Weapons for now [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

Liokault

02-24-2003, 11:38 AM

I have loads.

i think im one of the few types of people that gets to carry somthing close to a spear in public. Ok its a handle for a fishing net but its 6-9 foot long (teliscopic) made out of metal and ends in a semi sharp point. Its really usefulkl as im ofton fishing in a place in the middle of my town where guys regularly get done over for their fishing gear.....I my self have had a guy try to take my stuff.

Also in my fishing kit is a catapult that will put a pouch full of 10mm diamiter leads 100 meters......i keep it close at hand during the night and practice on canadian geese.

At home I have a range of blunt objects around the house. My favorite is the toilet roll holder....basicaly a 2 foot long handle with a weight on the end. Usefull as my bathroom is next to my front door.

My other weapon and one which i carry with my is a car key. It has a large plastic body that fits nicly into my hand and a 2 inch metal studd that protrudes though my fingers when i make a fist. I always carry this when i go running at night.

Surferdude

02-25-2003, 02:16 PM

Chopsticks!!!!!!!:D
You can poke peoples eyes out, and pinch there nose!!!
That hurts alot then you can say "I got your nose!!!!" Then run!!!:D

Leto

02-26-2003, 01:32 PM

Liokault...may I ask why there is a catapult in your fishing kit? Are you fishing for flying fish? *s* anyway...

The cane, or umbrella cane, is a good one. though umbrella's aren't too sturdy. baseball bats will work...golf clubs...hockey sticks. good ol' Casey Jones had the idea :)

things people often have on them...pens or pencils. not much skill involved there, not really any need or potential for training, unless you're throwing them. would work for stabbing easily enough. Work on throwing skills, so you can make any object a lethal weapon, just like Bullseye *lol*

Surferdude

02-26-2003, 05:27 PM

I'm tellin ya, eating utensils are the best!!!:D :p :rolleyes:

lau gar

02-27-2003, 02:37 AM

just carry around a telescopic baton:D

HuangKaiVun

02-27-2003, 03:01 PM

I teach in my school for self-defense on the street:

cord
shoe
magazine (rolled up)
pen
cup
ball
box
staff
watch

Surferdude

03-04-2003, 01:28 PM

I hear if you f.art and it smells you can keep people away in at least a 45 mile radius!!!!!!!:D ;) :rolleyes:

yenhoi

03-10-2003, 01:25 PM

Porcelin letter openers.
Sharpened Credit Card or ID card.
Magazines.

All work on airplanes.

ZIM

03-10-2003, 01:44 PM

Bad breath, seriously BAD breath

:eek:

Tsukasa_1

04-07-2003, 06:46 PM

ive got it

get a cool belt like the one that bullseye has in DareDevil

that would be ubercool

TKD

04-08-2003, 12:59 PM

How about those metal throwing cards. I think throwing stars are illegal on planes and stuff, but If I recall correctly it doesn't say anything about throwing cards.

Kristoffer

04-14-2003, 10:43 AM

loooooool

Kristoffer

04-14-2003, 10:46 AM

I'm so ****ing bored I think I'll go stab my dog
DIE
DOG
DIE

(that's german for, 'The dog, THE')

wuqigong

12-27-2005, 03:52 PM

Weapons from kung fu aren't useful for protection these days, I mean you're not gonna walk around with a sword or whatever. And I know you probably won't use or carry a gun if you only want to protect yourself if something happens. At least I don't.
So what can I use as a weapon?

some ideas:
money (shuriken)
creditcard ( to cut with )
mp3??
mobile phone?
jacket?

I don't know what you could all use so I'm asking you for ideas and for a view on what you think about this..

I think the way of fighting is changing so should weapons, at least for street fighting or defens on the street is concerned..

SevenStar

12-27-2005, 04:16 PM

wtf? Dude, get a knife, some fox spray or a stun gun. I've also become fond of tactical flashlights recently.

wuqigong

12-27-2005, 04:24 PM

wtf? Dude, get a knife, some fox spray or a stun gun. I've also become fond of tactical flashlights recently.

That's what I don't mean, you want to bring stuff with you to protect. I mean what can you use if you don't take with you anything other than the usual and what can you do with it ;)

And yes I've got a keychain with flashlight that's indeed good aswell. first blind the opponent then hit..

syn

12-27-2005, 04:26 PM

A key might work but it'd be hard since they're usually small. Just use your hands if you can't find anythign good at a critical moment.

Ou Ji

12-27-2005, 04:48 PM

I've always said the bottom line is you need to be able to fight naked. Anything else is a plus but the only thing you can rely on is you.

Pepper spray is great if you have it at ALL times.

First thing to do is check your state weapons laws and see what you can legally carry.

You might have to fall back on pens, umbrellas, canes, combs, belts, etc.

When I was a kid I wore a chain bracelet that would slip over my knuckles with the excess filling in the space in my fist. Crude but will hurt your face more than it will my hand. Belts also make good weapons. Learned belt techniques from street fighters. This was before any formal training.

I also carried either a knife or box cutter plus wore a chain with 'S' hooks on each end (like manrikigusari) around my neck. Those of course were illegal to carry concealed.

You can also carry a roll of quarters but that weighs heavy in the pocket. Anything that will take up the space in your fist will give you a more solid punch. Especially if it has a little weight like the quarters.

monkeyfoot

12-27-2005, 04:50 PM

Im thinking you are a troll.....but

Learning to use a sword, staff or steel whip is still practical to this day and age. Yes we will not be walking around with swords at our side to use when a confrontation arises but we can still take the principles of each weapon and use them to our advantage.

staff - broom handle, tree branch/stick, metal pole, washing pole

sword - short stick, pointed piece of plastic, umbrella

steel whip - bike chain, metal chain of any sort

you see, you may not have the exact weapon, but you can apply the principles of what you are learning to many common items. Oh and credit cards/keys work too.

craig

SanHeChuan

12-27-2005, 06:56 PM

Weapons only complicate thing this day in age. One, there are the legal concerns, especially if your “opponent” didn’t have a weapon, at which point “victim” becomes a more appropriate moniker.

Two, when you’re wielding a weapon your focus, mind, Yi is to attack with that weapon. You become less focused on defense and the other person’s weapon, and are more likely to get injured. It takes more weapons training than usually provided to overcome this.
I’d rather face a knife with bare hands than with a knife of my own.

There was this really cool leather wallet chain that I saw in oki that I thought would make a good improvised weapon. :D

syn

12-27-2005, 11:07 PM

Well if I'm attacked at home I've got plenty of traditional weapons I could use.

Mr Punch

12-28-2005, 04:27 AM

some ideas:
money (shuriken)Sure. If you take the time to sharpen them beforehand. Otherwise you're just throwing er... money at them... If you're gonna try that and you've got the time to take your wallet out just drop a note on the floor and hope that they bend down for it so you can kick em in the head! :D

creditcard ( to cut with )Again. Try it. Bloody useless unless you've bent it and twisted it till it's broken and when are you gonna do that!?

mp3??Yes, obviously these tiny pieces of micromachinery are quite lethal... especially in the hands of say, Q. I like to use the MI6 optional micronuke switch.

mobile phone? Again, gone are the days of a mobile the size and weight of a house brick. Now, since they are designed to be as small and light as possible and generally fall apart if you drop them, don't think they'll do you much good in the self defence stakes... unless you meant to run, hide and use said mobile phone to call the police - now, I think you may be onto something there!

Having said that, a friend of mine was attacked by muggers who grabbed his phone as he was using it and he put them down using the wrist lock as seen in Under Seige 2, without thinking. That was in the days of bigger mobiles though.

Nowadays, your best bet in using them as a weapon is to hit someone with them, hope they break and you then have a sharp edge, but it seems like a pain in the arse to me.

jacket?Again, time and opportunity are the biggest factors here. You could throw your jacket over their heads, but that's only if you're a good shot, if you're prepared to follow it up instantly (ie use it as a distraction) and only if you're carrying it at the time of attack... otehrwise you're rendering yourself defenseless as you take it off (my grandma chinned someone who was taking off their jacket once).
I think the way of fighting is changing so should weapons, at least for street fighting or defens on the street is concerned..The best is still a short stick, or a very short stick. Personally, I'm not gonna waste time when the **** hits the fan looking for/picking up a weapon but I tend to notice short sticks automatically cos they're everywhere. I automatically tightly roll newspapers/magazines if I'm carrying them too... just out of habit. The best techs to learn are for these two types of weapon. A very short stick (yawara/kubotan) is marv and easy to use/lose afterwards.

Whoever said keys has never tried using keys. Try it. Hit something hard with them and you're just as likely to cut your hand to ****.

I've always said the bottom line is you need to be able to fight nakedThat's how I always train. But I'm baaad. My hands and feet are lethal weapons. Wah.

monkeyfoot

12-28-2005, 05:33 AM

Whoever said keys has never tried using keys. Try it. Hit something hard with them and you're just as likely to cut your hand to ****.

Check the Crimbo issue of martial arts mag.

craig

Chizica

12-28-2005, 07:28 AM

how about Omei piercers, rope dart, meteor dart, chain whip(heavy I know). These could all be carried, albeit, concealed is illegal, but if some punk tried to take your wives purse or your wallet, so long as he wasn't armed, and you whip out one of the weapons, chances are highly likely the punk is going to turn tail and run.

SevenStar

12-28-2005, 10:26 AM

That's what I don't mean, you want to bring stuff with you to protect. I mean what can you use if you don't take with you anything other than the usual and what can you do with it ;)

boy scouts motto: be prepared... The things that you mentioned will not function effectively as weapons - you'd be better off empty handed. Carry a weapon with you, if you want to have a weapon handy.

And yes I've got a keychain with flashlight that's indeed good aswell. first blind the opponent then hit..

Nah, that's probably not bright enough. get a light that is around 115 lumen or more.

TAO YIN

12-28-2005, 10:45 AM

Watch out for math teachers who carry a compass, 2 pencils, and a coffee cup or thermos. :) English teachers with fountain pens...

Better watch out for those magnifying glassers too. Science teachers who know bjj and will only fight in the sunlight... Good skills, good skills. All of them should be excellent smokers and have excellent smoking skills as well. I have known a few who could flick a cherry right into a pupil.

Happy New Year in a few

SevenStar

12-28-2005, 10:49 AM

A very short stick (yawara/kubotan) is marv and easy to use/lose afterwards.

The tactical flashlight can also be a substitute for a kubotan. blind them with the light, hit them with the butt of the shaft.

wuqigong

12-28-2005, 11:38 AM

nice comments, thank you. You all got a point. To scare someone you could also do a 540 kick or some flashy stuff instead of always taking your chain whip with you.

Lots of things will be useless since you can use your barehands just as good.

A jacket, flashlight or coins are good to distract and attack right after distraction.

And I think it's definetly true that you put your attention away from defending if you will focus on the weapon. But therefore you just have to learn how to fight with your weapons as if they were a part of you.

I think I'll just use my own body and if the opponent is to strong or forms a serious threathment I'd throw some coins, use my jacket or blind with the flashlight I have(it's strong enough) if there's nothing better around. Then I can win some time and run away..

syn

12-28-2005, 03:02 PM

Wel this guy just basically intimidated the other guy, and he mainly avoided most of his punches and then took him down with one. I thihnk the whole intimidation think helped alot though.

http://my.break.com/Content/ViewContentPublic.aspx?ContentID=tXnD57jetN1SYlJu5 exlmg%3d%3d&ContentTitle=He+Was+Kung+Fu+Fighting&ContentURL=http%3a%2f%2fmedia1.break.com%2fdnet%2f media%2fcontent%2fkungfufighter.wmv

SevenStar

12-28-2005, 03:23 PM

nice comments, thank you. You all got a point. To scare someone you could also do a 540 kick or some flashy stuff instead of always taking your chain whip with you.

umm... No. Presence causes intimidation. For example, since I am built, many guys at the club I work will not even think about messing with me. I've even had a guy tell me that he would whoop my ass if I wasn't so big. Look confident. Look strong. This is what will intimidate them. Throwing a 540 kick will just get you tackled.

Lots of things will be useless since you can use your barehands just as good.

And lots have use, just nothing in that initial list, except MAYBE the jacket, provided the opportunity presents itself. It's even better if it's HIS jacket - pull it ovver his head and hit him while he can't see.

I think I'll just use my own body and if the opponent is to strong or forms a serious threathment I'd throw some coins, use my jacket or blind with the flashlight I have(it's strong enough) if there's nothing better around. Then I can win some time and run away..

if it's a keychain, I doubt it's strong enough, but that's on you. I've got $15 dollar flashlights that aren't that bright. The one that is bright enough is a tactical that I paid $40 for. The problem with coins, the jacket, etc. is that you have to have the time to get them ready, if they are not already in your hand. You likely will not have that kind of time to spare.

PangQuan

12-28-2005, 03:25 PM

my roomate carries a steel fighting fan with him practically everywhere he goes, along with a whip chain, and his fists and feet.

you just have to learn the right weapons if you want to use chinese martial art weapon in modern day.

me...i dont carry anything. but i look at my surroundings every where i go and look for weapons i can use.

syn

12-28-2005, 03:26 PM

How effective are fans really? I mean it would seem hard to cut or even fight at all with.

PangQuan

12-28-2005, 03:36 PM

its not about cutting.

the fan, when closed, is basically a foot long piece of steel. the boom it emits when opened will suprise anyone not expecting it, if this happens, HELLO SIDEKICK, it is very loud. then when its open, it can easily double as a shield.

these are the most basic examples of application as a weapon. there are others. not to mention when its hot out you can walk around with it already drawn.

syn

12-28-2005, 03:45 PM

But let's say if you block with it wouldn't the paper just tear, or is it much more sturdy than that? Not to get off topic I've just always really been curious as to how someone uses it in fight.

hskwarrior

12-28-2005, 03:50 PM

the fan is actually a pretty good weapon from a street fighter point of view.

you cannot go to jail for having a steel fan. but i can be used when closed as a short little steel stick, able to deflect baseball bats, knives, sticks, or even punches.

don't knock it until you try it.

PangQuan

12-28-2005, 03:53 PM

In a combat fan its not paper, you would use a type of strudy canvas, or silk. both very strong fabrics immune to simple tearing.

the spines only rest roughly an inch apart when open so it doesnt leave much room to work with anyhow.

even with thrusting with a knife, you can only go so far as up to your fist, so the blade would need to be long enough. Also if the blade is caught between the spines a simple twist and the assailant is disarmed.

syn

12-28-2005, 03:56 PM

I'll have to get one and try it out sometime. I wasn't saying it's a bad weapon I was just curious as to how it's used and how effective it is.

PangQuan

12-28-2005, 03:57 PM

ya, check one out sometime.

you can even get bamboo fans. not as strong or heavy but still pretty good.

Im always happy to share any knowledge i have with fellow practitioners.

after all, thats what its all about right? sharing info to be the best we can.:)

Ou Ji

12-28-2005, 05:05 PM

You might have the wrong impression about how to fight with a fan. Most of the time it will be closed, you wouldn't try to block a punch with an open fan.

Hold it closed with about an inch sticking out the bottom of your fist. Makes for a very penetrating hammerfist.

Attack pressure points and nerve endings. Strike, poke, hammer, and the open fan can be used to temporarily blind (as in put it in front of his face so he can't see while you kick him in the jimmy).

PangQuan

12-28-2005, 05:49 PM

put your forarm behind the fan to brace it and you will be suprised at what you can block.

not saying this is a primary function, as personally id rather stop hit with the fan. but it is possible.

syn

12-28-2005, 06:34 PM

Speaking of pressure points are there any good websites that help point out specific useful pressure pounts you can use? Or a quality website that just explains pressure points in general?

Dim Wit Mak

12-28-2005, 06:46 PM

I carry a folding knife. When I walk at night I also use a cane or walking stick (Bo Staff). My knees aren't in great shape so it serves a dual purpose.

In your vehicle you could carry a hammer, claw gardening tool, and a baseball bat without too many questions being asked. Put a baseball glove with a ball in it in the car to make your story more believable. If questions are asked, these are all things you can justify. Do not use the word "weapon" with any authority types.

Royal Dragon

12-28-2005, 07:48 PM

I carry a knife, and I make my daughter carry pepper spray cut 50% with military grade tear gas. And I don't care if she is not allowed to carry it to school. I'd rather have her sneak it in and out and have it when she needs it, than not.

syn

12-28-2005, 09:02 PM

I'd have to check Texas weapon laws, but maybe I could keep my tiger hook swords in the car. I have a staff I take on walks alot. But if I were in a tight spot, I owuld find a rock of reaosnable size, throw it at them, and while they're distracted get in their inside and take them down.

neit

12-30-2005, 01:38 AM

because of my current employment (plumber) i carry heavy pliers, a wrench and a boxcutter most of the time. i also have a hatchet in my trunk with a leather sheath over the blade that i believe would do some good yet non lethal damage.

heh i used to be a butcher, would'nt want to jump one of those either.

Mr Punch

12-30-2005, 01:43 AM

Check the Crimbo issue of martial arts mag.

craigNope, don't have it, and I'm not going to order it from over here, so if it isn't online perhaps you could enlighten us as to what it says!?

In my experience, keys are a pretty useless as a weapon.

Mr Punch

12-30-2005, 01:45 AM

Mr Punch

12-30-2005, 01:46 AM

The tactical flashlight can also be a substitute for a kubotan. blind them with the light, hit them with the butt of the shaft.Yeah, like I said, they're everywhere! I like my little maglight: just sticks out on each side of my fist and is really tough.

syn

12-30-2005, 11:47 AM

It'd probably be pretty hard to blind someone in the middle of the day, but I could see a maglight doing some damage.

PangQuan

12-30-2005, 11:56 AM

mini mags mag a great fist pack, not to mention the 3/4 inch wide metal nub that sticks out the bottom of your hand can do some damage in itself.

paradoxbox

12-30-2005, 12:07 PM

An LED flashlight will blind someone temporarily if it gets in their eyes.

As for money shuriken, why not? Shuriken don't need to be sharp, they just have to distract and annoy long enough to let you do something else. And whoever you're throwing them at doesn't know it's a hand full of change, for all they know you could have a pocket full of nails or poison or whatever! Especially at night, a reaching-into-pocket-and-throwing action will make almost anyone flinch regardless of what's actually thrown.

Jackets are useful for removing someones sight, tying someone up, striking and annoying. I know people who can actually tie a person up in about half a second if they get too close. Difficult to do. But doing a 'jersey' move on someone (watch hockey fights and you'll see it) just pull someones shirt over their head, or do this with your or their jacket then move in and do something else.

Keys are ok but not ideal because for one, they're small, two, they're likely to break if you use them as a weapon and three they're not conveniently held, so it may be possible that you hurt yourself with them in trying to use them as a weapon.

I would not recommend a credit card for trying to cut someone with, keys would be a much better choice. Credit cards would be an ok distraction if you're good at throwing them. A quick, very high rotation throw to their eyes will make em flinch. And trust me it hurts more than it looks like if it hits you, especially on the brige of the nose.

A metal pen can be used like a tessen (japanese fan), but make sure it's durable enough before trying. You can use it to lock small joints or use it to hit pressure points, or you can use it like a shuriken. I figure you might as well hold onto it and hit pressure points in the face and neck with it, as those sturdy, heavily made German pens hitting someone just below the nose will make a lot of people cooperate pretty quick.

Kind of a useless ploy but worth a shot, the clear, rectangular bic lighters explode if you throw em at the ground hard enough, so throw one at the feet of your adversary and if you're lucky it'll surprise them. Don't get any crazy ideas, it's a tiny explosion and won't even burn them but it might buy you a second or two to do something. But it might not, so as always don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Yelling unnexpectedly, pretty basic stuff here, kiai, but you should only do this if you're about to maul them or they're about to hit you and you want to counter attack. The yell will be rendered useless if you were both spouting insults immediately before the confrontation, but if it was fairly silent up to the point of violence a very solid yell will startle almost everyone. Especially if the area is quiet (i.e. park, dark street, night time atm location).

One thing I have personally used to save my bacon was a can of soup, I was carrying groceries back to my home and was confronted by a group of around 6-10 people at about 9pm at night, completely dark around me. So I grabbed a can of soup and hucked it at one of their heads, the soup smashed (I thought I'd killed him, but it was just the soup can exploding) and the group scattered. So if you've ever just gone shopping and you're being attacked consider using one of the items you just bought to throw at the bad guy.

The last thing I should mention is that if your country allows concealed carry of firearms, you should buy one and have it with you at all times. For all the MA training you have, if someone with a rifle is standing 50 feet away from you, there isn't anything you can do to stop the situation if you don't have a gun or some long range weapon on you. Running will save yourself but it won't save anyone else around you. So consider that in all these hypothetical scenarios.

Make it a genuine effort to always have some kind of range extender on your person, whether it be a gun, a set of shuriken or throwing knives, or a crossbow or a catapult, whatever, just try to always have something that will allow you to bring the fight to a bad guy as far away as you can.

PangQuan

12-30-2005, 12:26 PM

im a big fan of throwing my flying sidekick :D

syn

12-30-2005, 12:31 PM

I wouldn't do a flying sidekick if it's what I think your talking about, because it's obvious and they can dodge it, and while you're in mid air they can move to whatever position to get an advantage or just shoot/stab you. I rather just get in close and knock them down.

Ou Ji

12-30-2005, 12:32 PM

Personally, I like throwing a party. I'm not sure how that will help when you're getting mugged though.
;)

syn

12-30-2005, 12:35 PM

I found being under the influence or intoxicated really improves and makes your drunken style authentic. :)

GeneChing

12-30-2005, 01:04 PM

I used to carry a blade everywhere, but then I got in a situation where I was brandishing and this other guy was brandishing, and it was just ridiculous. I stopped carrying one after that.

I used to carry an odd assortment of tools when I frequented worse neighborhoods. My favorite was a paint can/beer bottle opener that happened to fit neatly in my fist.

Now I don't carry anything but pocket change. Sometimes I don't even have that anymore. BTW, when I was in junior high, another student hit me in the face with some flung pocket change in a schoolyard fight. A penny caught me on the lip and stopped me cold. If that kid had any follow up, it would have been bad for me, but we were both kids and I think he was as shocked that his ploy worked as I was.

syn

12-30-2005, 01:07 PM

Yeah I think if I was caught in a situation where we both had knives I'd say "You know what I don't want to die and I'msure you don't, so how about we just not fight?"

GeneChing

12-30-2005, 03:04 PM

We both pulled knives and glared at each other. Our friends jumped in immediately and separated us. It was over a 'dirty look' basically, and it was in College. As I remember it, the other guy basically started on this 'you lookin' at me?!' sort of trip and pulled a knife and started waving it about. I pulled mine and there we were at one of those macho stand-offs, both looking for an out. I like to think I could wave a knife about better than he could, and I like to think that intimidated him into hesitating, which gave our friends the chance to separate us. Ha! Who says forms are useless?

It was a very stupid thing to do on both our parts, but we were drunk at this College party. Anyway, later I realized that if I didn't have a knife, the situation wouldn't have escalated. I would have just left. I never saw that guy again, but I have a sneaking suspicion it was David Ross. Just kidding. ;)

PangQuan

12-30-2005, 04:31 PM

Personally, I like throwing a party. I'm not sure how that will help when you're getting mugged though.
;)

with a large enough party, you have an army of drunken soldiers. I would be afraid of that.

btw i can throw a flying sidekick standing still. all i need is the same distance one would need for a reg sidekick. its all about set up.

ill spit in thier eye then sidekick em in chest. why reach into your pocket for a penny when a lugie is just on the tip of your tounge?

:p

PangQuan

12-30-2005, 04:44 PM

Mr Punch

12-30-2005, 07:00 PM

if your ever walking somewhere and you are weapon less, and you feel the need to have some small protection just look to the ground.

as long as you are in a city where there are street sweepers that clean then there will be plenty of street sweeper blades lying around.

you can slip one of those little puppies in someones gut pretty easy. and chances are no one would even see it until its too late.
See, this is what I'm talking about...

Say it goes like this:

1) Guy approaches you asking what time it is.
2) Reasonable seeming guy, there are a few people on the street but it's dark: he comes to a reasonable distance, maybe three steps away.
3) You look and tell him the time.
4) You wonder for a split second (too long) why he's still staring at you...
5) "What you looking at?" BAM

So when exactly do you get out the change/keys, take off the jacket, look around and pick up a street cleaning blade (whatever that is)?

Or do you just beat the **** out of anyone who asks you the time?! :D

So are you saying to me that you wanna pick up the street cleaning blade every time you go down a dark street? In which case it's a) pre-meditated and b) you may as well just carry a blade!

Are you saying you'll have time to look round for anything? I wanna be looking at the guy in front of me!

Are you saying you wanna be walking around with your hands in your pockets in case you need to throw some change? I don't want my hands in my pockets if somebody's pushing me around.

Any strategy that involves looking around for something is useless. As I've said , I've already made it a habit to notice what's around on the floor. Not out of paranoia but because I'm naturally observant. Even that doesn't mean I'm gonna get time to get to it. And even then appearances are deceptive; walking my dog the number of times I've picked up a strong solid looking stick to find it's rotten and crumbled in my hands don't want counting!

Any strategy that involves quickly reaching in and pulling something out of your pocket is useless unless you've practised it a thousand times. That's why there are drills in knife schools to train you to take out and lock your knife quickly, and why there are drills in gun schools teaching you to draw your gun quickly. If you want to waste your time practising taking your change out and throwing it at someone a thousand times that's your business, but I'd prefer to hit the heavy bag for a thousand punches in bunches.

And paradoxbox, anybody intent on taking your money or your life will NOT flinch when you put your hand in your pocket. They'll kick the crap out of you.

paradoxbox

01-03-2006, 06:39 PM

See, this is what I'm talking about...

And paradoxbox, anybody intent on taking your money or your life will NOT flinch when you put your hand in your pocket. They'll kick the crap out of you.

I strongly disagree. Any person with the ability to think will see this movement as a threat. The most immediate thing that comes to their mind is that you are reaching for a gun or a knife, especially if you reach in a way that conceals what is in your hand. At least, that's the way it is in north america. People in a place where violence isn't a problem won't respond the same way. Likewise, people high or drunk probably won't respond the same way. I personally experienced this several months ago when a lunatic invaded my home, came through my window and held something in his hand (appeared to), and stood in a way that concealed what was in his hand, I was immediately threatened just because of the way he was standing, regardless of what he had in his hand (I never found out). This was broad daylight in my own home.

But go try it for yourself on a dark street. Stop in front of some strangers, reach into left pocket with your right hand and try to look tough about it. There's no way in hell that is an innocent looking act, not even to someone who wants to hurt you. It might make someone think twice about coming closer. They know you're about to pull something out, and they know that it's probably something that is dangerous to them. And it puts you in a position to actually retrieve a weapon from your pocket. If someone is actually intent on killing you, you should be using every single weapon you have available to you including spare change and keys, if you don't have something more lethal on your person at the time. Of course, if someone is REALLY bent on killing you, you shouldn't give them any warning at all, just slice a major artery without giving them a chance, but these hypothetical encounters never work that way...

Sifu Darkfist

01-03-2006, 09:53 PM

hmm, you sound a bit like the Tokugawa period Japanese, with your lets not carry a gun routine. (they got far didnt they:rolleyes: )
I’ve got news for you, in the U.S. if you get attacked the chances of facing a gun are very high so i say a gun IS the answer.

a good place is in your back where your wallet is== "gimmie your wallet!" ok, ok here!

of course you need to train it as much as or more than your Martial arts. opps correction it is your martial arts.

Liberalism has its limits and this movement toward disarming the good guys crosses waaayyyy over it.

So rule number one avoid places where there might be conflict or hazards
rule number two the bigger the caliber the better the stopping power
rule number three train your gun harder than your Jian or Dao
and of course do not break the law or do things that might take away your privilege to carry a weapon

nothing personal It just mileads people into thinking it is criminal to carry when the same old arguement against is the only thing heard

Dim Wit Mak

01-03-2006, 10:35 PM

I picked up a spring loaded baton in honolulu a couple years ago, fits in the pocket nicely, just don't get caught brandishing it or you will be severely punished here in california.

Man, would I love to get ahold of a ballistic knife. I used to see them advertised in magazines, but I think they are illegal everywhere now. They would probably be fairly easy to make.

SimonM

01-03-2006, 10:38 PM

Um....

First you must remember that only a fool carries a weapon they are not willing to use. OK? Got that?

If you are not 100% committed to stabbing or shooting somebody than more likely than not your knife or gun will be used against you in an altercation.

Second you should consider the laws of your region. Here in China walking around with chucks on your person is not so much of a problem in Canada you'd get your ass in the cooler for that.

Third... A knife. Knives are simple, multi-purpose tools with a set of effective self-defense applications that don't require any modification to the tool. Not a switchblade or a folding blade or anything too large to fit in a pocket. Just a small, two edged, knive may be the most effective self defense tool....

Of course you had best not pull it unless you have both legal impetus and willingness to sink it into somebody.

Mr Punch

01-03-2006, 11:09 PM

I strongly disagree.Fair enough.

Any person with the ability to think will see this movement as a threat. The most immediate thing that comes to their mind is that you are reaching for a gun or a knife, especially if you reach in a way that conceals what is in your hand.Yep, and any person who wants to attack you cos they want your money or they're on drugs or both will respond to this threat by attacking immediately.

At least, that's the way it is in north america. Yep, the places I've lived in the UK too.

Likewise, people high or drunk probably won't respond the same way.That's most people who are going to attack you in the street in the UK anyway. Them plus sociopaths who will also have no compunction in flattening you.

I personally experienced this several months ago ...I don't really see the relevance of your personal example; you're not a stone cold thug. From my personal experience of being attacked in the street and reaching meaningfully into my pocket (this has happened to me two times), once it worked with a gang of four street kids, and once it didn't with a big knife-wielding crackhead. Fifty-fifty doesn't sound like too good odds to me, when the times I've been approached and in the above scenario it's been me that's gone BAM I've had 100% success.

But go try it for yourself on a dark street. Stop in front of some strangers, ...See above explanation. I've tried it for real - none of your hypotheticals here. And not with a group of innocent strangers who were not intent on stabbing/beating me. Of course it'll work on your ordinary citizens.

And it puts you in a position to actually retrieve a weapon from your pocket. Yeah, if you have one, then that's the only thing we can agree on here. And like I said in my above post - you need to practice drawing, otherwise it's pointless, and so likewise, the act of putting your hand into your pocket should be fast enough to make it nothing more than a means to an end.

If someone is actually intent on killing you, you should be using every single weapon you have available to you including spare change and keys, if you don't have something more lethal on your person at the time. ..They are not weapons or useful as such. That is why I would use my hand which is, and is faster! Plus, if I'm gonna fake throwing anything an empty opening palm coming towards them has a similar flinch effect to actually throwing small change, and that palm again takes no preparation! Like I said, if you want to waste your time practising and throwing small change at dangerous attackers, it's your funeral, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

SimonM

01-03-2006, 11:25 PM

Gotta agree with Mat on this one. No weapon is better than a dumb weapon by far. Many times no weapon is better than a good weapon (see my and Gene's comments on knives). Throwing small change is a dumb weapon. Any weapon training takes time. Train on weapons that are either: A: Practical, B: Useful for skill transferrence or C: at least fun to train with.:D

paradoxbox

01-04-2006, 04:46 AM

>I don't really see the relevance of your personal example; you're not a stone cold thug. From my personal experience of being attacked in the street and reaching meaningfully into my pocket (this has happened to me two times), once it worked with a gang of four street kids, and once it didn't with a big knife-wielding crackhead. Fifty-fifty doesn't sound like too good odds to me, when the times I've been approached and in the above scenario it's been me that's gone BAM I've had 100% success.<

So you are saying that, when you don't have a knife or gun, you would rather not get an extra 50% chance of stopping a potential attack? Great. You've proved my point, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but in the end you're going to fight so you might as well try anything. And by the way, where does that crackhead expect you to put your hands if he wants your money? :rolleyes: Reaching into your pocket isn't rocket science, you're not doing speed knife drawing drills here, you're putting your hand in your pocket, which is something a 4 year old has the coordination to do easily enough.

By the way, that intruder in my home? I did the exact same thing with him, except he probably knew what it was I was holding in my hand (I wanted to give him the option to leave without getting hurt). He made the wrong choice and moved toward me so I cut him. Pretty simple, I 'reached into my pocket' so to speak, he escalated and I ended the situation, he ran away. Who's to say you are any better off if you don't have a weapon? You never know if they're going to try to kill you or not. By the way, I am pretty sure the intruder was a crackhead, judging by his weight, grey hair and messed up skin. And on the legal side I am in the clear with the police for my actions.

I would re-evaluate your stance on the effectiveness of making reaching motions for a weapon. Sure, if you don't have a weapon you're in big trouble, but then again, if you were doing it in the first place you are already in big trouble. Look on concealed handgun carry forums, a great deal of CHL holders will move their hands to their sidearms or even brandish them if a situation becomes bad enough. It's often enough to stop a bad situation. Sometimes it's not and you have to resort to other means. But it is a tool that can sometimes be used with success, varying success depending on the situation (as I stated in my original post and as you said yourself, worked at least 50% of the time). In my mind 50% is a hell of a lot better than 0%. Even if you don't have a weapon you may be able to stop the situation entirely, or it may have the opposite effect, but I don't think someone would try it unless they know they are in serious trouble, making it a moot point.

If you try using your hand against someone on meth you're probably going to lose. You'd better know some good throws, locks or chokes to put them out because strikes aren't going to do anything but **** them off. Neither is slashing them in a nonlethal way. Gravity, headshots or stopped blood supply are about the only things that make meth heads go down.

Sifu Darkfist

01-04-2006, 12:00 PM

>

Gravity, headshots or stopped blood supply are about the only things that make meth heads go down.

Quite clearly a good case against the popular 9 mill handgun with its higher muzzle velocity.

on the other hand
A 45 with hollowpoint rounds will drop all men crack, meth, big and small. Head shot body shot arm shot it really doesnt matter it is a combat proven stopper. and much faster than a knife.

The compromise that many law enforcement agencies are making is the 40 S&W round. it is controllable by weaker shooters and packs a nice wallop with slower velocity for great knockdown.

PangQuan

01-04-2006, 12:32 PM

if you read my post im talking about a situation where you all of a sudden feel like you are going in the wrong direction or just feel the need for a small weapon when you are weapon less.

im not suggesting you try and find one once you have contact with another person, thats crazy. I stated that if your walking around and all of a sudden want a weapon thats small, hard to notice, then you find one, while your still able. then just keep it in your hand.

situation:

dude is walking in an area of town he has not been before, just got out of his "meeting" and now its dark. Dude feels un easy, has no weapon for what ever reason, says to himself "i want a weapon" finds a ssb and keeps it palmed. now if anyone does try to mess with him and doesnt shoot him on spot, he can stick in in a stomach and run.

very simple idea. dont assume i mean to stop in the middle of an altercation to find one. thats just silly talk.

personally if i plan to have a weapon on my person and i am able its a handgun. dont need any macho act to pretend im tough. IF you get past my gun then you still have to deal with a martial artist.

Its all about state of the art weaponry. Always has been, always will be.

paradoxbox

01-04-2006, 01:47 PM

Quite clearly a good case against the popular 9 mill handgun with its higher muzzle velocity.

on the other hand
A 45 with hollowpoint rounds will drop all men crack, meth, big and small. Head shot body shot arm shot it really doesnt matter it is a combat proven stopper. and much faster than a knife.

The compromise that many law enforcement agencies are making is the 40 S&W round. it is controllable by weaker shooters and packs a nice wallop with slower velocity for great knockdown.

I agree with this, in fact the advantages of 9mm dissapear with the availability of 45ACP high capacity handguns, where you might have up to 13-17 rounds of 45 caliber ammunition compared to a 9mm's 13-17. The bigger the hole the better, against meth heads, and with the low muzzle velocity you don't have to worry about blowing a hole through your target and 50 rows of parked cars behind him like you might have to with a tokarev 7.62x25mm or .357.

GeneChing

01-04-2006, 02:48 PM

I just don't feel the need to carry them around all the time. Hell, I don't even carry a cell phone. I'd walk around nekkid if they'd let me. Ok, just kidding again. It's worthy of note that my desk here is surrounded with easy-2-reach weapons. It's a weird affectation I've had since I used to work as a swordmaker where we used to feign attacks against each other to dispel the ennui. But I don't carry anything unless I'm going in a particularly high risk neighborhood, nor do I keep anything in my car.

Speaking of meth heads, I do psych work for the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic. I've had to restrain meth heads, and all sort of other drug abusers. I've never used any weapons in that, except for soft restraints or a bandana.

paradoxbox

01-04-2006, 02:59 PM

Were they high on crystal meth and in an agitated state when you needed to restrain them?

I have observed the exact opposite, they are usually completely out of control and if agitated enough they are nearly unstoppable except if you can lock their joints in such a way that they cannot resist or thrown in a way that cannot be muscled out of (laws of gravity and physics, strength loses every time). I've seen police videos of people high on meth taking bullet after bullet after bullet, they just kept coming until finally someone gets a vitals shot or they bleed out.

PangQuan

01-04-2006, 03:15 PM

I will personally rarely every carry a weapon.

dont need it. if i die i die. im ok with that.

i own a lot of weapons, and were a battle premeditated or i needed revenge id surely grab my blow dart collection and head to war. i would just rather not deal with it everyday and die if i die. (with my cold dead hands around my enemys throat, and his knife in my chest)

I do however keep the most deadly tool i posess on me at all times. My brain. well, i usually have that on me anyhow.

Mr Punch

01-04-2006, 07:11 PM

Quite clearly a good case against the popular 9 mill handgun with its higher muzzle velocity...Any chance of you stopping dribbling on trying to turn this into a gun debate? Look at the thread topic. Think. Try and write something relevant.

And BTW you live in one of the only countries in the world where guns are legal to carry (I want to say the only but I don't know). Congratulations. Is that because you live in the free-est country? The most democratic? Or just another country with its own unique socio-historical and political background? Frankly I don't give a ****! You're in the minority. If you want to carry, go ahead... that's your right and preoragative under the laws of your country. I've lived in two countries with no right-to-carry laws so it really isn't relevant to me or the vast majority of the world.

Sorry, perhaps as you haven't been around long enough on this board you don't know the number of gun law arguments on here. Do a search please.

Mr Punch

01-04-2006, 07:32 PM

Paradoxbox, good post.

But
So you are saying that, when you don't have a knife or gun, you would rather not get an extra 50% chance of stopping a potential attack? ... no I wasn't saying an extra 50%. I was saying I'd had 50% success with that tactic and 100% without it. That does not mean an extra 50%... or does it, my stats aren't as hot as they were in my college years (and they were only lukewarm then! :D )

Reaching into your pocket isn't rocket science, you're not doing speed knife drawing drills here, you're putting your hand in your pocket, which is something a 4 year old has the coordination to do easily enough.
OK, good point. But in your posts before it sounded like a carefully studied strategy not just a quick action...

But I'm still kind of wondering; if you have a weapon you're gonna wanna pull it ASAP. If you don't have a weapon, you're gonna wanna show the perp you're putting your hand in your pocket... anyonebody who's been round the block will know the difference - so is that not even more dangerous?

Anyway, now I can see where you're coming from a bit but it boils down to this:
but in the end you're going to fight so you might as well try anything... and for me, the 'anything' I wanna try is not reaching into my pocket but is quickly and simply punching him in the face and running, depending on the case of course.

And by the way, where does that crackhead expect you to put your hands if he wants your money? :rolleyes:I wondered the same thing...! :D I didn't stop to ask him and crackhead logic is not my field of expertise, but he said 'Gimme you money' and as I put my hand in my pocket he hit at me.

Look on concealed handgun carry forums, a great deal of CHL holders will move their hands to their sidearms or even brandish them if a situation becomes bad enough. It's often enough to stop a bad situation. Fair enough. But what you're talking about is extremely specific to wherever it is you're at, or wherever it is with concealed carry laws. Which excludes the vast majority of the world. People say 'a polite society is an armed society'. Even though I don't necessarily agree, I can of course see the logic: if I thought my prey was carrying I can see why that may stop me: but like I say, not relevant to most of the world (or America? - don't know the state by state gun breakdown and it's not relevant to this argument).

If you try using your hand against someone on meth you're probably going to lose...Like I said, I've been forced to try my hand on many druggies and have never (touchwood) been seriously injured. I've never p!ss tested them to find out exactly what they were on, but in my experience, unless you are armed, the best way of dealing with any druggies is to throw them hard on the ground. More chance of breaking something (which even if they don't know about it will often slow them down) and more chance of disorientating them.

SimonM

01-04-2006, 07:46 PM

Any chance of you stopping dribbling on trying to turn this into a gun debate? Look at the thread topic. Think. Try and write something relevant.
.

Darkfist has been around for a while. He just has guns on the brain.

Come to think of it I don't think I have ever seen a Darkfist post that doesn't mention firearms. Just ignore him.

Ou Ji

01-04-2006, 07:51 PM

... and for me, the 'anything' I wanna try is not reaching into my pocket but is quickly and simply punching him in the face and running, depending on the case of course.

I think part of the disagreement here is that you're each discussing a different scenerio.

In one the perp is within range, and you're in his range. If you're close enough to hit him, and he's close enough to hit you, then hands in pocket is probably a bad idea. Unless he backs off when you make a move for your pocket but it's shaky.

If you're observent and aware of your surroundings then you shouldn't be that close. Putting your hand in your pocket could indicate the you're about to pull a weapon if the perp gets too close.

If he doesn't buy it and moves within range then get your hand out and fight. Unless you really do have a weapon in your pocket. :-)

Ou Ji

01-04-2006, 07:55 PM

Darkfist is a gun nut?

I like whoever said 45 cal with +P Hydroshocks. :-)

Ok, I'm a bit of a gun nut. So double tap me.

hellhound

01-05-2006, 02:38 PM

I carry mace and I keep my keys on a chain with a clip on the other end to use as a chain whip.

Edit: Oh and I used a car key before. It broke in the first 30-60 seconds of striking with it and cut up the inside of my hand since I did not know it was broken right away. It adds sting but not for long and is a double edged sword.

Sifu Darkfist

01-05-2006, 02:58 PM

[QUOTE=Mat] Look at the thread topic. Think. Try and write something relevant.

QUOTE]

No offense but the topic is WEAPONS FOR NOW. NOW NOW NOW
relevance is established in this country of 290 million people with well over 15,000 gun homicides a year. Reality for many on this board.

I do not feel our scene is superior here in the USA. I do not believe in ethnocentrism (such as many societies cough cough JAPAN). I beleive in realism. We have many individuals that wish others harm. Maybe its because we are so diverse maybe its greed, maybe its our barbaric ways. However i have 2 daughters and a wife and im not going to gamble my credit card fu or "key" fu is superior on the street after a wonderful family meal.

let us send all the criminals over there (to Japan) or better yet let us institute the swift Justice of Communist China on these maniacs and ill put the Sig GSR away forever (unless i hunt for food).
Sorry if it upsets you that the U S is not ****GENIOUS and full of brotherly love. I happen to like the mixture myself and wouldnt trade it for the world.

So until those that feel superior to me relax and understand that this nation i live in is not about to change and become full of flowers and hippies, this debate will continue.

I was contributing a touch of reality here in the Much Hated and often imitated USA.

BTW, the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of gun toters or possibly millions here makes it difficult to invade as well as of yet No One has brought the fight to us (at least on the Mainland) so the multitude of arms is not always a bad thing. instead of ehtnocentism i waved the patriotic flag for All americans including people who live here that have decendants in your home land.

Please dont let your bias show, I for one would lose my life protecting your family from a perpetrator on my this soil without a second thought, even if you were just here on holiday and even if you hate America.

Mr Punch

01-06-2006, 05:45 AM

Darkfist has been around for a while. He just has guns on the brain.

Come to think of it I don't think I have ever seen a Darkfist post that doesn't mention firearms. Just ignore him.LOL, true that.

Sorry, I woke up without any coffee and forgot who Darkfist was for a minute! :D

Mr Punch

01-06-2006, 06:08 AM

No offense but the topic is WEAPONS FOR NOW. NOW NOW NOW Fair enough, and like I said I fully agree with your right and desire for carrying firearms... I'm just sick of the tens of right-to-carry debates on these boards, and this thread started out with an interesting DIFFERENT premise.

I do not feel our scene is superior here in the USA. Didn't say you did.

I do not believe in ethnocentrism (such as many societies cough cough JAPAN).... let us send all the criminals over there (to Japan)... Sorry if it upsets you that the U S is not ****GENIOUS and full of brotherly love.Now, what the Jesus H Flying Monkeys' **** has that got to do with anything in this thread or anything I said?:confused: I don't believe in ethnocentricism either, and it's one of the few things that drives me nuts about living in Japan, as a Brit thus coming from one of the first multi-ethnic societies. And the rest of your little Japan related tirade makes no ****ing sense either. WTF is with the sending criminals over to Japan statement? In fact, why the **** are you even mentioning Japan?

Oh that's right... it's because for some unknown reason you think I was/am in some way attacking the US and you feel you should respond by attacking Japan for its h0mogeneity (can't argue - it's a fact) and its brotherly love (not sure where this strange allusion to Japan being full of brotherly love comes in... it's not, but would it be a bad thing if it were? Maybe it's just another random strike out against hippies who you don't seem to like much either, as you irrelevantly point out later...!:rolleyes: ).

I beleive in realism.Glad you told me cos looking at the rest of your completely random belligerent tirade I wouldn't have known otherwise.

We have many individuals that wish others harm. Maybe its because we are so diverse maybe its greed, maybe its our barbaric ways.It's not going to be the diversity: UK is also diverse, as are many places... but wait, that's right - you're trying to drag me into the gun debate: I've already agreed with you, I'm not playing! :D

However i have 2 daughters and a wife and im not going to gamble my credit card fu or "key" fu is superior on the street after a wonderful family meal.Holy mother of cod! You wrote something about the subject! And you agreed with me that those 'weapons' are no good...! We ARE on the same thread!:p

or better yet let us institute the swift Justice of Communist China on these maniacs and ill put the Sig GSR away forever (unless i hunt for food).
I happen to like the mixture myself and wouldnt trade it for the world.

So until those that feel superior to me relax and understand that this nation i live in is not about to change and become full of flowers and hippies, this debate will continue.

I was contributing a touch of reality here in the Much Hated and often imitated USA.

BTW, the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of gun toters or possibly millions here makes it difficult to invade as well as of yet No One has brought the fight to us (at least on the Mainland) so the multitude of arms is not always a bad thing. instead of ehtnocentism i waved the patriotic flag for All americans including people who live here that have decendants in your home land.

Please dont let your bias show, I for one would lose my life protecting your family from a perpetrator on my this soil without a second thought, even if you were just here on holiday and even if you hate America.**** me, I can't really comment on the rest of the post, cos it's so ****ing random it looks like a Monty Python sketch. The comment about my home land I really don't understand, it's just too clever for me :rolleyes: ... and I've no idea where you got the idea that I hate the US, or that I was attacking the US, or what bias you were talking about, or why I would be attacking you on holiday, or where the Chinese communists come into it...

are you on drugs?!

You know, I came on this board today to apologise for going over the top (although guess what - I still don't want ANOTHER gun debate!) after Simon's very level post. And I found this... I wanted to let it go, but it really was ****ing hilarious!:D Congratulations, you've made my day.

Sifu Darkfist

01-06-2006, 08:03 AM

And BTW you live in one of the only countries in the world where guns are legal to carry (I want to say the only but I don't know). Congratulations. Is that because you live in the free-est country? The most democratic? Or just another country with its own unique socio-historical and political background? .

The point i was making is that this line of debate (above) is getting really old.
Every time an attribute of the USA is trampled upon because of what everyone assumes to be universal here, i am driven ****her to the right. I started out completely anti corporation and greed thus what they call here (Anti-American):rolleyes: but the continuous barrage of hey You Americans think your the greatest so we all hate you has eroded what used to be a passive man.

The whole Aura of the US has caused enemies, and inherent in your rant is hidden anomosity.
However i apoligize for getting p OOed. It just gets to the point where you get sick of all the anti American rants. my flag (bias)started to show thus my weakness as a human being.

As far as incoherent, my problem is not drugs at all, it is that i write hundreds of pages working on my degree and research, so when i come in here i take off the academic face and write through abstract thought process. This relieves many other things in life.

You are a highly intelligent man and i am sure you recognize the logic path (even though you prefer to drag my incoherent rant out). The blanks are easy to fill in for someone with creative instinct (which through your arguement i know you have).

I am just suprised you didnt blast my typoos and spelling hehehe (i am truly hanicapped when it comes to these areas) you must be slipping.

Oh btw, i still would glady give my life to help you and yours here in my homeland.

your ability to argue well has made me quite fond of your presence here on the board. at least you fight hard instead of take cheap shots (such as a certain expat)

rogue

01-06-2006, 08:19 AM

New details released in family-murder case; Police offer reward
By From NBC12 News
WWBT-TV

Disturbing new details are coming to light about the brutal murder of Bryan and Kathryn Harvey and their two daughters. Sources tell NBC12 there was more than one weapon used to take their lives. They say the weapons all came from inside the home.

Some in the neighborhood feared the Harvey family murders were a professional-style hit. Instead, sources say the killers were sloppy in taking the Harvey family’s lives.

While Richmond Police wait for the Medical Examiner to release the cause of death in the Harvey family murders, sources are detailing a gruesome scene.

Earlier this week, police told us all four family members were found bound with tape and that in addition to cuts to their throats, some suffered from trauma and cuts.

Sources now say the killer used a box-cutter style-knife and a hammer in the slayings. And, that the knife, hammer and tape all came from within the Harvey family home.

Richmond Police are using Virginia State Police and FBI criminal profilers to try and figure that out. They are also offering a $6,000 reward for any information on the case.

They’re interested in even the smallest bit of information on what took place on 31st and Chesterfield Sunday. Visitors to the home for a New Year’s Day picnic discovered something was wrong when they smelled smoke coming from the home.

Sources say smoke was found in some of the victims' lungs, meaning they were still breathing when the fire was set.

Police are calling the fire arson, but don't know exactly when the murderers set fire to the home. They hope your tips will help lead them to the murderers.

Detectives say they’ve received an enormous amount of useful information and are following up on more than 50 tips phoned in. The number to call: (804) 514-TIPS.

(c) 2006. Jefferson Pilot Communications Company of Virginia. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

© 2006 MSNBC.com
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10728794/

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1128769061393]FAmily of Four Murdered (http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1128769061393)

Mr Punch

01-07-2006, 09:08 AM

The point i was making is that this line of debate (above) is getting really old.
Every time an attribute of the USA is trampled upon because of what everyone assumes to be universal here, i am driven ****her to the right. I started out completely anti corporation and greed thus what they call here (Anti-American):rolleyes: but the continuous barrage of hey You Americans think your the greatest so we all hate you has eroded what used to be a passive man.

The whole Aura of the US has caused enemies, and inherent in your rant is hidden anomosity.
However i apoligize for getting p OOed. It just gets to the point where you get sick of all the anti American rants. I get it! In that case let me say I meant your country no animosity at all. Yeah, sure, sometimes I have quarrels with the US, who the hell wouldn't?! But then I also have plenty of quarrels with the govt/culture/corp concerns of the UK (and who the hell wouldn't?!), and I love my country very much.

Buuuut, a lot of Americans all over the net mostly since GW was re-elected (not saying that's the cause, but there may well be a correlation) have taken to saying agressively that the US is the freest or even the only democracy... which I must laugh at I'm afraid! But it wasn't meant as a general attack on you or your country, I was just wrong in second guessing where you were coming from as it wasn't clear by the tone in your post, for which I'm sorry.

Oh btw, i still would glady give my life to help you and yours here in my homeland.Cheers, I misread that too earlier, sorry... me too likewise I'm sure!

your ability to argue well has made me quite fond of your presence here on the board. at least you fight hard instead of take cheap shots (such as a certain expat)Why thank you! You have some interesting points of view.

And like you, and prob Seven with his initial 'WTF?!' comment, I've no idea why the thread starter is asking such questions about what to take with him when a sensible choice of weapon if you are concerned with personal safety, you have some confidence/training in that area, and the local laws agree would be a gun or a knife... rather than a credit card or a wooden spoon or whatever!:D

Aiden Jowgar

01-17-2006, 07:03 AM

Never underestimate the power of a wooden spoon.

GeneChing

09-20-2016, 09:13 AM

House of flying cards: Incredible moment Kung fu master flicks his aces so fast they pierce beer cans (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3797469/House-flying-cards-Incredible-moment-Kung-fu-master-flicks-aces-fast-pierce-beer-cans.html)

An astonishing video shows Zhou Chaofeng's impressive card skills
He can flick them out of his hand so fast they can pierce a beer can
The martial arts master has been training for 11 years to perfect technique

By FRANCIS SCOTT FOR MAILONLINE VIDEO
PUBLISHED: 18:32 EST, 19 September 2016 | UPDATED: 04:02 EST, 20 September 2016

A deck of playing cards is definitely not something you would expect to see in the arsenal of a Kung fu warrior.
But in the hands of this martial arts master it could be just as deadly as the double-edged sword or the flying dagger.
An astonishing video shows Zhou Chaofeng flicking cards so fast out of his hand he can pierce a beer can.
'Kung-fu master' opens cans by throwing playing cards at them

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/20/00/3897B5E300000578-0-image-a-18_1474326810052.jpg
An astonishing video shows Zhou Chaofeng throwing cards so fast he can pierce a beer can

The footage, taken in Mianyang, Sichuan Province on August 11, shows Chaofeng launching the cards across great distances, and at rapid speed.
Amazingly he then throws them at bottles of beer, causing the liquid to spray out from the side.
The martial artist has practiced flying cards for 11 years alongside Kung fu.
Perhaps he should challenge magician Rick Smith Jr from the US, who holds the world record for the ****hest throw.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/20/00/3897B5C800000578-0-image-a-17_1474326797820.jpg
The footage, taken in Mianyang, Sichuan Province on August 11, shows Chaofeng launching the cards across great distances

In December 2002 he launched one over 65 metres (216 feet) at a speed of just under 92mph, making it the fastest ever throw too.
The speed of Chaofeng's throws could lead some to suggest they could be used to kill or seriously injure someone.
But it would have to be a perfect eye-shot to cause any damage, as playing cards lack the mass to deeply cut into human tissue.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/20/00/3897B5F000000578-0-image-a-14_1474326787765.jpg
The martial artist has practiced flying cards for 11 years alongside Kung fu

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/20/00/3897B5F400000578-0-image-a-20_1474326825593.jpg
Amazingly he throws cards at bottles of beer, causing the liquid to spray out from the side

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/20/00/3897B5F900000578-0-image-a-19_1474326822862.jpg
Perhaps he should challenge magician Rick Smith Jr from the US, who holds the world record for the ****hest throw

Anyone here ever read Ricky Jay (http://rickyjay.com/)'s Cards as Weapons? It's out of print now, but it is - in my humble opinion - one of the best martial arts books ever written. Anyone who has read it surely feels me. ;)