8 Step Related News

[commoner]

I had a short email dialog with Kin recently. Kin informed me that as of January 1, 2006, he was no longer involved with Shyun and his school. He did not elaborate on why he left Shyun, but he provided me with good information about 8 Step from the old days. Kin is dropping out of this forum as he will no longer be involved with MA.

He asked me to keep this quiet, but I felt it had to be shared with this forum. Anyway people will find out eventually. I also want you all to know this first hand rather than some other rumors down the road portraying him to be a bad apple of 8 Step. This was not a punt directed toward EarthDragon. There was another post archive posted by “8StepSifu” that said the same thing about Kin being a traitor. I am beginning to wonder who the source of this lie (Grandmaster?).

Kin, I am sorry for the broadcast.

[EarthDragon]

He learned in the 80's never did anything to promote 8 step, never taught anyone, never opened a school.Never did anything with his training.

Then 20 years later he asks to teach his nephew, comes on the internet praising the ACMAF and in less than a 5 months is not longer involved with ACMAF? and dropped out?

OK thats stable........... this is what I mean. There is so much controversy invloved with Shyun and his followers that you dont know what to beleive.

karma follows us all without prejeduice or judgment..

[old8step]

traitor no traitior whatever may be it doesn't really matter. In all reality he said it himself he trained in the 80's he was on the 8step website for a couple weeks and then is off it. If he was not around for 20years he can not really comment on Sifu Shyun. Just as I have not been in the system for over a decade so I cannot comment on what went on while I was gone. As all of you can tell I have never had anything against Shyun. I mean me and my Dai Low helped run the scool for a period of time and even Sifu Haley will tell you my other Kung Fu Brother was considered Shyun "right hand man" (young Danny). Now from what i read Sifu fell on some hard times and maybe he needed the money. So he came up with the Sifu program and from what i read all "Sifu's" need to pay money etc. I don't know the details etc. I wasn't around when the program came into being.

But could it be that Kin wanted to be part of 8 step again found out what he would have to pay to be listed on the website as a certified instructor and decided to nt be part of ACMAF. IF you do need to pay your dues etc to be listed I see that as being "BUISNESS" this is after all 2006 and everybody needs to make money. So i can not say rather this is right or wrong. But one thing I can say is DEAN is not listed as an instructor and EVERYBODY from the old days knows DEAN was the top student I don't care who you talk to. I mean Kin said that he was listed as a Sifu because he was given a certificate and helped teach classes I from personal experience I find that hard to believe Because Hell I have ACMAF certificates old ones before the Sifu Program and I taught alot of classes but I am not a SIFU.

Whatever happend with Sifu Shyun monetary wise was a monetary decision we all learned what we learned. For Sifu Haley who was not told about these facts beforehand I can see his point. For the other newer Sifu's who entered the program and knew what they were getting into I see kung fu usa and the dues owed somewhat like a franchise Subway for example. They pay to use the kung fu usa name the uniforms etc it's like a mcdonalds having to buy their hamburgers from the corporation. ACMAF is a corporation granted this may not be how traditional kung fu is taught but this is the year 2006. I don't believe any of Sifu's students from Kevin to the newest sifu's teach for free so they are making money from what they learned right?

Sifu Haley even you school must make money right? So who's to say what is right or wrong?

[commoner]

It’s more than just about money.

How can a teacher make up such a vicious lie about a student? What does this tell you about the teacher? How can we ever trust the teacher again?

Personally I would not learn from a teacher who has no respect for his students even though if he has the best complete MA system in the world.

Shyun’s other former student Tony left because of mistrust and lies.

[Oso]

I had a short email dialog with Kin recently. Kin informed me that as of January 1, 2006, he was no longer involved with Shyun and his school. He did not elaborate on why he left Shyun, but he provided me with good information about 8 Step from the old days. Kin is dropping out of this forum as he will no longer be involved with MA.

He asked me to keep this quiet, but I felt it had to be shared with this forum. Anyway people will find out eventually. I also want you all to know this first hand rather than some other rumors down the road portraying him to be a bad apple of 8 Step. This was not a punt directed toward EarthDragon. There was another post archive posted by “8StepSifu” that said the same thing about Kin being a traitor. I am beginning to wonder who the source of this lie (Grandmaster?).

Kin, I am sorry for the broadcast.

I don't know who you are or what your goals are and I'm not at all affiliated with 8 step. I'm not sure how you're going to keep getting people to talk to you if you keep relaying information to the public that you were asked to keep quiet about.

[commoner]

I usually keep confidential about what others told me. But I felt this needed to be said because a bad lie has been spread about Kin in the past. I don’t want another bad lie spreading. I admired the things he said in his posts.

A grandmaster projected to be almighty and his/her word is golden (truth), just because he/she declared so. Now all the GM followers believe it to be truth and an honest man is marked traitor to the system.

I am a person here only doing research for my studies.

[Oso]

that all seems pretty irrelevent since you said yourself that he asked you not to talk about it.

my point is, that if you are wanting to get information out of people in an environment already known for being closemouthed, then immediately repeating information probably won't get you respected by others.

just seemed to be obvious that you would keep your mouth shut and let sleeping dogs lie.

[commoner]

Oso,

I respect your point of view. But I am not here to look for respect from others. I am looking for the truth in my research, which may be difficult like you said it is a closemouth environment here.

[Oso]

but how can you find truth if you lack respect from the people you are trying to get said truth from?

anyway...good luck.

[old8step]

I usually keep confidential about what others told me. But I felt this needed to be said because a bad lie has been spread about Kin in the past. I don’t want another bad lie spreading. I admired the things he said in his posts.

A grandmaster projected to be almighty and his/her word is golden (truth), just because he/she declared so. Now all the GM followers believe it to be truth and an honest man is marked traitor to the system.

I am a person here only doing research for my studies.


I ask you this you said a bad lie was spread about kin If this is so why did Kin try so hard to get back in the system after 20 years? you admired the things he said in his posts? what things? Most of his posts were defending Shyun were they not?
" Now all the GM followers believe it to be truth and an honest man is marked traitor to the system". Are you talking about Shyun? if so honestly what followers does he have on this board? Wasn't Kin the only one defending him?

Now did you really know Kin that well? Do you know Shyun? from what I've read of your posts you are just a researcher who didn't really know any of the Mantis students correct? 20 years is a loooong looong time who can really say what is truth what is lie and what is misunderstanding. Especially one such as yourself who is an outsider to the system?? IF such a lie was told did Kin just find out about this 20 years later?? IF Shyun told the "lie" and believed it to be the truth why would he accept kin again 20 years later???>

If you are indeed here only doing research for your studies and do not care about gaining respect from others.

Then why do you care about what may or may not be a lie and doesn't really matter to anyone which is a personal matter between Kin and Shyun. Why would you care what Sifu Haley, Dean , or even myself thinks. I mean it's not like you actucally know KIN right??? It's not like defending him would actucally do anything to help your studies right???? Let me ask you have you talked to Shyun about this "lie" Who told you a lie was actually spread. and who believes this lie? WHY WHY would an outsider doing research care about a supposed lie that took place over 20 years ago that so far i can only see two people commented on which was kin and Michael Haley.

You actions do not match your words. either you do not care and are simply doing reasearch and are an outsider who should have no reason to believe Kin over any other 8 stepper since you do not know any of us personally. Or perhaps you do have a reason for believing that what is said about kin is a lie and for some reason you believe him More than the other's from eight step which i don't know why an outside reasearcher would believe one student more over the other especially when most of the students seem to say Shyun is dishonest anyway. Please tell me what is is about KIn that after 5 months of reading his posts via internet that his word is "golden" I mean is seems as if he "declared" that what was told was a lie. so now all of us on the forum should believe it to be truth??

Wouldn't that be just as wrong as all of the GM's followers believing what he said as golden and to be the truth.

You would have us believe that just because you say something was a lie that it was????

[commoner]

The bottomline is you guys are right, respect does play a big part. I was getting carry away with my emotion. I really felt bad for Kin.

I need to take a step back and look at the whole picture on my research. I decided to not response to old8step, but to retract what I have said earlier.

What Oso said what right. I betrayed another person's trust by revealing what was asked to be kept secret. Instead I caused Kin more controversy rather than helping him.

[Sifu Darkfist]

Did you (commoner) Interview my master a couple of years ago for a magazine? If so i remember you from your demeanor if not i am barking up the wrong tree.

The sad fact is, and no dissrespect meant to anyone, but my LiPi is the same as GM Wei's through My Master who learned it through GM SU.

So i beg to ask, how can this arguement be relevant? There are many good sifus of Ba Bu. Perhaps this fight is a stalemate, like so many other politicaly charged martial art lineage fights.

Good lord, i promise to not eat my brothers should our lives be destroyed by the loss of our master. I will do all i can to help them as i loved every minute i trained with them in front of a wonderful man.

No one can corner 8 step, it is out there now, i have heard the lineage one hundred times and there are too many to try to say one is right over the other.

It seems to me that all involved are highly skilled and truly love the art
why not make a coalition? It worked for east coast west coast rap now they are really hitting the pavement (and they were shooting each other).

Think of all the roadblocks to a successfull drive toward eight step proliferation that are being set by such division. I have recently seen other division in other large schools that were capped for the sake of proliferation (and if you need help understanding the word and its symbolism message me).

It seems to me that if you guys could join forces you have enough power to take over much of the country for the flag of 8 step. one thing is for sure and i dont mean any personal strike against you commoner, but the last thing you guys need is a fact finder to wash your drawers. You are all men with incredible instinct and bussiness perspective. I suggest you use it together hold some tourneys and let my guys come clean your clocks!!! (had to add the lighter side):D

[ChaoticMantis]

I was upset to find out that Commoner had betrayed my trust and publicly disclosed I was no longer associated with my teacher James Shyun. I literally cursed him out in a private message. Yes, what he said what true. I had intented to quietly leave this forum, but I guess he blew that away.

Anyway this will be my last communication in this forum. I want to say thanks to all and have benefited from all the information discussed in this forum.

Good Journey,

:)

[Sifu Darkfist]

I for one do not see the benefit to this forum to lose anyone over politics in martial arts. Lest we forget the Kung Fu Magazine has allowed us to meet on equal terms and each man to himself.

Many have suffered the relentless attack of those that hold anomosity due to envy, or testosterone. However i do not think it wise to lose any one from the family we are creating.

We for the first time have a chance to coalese. Each man is more important than the next and you leaving constitutes a foreclosure on motivation (which i know is not the case).

No man can get you to leave if you care about Kung Fu.
Common or Elite
We are here to support each other as a collective.
I am not above pleading to keep any man that wishes to be a part of chinese martial arts. Simply because if you want to learn you deserve a teacher from somewhere.

IT IS THE FR EAK ING EGOS that cause this stupidity.

all they want to do is learn
If you are a teacher stop crying and teach.
Or change professions to salesman/woman