’s news, he has moved on. You should be moving on and leave this behind. Let me tell you this, Dean has dirty laundry in the closet. There are a few old students that know about it and myself included. I will not speak about it, but I am not sure about the other old students. You can ask Dean about the converstation he had with Sifu a few months prior to him leaving for Buffalo.


Old8step,

Not to be disrespectful, but I don’t want to know who you are. I was just curious about the ground mantis.

[EarthDragon]

The reason many of shyuns students left this forum was becuase they could not come up with any answers to the direct questions asked about him and his federation. it is nothing personal. If what has been uncovered is not ture hen simply show the proof adn none myself included would questrion it.

You are not a student nor do you own or run a school nor are you a sifu or ranked by him at all so I am not sure why you are defending him so much.

Much has changed since you used to train that you are not aware of, so perhaps you sould fact find and back up some of the things you say with proof. that would hold much more water than just our personal opinon.

[old8step]

chaotic: Now i am confused no disrespect taken as I can understand you not wishing to know me personally but now I am beginning to get a little suspicious yes you have some old pictures of sifu's etc and you know the names of some of the oldest students but yet you will not reveal who you are always talking in "codes" when asked about certain student's you do not know them these are people who ran Sifu's school helped with his bookkeeping and finances entrusted in his home etc. you wish to spread 8 step yet want to hide who you are why?? AT least sifu haley gives specifics instead of this smoke and mirrors that you seem to be throwing up.. If you look at all my posts I have never had one bad thing to say about sifu, earth dragon or etc. i have been respectful with all my questions and answered any as truthfully as i can but i think the time has come to say who you are or I don't see why any of sifu's other student's should trust you enough to share information.

[EarthDragon]

old8step, His name is KIN he was the very short half chinese guy that wore glasses. Although he trained with shyun in the old days he was never ranked, never a shrfu, never opened a school and never taught anyone.

This was always frowned upon by Shrfu shyun as he wanted to spread the system and was adamant about if you were ranked as a shrfu you must open a school and teach others.

most of his studetns never did this with the exception of Dean. then dean taught me kevin, geroge, jerry, jack, peter ray, joel,steve and tony. of which we all opened schools of our own. and spread tyhe system acroos the US with jerry moving to FLA, kevin to SD, tony to TO, geroge to GA jack to NJ etc etc.

after all these years the whoel reason was building up students and planting seeds to reap 5,000 a months from fees and dues and enrollment. 5,000 a month is a great living so i cant say i blame him however honesty will get you father than greed.

[ChaoticMantis]

Mr. Haley,

Like you said if you don't know someone, you should not talk about them. You can say anything you want about me. I know I earned my rank through hard work and training just like everyone of his instructors.

I am ranked a 3rd duan level instructor as I am listed in 8step.com. After Master Shyun gave me my rank of instructor, I choose to not teach because of other priorities. That is why I was never listed and that was fine with me. Now that I have more time to help Master Shyun to promote 8 step, I am listed as an active instructor.

So let's not continue with this nonsense, because no one wins and it damages 8 step.

[EarthDragon]

Kin, agreed. I have nothing bad to say about you at all and I never will.

I just state some facts. Do you remember my name on his site? i was the HQ school for all 3 schools in NY. He has taught 3 seminars at my school and i hosted the national taiwian taji team at my school please read the news and article section of my website. but my name was taken off the site after i stopped paying dues. then you name was added have you had to buy a 400.00 uniform? or a gold mantis pin? of 100.00 a month dues? or 5,000 per student fo sifu program? you will then you wil feel like me and the other 10 ex 8 steppers in he family bu make your own choice. remember i know shyun very well also and this is america.