Suit

[Mulong]

KARATE KID HITS DOJO WITH SUIT

By DENISE BUFFA

January 17, 2006 -- A Bronx teen has sued a Midtown karate school, claiming that as a novice student, he was wrongly paired with a highly skilled student-instructor, who kicked him in the face, breaking his jaw.
Jonah Stevens, 19, says he was at Anderson's Martial Arts school at 35 W. 31st St. in January 2003 when he was paired with the student-instructor for practice — and wound up permanently injured, according to his lawsuit filed in Bronx Supreme Court.

"There was a guy, a student, who took over teaching the class, and the guy kicked him in the face, broke his jaw," said Stevens' lawyer, Stephen Krawitz.

The "full contact" blow loosened several of the teen's teeth, requiring dental work. His jaw will forever be sore, Krawitz said.

Attempts to reach the school and its owner, identified in court papers as Dan Anderson, were unsuccessful.

denise.buffa@nypost.com

[Aiden Jowgar]

But dont martial arts schools have insurance so if you do get hurt you cannot sue them because of a legal document you sign.

[hskwarrior]

most commercial schools should have some form of insurance against these types of injuries. but in my sifu's school we have no insurance, but my sifu makes you sign a contract that states if you plan to sue him for any injuries sustained in the school you must pay him $50,000 dollars first.

this usually weeds out the ones who have an incling to sue.



hsk

[GLW]

Your teacher should probably check with a lawyer. Most if not all agreements relieving someone of liability are not worth the paper they are printed on. You cannot be expected to sign away your right to hold someone liable for normal things.

As for insurance - it is NOT that expensive. If worse comes to worst, the AAU offers its members decent school insurance at cheap rates too.

I have to maintain an insurance policy for where I teach. It runs me around $200 per year is and purely a liability type of thing.

ANYONE teaching in the US that has NOT considered insurance is insane...it is too easy to lose everythng to a p.o'd student or the lawyers.

[Oso]

umm...

anyone can sue anyone at any time for anything.

The waiver is required by your liability insurance company and will be used by them in any suit filed against you. However, it generally isn't worth the paper it's printed on these days.

hskwarrior, will all due respect to your sifu, that contract might work as a scare tactic up front but really wont protect him if someone decides to sue.

accountability is at an all time low...

[GreenCloudCLF]

Oso and GW are exactly right.

The insurance company will probably be the one paying (unless having a student instructor is a violation of the policy)

As for waivers, they are worth nothing. You cannot freely waive your right to sue in case of negligence or accident.

"Gee my students signed a waiver saying they cannot sue me for negligence. Let's hang some swords from the ceiling from a thin rope, cause it will look cool and see if they fall."

[Judge Pen]

Generally, waivers can only be for simple negligence. Let's say another student doing a kicking drill accidently kicks the guy behind him, then the waiver may indemnify the school for that occurance. Acts of gross negligence, recklessness or intentional acts cannot be waived (at least in Tennessee and I'm pretty sure that most states are similar). So intentionally kicking a guy in the face (if that happened) wouldn't be waived. Same for the example of the sword on a string.

But, as Oso said, people can sue for anything. If someone lands wrong while practicing a form and tears a knee or breaks an ankle, then the waiver is a defense to a lawsuit but doens't stop the lawsuit.

Frank, that waiver is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of. Your sifu is better off without it as that type of contract could actually be used against him in a lawsuit. A simple waiver will protect you as much as you can be protected.

[GreenCloudCLF]

JP,

You really a Judge?

[Judge Pen]

JP,

You really a Judge?

Not yet. Just a lawyer.

[GreenCloudCLF]

Not yet. Just a lawyer.
Planning ahead?;)

[Judge Pen]

Planning ahead?;)


I'm keeping my options open! :p

[joedoe]

JP would know better than me, but my understanding of the law in most western countries is that a waiver is basically no protection - if you are negligent in your dealings with a student, then you are liable and they can bring a suit against you (most likely successfully too). If you can show that you mitigated the negligence in some way, or the accident was a result of the student behaving in a manner contrary to your instruction and policy, then you have a better defence.

Sound about right JP?

[Judge Pen]

JP would know better than me, but my understanding of the law in most western countries is that a waiver is basically no protection - if you are negligent in your dealings with a student, then you are liable and they can bring a suit against you (most likely successfully too). If you can show that you mitigated the negligence in some way, or the accident was a result of the student behaving in a manner contrary to your instruction and policy, then you have a better defence.

Sound about right JP?
It depends. Waivers or exculpatory clauses can offer limited protection, but it's based on the common law doctrine of assumption of risk. If one has a full understanding of a risk that is inherent to an activity and willingly participates in that activity then they cannot successfully sue someone because of an injury that they knew was a possibility before undertaking the action. The waiver is just written evidence of their prior knowledge. However, it was considered to be against the greater public interest to allow one to waive actions that go beyond what one could reasonably expect to happen. That's why boxers can be prosecuted for biting an ear but not for concussing an opponent(i.e. a knockout). A bloody nose is an inherent risk to sparring, but a broken jaw may go a bit too far, etc. It all depends on the activity and the participants prior knowledge and understanding of the activity prior to participate with some policy considerations (you can't submit to a duel for the death, for example and then defend the prosecution of murder on assumption of risk or waiver).

That's why, simply, the rule is you can waive simple negligence (duty of care and an accidental breach of that duty that proximately causes damage) but any level above that (gross negligence, recklessness or an intentional act) cannot be waived.


What I think you are talking about Joe, is that one always has a duty to act with reasonable care themselves. Thus, if I'm negligent in hitting too hard, but the student is sparring recklessly and making my extra-contact more likely, then my negligence should be compared to his in determining who is at fault for any resulting injuries.

[Oso]

I've had a young hispanic man come in to start class.

It was kinda wierd at first because his mom called me about classes so I thought she was talking about a teenager...he's actually 19. But, in the conversatoin she asked "Do you accept hispanic students". I was actaully taken aback a little and was like ''uh, yes" thinking 'why wouldn't I?'

she clarified by saying that he didn't speak any english at all and understood very little. I told her that sadly, I don't speak spanish but that we were a small school and I'd be happy to work with him as long as he felt he was getting something out of it.

so, fine, crossed that bridge he and his mom come in last thursday to watch class and I talk with his mom and as much as I can with him. I have a student who does speak spanish and so he was able to get a student's POV on the classes and such.

So, he was going to come in last night to start...his mom drops him off and my spanish speaking student wasn't there and before he could start class I had to get him to sign the waiver, the intro class agreement and the student info sheet.

So...ended up getting his mom on the phone and explained things to her and she was fine with it and understood that I had to have the waiver and that I couldn't have him sign it if he didn't understand it. So, unfortunately, he had to just sit and watch another class till his mom comes in thursday to explain all the paperwork.

whew....all that while I've got other student on the floor flailing their way throught the tan tui's

A - I'm behind the times, bi-linguily
B - I need a front of the house person
C - I need an office instead of 25 s.f. of space at the front of the school.

[Judge Pen]

I think you should invest in Spanish lessons. I'm guessing that there is a huge market for martial arts classes for people who only speak spanish.