" Fight clubs"

[Emeraldphoenix]

I was wondering if anyone has ran across any local type clubs that are open to all styles, for sparring purposes. I think the best way for you to test your skills is sparr with as many different styles as possible. But it seems that politics and school reputations get in the way of this. I am talking about a group of people just getting together a couple times a month and doing their own thing no school memberships or dues or politics. Just martial artists refining their skills and testing their personal fighting styles.. Any feed back would be welcome. How much interest in this subject is there?

[old8step]

well it depends on how hard you are thinking of going i know many schools that have smokers with other schools in muay thai and boxing on a monthly basis with no fees etc i also know many schools that accept open challenges. So it depends on what type of sparring are you talking about?

[Emeraldphoenix]

To the Death. Just kidding. Friendly. You wouldnt want to be sending guys out on stretchers. Dont think you would get many guys coming back. :)

[phoenixdog]

Walk into any USA boxing gym with an attitude and they will gladly accomodate you. Bring your mouthpiece.

[Emeraldphoenix]

:) well, I see that this subject isnt of any serious interest. I could also go to the local bar or street corner and **** on the nearest guy. But my ? was of a different nature. Trying to see if it would be possible to do something like this outside of tournaments or going into another school and getting into a war. I have fought boxer before they arent that much of a challenge when you can use kicks against them. they do not like kickers. But anyway, I put the idea out there and i got what i got from it. Perhaps if i talked smack and politics i would get a better response.

[Oso]

well, it's pretty much off topic for this forum, unless you were talking mantis only players.

otherwise, people that want to spar with other people tend to do just that...those that don't won't. your question is really rather vague.

the truth is, most people really don't want to spar regularly at the level of 'fighting'


Vs. a boxer: if you want to learn something about what you can really do with your hands, spar a boxer on their terms. Or, if you're really serious, i'm sure you can find a boxer who will be will to let you do whatever you think your game is as long as he can hit you as hard as he wants.

[mooyingmantis]

Emeraldpheonix,
I am in North Canton, Ohio. You are welcome to come spar at my school.
I have participated in these in the past. It was a good workout with some nice guys. We had a boxer, a JKD player, a karateka and myself.
Send me a personal message and we can hook up.
BTW, who do you train with in Akron?

Mooying

[Emeraldphoenix]

Good to go. If this is who i think it is, give me a shout. Couple more guys and we can do it. Akron area?

[yu shan]

Oso-I remember when you hooked up with the boxer back a spell. Did you get a good lesson? Boxers are tuff mofo`s. I have always been a fan of western boxing, catch as many fights as I can. Wasnt there a Russian style of some sorts that you went up against. Guys, Oso has no inhibitions, think the dude would go up against just about anybody.

Mooying- I understand there is some real punka s s in Akron area. I was hoping Emerald was from Biggie`s school... no? Biggie`s a great teacher and good man. It was funny yet bizarre, stories he told me about schools in his area, some real koo koo`s.

[phoenixdog]

Seriously,your mantis will better if you spar against boxers.If you say boxers were not much of a challenge,then you didn't go to a serious boxing gym.If you can't find a serious boxing gym,them I'm sure the pong lai folks will accomodate you as well.

[Oso]

yes, it was a big lesson, he was surprised I would put the gloves on and go with him...then he proceded to beat the snot out of me.:p

super nice guy be kinda flaky, only got to go round with him twice.

had a guy come in to ask about classes a week or so ago...said he was a 'golden gloves' boxer from south miami...???...who knows...hopefully he'll come back...he looked to be about 200 and I need a big guy in my school.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Why not use San Shou as a level playing field?

http://www.iwuf.org/rules/SanShou.htm

The boxers can punch
the grapplers can throw
the kickers can kick
And it's quite safe, you know

In terms of equipment, I recommend AIBA (International Boxing Assosciation: http://www.aiba.net/pages/AboutHistory.htm ) certified gloves and headgear. Since the introduction of AIBA standards in the olympics, knockouts have dropped to around 1%. This is mainly because headgear with specific padding requirements became mandatory in 1984, and 10oz gloves became mandatory ten years later.

Also, many provincial, state, and municipal governments offer GRANTS to organizations that are promoting sports and recreation in their community. San Shou is an international sport: it is definitely eligible for funding. Most grants generally cover a percentage of funding (commonly 50%), and allow equipment (such as mats) to be part of the grant proposal. Check your state and municipal websites for funding information.

Good luck to all who undertake such endeavours. :)

CSP

[Sifu Darkfist]

we participate in all of this. Its the best way to help each other get better.
We have some converted boxers as well. There are some dynamics that really cause them problems you just have to exploit them relentlessly. There are very subtle things such as footwork makes them vulnerable among other things.

Akron loves its Kung Fu, I Met Sifu Biggie a couple of times and enjoyed his presence. As far as others there My Uncles are out of the original group, both i can certify are bona fide ass whoopers, as is my father. Not to Mention Wutang Center With My Master and a good friend and teacher Master Schulz. I can honestly say with many lumps and scars as reminders my days in that depressed town hurt in many ways.

Big guys are rather common at my school (its part of teaching at a Gym). Once you get them relaxed and using as little energy as possible they fight really fast.
However they tend to be the nicest guys on the planet.

[mooyingmantis]

Yu Shan,
Yeah Akron has some real homegrown idiots. Fortunately, it also has Mike Biggie and Tony Yang.
Mike and I have some interesting stories about some of the knuckleheads here. Its not every city that you get death threats from other instructors. :)

Emeraldpheonix,
Who do you train with in Akron?

Mooying

[Emeraldphoenix]

Akron is an interesting town. All kinds. I have been with Mike for over 3 years now. When i was in the USMC. fought boxers all the time. Dont get me wrong. Boxers are great fighters. I would not go in and fight there game toe to toe. As i said. they dont like you to kick them. they have issues with that. I love 7 * and i just like to hook up with other fighters. If you spar within your own style all the time you get use to the same tech. all the time. That is why i was wondering who and what is in the area. Just always looking to better myself and have some fun in the process.

[Emeraldphoenix]

As for Mke, You have to see him in action to believe. When i first met him he put he put a good a$$ whooping on me. That is why i converted to 7* I didnt put the request out there to challenge any one because i am some great fighter. As i said i just like to hook up with guys and have some fun with other styles to try and stay fresh.

[monkeyfoot]

come to south/east london england - theres a ton of unlicensed boxing matches and illegal fights.

craig

[phoenixdog]

I would add that sparring in a boxing ring will teach you to relax since there is no place to go.Most CMA schools teach sparring in a big open room or on large mats where you can simply move off of the fight area so your sparring is not as compressed.As far as big dudes go,the gym that I trained in had a heavyweight named David Rickson.One of the toughest fighters I've ever seen.On his eighth fight he was killed in the ring by an illegal forearm blow to the back of the head.

[Emeraldphoenix]

That sucks... Atleast he went doing what he loved. I hear you about the ring sizes.. I started out in Goshin shin Ryu. there our ring size was about 10 by 10.

[Emeraldphoenix]

Sounds great I'll be there next week. Got a spare room? Just kidding. Are you talking underground fights? That would certainly be very cool to check out.

[mooyingmantis]

Emeraldpheonix,
I haven't figured out who you are yet, but I'm glad to hear we both train with "His Mantidness". Mike has a very no BS approach to CMA. I have known him for twenty years now and he just gets tougher and tougher. Have you ever seen his Choy Li Fut? Equally good! My student who teaches up in Cleveland is now coming down on a weekly basis to train with Mike in CLF.
We are going to have to work on Mike to start letting us spar in class. :) I think that would round out our training.

Richard

[greensage22]

I recommend going to mnpls minnesota or st.pauls east or west side. if you want to fight all you have to do is travel alone with a new bike, or spend some time in a pool hall or bar. one of my close friends gets attacked all the time, last one was
bad, he got sucker punched with a chain. many stiches needed.:eek:

[Emeraldphoenix]

Hey, We have the east side of cleveland for that.

[Hoop]

Emerald = K?

Remember - the first rule about fight club is you can't talk about fight club.


:)

[Xiao3 Meng4]

We've started a San Shou club in Southern Nova Scotia. We meet once a week right now. Its main purpose is to provide the Martial Sport of San Shou to local Martial Artists. Every "Class," we warm up, stretch, and shadow box within the confines of the rules. Martial Artists can go through any of their own personal preparation for 15 minutes afterward. Instruction is only given upon request; People can come and learn San Shou Basics, although they are encouraged to go and find another Martial Art to train as well. After a regular run-down of rules, We take turns being the judges, refs, and competitors, ensuring that everyone learns all aspects of the sport, and gets to participate as much as possible. It's more fun that way.

Poor Sportsmanship is absolutely not tolerated and, depending on the severity of the scenario, will result in the dismissal of the member for the remainder of the day, month, or year. Poor sportsmanship resulting in bodily harm will result in lifetime expulsion and criminal charges.

Membership is $40CDN a month. All equipment except Athletic Supports and Mouth Guards are provided. Members wishing to use their own equipment must ensure that their Headgear and Gloves are AIBA certified. Shin and Instep guards must be to Muay Thai Standards.

We're still very small - we opened our doors at the Beginning of December. However, it's a workable, insureable model, and it's a way for all Martial Artists to safely and recreationally hone their skills. The sport is also a way to introduce fitness and activity into the community - always a healthy thing. In the near future, we hope to offer Weapons sparring as well.

Fight clubs are a great idea, so long as everyone's kept as safe as possible within the confines of the activity. We chose to use San Shou rules simply because they're Internationally standardized, and they allow for a wide range of martial artists to participate, but any rule system that is both safe and versatile would work in a fight club. Speaking of which, if anyone knows of any national or international weapons sparring rule systems, please post them or a link to them. :)

CSP

[Emeraldphoenix]

Sounds very good. Good luck and hope you continue to grow and provide this wonderful program for all to benefit. I like your Rules of sportsmanship. Got a few posts of "go to the bar and fight" You can go to any street corner and Pi$$ on the guys leg and you will have yourself a fight. Keeping it safe and sportsman like is what we MA are suppose to be striving for. It has to be very interesting to see how all the differnt styles do with eachother and how they quickly learn to adapt to the differences.

Thanks.

[bodhitree]

we have a group that trains like that in Pittsburgh. It's great, you get to go against a lot of everything.

[Ray Pina]

Emerald, there are plenty of forums for a martial artists to test. An easy one is to go to Bullshido.com and organize a local Throwdown. You can organize it however you want ... gear/no gear ... ground/no ground, etc.

Local boxing gyms are also a good bet. And I know many boxers who are more than happy to play with "martial art" kickers... you kick them it just makes them madder.

Find wrestlers and wrestle. There's a lot out there today.

Dark Sifu, some of your guys do look big and game.:)

[David Jamieson]

I said no. Not because I disagree with it, but rather because I know how very difficult it is to get such a thing going and to have it at such a level that everyone there is capable, doesn't have an overinflated ego and so on.

If you just freely have something, I don't think there will be a willingness by all to go full contact without a few level settings happening first and that level setting may include things that some cannot abide by or are not capable of abiding by.

Knockaround is made to look like its something that is cool and what not, but it is mostly foolish flailing if it's not done in teh correct context by teh right people.

anyway,m ultimately count yourself lucky if you can gradually find just a few competent martialists that are willing to tarin in such a way.

If you wanna just get into fights and test your junk, then go to innappropriate bars and make inappropriate comments about teh bouncers sexual preferences. :D that'll get you warmed up.

[Oso]

XM, that sounds great.

A good model indeed...people who are willing to pay a little money and abide by some basic conduct rules will be more serious, imo.

is there a website for this endeavor? I'd like to know more about how exactly you have it set up.

[Akronviper]

A couple of the bullshido guys had a "throwdown" in Akron last year. It would have been cool to attend. I'm looking forward to another, which they say is possibly in the works.

[Tingjid]

If you guys do do this then you should drop me an e-mail if you want some more company. I'm in the columbus area and I'm always down for friendly sparring against good people. I'm not into full contact but I never mind taking a few punches in the face, wakes you up :D I could probably drag along a few of my training buddies, a few would be fodder, but a few can beat some butt. Besides nothing wrong with fodder, they get better fighting better people and makes you look hard. :cool:

Out of curiosity how do you guys spar? I'm used to straight point fighting with medium contact, I've started doing more continuous sparring and that's been fun and a better workout. Anyway.... I've gotta get back to work.

[Oso]

Big guys are rather common at my school (its part of teaching at a Gym). Once you get them relaxed and using as little energy as possible they fight really fast.
However they tend to be the nicest guys on the planet.

good gawd...any of those guys coming down?

i taught in a gym for over 2 years and couldn't get any of the muscle heads interested.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

XM, that sounds great.

A good model indeed...people who are willing to pay a little money and abide by some basic conduct rules will be more serious, imo.

The money means they have a vested interest in a) coming, b) being able to come. It's a nominal fee, and really only covers room rental and equipment maintenance.

The conduct rules:

1, Respect others and yourself equally.
2. Use courteous vocabulary and volume.
3. When the supervisor is out of the room, shadow boxing only.
4. Observe proper hygiene (clipped and cleaned nails, washed uniforms)
5. No open wounds
6. Waterbottles only.
7. No jewellery.
8. Approved Shoes (non-marking, soft soled) and uniforms (buttonless, zipperless shorts, buttonless, zipperless short-sleeved shirts) must be worn at all times.
9. All Headgear and gloves must be AIBA approved.
10. All Sparring must take place on the mats, under the supervision of a referee and the supervisor.
11. Poor Sportsmanship will result in suspension from the premises for a period of time proportional to the severity of the infraction. Poor sportsmanship causing bodily harm may result in criminal charges.

We have approved headgear and gloves for people to use, but encourage them to get their own stuff if they decide to stick around and make it a regular thing.


is there a website for this endeavor? I'd like to know more about how exactly you have it set up.

No Website as of yet :P

Our set up is simple; one room, one 4mx4m mat, and 2 pairs of San Shou equipment. The first 15 minutes are a basic group warm-up and stretching. The next 15 minutes are for everyone to do their own preparation. Newbies wanting instruction are taught basic drills and/or shadow boxing.
After that, it's 15 minutes of shadow boxing, and newbies do partner drills.
Next, there's a 15 minute run-down of the rules, including ref signals and how to judge. Newbies start here, regardless of previous skill or experience. Then we spar for the rest of the time. Sparring is, at all times, solely for the purpose of testing one's skill. No official records are kept of wins or losses, although we may start an intramural round robin competition in the spring. :)

We're looking to include weapons sparring as well - single (short or long) vs. single (short or long,) and double short vs. double short or single long.

I did weapons sparring in Nelson, British Columbia. It was loads of fun and great training, but there weren't any standardized rules. Here's the tentative rule system for weapons sparring that we'll be using:

For all non-weapon contact, San Shou scoring methods will be used.
For all weapon contact, the following list shows how to score:

Any sword strike to the head - end of round.
Sword thrust to the body - end of round.
Disarm - 3 points.
Sword chop to body - 2 points.
Sword strike to limb - 1 point.

We had a tough time deciding on a point system, mainly because some people wanted limb strikes to equate to limb dismemberments or automatic loss of use of that limb. However, it became unclear how to distinguish a skin cut from a chop to the bone, especially in a sparring situation (The dilemma appeared regarding cuts to the chest.) So, judges are instructed to simply count it as a point - maybe it went to the bone, maybe not, but it's a point, and the person can keep using their arm for the rest of the match. There's also been talk of adding grappling w/tapouts to this particular contest - I'm not against it, but we haven't really talked about how to set that up yet.

What other weapons sparring systems are out there?

CSP