High-Tech Schools vs. Garage or Rec/park schools

[hskwarrior]

something was said in one of the threads that made me think.

I just want your opinions and this one hopefully won't attrack too many wacko's but i had a question......

"Is there a 'quality' difference between a teacher who teaches lets say in a rec center, garage or even the park for that matter and one who teaches at a commercial school. (when i mean commercial school im talking about contracts, uniforms, equipment sales, and such).

does a martial artist lose out with anything when you learn at the rec as opposed to commercial school? if so, then why?

the reason i ask is that i learned out of the garage, then my sifu built the studio in the back of his home but it still was in a small garage and we turned out some pretty good sifu's.

just some of your thoughts and lets go from there.

hsk

[chud]

something was said in one of the threads that made me think.

I just want your opinions and this one hopefully won't attrack too many wacko's but i had a question......

"Is there a 'quality' difference between a teacher who teaches lets say in a rec center, garage or even the park for that matter and one who teaches at a commercial school. (when i mean commercial school im talking about contracts, uniforms, equipment sales, and such).

does a martial artist lose out with anything when you learn at the rec as opposed to commercial school? if so, then why?

the reason i ask is that i learned out of the garage, then my sifu built the studio in the back of his home but it still was in a small garage and we turned out some pretty good sifu's.

just some of your thoughts and lets go from there.

hsk
If you had asked me a year ago I would have said that the commercial school would be the way to go, but since I started training with my current sifu in his backyard I don't see the need for all the fancy trappings, uniforms, and equipment.

[hskwarrior]

:D what changed your mind?

at first you would have chosen the commercial school, why?

thanks for your input:D

[Royal Dragon]

The best Kung Fu for me was allways from guys I met in parks, basements and garages.

[chud]

:D what changed your mind?

at first you would have chosen the commercial school, why?

thanks for your input:D

Well I've mostly trained in commercial schools. I trained in one garage school and it was a bit cramped. But I think training in a park or backyard is great.

[viper]

I train in a big shed in my sifus bak yard i love it id prob nva train in a comm school the eye on the prize is money not the system my sifu does it coz he loves it thats wat matters not where but who. I find its more i dunno better feeling casual stuff lik that makes u thrive not jus think bout achieving belts and sh!t. Im sure if some comm school guys had a challange against our school i think pound for pound wed kik but. just me talking smak ingnore or take wit grain of salt.

[monkeyfoot]

I train in school and when I get the chance in privates.

viper - you should learn to speak/type correctly, your short-term makes you sound a bit......

[green_willow]

I would say kung fu schools should be semi commerical. You don't need the modern equipment because kung fu is ancient and not modern. stance training and pushups is good for developing strength. But certainly uniforms and customery respect is important to homage the style and ancestory.

[Mr Punch]

No difference.

Most big sifu started somewhere more lowly and some want to keep it that way.

As long as you're not just 'backyard brawling'!

The equipment is nice tho... a place to put your dummy, heavy bag, wall bags etc is pretty essential. You can always keep your weapons, gloves and helmets and what have you in your house so that's no prob.

[Mr Punch]

The best ... for me was allways from guys I met in parks, basements and garages.You missed out alleys and toilets...! :eek:

:D

[MasterKiller]

You can train harder with proper equipment.

Two-inch mats are mana from heaven.

[JamesC]

I've trained in both, and I can honestly say that I like the more private feel of a shed/garage/park.

[Mook Jong]

I personally think it depends more on the sifu than the school. I went to a school that was just a shack in someone's backyard. It had a very traditional feel and seemed pretty good. But then i met the sifu and he was an absolute crack pot. Didn't stay there long. Now i'm in the 'commercial' school and the only reason it seems better is the teacher.

[TenTigers]

There are alot of famous "Grandmasters" who have huge schools, head up huge organizations, write books, articles, videos, etc. There is also a park in Chinatown where guys hang out and play with each other, and have small groups of followers. These guys are from all different styles-Southern Mantis, Bak Mei, Lung Ying, Tai-Chi, Hsing-Yi,etc-and their skill is truly amazing. Likewise there are guys teaching in old buildings, basements, etc who are also truly amazing. Many of these aforementioned teachers truly are Masters, but do not seek the limelight.

[yutyeesam]

Great question, Frank. As someone said earlier, it definitely does depend on the quality of the instructor.

My opinion is this:
Too often, the rec center/garage method gets people going hardcore for awhile, and the student loves it but then ends up burning out, and quits.

What a lot of the QUALITY commercial schools do is limit the training to twice a week initially to prevent burnout, and while good technique is taught, the emphasis is a lot more on the mental aspects of training and training discipline and how to practice. If you start with someone's mind and teach them how to reawlly focus into their training in the first year, then the next year, you can step it up with physical, and the year after that, you can go completely hardcore.

I know, I know, you were the type of person who didn't need someone to teach you about focus and such. But understand that you are NOT the norm. If we want Kung-Fu to be respected by more people, we have to try to reach the people who aren't born with a Kung-Fu/MA spirit.

There is a way to reach a lot more people without selling out the art. You just have to think long term with your students, and that's what the successful QUALITY commercial Kung-Fu schools do.

Just my $0.02

-123

[hskwarrior]

i agree that the garage/rec center type instructor tends to teach MA for the love of it, and hopefully in the future he could open up a more commercial school.

In my experience, my sifu would love to make some money, and reach out for all that fame and glory, but that's not his style. he teaches for the love of it, and as a business it doesn't bring in enough money to take care of his family so he always had a full time job.

There are some folks who open a commercial school and try to make big business out of it. But that's not for me. I am a garage/rec -out in the alley type teacher and i feel i offer a good thing for my students. I'm a streetfighter who has used his gung fu and i pass that knowledge along with that of my predecessors and my students are happy with that. I like teaching at the park because of the stares and crowds of people who hang around and watch my classes.

by the responses of some of the spectators, i can see they recognize that what im teaching is the real deal for combat and not just for show. although we have to have a good strong balance between the two.

but let's keep it up until the wheels fall off on this one.

thanks for ev'ry ones input.

as we say in San Francisco.........."ERRRRRAAAAYYYYYYY"!!!

[yutyeesam]

It's all about having a system. You don't necessarily need to be famous, write for Inside Kung-Fu or Kung-Fu Magazine, etc to have a financially successful school. If you set up standardized protocols for:
-handling phone calls
-handling walk-bys
-separate introductory sessions
-enrollment conferences
-follow up calls once they've joined
-setting a series of attainable and concrete goals (mandatory testing every month free of charge)
-a leadership program for the best of the best students (to work with the brand new students, to help them ease into your classes)
-internal/special events

you can grow your school to be a decent business that can support you, without taking away from your Kung-Fu style and training methods, and without having to try to make yourself uber famous in the Kung-Fu world. Word of mouth referrals are the number one means of getting more students.

I'm prepared to learn new things and step outside of my comfort zone to make this happen. That's what I've gotten out of my MA training. As one of my mentors has said, "Your school will only grow as much as you allow yourself to grow." But, some are content with "protecting their puddle."

Life is short. I love Kung-Fu so much, that I'd rather do what it takes to make it into a successful business (without sacrificing the content) and do it full time, rather than work a day job that tears into my life, taking time away from spending time with what I am passionate about (Kung-Fu). Wouldn't you?

I'd rather spend 6-8 hours of my day flyering, writing press releases to local papers, making follow up calls, doing private lessons, doing administration for my Kung-Fu school than working at a warehouse, or a grocery store, or something equally meaningless (for me). But, that's just me. I never settle - I control my situation, and I understand that that is not easy to do.

-123

[Fen]

Garage-Fu

I feel both are good... But The training in the Garage-Fu is a little more like a fam..
My 1st Sifu and the one I'm am with now are Garage-Fu style of training...

It's always a smaller group, and more time with Sifu. But all this can be in a commercial schools also.. Like Mook Jong said

"I personally think it depends more on the sifu than the school."

I teach out of my home and I have had some good students..

Alex Garcia....... 4 time world NBL forms Champ, 5 time full contact champ..
Mike Whitehead UFC TV show and Now the UFC
Luke Goodale Lion Dance and acting for the Beijing Opera..
and so on... But it's also on how hard you train...

There is an old saying.....
Finding a teacher is diffcult, finding a student is even harder.

~Jason

[Chief Fox]

The word commercial implys business. I would guess that there are many excellent martial artsists that don't want to be businessmen. They train on their own or with a few others in a non-commercial setting and have excellent kung fu.

It all depends on the instructor. It's just easier to find an instructor that has an ad in the yellow pages or a cool web site.

[SevenStar]

In the end, it doesn't matter where the place is - that doesn't denote the quality of them. I've met crap instructors who teach in their backyard and at the Y. I've also met national level instructors who teach at community centers. I've met good and crap teachers in strip malls. Where a good teacher teaches will depend largely on funds available and what he hopes to do with his art (teach for fun, teach to supplement his living, etc) I'd imagine.

However, as MK touched on, tatamis are a godsend.

[SevenStar]

Garage-Fu

I feel both are good... But The training in the Garage-Fu is a little more like a fam..
My 1st Sifu and the one I'm am with now are Garage-Fu style of training...

It's always a smaller group, and more time with Sifu. But all this can be in a commercial schools also.. Like Mook Jong said

"I personally think it depends more on the sifu than the school."

I teach out of my home and I have had some good students..

Alex Garcia....... 4 time world NBL forms Champ, 5 time full contact champ..
Mike Whitehead UFC TV show and Now the UFC
Luke Goodale Lion Dance and acting for the Beijing Opera..
and so on... But it's also on how hard you train...

There is an old saying.....
Finding a teacher is diffcult, finding a student is even harder.

~Jason

mma camps develop an awesome sense of camaraderie, or "fam", commercial or not. As for whitehead, doesn't he train with miletich? How long ago did you train him?

[Fen]

Only for 2 years... Mostly Chi Gong. back in 2001/2... just after me moved back from ID. He had to much fire and asked me to help. Him and Wen (Wushu Chik) are good friends. He did some fights in the local MMA seen useing our old school Name... Got them all on Vid too.... He kicked but!!

~Jason

[n.mitch]

I think it all depends on the sifu and the teaching quality,dosn't make that much difference where its taught.
some big schools dont seem to have as good quality control cause of the numbers, its always good if the teacher has insurance and good if there goverment accredited e.g NCAS in australia

[green_willow]

I think it all depends on the sifu and the teaching quality,dosn't make that much difference where its taught.
some big schools dont seem to have as good quality control cause of the numbers, its always good if the teacher has insurance and good if there goverment accredited e.g NCAS in australia

well this school has NCAS reg. but so what this school looks like a joke.

http://www.tigerandcrane.com.au/

this does NOT have NCAS but I think is closer to the real deal

http://www.tigercrane.com.au/

[SevenStar]

Only for 2 years... Mostly Chi Gong. back in 2001/2... just after me moved back from ID. He had to much fire and asked me to help. Him and Wen (Wushu Chik) are good friends. He did some fights in the local MMA seen useing our old school Name... Got them all on Vid too.... He kicked but!!

~Jason

Awesome!!!

[n.mitch]

Im not saying that having accreditation(NCAS) is a guarantee of good teaching, but as it is getting harder to get insurance these days, its handy, and i think its a good start to give beginers knowledge that the instructor has some goverment backed accreditations. they should also have good knowledge of safe teachings.
after all you dont go to a unqualified doctor do you? martial arts teaching is a profesion these days even if your teaching small time. Why not treat it like any other modern profesion?

[PangQuan]

Generally speaking, martial arts dont get the recognition from the rest of society that would bring it to the level, business wise, as any other type of modern profession.

martial arts are one of the most mis understood professions. We just happen to know the truth because we are part of it.

the fly would never understand the bee.